Irish Daily Star to shut?

JTMan

Does anyone have any *confirmed news* if there will be an edition of The Irish Daily Star tomorrow?

I have heard that Independent Star LTD might publish tomorrow in defiance of N&S.

billybudd

They where in a private estate, if it takes the star going out of business to make an example of newspapers then so be it, they knew what they where doing was wrong and now deserve to be put out of business.

Regardless of who you are, one still has a right to privacy at home.

billybudd

Roisy7 wrote: »

Sorry, as a journalist, I have to say, you do not know what you're talking about.

I've just graduated and I'm already considering leaving Ireland. ONE person in my class of 16 has a permanent job. She is an excellent journalist, but the other 15 of us are hardly knuckledraggers.

To answer your points.

It is different to other industries. The recession hit journalism hard as the newspaper model was not just based on selling newspapers, but selling advertising. Advertisers find they have less money to spend, so newspapers find it hard to sell ads. Less people are buying newspapers, which makes advertisers doubly reluctant to take out an ad in a newspaper.

Other opportunities for journalists? Let's see, TV. We have four television stations in Ireland, one of which requires fluent Irish, two of which are a closed shop currently rocked by the biggest editorial scandal in its history, and the other is operated on a shoestring and can't afford to hire staff. Radio: there is a huge difference between broadcasting and writing, some people are simply not wired that way, and jobs are hard to come by in this sector. Writing online, which is what I do, is largely unpaid. There's always McDonalds.

Freelancing is not an option if you want to eat. I recently did a short article for a UK newspaper which paid me 30 pounds or 37 euro. So if I wanted to make a decent weekly income I would have to do at least 6 articles for various publications a week, allowing for the fact that a. I would be able to find 6 sufficient stories and b. the newspaper wanted to accept my pitch. Given that most newspapers pay monthly that would still require me to go hungry. Freelancing is to supplement your existing income.

Everyone, including myself, gets their news from the internet. Boards, Twitter, The Journal, etc etc are the first places my generation goes for news. Take for example the Guardian. It has suffered a MASSIVE decline in print readership simply because its website is so good, and people go, "well, I read that online this morning, why would I buy the print version and read it all again?" It is just like how no-one buys CDs anymore when they can get it online for free.

I think Oldmangrub means that, although the Star was suffering losses, it is still more profitable than other newspapers on the market.

The better people do not necessarily get the jobs. Life is not that simple. Do you think that there isn't someone in college now who is talented and won't ever get the chance? The fact that, say, John Waters gets book deal after book deal for stuff that would disgrace an undergraduate philosophy class, or Kevin Myers gets paid for trolling, is testament to the cream not always rising to the top.

As for this:


You are not in the real world. I went into journalism because I love to write. I'm terribly sorry that not all career paths serve an economic interest.

Anyway, I feel that it would a pity for the Star to close. Just as I felt it was a pity when the Tribune had to close. It is always a sad day when Irish jobs are lost.

Good luck with that philosophy.

Buy some wooly jumpers, gets cold when you cant pay for heating.

LoonyLovegood

If the Star closes I'll miss it, mainly for the sports and the fantastic job it does with underage soccer in this country. It's where my brother's team finds out who they're playing every week, and where my sister finds out what teams she'll be refereeing.

While the publishing of these photos may have been in bad taste, I can't say that the many journalists in the paper deserve to lose their jobs. However, the print media sector is evolving and becoming more and more online based, but many papers are unwilling to change their operating practices.

blue4ever

Whats simply laughable is the double standards shown in some quarters. The Sun published a picture of Prince Harry last week in his 'Jays fluid' and no-one really gave a sh1t.

They staunchly defended their right to publish. So how is this episode all that different different?? Is there one tabloid rule for the males in line to the throne and another for the females?

And the "media bitches" are out in force. RTE are running a story currently: Duchess of Cambridge may sue Irish Daily Star publishers over topless pictures" They are loving this since and its a bit of payback as the Star absolutely tore into them lately over their handling of the Prime time stuff.

