Taoiseach wants teachers to work 40 hrs a week

ledgebag1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

You try being a young teacher on half hours or a teacher new to a school on a one year contract looking to get back the following school year & you'll see quite quickly that no one "forces" you.

You'll also see that if you don't contribute to school life in this way that you probably won't get your contract renewed.

The lack of job security for teachers who started after 2004 is scary.

Whats also scary is how little money they are paying graduates from this year onwards.

All the Bull$h1t you've been fed in the media about secure, gold-plated pensions doesmt apply to this cohort of teachers.
I'm in my 6th year teaching, 29 years old & have no job security & am stuck paying rent cause I can't get a mortgage.

Hardly a handy number

As someone who is not a teacher and is as was described previously as a water cooler jockey. I totally sympathize with the teachers on this, there are many great teachers out there and many more potentially great teachers trying to make their way in the profession. Any extra pressure on you guys takes away from teaching, this is a huge mistake by Enda Kenny.

Please keep in mind that you do have advantages over many other people in the working world. I currently work a 60 hour week in the private sector, no overtime and have to work at least one day of the weekend fairly often. Job security was mentioned by one of the posters, besides established civil servants who has job security? I don't have any Union representation in my workplace so if my contract changes or my job ends there is nothing I can do about it.

I am not in anyway having a go at teachers at all as mentioned I think you do a good and at many times difficult job but bear in mind there are many sectors out there in a much worse situation and people in far more precarious employment scenarios.

Feeona

ledgebag1 wrote: »

I don't have any Union representation in my workplace so if my contract changes or my job ends there is nothing I can do about it.

Have you the option to discuss your position with the person who makes the decisions about your work? Having moved from private to public, that's the biggest disadvantage of working for the public sector I've found so far.

ledgebag1

Feeona wrote: »

Have you the option to discuss your position with the person who makes the decisions about your work? Having moved from private to public, that's the biggest disadvantage of working for the public sector I've found so far.

Yes you do indeed but that doesn't really make any difference. If they want to change your working hours, terms of your contract, what time you eat lunch they can change it and there is not a thing I or anyone I work with can do.

As I said I am not here to berate any teacher for being annoyed or upset about the plainly hypocritical approach by Enda Kenny in regards to your working hours and system. I believe education is the only thing that can pull this country out of the mire we are in BUT there are those out there working far more hours, seeing their family even less and have even less job security than many teachers.

I hope teachers fight this tooth and nail and come up with an amicable agreement with the government.

Lord TSC

So can someone enlighten me on something (I'm still catching up on this story).

If teachers are expected to work extra hours, and presumably these are going to involve extra contact hours, am I right in saying that once again, newer teachers are getting hit here? Presumably they aren't extending the school day, so the extra classes are likely to come out of the scare few hours that are available for newly qualified teachers, right? Or am I taking things up wrong and missing something?

Tigerandahalf

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

So can someone enlighten me

Poster Chris68 explained what is likely to happen on page 3 of this thread.
However I presume it only applies to new entrants. However their salary has been hugely cut already so if their part time was cut again it wouldnt pay them to do the hours. I am not sure where the gov would make savings out of this.

byhookorbycrook

Why would primary teachers stay on in school to do work they could take home?
Heating gets turned off in the afternoon and I'd prefer to work at my own table at home where I can be sure of no interruptions.
Would we get more money for heat and light in schools? To paraphrase a certain tribunal figure "Would we f*ck!!"

byhookorbycrook

E.T. wrote: »

Ah Miss Lockhart, I think you've hit on a major point here. Many people are all for longer working days for teachers as long as it's contact time and the children are in school. They couldn't give a toss what other work has to be done by teachers, this just doesn't enter a lot of their heads.

And indeed free baby-sitting...How many parents would be inclined to take their time picking up kids if thry thought teachers were on-site?

Trotter

Let nobody who hasn't contacted a TD complain if this mess does actually happen. Seriously..

