ESB to create new fibre powered ISP

km79

red_bairn wrote: »

No.

Oh excellent. Hopefully be able to finally say goodbye to mobile broadband so. Doing my head in lately !
Gonna have a read back through the thread now so thanks

padraig.od

1Unknown wrote: »

Yes it will be fibre to home, but because there isn't yet a final partner (ex Vdf/Meteor what ever), the final layout connections are not defined yet.

Wow excited!

Cavan though. Why Cavan? It is reasonably well served by the eircom fibre rollout with upgrades to Cavan town, Bailieborough, Kingscourt, Virginia, Ballyjamesduff.

Hope it is a MASSIVE success.

btw what are LV/MV poles? Low/Medium voltage?

johnmcdnl

1Unknown wrote: »

Trials tests will be in Cavan area.
Will sart in December 2013 up to the 1st Qter of 2014
Fibre will run thru LV/MV poles and underground network.

Any idea what area of Cavan?

1Unknown

padraig.od wrote: »

Wow excited!

Cavan though. Why Cavan? It is reasonably well served by the eircom fibre rollout with upgrades to Cavan town, Bailieborough, Kingscourt, Virginia, Ballyjamesduff.

Hope it is a MASSIVE success.

btw what are LV/MV poles? Low/Medium voltage?

Why Cavan....no idea to be honest, and yes Low/Medium voltage poles.

Now this is just a trial...so between a trial/to go on full scale...might be at the end of 2014 that things start to roll out (if everything goes well)...and dont forget...money to invest.

1Unknown

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Any idea what area of Cavan?

I do...but cannot tell you sorry.

It's not city centre

red_bairn

1Unknown wrote: »

I do...but cannot tell you sorry.

It's not city centre

It must be Gowna.

johnmcdnl

1Unknown wrote: »

I do...but cannot tell you sorry.

It's not city centre

Can you tell us when we'll find out so

lucernarian

padraig.od wrote: »

Wow excited!

Cavan though. Why Cavan? It is reasonably well served by the eircom fibre rollout with upgrades to Cavan town, Bailieborough, Kingscourt, Virginia, Ballyjamesduff.

Hope it is a MASSIVE success.

btw what are LV/MV poles? Low/Medium voltage?

Lots of smallish towns with sometimes dense levels of housing in areas between the towns and villages in eastern Cavan, considering they're rural areas. Like between Virginia and BallyJ. Some of those small towns will be waiting another year or so for Eircom also.

I'll be interested in the underground network part, I always thought most ESB connections until 20 years ago were with thick insulated cables directly buried underground. No ducting used at the time so to speak.

Capt'n Midnight

bk wrote: »

Eircom will have eFibre everywhere before this even starts to rollout and even when it does rollout, it will take much longer to rollout then VDSL as doing FTTH is tricky and labour intensive.

Hopefully that doesn't stop the ESB, as they can compete with Eircoms eFibre by offering much faster speeds.

Eircom could be easily be undercut on line rental side.

Cheapest phone only eircom package is €25
the cheapest UPC phone + BB package is near enough to make it a no brainer

Also fibre means the ESB/Vodafone could offer TV too.

ClonNGB

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Eircom could be easily be undercut on line rental side.

Cheapest phone only eircom package is €25
the cheapest UPC phone + BB package is near enough to make it a no brainer

Also fibre means the ESB/Vodafone could offer TV too.

This could very well turn out to be the biggest thing ever for broadband in Ireland, especially the forgotten towns. Fingers and toes crossed that the Cavan trial will go well and we will all have the option sometime in 2014. Amazing to finally be able to abandon the old copper telephone cable and be as competitive as any where else in Europe. Well done to the ESB.:)

TheDoc

Well fingers crossed

I'm in Donabate village where Eircom say the E-fibre rollout is done, so a small sector of Donabate is never being upgraded. UPC say they have no plans to come here. I'm with Magnet on a 24mbps ADSL line, that as of right now is operating at 700kbps on a speedtest, meaning my saturday planed for gaming is in tatters.

Coming from UPC 150mb, and working in the networking arena, I'm absolutely disgusted that in 2013, an area can still have this rubbish an internet service.

yomamasflavour

I wouldn't go holding my breath.
ESB has been talking about this for years and they're still just talking. Even if right now they were installing it would still take them an awfully long time to do any sort of a rollout.

Also Eircom has ducting into houses/estates etc. as is
Esb just has buried power lines, other than digging up every road and driveway they'd have to rent or buy from the likes of Eircom.