However the BBC report that "there were no immediate plans to pursue action against the Italian magazine or the Irish Newspaper that have also circulated the pictures"

Unbelievable the baying for blood in this.

I think The Star made a bad call and compounded it by the rather arrogant remarks and stance of their editor on Saturday on BBC radio. Personally I think he didn't quiet get the 'mood of the people' (or his shareholders for that matter - which might yet be his biggest crime) and came across like he 'got one over' on the royals.

It's not phone hacking or even close to it. I'm not stepping on the 'morality' incendiary as morality lines can be is subjective and different for each person. They were careful to reproduce the pages of the magazine - not the actual snaps - that gets them away for the privacy side of this. They reproduced a page in a magazine - freely available in another country.

The paper shouldn't fold - that's a ridiculous assertion. Desmond may pull out of the JV - but that wont kill the publication but damage it - yes.

Finally and realistically. All the noise has been across the pond - the Irish readers don't really give a crap.

Roisy7

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Em... hang on - in what world did I ever suggest anything like this?



No it isn't.

The recession hit it hard. It's hit a lot of industries hard.
Gradualtes have to leave to find jobs. Lots of graduates of other industires have to leve to find jobs.

How is the advertising angle relvant?



So the market is over-subscribed and has few openings. A lot of industires have are oversubscribed and have few openings.
A lof of very qualified people work as watiers and so forth in jobs that habe nothing to do with their qualifications. I'm one of them. Why is this any different to journalism?



I know. I do this also. But how is this different from journalism?


A am aware of this.


It may well be. But if it decides to break privacy laws or indulge in morally ambigous behaveiour, why should it be examplte to the rules?


Okay, now here you have a point. Talent is not enough in today's world. But it's going off the point, because it sounds like you're sayign that the inferior journalists are getting the positions and the work. If this is the case, this is an internal problem for the industry, but it also makes my point: a lot of peopel simply don;t want to read good jouralism. Crap situation, I agree.



I'm sorry too, but you are right. Money talks. I'm an artist, I know what you're talkign about. But I still don't have a right to a job as an artist simply because I love to paint.

In your previous post you said that the best people in the industry will get jobs. I was using those two examples to prove that this is not the case. I personally think the people I went to college with are far more talented than those two writers. But it is the same in every industry, I agree. You probably think a couple of well-known artists are unclothed emperors.

The advertising angle is relevant as you were asking why was newspaper readership was declining. This is why.

In your earlier post you basically asked why would people go into an industry that is oversubscribed. That is like me asking why don't you give up the old art, sticking with waiting tables. It has its dark side, but journalists are not vultures or rats or whatever else they have been described as on this thread.
I agree, just because I love to write doesn't mean I'm entitled to a job. I'm unemployed and working on a voluntary basis for a website, as well as doing TEFL to teach abroad. But I don't see why you should turn around and say to a person "don't go into an industry cos there's no jobs". That's a very old fashioned attitude and made a lot of people unhappy in former times.

People read the Star for entertainment and sports. I read the Star as well as the broadsheets. There is more Irish content and it's a good way to pass a coffee break. Any student of journalism will tell you that writing good tabloid copy can be just as demanding as writing broadsheet copy (ie you have to make it snappy, hold a shorter attention span, use fewer words to convey as much info as possible). Whatever about the pictures of Kate, they were already in circulation, and I'm of the opinion that she gave up her expectation to privacy, rightly or wrongly, the second she started dating William. I'm very surprised at her being caught in this compromising position, I took her for a much smoother operator.

The real issue for me is a man who made his money through porn calling for a newspaper in a foreign jurisdiction to close. You have to see the hypocrisy in that. And I feel really strongly that this is a sinister abuse of power. For example, if there was a real scandal in the royal family, a Dominick Strauss Kahn or similar, would a British backed Irish paper find themselves in this position for reporting it?

Censorship, no matter how trivial, is dangerous.

telecaster

blue4ever wrote: »

The paper shouldn't fold - that's a ridiculous assertion.

Rather a fundamental property of paper is it not?

Blazer

The Star is nothing but a rag with scum journos working for it.
I remember one lad doing a marathon for charity 4 years back and they wanted to do an interview with him.
He refused since he was sick of doing them and the journo on the phone basically threatened him and said if he didn't grant one they'd just make the stuff up and he's come out looking bad in it.
He told him to sod off anyway.
Between the Star/Sun both of them are rags.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

billybudd wrote: »

Good luck with that philosophy.

Buy some wooly jumpers, gets cold when you cant pay for heating.

Not my philosophy, the philosophy I was replying to.

I'm all for learning somethign you enjoy but won't make any money of it - I've doen it myself - but not in place of it.

Bishop_Donal

This is just mad.

Kate Middleton takes her jugs out in a zone where she can be photographed & is massively offended because it is splashed over print media. Let's face it, she's nothing to look at, but there are loads of people who always want to see boobs.

Then the Irish Daily Star deliberately decide to publish the photos to cause controversy (INM didn't now anything about it as no-one was listening to RTE radio 1 between 5 and 6pm when the Star announced their intentions subject to legal advice!!), and now they are offended because they presented their English co-owners a reason to close them down!!

Tough luck Kate. Tough luck The Star. Live with the consequences of your own decisions.

Roisy7

billybudd wrote: »

Good luck with that philosophy.

Buy some wooly jumpers, gets cold when you cant pay for heating.

That's why I'm emigrating, thanks for the concern.

billybudd

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

This is just mad.

Kate Middleton takes her jugs out in a zone where she can be photographed & is massively offended because it is splashed over print media. Let's face it, she's nothing to look at, but there are loads of people who always want to see boobs.

Then the Irish Daily Star deliberately decide to publish the photos to cause controversy (INM didn't now anything about it as no-one was listening to RTE radio 1 between 5 and 6pm when the Star announced their intentions subject to legal advice!!), and now they are offended because they presented their English co-owners a reason to close them down!!

Tough luck Kate. Tough luck The Star. Live with the consequences of your own decisions.

It was a private residence.

Would you appreicate someone taking pictures of your family over your wall and into your backgarden?

LordSutch

It so happens that Kates thruepny bits are by Royal appointment only and as such are not intended to be snapped with a 1000 meter telephoto lens while in a private estate. Imagine the uproar if some British tabloid hack had snapped Mary McAleese while topless in the Áras?

I don't think O'Kane's (cocky) attitude has helped the future of the Irish Star either.

billybudd

Roisy7 wrote: »

That's why I'm emigrating, thanks for the concern.

Ok i was a bit harsh,, sorry.

As a matter of curiosity, what are the chances of gaining employment overseas for a graduate of journalism? i imagine its a tough market to crack anywhere in the world.

billybudd

LordSutch wrote: »

It so happens that Kates thruepny bits are by Royal appointment only and as such are not intended to be snapped with a 1000 meter telephoto lens while in a private estate. Imagine the uproar if some British tabloid hack had snapped Mary McAleese while topless in the Áras?

I don't think O'Kane's (cocky) attitude has helped the future of the Irish Star either.

Or the disgust, the visual enough is disgusting.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Roisy7 wrote: »

That's why I'm emigrating, thanks for the concern.

Alison?

Roisy7

billybudd wrote: »

Ok i was a bit harsh,, sorry.

As a matter of curiosity, what are the chances of gaining employment overseas for a graduate of journalism? i imagine its a tough market to crack anywhere in the world.

You're grand

Pretty tough, the UK would probably be the best bet as they do a lot more internships than in Ireland. But they are suffering too. American print media is in a terrible crisis.

Bishop_Donal

billybudd wrote: »

It was a private residence.

Would you appreicate someone taking pictures of your family over your wall and into your backgarden?

Nobody has any interest in my family, so they tend to be able to do what they want!

If any of them ever become famous I'm sure they'll have sufficient IQ to decide whether they need to cover themselves or not (of course depending on whether they really care whether people would look or not).

Roisy7

Aubrey Melted Pidgin wrote: »

Alison?

Huh?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

oldmangrub wrote: »

Icky Poo 2, I do not want the paper to close down. I do not want them to publish pics of topless celebrities. Anyone can find my stance at posts #158, #166, #172, #177, #180. There you'll find things I've actually said, and not things you may think I've said or implied. Read them if you're interested in my stance, if not, don't. Simple.

Never denied it.

Letting the newspaper die won't do anything to get rid of invasions of privacy; all it shows is that you don't f**k with the Royals. Other papers with a tendancy to print topless shots of everyday celebs without permission will still be in existence. I don't want this paper to "die". I think a better and more meaningful alternative would be a change to privacy laws. This would actually change things for the better. Unlike you I do think this is going to happen in the next couple of years.
I wouldn't describe prostitution as a talent.

Again, we can agree to disagree. There are other people posting on this thread. They don't find my posts vague and there's no benefit in repeating myself. Goodbye.

I never questioned you stance on the pictuers. That was clear,

It's the employment angle I tackeled. I showed you exactly where it was vague in a previous post. I assumed you accepted it, because you never commented on it.

I don't think we do disagree, now that I understand what you're talking about - you came across as sayign that providing employment was more important than quality.

(Following comments to other posters, not specific to you)

I've moved my stance from closure to rebranding, as I explained. But if a newspaper is going to try and profit from invading peoples' privacy - anyone's privacy - I do not think it should be aloowed to continue. News of the World took it to an even further extreme - should they have been allowed to continue simply because the provide jobs?

4zn76tysfajdxp

Roisy7 wrote: »

Huh?

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/I-never-thought-Id-leave-Ireland-for-the-American-dream--118159014.html

Roisy7

Aubrey Melted Pidgin wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/I-never-thought-Id-leave-Ireland-for-the-American-dream--118159014.html

Is it me? Nope, haven't left Ireland yet

Chinasea

I think it was uncalled for to publish the pictures and extremely un-neighbourly.

I don't want my private pictures flaunted in a paper regardless of who I am. She was on a holiday with her husband clearly oblivious to the intrusion (NOT HER FAULT) She was not EXPOSING herself.

Shameful that this was printed in an Irish neighbour.

run_Forrest_run

a scum paper with a less than desirable readership, good riddance.

Anyone spending money on such a rag are also partly responsible for such treatment of people in their private lives, royalty or otherwise.

Le_Dieux

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

a scum paper with a less than desirable readership, good riddance.

Anyone spending money on such a rag are also partly responsible for such treatment of people in their private lives, royalty or otherwise.

I can't let this go. I am anti Royalist, more a pacifist, who believes this woman HAS a right to privacy, under the circumstances in which She was photographed. I am also totally against tabloid press in the main.

BUT How dare someone make a statement by claiming (quote) ' scum paper with a less than desirable readership, good riddance'.

Who gave You the authority to state whether a readership is desirable or not? I agree with Your assertion on the state of the paper, but I totally am against Your assumption that the people who read it be judged just because they read the paper.

Just where are we going?

Lord TSC

If you think The Star is a scum paper, what do you think of The Sun :P

fionnsda

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

If you think The Star is a scum paper, what do you think of The Sun :P

its kinda hot!

Spread

Desmond made his pile by flogging porno. After gaining a certain amount of respectability by buying some regional paper in the west country he aspired towards higher things. His move to the SE London with The Express saw him pandering to the Royals to break out the Champagne. So, in a fit of manufactured peek, he seems to have forgotten his Dirty Desmond roots. This guy is an arch Machiavellian purveyor of filth. Back to the sewers with you Richard old boy!

clonmacart

A coupla 3 quick points I'd like to make in relation to the comments on here:

1. Im Half english/Irish & while I don't consider myself a 'Royalist' I can see the economic benefits of the Royals. The arguement here should not be based on wether you support a monrachy though.

2. I've been told by an award winning photojournalist (My brother-in law) that jugging by the scale & picture quality a "Massive" telescopic lense was used. That to my mind is not 'flaunting them in public'

3. Alot of "Brit-this & English-that" but lets face facts..would the star have published pics of a prominent Irish TD or even president's daughter. I very much doubt it. the editors quote of "She's not our queen" was telling.