Should anyone need figures to back up what we're already doing, p481 gives the details as far as I can see.
OECD Education at a Glance 2012

savina10

These 35 hr contracts already exist in the adult ed sector. To me it looks like the 35 hour week will include 20 hours teaching and 15 hours 'other duties' e.g Programme co-ordination, disciplinary, supervision, meetings, correcting, exam prep, subbing,unblocking toilets! etc. Special duties posts will become extinct as they will be included in 'other duties'. There will be a savings here (reduce responsiblity posts A & B rather than cutting core pay).

From a practical point of view, where will the teachers work from? There won't be desk space / computers / meeting spaces for all the teachers on 35 hours. Will teachers have to bring their own laptops and sit in the corridors? Maybe

The prep for classes continues in your own time (you won't get any class prep done in school time due to interruptions either). The volunteering continues in your own time. The public will feel they are getting their moneys worth but the schools and the students with get less in the long run.

On the upside teachers might be healthier and happier to ACTUALLY finish work at 5pm instead of burning the midnight oil from Sept to June.

bdoo

Nobody is disputing that there are jobs with longer hours, you will find many young teachers working in the hospitality sector to supplement their low income as they are on less than full pay.

The main issue here seems to be that everyone thinks we do nothing apart from a few hours teaching making talk of a longer working week big news. Most teachers work 40+ hours whether you choose to believe it and recognise it or not.

Many poster would prefer to continue doing their work at home and at weekends instead of being made to stay in the school building to do it.

The point is that the work is already being done and making people stay in schools until 6pm will not save any money. It will simply erode goodwill and undermine much if the extra work which is done for free.

There is employment legislation in existence to prevent exploitation of workers, if you are having difficulty im sure that a union can advise you.

suicide_circus

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I'm in my 6th year teaching, 29 years old & have no job security & am stuck paying rent cause I can't get a mortgage.

Hardly a handy number

ehhh...join the club
this is what life is like for the vast majority of private sector drones.
Welcome to reality.

doc_17

If they are not careful extra curricular activities could vanish overnight in schools.

mitosis

Curious here: To those who are working 60hrs/week.

Does this figure average out over the 52 week year as 60 hrs, or does it only include weeks you actually work? I ask because if it is over a reference period of 52 weeks you must be doing 90-100 hours in a week you work.

ledgebag1

mitosis wrote: »

Curious here: To those who are working 60hrs/week.

Does this figure average out over the 52 week year as 60 hrs, or does it only include weeks you actually work? I ask because if it is over a reference period of 52 weeks you must be doing 90-100 hours in a week you work.

No I work 60 hours a week, ten hours or more over five days and then extra hours on a Saturday most times. I am in work at half 7 in the morning and finish around or after half six in the evening. I am not looking for sympathy, far from it in fact but that's the way it is, this is my job I cant change it right now.

In response to Bdoo, yes there is employment legislation but you are tied to your contract in my contract it states my job description or hours can change to assist in my role and the functionality of the employer. There is little I or any other private sector worker in a similar position can do.

A quick question and this is not a jibe, but one of the posters mentioned previously that the holidays during the summer for teachers is unpaid, is that true, that's got to be difficult to manage financially?

kippy

mitosis wrote: »

Curious here: To those who are working 60hrs/week.

Does this figure average out over the 52 week year as 60 hrs, or does it only include weeks you actually work? I ask because if it is over a reference period of 52 weeks you must be doing 90-100 hours in a week you work.

When you work a 40 hour week, do you average it out over the weekdays that you don't work as well, such as holidays/bank holidays?
I know I don't.

bdoo

ledgebag1 wrote: »

mitosis wrote: »

Curious here: To those who are working 60hrs/week.

Does this figure average out over the 52 week year as 60 hrs, or does it only include weeks you actually work? I ask because if it is over a reference period of 52 weeks you must be doing 90-100 hours in a week you work.

No I work 60 hours a week, ten hours or more over five days and then extra hours on a Saturday most times. I am in work at half 7 in the morning and finish around or after half six in the evening. I am not looking for sympathy, far from it in fact but that's the way it is, this is my job I cant change it right now.

In response to Bdoo, yes there is employment legislation but you are tied to your contract in my contract it states my job description or hours can change to assist in my role and the functionality of the employer. There is little I or any other private sector worker in a similar position can do.

A quick question and this is not a jibe, but one of the posters mentioned previously that the holidays during the summer for teachers is unpaid, is that true, that's got to be difficult to manage financially?

Permanent teachers have their salary paid over 12 months. Many non permanent staff are paid for hours teaching only.

If they are on half hours it doesn't mean they get half the point on the salary scale, it depends on nature and duration of the contract.

Luckily I haven't had to deal with this in a long tome but I remember the first year I was teaching I didn't get paid for the summer. I never wished so hard for September!

ledgebag1

bdoo wrote: »

Permanent teachers have their salary paid over 12 months. Many non permanent staff are paid for hours teaching only.

If they are on half hours it doesn't mean they get half the point on the salary scale, it depends on nature and duration of the contract.

Luckily I haven't had to deal with this in a long tome but I remember the first year I was teaching I didn't get paid for the summer. I never wished so hard for September!

Ah I see, thanks for explaining.

mitosis

ledgebag1 wrote: »

No I work 60 hours a week, ten hours or more over five days and then extra hours on a Saturday most times. I am in work at half 7 in the morning and finish around or after half six in the evening. I am not looking for sympathy, far from it in fact but that's the way it is, this is my job I cant change it right now.

OK, but if you average it out over 52 weeks how many hours per week do you work? I fully accept you might do 60 hrs this week and next, but you didn't do any in the month of August, for example.

Easier one to answer, perhaps: How many hours per year do you work?

mitosis

kippy wrote: »

When you work a 40 hour week, do you average it out over the weekdays that you don't work as well, such as holidays/bank holidays?
I know I don't.

Spurious question - is this how so many teachers enter politics? Teachers are not working PH or Sat/Sun either. When I reckon my weekly average I use a reference period of 17 weeks.

adamski8

ledgebag1 wrote: »

As someone who is not a teacher and is as was described previously as a water cooler jockey. I totally sympathize with the teachers on this, there are many great teachers out there and many more potentially great teachers trying to make their way in the profession. Any extra pressure on you guys takes away from teaching, this is a huge mistake by Enda Kenny.

Please keep in mind that you do have advantages over many other people in the working world. I currently work a 60 hour week in the private sector, no overtime and have to work at least one day of the weekend fairly often. Job security was mentioned by one of the posters, besides established civil servants who has job security? I don't have any Union representation in my workplace so if my contract changes or my job ends there is nothing I can do about it.

I am not in anyway having a go at teachers at all as mentioned I think you do a good and at many times difficult job but bear in mind there are many sectors out there in a much worse situation and people in far more precarious employment scenarios.

+1 on all your points. teachers arent the only profession who have to take their work home with them.

chippers

Unfortunately I fear that this will hit new teachers disproportionately hard. If permanent teachers are forced to stay in the school 9-5 / 6 every day they will use their spare time in the day for corrections and prep. Why would they want to leave it until after their dinner?There will be a drop in permanent teachers taking sports teams / clubs after school.

The task of taking these additional roles will be passed on to new teachers on unsecured contracts who have to prove themselves to have their contract renewed. From an educational point of view this is completely wrong. As a graduate of only two years I find that I have to spend a lot more time with prep compared to my more experienced counterparts. I'm still getting used to the curriculum and figuring out activities that work well in class. This will put a considerable strain on new teachers who are still learning the ropes and could do with extra time (not less!) for carrying preparing their lessons to a decent standard.

On a separate note, I'm teaching in the public sector in Spain and extra curricular activity doesn't exist. The pupils all go home after the final class. It's a damn shame. The extra curricular options in Ireland are great and are in my opinion completely undervalued.

ledgebag1

mitosis wrote: »

OK, but if you average it out over 52 weeks how many hours per week do you work? I fully accept you might do 60 hrs this week and next, but you didn't do any in the month of August, for example.

Easier one to answer, perhaps: How many hours per year do you work?

Every week, except for my holidays (two weeks) and Christmas. You cant average out over 52 weeks as nobody ( I hope) works 52 weeks a year.

The point I am making and if you read my earlier posts I am on the side of teachers, but everybody is getting the ****ty end of the stick. I would just love a 40 hour week

Godge

bdoo wrote: »

Many poster would prefer to continue doing their work at home and at weekends instead of being made to stay in the school building to do it.

