Dublin-Galway cycle route

OssianSmyth

Proposed today by the transport minister is a 200km off-road cycle track linking Galway and Dublin and running partly along the Grand Canal.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0914/1224324009474.html

A couple of years ago when the motorway interurbans were complete, the NRA came up with a "national cycle network", essentially a new project for the NRA to build intercity bike roads rather than car roads. Bikes are not often useful for intercity travel and the routes proposed by the NRA were direct rather than scenic and recreational. It seemed the NRA might have come up with a project more designed meet their need to stay in business rather than the needs of cyclists: commuting and recreation.

Earlier this year the bicycle interurbans idea was shelved due to cost, and instead a collection of local authority mini bike projects was launched:
http://www.smartertravel.ie/content/national-cycle-network

So now Varadkar has come back to the idea of making one intercity route. Earlier this year there was an announcement of 600K for a short section of Grand Canal upgrade and that this would be extended to the Liffey and Maynooth later. The Canal is scenic and worth doing but how about the Galway end? Could any of you imagine the route that might be taken?

galwaycyclist

OssianSmyth wrote: »

So now Varadkar has come back to the idea of making one intercity route. Earlier this year there was an announcement of 600K for a short section of Grand Canal upgrade and that this would be extended to the Liffey and Maynooth later. The Canal is scenic and worth doing but how about the Galway end? Could any of you imagine the route that might be taken?

Yes but it would not involve this

Provision of 20km of dedicated cycle lanes along the former N6 from Athlone to Ballinasloe

eg lets repaint the hard shoulders and call it a "cycle network"

OssianSmyth

Oh, OK. A white line along the N6 would be rubbish and as it's too far to commute and too noisy and unpleasant for recreation it would have little utility.

galwaycyclist

OssianSmyth wrote: »

Oh, OK. A white line along the N6 would be rubbish and as it's too far to commute and too noisy and unpleasant for recreation it would have little utility.

Agreed unfortunately this is apparently what our Minister does think and he is allocating funds for "recreational cycle routes" incorporated directly into existing and former N roads eg N59, N86 etc etc. This is instead of adapting parallel minor roads and abandoned railway alignments.

manwithaplan

I would take the route of the Race Around Ireland.

smacl

galwaycyclist wrote: »

This is instead of adapting parallel minor roads and abandoned railway alignments.

Sad but very true to a large extent. I understand that conversion of the old Wexford Rosslare line is going ahead though. Makes lots of sense given that the land is already in public ownership, and surfacing for bike usage would not be a major expense. Hopefully they can manage with Yield! signs rather than gates this time though. I for one would also love to see the canal tow paths turned into reasonable cycle routes, and would see routes such as this as a major tourist attraction.

monument

Where to west of the end of the Royal Canal?

The disused Mullingar to Athlone railway could bring it a bit closer?

70km+ along side the motorway?

Or along the active railway line?

A bit of both?

Whatever about the NTA hijacking the idea, the National Cycle Policy and other documents seem to suggest that the idea for a National Cycling Network came from Failte Ireland's Strategy for the Development of Irish Cycle Tourism.

OssianSmyth

monument wrote: »

70km+ along side the motorway?

Or along the active railway line?

Neither sound attractive from a recreational cycling point of view.

monument wrote:

Whatever about the NTA hijacking the idea, the National Cycle Policy and other documents seem to suggest that the idea for a National Cycling Network came from Failte Ireland's Strategy for the Development of Irish Cycle Tourism.

This map shows the comparison between the Bord Fáilte route network and the proposed NRA National Cycle Network. You can see that the Bord Failte route follows scenic enjoyable low vehicle traffic routes while the NRA is designed for a non-existent need (people who choose to cycle from Dublin to Cork)


Buses and trains should carry bikes at less cost and with less fuss. Automated bike rental should be available at major city railway stations.

Wompa1

http://www.galwaynews.ie/27780-galway-dublin-cycle-route-boost-local-economy

Maynooth in Dublin?? So will it end in Maynooth or will it go all the way to Dublin. I'm confused! It say's first leg but doesn't mention either way

swiftman

''at a cost of around 30 million euro.''

ffs they have planed a huge budget but they pull €30million out of there back pocket. how many people will cycle this, they wont end up spending 30m in towns. gobus and citylink €10 to dublin.
they be better of giving €8m to the volvo and to enter a boat, look how much that brought into the country last 2times

McTigs

swiftman wrote: »

''at a cost of around 30 million euro.''

ffs they have planed a huge budget but they pull €30million out of there back pocket. how many people will cycle this, they wont end up spending 30m in towns. gobus and citylink €10 to dublin.
they be better of giving €8m to the volvo and to enter a boat, look how much that brought into the country last 2times

not exactly a man of vision now are you?

the mayo greenway has been cycled by thousands more than was anticipated and brought tourism revenue to towns and villages along the route that were largely passed over before. They reckon it's more than paid for itself already and it's only open a couple of years.

i just hope they plan an interesting route along canals and old railways and not just paint a red line on the hard shoulder of the motorway.

FlashD

swiftman wrote: »

''at a cost of around 30 million euro.''

ffs they have planed a huge budget but they pull €30million out of there back pocket. how many people will cycle this, they wont end up spending 30m in towns. gobus and citylink €10 to dublin.
they be better of giving €8m to the volvo and to enter a boat, look how much that brought into the country last 2times

This is the kind of short term thinking that has landed the country with its current problems. You probably called the first investment in the Volvo Ocean Race a waste of money too.

Lets build more houses :pac:

Iwannahurl

The success of the Greenway in Mayo shows what can be achieved in terms of cycle tourism. Failte Ireland analyses, back in 2006 I think, showed that cycle tourism was worth tens of millions annually, even though numbers of cycle tourists had dropped over the years.

Not sure what it will achieve in terms of commuter cycling though, which Leo Varadkar mentioned also when announcing the proposal, IIRC.

Here's some scepticism in the Irish Times today:

Sir, – Your report, “Dublin to Galway Cycle link proposal” (Home News, September 14th), is a perfect example of how we lack the necessary leadership to dig us out of our current difficulties.

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar correctly (if belatedly) recognises that Ireland lacks the cycling infrastructure that is the norm elsewhere, and also seems to be coming slowly around to the realisation that there are substantial foreign currency earnings to be made if we can enter the cycle-tourism market.

The Royal and Grand canals are in public ownership, and Waterways Ireland favours the development of cycleways on their banks. There are existing towpaths along the waterways, they just need upgrading to allow for cycling and walking – a scrape of a digger and simple rolled grit overlay is all that is required in most cases – hardly rocket science.

So what does the Minister do? He “instructs the NRA to start planning for the project”. Translation: he instructs the NRA to commission another report.

Wouldn’t it be great to see the Minister in charge of tourism actually saying “I have instructed the NRA and the Department of Transport to immediately establish a national network of off-road trails on canal banks, disused railways and river navigations, linked by minor roads and permissive access on private lands where appropriate. I want this network established within 12 months, so that we can start making serious money from these disused assets, as well as providing safe and enjoyable holidays and commuter routes for our cyclists at home”.

Instead, we get the usual “can kicking” – paralysis by analysis. Plus ça change. – Yours, etc,

monument

OssianSmyth wrote: »

Neither sound attractive from a recreational cycling point of view.

Routes beside railways can be fairly to very good, remember there's fairly limited services on the Galway line, it's not like you'd getting trains flying past every 10mins or so:

http://www.cyclestreets.net/location/39156/
http://www.cyclestreets.net/location/37910/
http://www.cyclestreets.net/location/32620/
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Pix/pictures/2012/3/29/1333021880446/The-mawddach-trail-cycle--008.jpg

Oh, dear, I also stumbled across shared use with trains!: http://www.cyclestreets.net/location/36413/

Beside motorways or other large roads may be far from ideal, but such solutions can be done as links between canals, rivers, coast line and railway lines, active or disused. And maybe more doable for parts of routes than putting a new cycle route along fields. Here's some examples:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dickobrien/2827985857/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/3879186990/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/5384654978/

OssianSmyth wrote: »

This map shows the comparison between the Bord Fáilte route network and the proposed NRA National Cycle Network. You can see that the Bord Failte route follows scenic enjoyable low vehicle traffic routes while the NRA is designed for a non-existent need (people who choose to cycle from Dublin to Cork)


Buses and trains should carry bikes at less cost and with less fuss. Automated bike rental should be available at major city railway stations.

Was the proposed BF network going to be a lot of signposted back roads with little intervention?

Seaneh

It's a terrible route, and it won't be used at all, rather than making it on an enjoyable scenic route they are just painting a cycle lane on the hard shoulder of the old N roads, it's a farce.

Total waste of money.


The first stage between maynooth and mullingar along the canal will be decent, from then on it will be ****e.

The could, if they were smart, just use the section of unused rail track between mullingar and Athlone (which would be a lovely cycle) but from there on it's just ugly N roads.

OssianSmyth

monument wrote: »

Routes beside railways can be fairly to very good, remember there's fairly limited services on the Galway line, it's not like you'd getting trains flying past every 10mins...

You're right.

Was the proposed BF network going to be a lot of signposted back roads with little intervention?