4. This is not about freedom of the press. If it was then the Star would have been banned from reporting the story. This was the publication of material that was obtained unethically (at the least) & maybe even illegally.

5. There is a massive difference between a woman choosing to appear (for money) in a top-shelf 'gentlemans' magazine and someones naked body being printed against their will

GSF

Spread wrote: »

Desmond made his pile by flogging porno. After gaining a certain amount of respectability by buying some regional paper in the west country he aspired towards higher things. His move to the SE London with The Express saw him pandering to the Royals to break out the Champagne. So, in a fit of manufactured peek, he seems to have forgotten his Dirty Desmond roots. This guy is an arch Machiavellian purveyor of filth. Back to the sewers with you Richard old boy!

This idea that The Express is royalist obviously ignores the daily Diana stories alleging she was killed by the British establishment. Obviously you havent read the Express in a long long time.

jaygile

I find this all very interesting. I can understand how these got printed and honestly I don't see how you could refuse the chance to print them if you were in the editors position? But maybe that's just me?

jaygile

the paparazzi photographer who took these is where the real issue lies i.m.o

Dave!

jaygile wrote: »

I find this all very interesting. I can understand how these got printed and honestly I don't see how you could refuse the chance to print them if you were in the editors position? But maybe that's just me?

I didn't see them in the Irish Times!

donalg1

I dont think shutting the paper down is really the answer, how many people would lose their jobs? Surely there is an editor there somewhere that decided to let these photo's in, they should be the only person to lose their job, obviously they were asked "should these photo's be in the paper" and they said yes so goodbye to them.

Saying she is a celebrity and is therefore fair game is a load of boll**ks, she isnt a celebrity imo. She went to college fell in love and got married thats all she did.

A celebrity is someone who sets out to do something in order to become famous, like a singer or actress, not someone who happens to get married because they are in love. And even at that I do think a celebrity is entitled to some privacy without stuff like that happening to them, but again Kate isnt a celebrity so no way should these photo's have been published, its very bad taste.

leaveitouh

Jellicoe wrote: »

There's bound to be an opening for a decent middle of the road national newspaper in Ireland, that does't have the sleaze of the star and sunday world, and the corrupt cronie lies and propaganda of the 'independent'

It's called the Irish Examiner

mike65

jaygile wrote: »

the paparazzi photographer who took these is where the real issue lies i.m.o

Nope the issue is the public and the press who make being a "pap" a viable way of making a living

YFlyer

leaveitouh wrote: »

It's called the Irish Examiner

Who wants to know what happens in Cork.

Spread

GSF wrote: »

This idea that The Express is royalist obviously ignores the daily Diana stories alleging she was killed by the British establishment. Obviously you havent read the Express in a long long time.

He got some of the first tier of Royals to open his offices. So ......... he kinda owes - if you know what I mean. A bit like the local scrap metal merchant craving respectability by buying the local football team or donating wads to the local boxing club.
As regards reading The Express ............. I'm not old enough yet. I'm also aware that the Brits have pulled out of India ........... even if I do live in the Colonies

GSF

Dave! wrote: »

I didn't see them in the Irish Times!

A higher class of tit writes for the IT.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

GSF wrote: »

A higher class of tit writes for the IT.

No, I believe he's with the independend now?

leaveitouh

YFlyer wrote: »

Who wants to know what happens in Cork.

Why would anyone want to know anything that happens outside Dublin?

It does some good for the Irish journalistic landscape that one daily is based outside of the capital especially given that political debate and current affairs revolve around it.

Roisy7

So I see Shatter wants to change our privacy laws now over this.

Laughable. It's as if they haven't heard of the internet.

Pat Rabbitte talked a lot of sense on this issue and Desmond won't like an Irish politician calling him a hypocrite.

Richard Dower

What will all the poor glamour models do!!!!????

JTMan

Editor has been suspended. http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-daily-star-kate-topless-pics-598855-Sep2012/?utm_source=twitter_self

Fenian Army

Roisy7 wrote: »

So I see Shatter wants to change our privacy laws now over this.

Laughable. It's as if they haven't heard of the internet.

