What is middle class in Ireland

dbrunson

If your TV is smaller than your book shelf your middle class, if your TV is bigger than your book shelf your working class.

tdv123

dbrunson wrote: »

If your TV is smaller than your book shelf your middle class, if your TV is bigger than your book shelf your working class.

My TV is so big it can't be measured in book shelf's. It's actually pretty overwhelming having such a big tv, the people on it feel like there really in my living room. I don't think I want the technology of television to go any further.

Agricola

My father's friend had a university degree but after being made redundant in his mid 30's with young kids, took a job in a factory. He stayed there for 30 years, doing 12 hour shifts, nights, bank holidays etc etc because the money was pretty decent. He read the Times, liked the theatre, knew tax affairs inside out (routinely did friends tax returns) and I remember him helping me with algebra when I was 15/16. Genuis at figures. Guy was middle class in every way except the job and status it brings I suppose.

Generally speaking I think you have to categorize it by wealth though, people like him are the exception to the rule.

shopaholic01

annascott wrote: »

Don't confuse wealth with class...

I don't remember anyone defing themselves as working or middle class until the Celtic tiger years. Suddenly people were casually referring to themselves as middle class in conversations, and laughing at those they considered working class.

So middle class could probably be defined as being accustomed to a reasonable standard of living, without feeling the need to advertise it.

Stinicker

The poor don't owe a penny whilst the rich all live in debt. Class is more about attitude and behavior than wealth. I know people who have money and they are absolute scumbags and also know people with very little and I'd trust my life to them.

humbert

shopaholic01 wrote: »

I don't remember anyone defing themselves as working or middle class until the Celtic tiger years. Suddenly people were casually referring to themselves as middle class in conversations, and laughing at those they considered working class.

So middle class could probably be defined as being accustomed to a reasonable standard of living, without feeling the need to advertise it.

Well, I would hazard a guess that even during the Celtic Tiger those people weren't middle class despite what they might have believed themselves.

Edit: Actually I think that's what you were saying...

shopaholic01

humbert wrote: »

Well, I would hazard a guess that even during the Celtic Tiger those people weren't middle class despite what they might have believed themselves.

That was my point!

Miss Lockhart

I don't think Ireland has such a defined class system as our nearest neighbours.

I honestly don't know what middle class is or where I fit in. I'm from the so called underclass but I'm probably working class.

Greentopia

Chop Chop wrote: »

What planet are you living on? There are plenty of upper class in this country. The likes of JP Mc Manus, real billionaires not Sean Quinn the paper billionaire. There is an elite upper class in this country, it's made up of very shrewd business men.

They are an elite business or Capitalist class, not upper class. JP McManus, Dermot Desmond and others of their ilk usually come from lower middle class or middle class backgrounds. They don't suddenly become upper class because they have lots of money.

The only real upper class in this country are the Protestant (mainly) Anglo-Irish landed class.

Class is not about money, it's about breeding and education.

macsauce

Mahogany wrote: »

So cut child benefit and make families struggle to put food on the table while middle income families think they have it bad because they can't afford the second car. Aw, thats so sad

Yeah, let's further penalise those who are net contributors to the state. It is, after all, this group of people who are keeping the economy going.

dd972

A pig ignorant tosser in a golf jumper who bought his house in 1973 and sold it in 2004.

or maybe a jumped up Call Centre Supervisor or HR Manager with a contrived double barrelled name

Miss Lockhart

Greentopia wrote: »

They are an elite business or Capitalist class, not upper class. JP McManus, Dermot Desmond and others of their ilk usually come from lower middle class or middle class backgrounds. They don't suddenly become upper class because they have lots of money.

The only real upper class in this country are the Protestant (mainly) Anglo-Irish landed landed class.

Class is not about money, it's about breeding and education.

Scratch my previous post so. I remain the underclass.

dd972

Greentopia wrote: »

Class is not about money, it's about breeding and education.

Tony Benn : 'Class is purely and simply about money'

Madam_X

How do you define underclass?

Miss Lockhart

Madam_X wrote: »

How do you define underclass?

Well AH usually define it as dole scrounging, tracksuit wearers.

delw

dbrunson wrote: »

If your TV is smaller than your book shelf your middle class, if your TV is bigger than your book shelf your working class.

I don't have a book shelf

melekalikimaka

i think everyone knows themselves what class they are, and those around them but defining it isnt as easy

Madam_X

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Well AH usually define it as dole scrounging, tracksuit wearers.