AlanS181824

This is exciting, I really hope it goes well for ESB.

lockup35

Not sure if this has been posted already. Some information about the fibre broadband rollout on the ESB website.

http://www.esb.ie/main/innovation/telecoms.jsp

padraig.od

lockup35 wrote: »

Not sure if this has been posted already. Some information about the fibre broadband rollout on the ESB website.

http://www.esb.ie/main/innovation/telecoms.jsp

1/2 million customers.... How many are eircom targetting again? Would they be planning to compete with eircom, upc or are they targetting unfibred areas?

Gonzo

fingers and toes crossed that this will be available to homes and business throughout the country that currently cant get UPC or adsl/fibre speeds beyond 8meg.

ClonNGB

I heard from a chap in ESB they are not targeting the large urban areas like Cork and Dublin so .5 million homes is very significant. He also said they are experimenting with ways of pushing the fibre through the conduits going to the stand alone houses (typically the red tube pipes buried in the ground and coming out at the ESB meter.

Capt'n Midnight

ClonNGB wrote: »

He also said they are experimenting with ways of pushing the fibre through the conduits going to the stand alone houses (typically the red tube pipes buried in the ground and coming out at the ESB meter.

reminded me of this http://www.google.ie/tisp/install.html

bk

padraig.od wrote: »

1/2 million customers.... How many are eircom targetting again? Would they be planning to compete with eircom, upc or are they targetting unfibred areas?

I believe the plan is to target urban and semi-urban areas not currently serviced by UPC.

These areas likely are already or will soon be covered by Eircoms eFibre.

This makes a lot of sense, no point in the ESB going head to head against UPC when they both would be offering about the same speeds.

Better for the ESB to focus on non UPC areas and become the second, much faster competitor to Eircom eFibre in these areas, much in the same way UPC is in the other areas.

This is fantastic news, it will mean we have two strong independent broadband networks to all urban homes (either UPC+Eirom or ESB+Eircom) offering speeds of between 50mb to 200mb/s

It will mean the broadband problem will be finally completely fixed in urban areas. More then that, it will mean urban areas in Ireland will have some of the fastest speeds in Europe, much better then even the UK and much of France/Germany and up there with the best of the Scandanivian countries!!

Unfortunately this won't help the 500,000 or so rural homes.

However I'm also feeling more confident about broadband in rural Ireland too. I'm hopeful that in the medium term, once the ESB has completed their initial rollout in urban areas, having gained experience in the technology and installs, that they will then turn their attention to bringing fibre to rural Ireland.

Strawberry HillBilly

Why would they not go straight to rural and hold the 0.5m homes to exclusion of the rest ?

Once that's underway target the bigger population areas

Mr. G

Am I reading this right?

Alongside our JV partner, we will roll out 100% fibre network that will connect directly into half a million homes, offering speeds in excess of 150Mb/s. These upload and download speeds are guaranteed because it is an end-to-end fibre network. This service will be available in 2014 through local broadband providers.

ted1

yomamasflavour wrote: »

I wouldn't go holding my breath.
ESB has been talking about this for years and they're still just talking. Even if right now they were installing it would still take them an awfully long time to do any sort of a rollout.

Also Eircom has ducting into houses/estates etc. as is
Esb just has buried power lines, other than digging up every road and driveway they'd have to rent or buy from the likes of Eircom.

Using broadband over power lines there would be no need for separate cables

Sully

padraig.od wrote: »

Fibre to the home?

Cannot wait! 2015 is too far away though.

red_bairn

But surely this is a 150 symmetric connection if FTTB. So wouldn't that put them at the top?

bk

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

Why would they not go straight to rural and hold the 0.5m homes to exclusion of the rest ?

Once that's underway target the bigger population areas

Nope, it just doesn't make any financial or commercial sense.

It costs much less to roll out fibre to densely populated urban and semi-urban areas then it is to rural areas.

Just think of all the one off rural houses and it is clear why.

It will likely require some government subsidies and maybe people in rural areas paying extra in order to get fibre to the home.

Mr. G wrote: »

Am I reading this right?

Yes

ted1 wrote: »

Using broadband over power lines there would be no need for separate cables

Broadband over powerlines is a failed technology (outside of homeplugs). It turned out to create a great deal of radio interference and hasn't been deployed anywhere in the world.

Instead the ESB can and will wrap fibre cables around the powerlines and use ducts to get into homes.

red_bairn wrote: »

But surely this is a 150 symmetric connection if FTTB. So wouldn't that put them at the top?

Not necessarily, FTTH comes in many different types, the type that is most likely to be used is GPON, if GPON is used then it is 2.488 Gb/s down, 1.244 Gbp/s up, shared amongst 32 homes.

UPC's HFC network has similar bandwidth.

Obviously it would be better then Eircoms VDSL2+ speeds

funnyname

bk wrote: »

Not necessarily, FTTH comes in many different types, the type that is most likely to be used is GPON, if GPON is used then it is 2.488 Gb/s down, 1.244 Gbp/s up, shared amongst 32 homes.

UPC's HFC network has similar bandwidth.

Obviously it would be better then Eircoms VDSL2+ speeds

If I am reading this right

If GPON is used then it will give a max of ~80Mb/s down and ~40Mb/s up, per house if shared between 32 houses not much room for upgrade?

AlanS181824

Can't wait for this. Currently have Sky waiting for their fibre.

ClonNGB

Heard Vodafone won the contract to be ESBs partner on this

smee again

funnyname wrote: »

If I am reading this right

If GPON is used then it will give a max of ~80Mb/s down and ~40Mb/s up, per house if shared between 32 houses not much room for upgrade?

All residential broadband is contended.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contention_ratio

Mr. G

smee again wrote: »

All residential broadband is contended.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contention_ratio

That is not true. Most DSL providers do, but not all is contended. For example, eircom offer NGB that is uncontended.

Mr. G

funnyname wrote: »

If I am reading this right

If GPON is used then it will give a max of ~80Mb/s down and ~40Mb/s up, per house if shared between 32 houses not much room for upgrade?

Not everyone will use the whole entire connection all at once. I'd imagine it would be contended, which would allow for higher speed packages above 80Mbps. If the contention ratio is 32:1, meaning you are sharing lets say a 100Mbps connection with 31 other homes, the maximum you would get would be 100Mbps when nobody is online.

smee again

Mr. G wrote: »

That is not true. Most DSL providers do, but not all is contended. For example, eircom offer NGB that is uncontended.

Its not uncontended its just a marketing term for the new contention management system they use, the marketing term they use is "uncongested". You are still contended by the actual backhaul to the exchange. A 1:1 connection from any provider is very expensive

bk

funnyname wrote: »

If I am reading this right

If GPON is used then it will give a max of ~80Mb/s down and ~40Mb/s up, per house if shared between 32 houses not much room for upgrade?

Uncontended yes, but in reality residential broadband is always contended.

Think about it, your 31 neighbours aren't all going to be using the BB at the same time. Some will be at work/school, out to dinner, doing other things in their home, etc.

So sold speeds of 200mb/s + should be available with this.

Gadgetman496

Think about it, your 31 neighbours aren't all going to be using the BB at the same time. Some will be at work/school, out to dinner, doing other things in their home, etc.

They could all be tor-renting while doing the above

funnyname

bk wrote: »

Uncontended yes, but in reality residential broadband is always contended.

Think about it, your 31 neighbours aren't all going to be using the BB at the same time. Some will be at work/school, out to dinner, doing other things in their home, etc.

So sold speeds of 200mb/s + should be available with this.

If they are going to do it right make sure they future proof it so that with the flick of a switch an upgrade can happen rather than having to change the physical infrastructure.

Take leaf out of the book of these guys in rural England

http://b4rn.org.uk/about-b4rn

B4RN is a community fibre network offering fibre to every home providing 1000 megabit (1 gigabit) futureproof connection for £30 a month. You do not have to buy shares to get a connection, but the more people who invest in this network the faster it will be built with the available funds. - See more at: http://b4rn.org.uk/about-b4rn#sthash.tF40hVUl.dpuf

smee again

funnyname wrote: »

If they are going to do it right make sure they future proof it so that with the flick of a switch an upgrade can happen rather than having to change the physical infrastructure.

Take leaf out of the book of these guys in rural England

http://b4rn.org.uk/about-b4rn

They are not a small community group, they are out to do things on a bigger scale and the end goal is to make money

funnyname

smee again wrote: »

They are not a small community group, they are out to do things on a bigger scale and the end goal is to make money

Ah yes so all the more reason for them to go with an infrastructure that will be cost effective in the long run.

The rate of data flow is exponential so if they get it right at the start then the more profitable they will be in the future.

If I was in the ESB I'd be saying lets set up a system that can deliver a symmetrical 1GB/s capacity to all our clients.

Then that would make them loads of money

smee again

funnyname wrote: »

Ah yes so all the more reason for them to go with an infrastructure that will be cost effective in the long run.

The rate of data flow is exponential so if they get it right at the start then the more profitable they will be in the future.

If I was in the ESB I'd be saying lets set up a system that can deliver a symmetrical 1GB/s capacity to all our clients.

Then that would make them loads of money

Because it's not cost effective, in the USA you see only Google doing Gigabit to the home as it take a serious investment without the return.

bk

funnyname the ideal in terms of upgradability would be Point to Point fibre.

However such a system is much more expensive to deploy then GPON, in particular in rural areas. GPON is more likely to get very good BB to people in rural areas much faster then PtP.

GPON however is upgradable, to 10GPON (4 times faster then GPON), but not at a flick of a switch, it would require physical replacement of ONT's. However fortunately if they design the network correctly, they can run both GPON and 10GPON side by side at the same time and thus only replace the ONT when a subscriber decides to upgrade to faster speeds.

Most companies are using GPON, Eircom, BT, Verizon, etc.

domeld

Mr. G wrote: »

That is not true. Most DSL providers do, but not all is contended. For example, eircom offer NGB that is uncontended.

Mr. G nothing is uncongested. It is always limited by operator backbone. Check problems with Digiweb treate on south east (Waterford etc). South east backbone ring will be upgraded to 10Gbs shortly.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

ClonNGB

Anyone aware of the ESB FTTB trial's progress in Cavan ?

Strawberry HillBilly

Have written to ESB twice looking for an update on their plans....no reply. Looks like their fibre network is bullocks'd.

Anyone in Cavan know anything ?

Nolars

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

Have written to ESB twice looking for an update on their plans....no reply. Looks like their fibre network is bullocks'd.

Anyone in Cavan know anything ?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057108456

Strawberry HillBilly

Nolars wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057108456

Thanks for that...wonder if this will be of any benefit to non UPC/Eircom areas ?

Should ESB be compelled to deliver service to non serviced rural areas on a 1:1 basis when launching to a heavily populated area. I realise they are in this to make money but if left with free reign non serviced rural Ireland falls further and further behind.

Anyone with real life experience of trials ?

Capt'n Midnight

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

Should ESB be compelled to deliver service to non serviced rural areas on a 1:1 basis when launching to a heavily populated area.?

http://www.comreg.ie/consumer_initiatives/universal_service_obligation.590.html

On 29 June 2012, Eircom was re-designated as the Universal Service Provider (USP) for a period of two years (refer to ComReg 12/71, D07/12 for further detail). Eircom’s current term as USP lasts until 30 June 2014.

As USP, Eircom must comply with the following obligations.
Provision of access at a fixed location

The USP must satisfy any reasonable request to provide connections to the public telephone network and access to publicly available telephone services. Also any connection provided by the USP must be capable of:

Local, national and international telephone calls
Facsimile (fax) communications
Data communications at data rates that are sufficient to permit functional internet access (the USP is currently required to adopt 28.8kbps as a reasonable minimum data rate)

If 28.8kbps isn't good enough or Eircom are dragging their heals you could try
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/communications+development/national+broadband+scheme.htm

Following the conclusion of a competitive tendering process, the contract to implement and operate the National Broadband Scheme (NBS) was entered into with "3" (a Hutchison Whampoa company trading as 3) on 23 December 2008.

It's a Wham! poa! company :rolleyes:



So why should the ESB be forced to carry the can, unless they get at least as much guberment funding as the above.

Eircom will probably feel a lot of pain because the government have slashed the OAP line rental subsidy , it's unlikely the government will be handing out the savings to the ESB.

Strawberry HillBilly

As a government owned company the government should instruct the ESB to deliver on the broadband strategy.

Re: compulsion for delivery of 1:1 basis for new non serviced rural:new urban areas, this is the only way that rural Ireland can look forward to anything other than dongles out the window and 10 minute buffer time for a bloody YouTube video.

Private entities have consistently failed to deliver the goods to rural Ireland, why shouldn't an instrument of the state be charged with delivering the infrastructure where others have chosen not to.

shane7218

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

As a government owned company the government should instruct the ESB to deliver on the broadband strategy.

Re: compulsion for delivery of 1:1 basis for new non serviced rural:new urban areas, this is the only way that rural Ireland can look forward to anything other than dongles out the window and 10 minute buffer time for a bloody YouTube video.

Private entities have consistently failed to deliver the goods to rural Ireland, why shouldn't an instrument of the state be charged with delivering the infrastructure where others have chosen not to.

The government need to get us people living in rural Ireland out of this internet black hole. Satellite cant even be described as broadband from my experience

Frank Garrett

shane7218 wrote: »

The government need to get us people living in rural Ireland out of this internet black hole. Satellite cant even be described as broadband from my experience

That's because it's not broadband, not by definition, but everyone just refers to any internet access that is much faster than dial-up as "broadband" as a general term.

shane7218

Frank Garrett wrote: »

That's because it's not broadband, not by definition, but everyone just refers to any internet access that is much faster than dial-up as "broadband" as a general term.

The thing is .... it isnt much faster. I pay over 100 a month for an up to 20 mb/s satellite service and normally get around 0.5 to 1.5 and 1.5 would be a good speed its a disgrace the broadband infrastructure in this country