Pat Rabbitte talked a lot of sense on this issue and Desmond won't like an Irish politician calling him a hypocrite.

Shatter belongs to the Bruton school... of course he'd be upset to see his royal treated like this


If it was an ordinary joe, or even an ordinary celeb he wouldnt give a fcuk

Jellicoe

Roisy7 wrote: »

Sorry, as a journalist, I have to say, you do not know what you're talking about.

I've just graduated and I'm already considering leaving Ireland. ONE person in my class of 16 has a permanent job. She is an excellent journalist, but the other 15 of us are hardly knuckledraggers.

To answer your points.

It is different to other industries. The recession hit journalism hard as the newspaper model was not just based on selling newspapers, but selling advertising. Advertisers find they have less money to spend, so newspapers find it hard to sell ads. Less people are buying newspapers, which makes advertisers doubly reluctant to take out an ad in a newspaper.

Other opportunities for journalists? Let's see, TV. We have four television stations in Ireland, one of which requires fluent Irish, two of which are a closed shop currently rocked by the biggest editorial scandal in its history, and the other is operated on a shoestring and can't afford to hire staff. Radio: there is a huge difference between broadcasting and writing, some people are simply not wired that way, and jobs are hard to come by in this sector. Writing online, which is what I do, is largely unpaid. There's always McDonalds.

Freelancing is not an option if you want to eat. I recently did a short article for a UK newspaper which paid me 30 pounds or 37 euro. So if I wanted to make a decent weekly income I would have to do at least 6 articles for various publications a week, allowing for the fact that a. I would be able to find 6 sufficient stories and b. the newspaper wanted to accept my pitch. Given that most newspapers pay monthly that would still require me to go hungry. Freelancing is to supplement your existing income.

Everyone, including myself, gets their news from the internet. Boards, Twitter, The Journal, etc etc are the first places my generation goes for news. Take for example the Guardian. It has suffered a MASSIVE decline in print readership simply because its website is so good, and people go, "well, I read that online this morning, why would I buy the print version and read it all again?" It is just like how no-one buys CDs anymore when they can get it online for free.

I think Oldmangrub means that, although the Star was suffering losses, it is still more profitable than other newspapers on the market.

The better people do not necessarily get the jobs. Life is not that simple. Do you think that there isn't someone in college now who is talented and won't ever get the chance? The fact that, say, John Waters gets book deal after book deal for stuff that would disgrace an undergraduate philosophy class, or Kevin Myers gets paid for trolling, is testament to the cream not always rising to the top.

As for this:


You are not in the real world. I went into journalism because I love to write. I'm terribly sorry that not all career paths serve an economic interest.

Anyway, I feel that it would a pity for the Star to close. Just as I felt it was a pity when the Tribune had to close. It is always a sad day when Irish jobs are lost.

Excellent post.

Do you thing there is a market for a clean, middle of the road paper in Irleand to combat the lies and spin of the Irish 'Independent' ?

A paper that delivers news instead of bullshyte ? Say an Irish version of the UK's 'i' ?

Also, why is there no decent professional investigative journalism ever done in Ireland ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fenian Army wrote: »

Shatter belongs to the Bruton school... of course he'd be upset to see his royal treated like this


If it was an ordinary joe, or even an ordinary celeb he wouldnt give a fcuk

The frist sentence is cheap points-scoring: Shatter is also the Minister for Justice, so it'd be his remit.

Second sentence is probably accurate,though. But when you're talkign heads of states, you probably have to be a bit more forceful than a C-list so-called celeb. That would go for any country's monarch or PM.

WumBuster

Hope the Star dosent have to close over this ridiculous farce, imo its the only decent tabloid that i can actually read. This really would be a victory for the hypocritical PC brigade in Britain who think its acceptable to print stories blaming fans for their own deaths in Hillsboro yet once one of their own beloved royalty is shown with their tits out in a foreign newspaper its all of a sudden its crime of the century. Its not like one of their own rags has never printed anything unflattering about other members of the Royal family. This William and Kate they are not superbeings, give it a few years when there is rumblings of discontent in the marriage, then we'll see how much darlings of the media they are.