The point is that the work is already being done and making people stay in schools until 6pm will not save any money. It will simply erode goodwill and undermine much if the extra work which is done for free.

.

One issue that hasn't been explored is whether there is any educational benefit to team preparation and exchange of ideas in a communal working environment.

Many businesses that initially switched to home working for their employees later switched back to office-based working for that reason among others. There is research to back this up.

I seem to recall reading some research that applied similar principles in a school and found a benefit but I may be wrong. It would be another argument though for getting teachers to do their extra work (which I acknowledge that most do) in the school rather than at home i.e. it is for the good of the students' education.

rainbowtrout

Godge wrote: »

One issue that hasn't been explored is whether there is any educational benefit to team preparation and exchange of ideas in a communal working environment.

Many businesses that initially switched to home working for their employees later switched back to office-based working for that reason among others. There is research to back this up.

I seem to recall reading some research that applied similar principles in a school and found a benefit but I may be wrong. It would be another argument though for getting teachers to do their extra work (which I acknowledge that most do) in the school rather than at home i.e. it is for the good of the students' education.

I find that I get nothing done at school. Not nothing, but I'm not as productive, if I have paperwork to fill in or photocopying to do, or phonecalls to make to parents etc, grand, but because people are coming and going from the staffroom all the time due to everyone's timetable being different, it can be difficult to concentrate and get work done without being interrupted and to start chatting, or someone coming over to you wanting to discuss a student, or a classroom swap or have I ordered exam papers yet etc. Some people come in during a free class and it's their only one of the day so they might sit down and take a break while i'm trying to do work and vice versa. I prefer to correct work and prepare worksheets, make powerpoints etc at home where I don't have those distractions.

Some people are great at getting work done at school, I suppose it depends on their individual situation. People with kids prefer to stay back for an hour and do the work because they know they won't get a minute when they get home.


As for the exchange of ideas, team prep, some people are good at sharing and some are not. I've created lots of presentations for my subject and put them on the server at school. I know the other teacher of my subject uses them as she told me she did, but she doesn't create any such resources, and I feel just waits to see what I'll create so she can use it.

ledgebag1

Do you have to stick to 9-5? My way around that would be to start at and finish at 4?

Markcheese

My god, there are a lot of dedicated teachers on boards ... I had some really good teachers many moons ago... I had some ****e ones who just about turned up (... And didn't always) you could tell the "newer" teachers were doing loads of planning and work... The older good teachers ( more effective)... Had already done the notes and teaching plans years before...
Should 50 hour a week teachers root out the lazy fecks, so they don't to shoulder the burden and see more of their families while upping productivity.... Yeah ...

Janedoe10

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

You try being a young teacher on half hours or a teacher new to a school on a one year contract looking to get back the following school year & you'll see quite quickly that no one "forces" you.

You'll also see that if you don't contribute to school life in this way that you probably won't get your contract renewed.

The lack of job security for teachers who started after 2004 is scary.

Whats also scary is how little money they are paying graduates from this year onwards.

All the Bull$h1t you've been fed in the media about secure, gold-plated pensions doesmt apply to this cohort of teachers.
I'm in my 6th year teaching, 29 years old & have no job security & am stuck paying rent cause I can't get a mortgage.

Hardly a handy number

I still find it hard to accept your viewpoint about job security when u find that private sector seem to have less job security .

Salary now please the amount quoted for out of college teacher graduates is still very good . Compare that to entry level graduate jobs in other sectors or entry level clerical jobs in the public civil service .
There are a lot of private sector employees having to take positions in areas not related to their degrees / area of interests .

Hours . We only hear about public sector hours because unions are " shouting" about it .
Private sector have in some areas do the hours "voluntary" get their time back and are expected to do it for the good of the business . Some find their hours cut less workers employed but rest have to make up for loss of colleagues .

Some have to take work home to keep up . It's expected .

Feeona

Godge wrote: »

One issue that hasn't been explored is whether there is any educational benefit to team preparation and exchange of ideas in a communal working environment.

Many businesses that initially switched to home working for their employees later switched back to office-based working for that reason among others. There is research to back this up.

I seem to recall reading some research that applied similar principles in a school and found a benefit but I may be wrong. It would be another argument though for getting teachers to do their extra work (which I acknowledge that most do) in the school rather than at home i.e. it is for the good of the students' education.

I think working with your colleagues is of great benefit. However, most schools are not equipped to deal with this and it's another reason people do their work at home. Most schools I've been in have one photocopier and one printer, there might be twenty people on staff trying to photocopy and print at the same time. Inevitably the machines break down . Another thing to think about is the caretaker. A teacher can't expect a caretaker to hang around all evening waiting to lock up because Ms/Mr X wants to get paper work done. The caretaker would be in from eight in the morning, hardly fair to expect him to stay until you're finished all your paperwork. One other factor is heating and lighting bills. Maintenance grants in schools have already been cut, with many schools opting to leave the heating off til October. Get a day like yesterday and you know all about it! So these maintenance grants would have to be increased if they expect people to stay in the building and work efficiently. I couldn't see too many people overjoyed at the thought of doing paperwork in a freezing classroom! EDIT : Personally, I think that these are the types of reasons that public sector workers are so wary of changes. It might seem simple to say 'Just stay in school and do your work instead of going home', but the reality is that people would end up working in sub standard conditions because it'd be a cold day in hell before resources would be provided for the changeover.

Inspector Coptoor

Janedoe10 wrote: »

I still find it hard to accept your viewpoint about job security when u find that private sector seem to have less job security .

Salary now please the amount quoted for out of college teacher graduates is still very good . Compare that to entry level graduate jobs in other sectors or entry level clerical jobs in the public civil service .
There are a lot of private sector employees having to take positions in areas not related to their degrees / area of interests .

Hours . We only hear about public sector hours because unions are " shouting" about it .
Private sector have in some areas do the hours "voluntary" get their time back and are expected to do it for the good of the business . Some find their hours cut less workers employed but rest have to make up for loss of colleagues .
m
Some have to take work home to keep up . It's expected .

Private sector "seem" to have less job security.
That's what people want you to think.
You are all being painted a picture of the modern day teacher in Ireland. Overpaid, lazy & laughing on their "paid" holidays while you guys work all year with 22 days off.

The reality for a huge number of teachers is that they are on one year contracts, or covering maternity wave when they get an hourly rate for the teaching they do, so effectively the school "holidays" are enforced unemployment for this cohort of teachers.

On top of that, many teachers are being given half a job, ie, 11 teaching hours instead of 22, and then pressured into contributing huge chunks of time to school life and getting nothing for it.

There is a huge vulnerability issue there for younger teachers & those who don't have CID's.

I find it very hard to see how you can call
€27k a year "very good" as a starting salary for a teacher who will have a level
8 degree, a PGDE, and in many cases a level 9 or above.

You mention CO joba in the public sector. I don't see the comparison as you don't have to have as many qualifications for a CO job.

I heard yesterday that a cleaner in the HDE gets 27k. I've nothing against cleaners or the work they do BUT again, you don't have to go to college at all to be a cleaner.

I wish the unions were shouting more. They seem far too willing to enable the shafting of new recruits while looking after the old guard who are paying full subscriptions.
I can see the unions dying in the future as by the time the pre 1004 teachers retire in larger numbers, there will be a large anti union sentiment felt by the shafted teachers left behind.

My point earlier about pen pushers & water cooler jockeys was to put some perspective on things. If we can be slated by all & sundry, why can't we slate back?

I've worked in an office setting where I was given work to do, had it done in half a day & was given out to for not "making the work last" 3 days.

I've seen how people saunter around offices with a blank page in their hands, talking the good talk but unable to walk the good walk.

The inherent problem is that we have all been to school so we all think we know what teachers do from our blinkered positions as students and or parents.

I'm not saying there aren't some useless teachers out there on untouchable contracts, there absolutely are. But this type of teacher is rarely finding work now if not already employed because they can't hack the pace & don't get their contracts renewed.

Surely people agree that we NEED teachers?

If we pay teachers low wages, we'll get ****e, unmotivated teachers.

Do I think permanent contracts should be handed out immediately to new graduates? No, not at all.

Everyone should have to spend time in the trenches learning their trade, become syllabus aware and tracing in different schools. The days of the one school teacher are over.

But how long should life in the trenches be? I'd say 3-4 years is plenty. If the teacher has proven themselves capable, then there should be the reward of a job, again, based on the fact that we NEED teachers.

There are 1,000,000 kids of school going age in Ireland & that WILL rise over the next 5-10 years. If teaching becomes a semi-profession, which it's close to becoming already, the next generation of kids will end up with a very average education.

ledgebag1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Private sector "seem" to have less job security.
That's what people want you to think.
You are all being painted a picture of the modern day teacher in Ireland. Overpaid, lazy & laughing on their "paid" holidays while you guys work all year with 22 days off.

The reality for a huge number of teachers is that they are on one year contracts, or covering maternity wave when they get an hourly rate for the teaching they do, so effectively the school "holidays" are enforced unemployment for this cohort of teachers.

On top of that, many teachers are being given half a job, ie, 11 teaching hours instead of 22, and then pressured into contributing huge chunks of time to school life and getting nothing for it.

There is a huge vulnerability issue there for younger teachers & those who don't have CID's.

I find it very hard to see how you can call
€27k a year "very good" as a starting salary for a teacher who will have a level
8 degree, a PGDE, and in many cases a level 9 or above.

You mention CO joba in the public sector. I don't see the comparison as you don't have to have as many qualifications for a CO job.

I heard yesterday that a cleaner in the HDE gets 27k. I've nothing against cleaners or the work they do BUT again, you don't have to go to college at all to be a cleaner.

I wish the unions were shouting more. They seem far too willing to enable the shafting of new recruits while looking after the old guard who are paying full subscriptions.
I can see the unions dying in the future as by the time the pre 1004 teachers retire in larger numbers, there will be a large anti union sentiment felt by the shafted teachers left behind.

My point earlier about pen pushers & water cooler jockeys was to put some perspective on things. If we can be slated by all & sundry, why can't we slate back?

I've worked in an office setting where I was given work to do, had it done in half a day & was given out to for not "making the work last" 3 days.

I've seen how people saunter around offices with a blank page in their hands, talking the good talk but unable to walk the good walk.

The inherent problem is that we have all been to school so we all think we know what teachers do from our blinkered positions as students and or parents.

I'm not saying there aren't some useless teachers out there on untouchable contracts, there absolutely are. But this type of teacher is rarely finding work now if not already employed because they can't hack the pace & don't get their contracts renewed.

Surely people agree that we NEED teachers?

If we pay teachers low wages, we'll get ****e, unmotivated teachers.

Do I think permanent contracts should be handed out immediately to new graduates? No, not at all.

Everyone should have to spend time in the trenches learning their trade, become syllabus aware and tracing in different schools. The days of the one school teacher are over.

But how long should life in the trenches be? I'd say 3-4 years is plenty. If the teacher has proven themselves capable, then there should be the reward of a job, again, based on the fact that we NEED teachers.

There are 1,000,000 kids of school going age in Ireland & that WILL rise over the next 5-10 years. If teaching becomes a semi-profession, which it's close to becoming already, the next generation of kids will end up with a very average education.

No one has slated you!! IN fact you are the one throwing around stereotypes and basic horse s***e really

"I've worked in an office setting where I was given work to do, had it done in half a day & was given out to for not "making the work last" 3 days."

I've seen how people saunter around offices with a blank page in their hands, talking the good talk but unable to walk the good walk"

Of course there a places like this, I worked for Irish rail in the past and heard the exact things and saw the exact same things, that's life

I could easily talk about my teachers from the past, about the ones who went to the pub at lunch, weren't arsed teaching us etc etc but that would be going off topic.

I have a masters and work with two other people with masters, I make €24,000 a year and haven't had a pay raise in three years. As I mentioned earlier this is MY situation I can't change it right now but I am getting on with it.

In response to your union thoughts, I think you are wrong, if you lose your union its game over for teachers, simple as that. You will work much longer hours and probably find yourself working on Saturday due to some harebrained idea by some junior minister In fact now is the time you should be making them wokr for their money, rather than hysterically typing responses here

The point I am specifically making is, and if you read my previous posts which i am not going over again, teachers do a good and difficult job but there are people in the working world under more pressure and working longer hours

Inspector Coptoor

You mean to tell me you haven't seen of heard teachers being slated on here or in the wider media??

See no evil, hear no evil.

And as for my post bring a "hysterical response", all I have to say is ROFL

ledgebag1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

You mean to tell me you haven't seen of heard teachers being slated on here or in the wider media??

See no evil, hear no evil.

And as for my post bring a "hysterical response", all I have to say is ROFL

Everyone gets slated in the media, nurses doctors teachers private sector public sector, and your response is fairly hysterical and for a teacher "ROFL", really:)

I think you mean being rather than bring



Good response though

Inspector Coptoor

ledgebag1 wrote: »

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

You mean to tell me you haven't seen of heard teachers being slated on here or in the wider media??

See no evil, hear no evil.

And as for my post being a "hysterical response", all I have to say is ROFL

Everyone gets slated in the media, nurses doctors teachers private sector public sector, and your response is fairly hysterical and for a teacher "ROFL", really:)

Good response though

I is down with d Kidz

Keyboard warriors love pointing out spelling mistakes.

Now, I'm putting the phone down, classes to teach.

ledgebag1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I is down with d Kidz

Keyboard warriors love pointing out spelling mistakes.

Now, I'm putting the phone down, classes to teach.

Phone? One nil to the teacher i suppose

jsd1004

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

It would be great if my working week was reduced to 40 hours.
I would welcome the extra time to spend with my friends and family.
Doing school work every night and for a large chunk of weekends is over-rated!

Spoke to a teacher the other day who was saying that his pay packet of about 1100 euros after tax was hard to live on but then added if you break it down to the amount of hours actually worked it was not so bad..

Ken.

I don't understand why people give out about teachers getting 2-3 months off but no-one bats an eyelid when our €100k+ each member of parliament take the same amount of time off from running the country at around the same time.

kippy

mitosis wrote: »

Spurious question - is this how so many teachers enter politics? Teachers are not working PH or Sat/Sun either. When I reckon my weekly average I use a reference period of 17 weeks.

You must be the only person in the world that does to be honest.

No idea why so many teachers enter politics. Perhaps they aren't great teachers, I honestly don't know.

ledgebag1

kippy wrote: »

You must be the only person in the world that does to be honest.

No idea why so many teachers enter politics. Perhaps they aren't great teachers, I honestly don't know.

It could be their association within the community, good teachers that have good standing maybe and run for local council and progress further? It's a good question though.

Another question I have is do teachers get paid over time? For instance covering extra classes etc or is their salary all they get?

How do Irish rates compare to British or European pay scales, I am not trying to inflame anything I just want to get an idea myself. I know its all relative but in an hourly rate where do Ireland stand on pay scale rankings?

chippers

ledgebag1 wrote: »

I have a masters and work with two other people with masters, I make €24,000 a year and haven't had a pay raise in three years. As I mentioned earlier this is MY situation I can't change it right now but I am getting on with it.

Out of interest what do you do ledgebag? How long are you out of college? Is your masters relevant to what you do?

I'm not having a go - but if your making a comparison it would be good to get a better picture.

Fuinseog

In Britain and some schools here you are no allowed to leave the school premises during school hours. maybe this is what he means?
I would much rather do my preparation in school and then go to my other life.

chippers

ledgebag1 wrote: »

How do Irish rates compare to British or European pay scales, I am not trying to inflame anything I just want to get an idea myself. I know its all relative but in an hourly rate where do Ireland stand on pay scale rankings?

I don't know all European countries but I do know the salary of a permanent teacher on the old salary scale in Ireland (not the current one) would be quite high. It would be higher than England and Spain for example.

When teachers who are on temporary contracts ie half hours / quarter hours / not paid for holidays etc are taken into account I would expect the difference in pay to be reduced by quite a lot.

ledgebag1

chippers wrote: »

I don't know all European countries but I do know the salary of a permanent teacher on the old salary scale in Ireland (not the current one) would be quite high. It would be higher than England and Spain for example.

When teachers who are on temporary contracts ie half hours / quarter hours / not paid for holidays etc are taken into account I would expect the difference in pay to be reduced by quite a lot.

Ah okay, it sounds tough for newly qualified teachers out there.

implausible

ledgebag1 wrote: »

It could be their association within the community, good teachers that have good standing maybe and run for local council and progress further? It's a good question though.

Another question I have is do teachers get paid over time? For instance covering extra classes etc or is their salary all they get?

How do Irish rates compare to British or European pay scales, I am not trying to inflame anything I just want to get an idea myself. I know its all relative but in an hourly rate where do Ireland stand on pay scale rankings?

Good questions

There is no paid overtime for teachers. There is a substitution/supervision scheme which you sign up to at the beginning of the year and you make yourself available for supervising classes and yard duty etc. This is paid. However, the reality is that the s/s scheme doesn't cover everything and in many schools, it often happens that you're asked to "step into" a class. Extra-curricular activities like training a football team are not part of s/s and are not paid. Bringing a group away to a play in Dublin and not returning until midnight is not paid. Giving extra revision classes or taking students during lunch or after school to complete projects or do preparation for orals are not paid.

Teachers who are on part-time hours can do extra hours if a teacher is on certified sick leave and if they are chosen to. They can then get paid for those classes.

The hourly rate is extremely problematic to compare as other countries consider their teachers to do more than simply teach i.e. they factor in department meetings, on-site time and prep time. It is also worth considering that in countries such as Finland, extra-curricular activities are not part of school life.

chippers

ledgebag1 wrote: »

Ah okay, it sounds tough for newly qualified teachers out there.

This term 'newly qualified teachers' is thrown about a bit. The reality is that it is not just newly qualified teachers and often teachers who have a number of years experience.

ledgebag1

implausible wrote: »

Good questions

There is no paid overtime for teachers. There is a substitution/supervision scheme which you sign up to at the beginning of the year and you make yourself available for supervising classes and yard duty etc. This is paid. However, the reality is that the s/s scheme doesn't cover everything and in many schools, it often happens that you're asked to "step into" a class. Extra-curricular activities like training a football team are not part of s/s and are not paid. Bringing a group away to a play in Dublin and not returning until midnight is not paid. Giving extra revision classes or taking students during lunch or after school to complete projects or do preparation for orals are not paid.

Teachers who are on part-time hours can do extra hours if a teacher is on certified sick leave and if they are chosen to. They can then get paid for those classes.

The hourly rate is extremely problematic to compare as other countries consider their teachers to do more than simply teach i.e. they factor in department meetings, on-site time and prep time. It is also worth considering that in countries such as Finland, extra-curricular activities are not part of school life.

Okay, that's cleared it up for me, appreciate the answer

ledgebag1

chippers wrote: »

This term 'newly qualified teachers' is thrown about a bit. The reality is that it is not just newly qualified teachers and often teachers who have a number of years experience.

When teachers who are on temporary contracts ie half hours / quarter hours / not paid for holidays etc are taken into account I would expect the difference in pay to be reduced by quite a lot.

My apologies I presumed it was mostly newly qualified teachers on the temporary contracts and reduced hours

chippers

ledgebag1 wrote: »

When teachers who are on temporary contracts ie half hours / quarter hours / not paid for holidays etc are taken into account I would expect the difference in pay to be reduced by quite a lot.

My apologies I presumed it was mostly newly qualified teachers on the temporary contracts and reduced hours

That's okay.The reality is that most teachers are in this position for a number of years post qualifying. They move around from school to school trying to get whatever hours they can. There are the lucky few of course who get full hours but that unfortunately is the minority!

ledgebag1

chippers wrote: »

Out of interest what do you do ledgebag? How long are you out of college? Is your masters relevant to what you do?

I'm not having a go - but if your making a comparison it would be good to get a better picture.

Sorry I just saw this, I am a water cooler Jockey for a business in Dublin, I finished my MA in December and graduated this month, I studied part time. No my masters is in History not at all relevant to my current position. I have been toying with the idea of going back to do the HDip or maybe further but time, money and family life is a big issue.

Inspector Coptoor

Giddy up