Mostly.

Here'e the Fáilte Ireland cycle strategy from 5 years ago:
http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/3_Research_Insights/1_Sectoral_SurveysReports/CyclingStrategy2007.pdf?ext=.pdf

Here's the smarter travel national cycling network report from 2010
http://www.smartertravel.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/FINAL%20NCNScopingStudyAugust2010%5B1%5D.pdf

monument

OssianSmyth wrote: »

You're right.

Mostly.

Here'e the Fáilte Ireland cycle strategy from 5 years ago:
http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/3_Research_Insights/1_Sectoral_SurveysReports/CyclingStrategy2007.pdf?ext=.pdf

Here's the smarter travel national cycling network report from 2010
http://www.smartertravel.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/FINAL%20NCNScopingStudyAugust2010%5B1%5D.pdf

Thanks, I had not seen the Failte Ireland strategy.

Not sure about the signed back road approach on rural Irish roads. I'd be more concerned with focusing on spending more money on developing the canals, river sides, disused and active railway lines, parks, forests, woodlands etc.

Will have a better look at the report when I get a chance.

Beasty

Threads merged

Beasty

burren

This is what a long distance cycle network should look like. Way to go Ireland.

silver campaign

A lot of the royal canal in Co. Longford all ready has a mix of grass and paved paths. There is currently planning permission sought by Longford County Council the extend the paths from Longford town to Clondra, (5-6kms) where the canal meets the river shannon.

Why not continue the path from Maynooth, through Mullingar to the Shannon in Longford. (Seen as most of the work is allready being done by the local authority) It could then be brought along the Shannon north to Carrick-on-Shannon or south to Athlone.

Alternatively, a route could run cross country to strokestown, over Sliabh Ban, Roscommon and onto Galway. A more interesting route than the N6, but probably more hassle, with more land owners to get on board.

Afaik, there are also plans to turn the old railway line from Galway to Clifden into another greenway. A nice route along lough Corrib into Connemara.

monument

silver campaign wrote: »

A lot of the royal canal in Co. Longford all ready has a mix of grass and paved paths. There is currently planning permission sought by Longford County Council the extend the paths from Longford town to Clondra, (5-6kms) where the canal meets the river shannon.

Why not continue the path from Maynooth, through Mullingar to the Shannon in Longford. (Seen as most of the work is allready being done by the local authority) It could then be brought along the Shannon north to Carrick-on-Shannon or south to Athlone.

That's exactly what the minister has said he wants.

Tenzor07

Looks like Leo is talking out his hat!(as usual!)

The problem is not the trail but the manner in which it appears to be planned. The canned quote from Mr Varadkar says it all: "I would love to see this project being completed within the next few years. It has the potential to bring in at least €15m per annum, much of that going straight into local businesses along the route."

The rest of the release makes it clear, however, that the route has not yet been chosen and funding for the overall project has not been allocated. The obvious question is how can Mr Varadkar, or anybody else, know how much money will be generated from a project that is still at the earliest stages and may well not even happen?

The press release adds that "the most recent figures available on cycle tourism show that 173,000 visitors to Ireland in 2011 engaged in cycling during their stay, spending an estimated €200m" but we are none the wiser. How many of these visitors rented bikes from the excellent Dublin Bike scheme. How many rented bikes for an hour at the Phoenix Park? What we need to know is how many people came to Ireland for a cycling holiday and what research is there to show that many more people want to come here.

The €15m figure has been plucked from the air and the release makes no attempt to justify the figure or explain it..

LINK

silver campaign

monument wrote: »

That's exactly what the minister has said he wants.

If so, then great. It was my understanding that the plan was to go along the canal to Mullingar, then down to Athlone, completing bypassing the mostly complete canal paths in Longford.

galwaycyclist

silver campaign wrote: »

If so, then great. It was my understanding that the plan was to go along the canal to Mullingar, then down to Athlone, completing bypassing the mostly complete canal paths in Longford.

The problem with following the canal all the way to the Shannon is that there is no bridge to connect with the Ballinasloe branch of the Canal. So there is a challenge to address there.

Edit: sorry answered wrong question - I was referring to the Grand Canal which i think of as the more "natural" route to Galway

monument

silver campaign wrote: »

monument wrote: »

That's exactly what the minister has said he wants.

If so, then great. It was my understanding that the plan was to go along the canal to Mullingar, then down to Athlone, completing bypassing the mostly complete canal paths in Longford.

Sorry. I may have misread your post -- the minister indicated he wanted the Royal Canal used, but he was not too firm on details. The route to Galway may be better to split off before the Shannon -- what exactly is to happen is up in the air.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Edit: sorry answered wrong question - I was referring to the Grand Canal which i think of as the more "natural" route to Galway

Would agree that it's the more natural route but from looking at both canals, the Royal seem far more populated along the way.

Dublin 15 and the minister's appartment is also on the Royal.

bambergbike

monument wrote: »

Not sure about the signed back road approach on rural Irish roads. I'd be more concerned with focusing on spending more money on developing the canals, river sides, disused and active railway lines, parks, forests, woodlands etc.

I don't think it's either/or. I think we should spend relatively small amounts of money on creating a very extensive cycling network that uses rural roads and using residential streets in urban areas. This would involve putting up signs for cyclists, but also signs to let other road users know that they are on a cycle route and/or signs warning them to expect cyclists crossing in particular places. It would also involve reviewing, changing and enforcing speed limits on those routes, and in some cases some kind of physical traffic calming or restriction of access to the routes would be very helpful (i.e. vehicle access only for forestry vehicles, farm vehicles, local residents, Bord na Mona etc.) The routes this would yield would not be entirely suitable for very inexperienced child cyclists or very unfit adult cyclists, but they would still come out of any cost-benefit analysis very favourably.

AND, in parallel to this huge extension of medium-quality access implemented on the cheap, we should lavish much larger sums of money on a tiny handful of five-star, premier routes that will appeal to cycle tourists who want to cycle along in pairs, side-by-side, without having to worry about traffic, or hills, or where their next meals are coming from, or how they will entertain themselves and/or their children en route. If these routes are genuinely attractive (both the actual routes and the landscapes and attractions they link) and if they are packaged and marketed well, they should be self-funding. Premier routes would have picnic tables, rain shelters, regularly emptied bins, playgrounds, good tourist information, bed and bike hotels, and lots of other luxuries, such as bicycle ferries across the Shannon. (Ferries are a fantastic way to add value to a cycle route.)

The potential five-star route that could instantly become a runaway international success would run from the Shannon pot to the Shannon estuary, on both sides of the river and with various ferry connections linking the parallel routes. The Shannon has a natural mystique that no Dublin-Galway route will ever have, however lovingly planned and built. The river has a story of its own and would be very easy to market. Cyclists like the idea of cycling downhill even when the actual gradient is imperceptible. And it might be easier to start developing cycle tourism in areas that already have tourist infrastructure and tourist attractions first, and then develop other routes (like the one from the Shannon to Galway) extending out from that backbone.

But seeing as we seem to have decided to start with Galway-Dublin and are looking for the least worst way of doing that:

Sliabh Ban sounds like an interesting place (thanks for the heads up, silver campaign), but I think five-star routes should probably be flat, or at least that we shouldn't build them on hills before we have done the important flat ones. My own "interesting" route east of Galway would have been a mirror image of the Sliabh Ban one, going over the Slieve Aughty instead. One of the nicest cycles I ever did east of Galway went from Galway to Thoor Ballylee, over the Slieve Aughty (through Derrybrien), and on to Lough Derg before finishing in Moneygall.

Both of those "interesting" variants would appeal to lots of cyclists and should probably be second-class national cycling routes. The first-class route should be somewhere between them - a bit dull for the sake of being flat and easy. Along the Royal Canal from Dublin, then down the Shannon, past Clonmacnoise, on to Clonfert, with its cathedral, and then further along a trajectory parallel to the minor roads well north of the N6 and south of the M6, I suppose. I'm having trouble coming up with a list of fantastic "must-see" places between Clonfert and Galway. Hopefully just because I don't know that part of the country, and not because there aren't any.

QueensGael

Leo's contribution to the bike path debate (not specifically the Galway Dublin one though) in today's IT

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224324121666

bambergbike

I have to say I loved the irony of Leo's mention of (distinct?) "pathways and cycleways" just above Roger Garland's call for exactly that - separate paths for cyclists and walkers.

dennis124wwr

Are they going to be using the athlone mullingar railway line to bulit it.

monument

dennis124wwr wrote: »

Are they going to be using the athlone mullingar railway line to bulit it.

That's part of the plan.

Seaneh

monument wrote: »

That's part of the plan.

Athlone - Mullingar along the rail track and then Mullingar - dublin along the Canal will be a lovely, lovely cycle.

pbowenroe

Did this ever happen?

monument

pbowenroe wrote: »

Did this ever happen?

The Galway-Dublin route in general? It's making progress.

See the table at the end of this article: http://irishcycle.com/2014/06/27/galway-to-dublin-greenway-could-be-finished-in-five-years/

pbowenroe

thanks

Carawaystick

So the greenway from Mullingar to Athlone is to open this July

Westmeath thread here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2057416455