Does that describe you?

anncoates

The ones with their balls in an ever- tightening vice.

sock puppet

dbrunson wrote: »

If your TV is smaller than your book shelf your middle class, if your TV is bigger than your book shelf your working class.

I use an e-reader :cool:

Miss Lockhart

Madam_X wrote: »

Does that describe you?

It describes my family. Not me, but since apparently it's all about breeding...

retroactive

retroactive wrote: »

Someone once defined "working class" as having a television bigger than your bookcase. Would the converse be true? Working class is having a bookcase bigger than your television?

Many working, middle class and upper class families are saddled with a heavy amount of post property bubble debt. This has blurred the lines between the classes - no longer will having a large home and an up to date car be considered "doing well". I always defined class on more than wealth, what profession are you in - Construction, Gardai, Judge? What holidays do you go on - boozing in Benidorm or Skiing near the Alps? What books are you reading - Jordan's bio, Dalia Smith's book or Dostoevsky. Class is more than mere wealth, it's in the newspapers we read, the jobs we do and the interests we have.

Exactly. My Spanish teacher here pretty much called me a retard when I told her I wasn't sure what class my family are. She said 'you're 27 and you don't know what class you are?' I explained that it's complicated.

All 4 grandparents were working class. My parents both grew up on council estates. Most of my aunts and uncles are working class or on the dole. My parents are a bit of a mixture, as they both went to university (the only ones in their family who did) and have good jobs. They have a mixture of working class and middle class values. We grew up on tinned spaghetti and sausages, were always in second hand clothes and were stuck in front of the TV for hours on end (more working class), but were also taught French and music from a young age, taught to read music and could read and write well before we started school (more middle class). Our usual holidays were over to Ireland on the ferry to stay in my granny's council house, but as we got older, there were also Christmas trips to New York and city breaks to Prague, Paris, Madrid, etc. We went to state primary schools but a private secondary school (we didn't have to pay fees, long story). Really a mixed bag.

I think a lot of people, especially Spanish people think class is as simple as 'how much money do your parents have?' but it's not that at all, at least not in the UK and Ireland. It's education, the way you speak, the way you dress, the books you read. It's not really about money. When someone asks what class I am, I really don't know what to say. Middle class, I guess, but it feels a bit fraudulent to say it given my family background. There's no 'old money' or inheritances or properties or any of those things I'd associate with being truly middle class.

Ruudi_Mentari

Merely owning a house according to my jobstownian friend, so... he has been saving for many years and is about to enter the realm of the middle class?!! Just like that.

and I'll grant him that, but the problem is he views me as mid class for being reared in an eventually paid-off house that backs onto a real dive, so the lines are blurred!!

Greentopia

dd972 wrote: »

Tony Benn : 'Class is purely and simply about money'

If Benn is talking about class struggle-as he's a Socialist-then of course money is intrinsic to whether you own the means of production as a capitalist or whether you have to sell your labour power as a worker.

It is often but not always correlated to money but what he says is too simplistic if he's talking about social strata.

For example I have little money as I'm a self-employed craft worker mainly and I rent my apartment. So I'm working class? but my parents and their relatives were/are: farmers, shop keepers, photographers, all private home owners and I have a college education. So I'm middle class?
But my maternal grandmother and all her family were Protestant Anglo-Irish so I'm upper class?
Class distinction in this country is nonsensical really. Most of us are no more than a few generations from picking spuds in the field as my father used to say :pac:

Greentopia

delw wrote: »

I don't have a book shelf

I don't have a TV :pac:

shopaholic01

Greentopia wrote: »

Most of us are no more than a few generations from picking spuds in the field as my father used to say :pac:

Class :pac:! No pun intended.

anncoates

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

Merely owning a house according to my jobstownian friend, so... he has been saving for many years and is about to enter the realm of the middle class?!! Just like that.

and I'll grant him that, but the problem is he views me as mid class for being reared in an eventually paid-off house that backs onto a real dive, so the lines are blurred!!

Does he know you call him 'jobstownian'?

Katgurl

Owen_S wrote: »

Being middle class in Ireland is having decking outside your house. Lots of Celtic Tiger decking.

It most certainly is not. That is being a sheep and a pretty naff one at that.

Greentopia

Katgurl wrote: »

It most certainly is not. That is being a sheep and a pretty naff one at that.

I can almost hear the disdain dripping from that post in your effort to set yourself apart from the vulgar nouveau-riche middle classes with their Celtic Tiger era decking. :pac: