Latest Polls - FG down, SF & Indos up

Technoprisoner

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Eh no. Sinn Fein's policies are populist and pure fantasy. Just because FF, FG and Lab are bad doesn't mean Sinn Fein are good.

it does if you agree with their policies. Just because their ideas differ from the norm of ff/fg doesnt mean it is pure fantasy does it?

p1akuw47h5r3it

Technoprisoner wrote: »

it does if you agree with their policies. Just because their ideas differ from the norm of ff/fg doesnt mean it is pure fantasy does it?

No it doesn't but the opposite is true. It doesn't mean their policies are the way forward or will somehow get us out of the recession. There is a reason that one of FF,FG and Lab are voted in election after election and that is that there is no real alternative to these parties including Sinn Fein

Technoprisoner

well maybe next election we will get the chance to find out for ourselves if they are capable of running the country and getting us out of recession

p1akuw47h5r3it

Technoprisoner wrote: »

well maybe next election we will get the chance to find out for ourselves if they are capable of running the country and getting us out of recession

Well maybe but I hope not!

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

It is a one party state and we know it. FG.....which is a nightmare...but soon people are going to realize that our economic situation is not for five or ten years but more like thirty or more. THEN we may get radicalized ideas...but SF are living in fantasy land because even THEY know they have no chance of getting into govt.

When people realize this is really going to go on for thirty or more years ..maybe then ..but unntil then lets be honest people will vote FG just like they did FF..because they are uninformed.

SaoriseBiker

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Eh no. Sinn Fein's policies are populist and pure fantasy. Just because FF, FG and Lab are bad doesn't mean Sinn Fein are good.

Yep that's right SF haven't a clue, create a property bubble, let the banksters break every regualtion and then let them off, pay off €100 Billion foreign gambling debts to which the people of Ireland have no responsibilty for, oppose limiting the grossly overpaid politicans, public service and semi states to €100,000, introduce a new rate of tax of 48% to those who can well aford to pay it etc, etc

Ah it's lucky we have FF/FG/Labour and enough gombeens people to vote them in or else the state would go bankrupt for decades wouldn't it !!!!!

Slurryface

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Yep that's right SF haven't a clue, create a property bubble, let the banksters break every regualtion and then let them off, pay off €100 Billion foreign gambling debts to which the people of Ireland have no responsibilty for, oppose limiting the grossly overpaid politicans, public service and semi states to €100,000, introduce a new rate of tax of 48% to those who can well aford to pay it etc, etc

Ah it's lucky we have FF/FG/Labour and enough gombeens people to vote them in or else the state would go bankrupt for decades wouldn't it !!!!!

Vote in SinnFein and then get the next plane out, if theres any room on it.

p1akuw47h5r3it

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Yep that's right SF haven't a clue, create a property bubble, let the banksters break every regualtion and then let them off, pay off €100 Billion foreign gambling debts to which the people of Ireland have no responsibilty for, oppose limiting the grossly overpaid politicans, public service and semi states to €100,000, introduce a new rate of tax of 48% to those who can well aford to pay it etc, etc

Ah it's lucky we have FF/FG/Labour and enough gombeens people to vote them in or else the state would go bankrupt for decades wouldn't it !!!!!

No, it's lucky we have people who vote in FF/FG/Labour so Sinn Fein and the ULA never have a chance to get into government and make everything worse.

I'm not saying FF/FG/Lab are good, just that Sinn Fein are worse.

Sand

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Disagree. Even today, all signs are showing that unemployment has plateaued and that the economy is finally starting to stabilize. Yes, there is tough medicine to come with the next two Budget's, but if we can get through this tricky period, then I think this country will be in a very good position in 18 months. Unemployment will take time to come down, but I suspect over the next few months we are going to see the numbers nudge downwards. Once this starts to filter through, support for the hard left is going to evaporate a lot quicker than many anticipate.

Even though Enda hasn't had the support of many in his own party, I said that when he was elected, he would go on to become a fine Taoiseach and that the history books would write very positively about his contribution. So far, he has exceeded expectations and I think that the electorate will recognise this and keep Fine Gael in power, and keep Sinn Féin out.

Just on this point, which I meant to respond to earlier: the problem is that stabilization of the economy has been pronounced for practically every year since 2008, with everyone assured that the economy is poised to take off in the next 18 months. Recovery is always only 18 months away.

I don't find any of these assurance credible ( only the week after you assured me that unemployment has plateaued, unemployment jumped again in the CSO stats) though eventually through sheer persistence they'll eventually be right. The reason none of the assurance are credible is because they're never able to explain *why* the bottom has been reached, or why we're going to see an economic recovery. Its just a profession of faith.

If economic recovery depended only on hope and prayers, the PR department of the DoF would have saved the day by now.

SaoriseBiker

Slurryface wrote: »

Vote in SinnFein and then get the next plane out, if theres any room on it.

DanDan6592 wrote: »

No, it's lucky we have people who vote in FF/FG/Labour so Sinn Fein and the ULA never have a chance to get into government and make everything worse.

I'm not saying FF/FG/Lab are good, just that Sinn Fein are worse.

SF are weak on economic grounds, while Labour, FF and FG are absolutely brilliant.........oh wait, the bloody country's bankrupt and it's getting worse :eek:

Slurryface

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

SF are weak on economic grounds, while Labour, FF and FG are absolutely brilliant.........oh wait, the bloody country's bankrupt and it's getting worse :eek:

Yea, and the shinners are doing such a great job in Northern Ireland slashing and cutting..... then again they would be well used to slashing and cutting (and bombing and killing and maiming)

K-9

This is a thread to discuss opinion polls, not one to bash whatever party you hate most. Keep posts on topic please.

maccored

Slurryface wrote: »

Yea, and the shinners are doing such a great job in Northern Ireland slashing and cutting..... then again they would be well used to slashing and cutting (and bombing and killing and maiming)

I do not wish to extend this, but it should be pointed out that its common knowledge financial decisions in the north arent decided in northern ireland

p1akuw47h5r3it

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

SF are weak on economic grounds, while Labour, FF and FG are absolutely brilliant.........oh wait, the bloody country's bankrupt and it's getting worse :eek:

Wow. Your really finding this hard to grasp aren't you! No FG/FF/Lab aren't absolutely brilliant on economic grounds. Sinn Fein are just worse

You obviously have difficulty in interpreting what I'm saying.

Back on topic I don't think the polls mean anything. They fluctuate month by month if not week by week depending essentially on whether the government/individual party has had a "good" or "bad" week. The only thing that matters is the results from the previous election.

SaoriseBiker

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Wow. Your really finding this hard to grasp aren't you! No FG/FF/Lab aren't absolutely brilliant on economic grounds. Sinn Fein are just worse

You obviously have difficulty in interpreting what I'm saying.

Back on topic I don't think the polls mean anything. They fluctuate month by month if not week by week depending essentially on whether the government/individual party has had a "good" or "bad" week. The only thing that matters is the results from the previous election.

Nope, their's nothing whatsoever to grasp, you have'nt come up with any explaination on your allegations against SF's policies except empty one line statements such as " Sinn Fein's policies are populist and pure fantasy........I'm not saying FF/FG/Lab are good, just that Sinn Fein are worse ". No explaination, nothing.

You might as well just say I don't like SF policies because well, errr, ehmm I don't like SF !!!!

Godge

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Nope, their's nothing whatsoever to grasp, you have'nt come up with any explaination on your allegations against SF's policies except empty one line statements such as " Sinn Fein's policies are populist and pure fantasy........I'm not saying FF/FG/Lab are good, just that Sinn Fein are worse ". No explaination, nothing.

You might as well just say I don't like SF policies because well, errr, ehmm I don't like SF !!!!

SF don't have a lot of economic policies, they are really populist soundbites such as cut all public service wages to €100,000 (the legal costs from the resultant court action they would lose would make this very costly), tax the wealthy through a vague wealth tax etc. All of this attracts disgruntled voters. Problem is that while this will attract voters at a time there is no election in prospect (such as now) leading to an increase in support for SF, come the election when voters start asking, well what exactly will SF do?, then the answers are in short supply and voters drift away.

maccored

i love the way people use the word populist. SF are offering to tackle the issues people want tackled (a stance they have always had). I suppose you could call that populist. Not that FG and Labour werent properly populist in the fairy tales they had their voters believing in at the last election. Im sure there are plenty of anti shinners who help vote in the current government AND some of the FF govns of the past.

Godge

maccored wrote: »

i love the way people use the word populist. SF are offering to tackle the issues people want tackled (a stance they have always had). I suppose you could call that populist. Not that FG and Labour werent properly populist in the fairy tales they had their voters believing in at the last election. Im sure there are plenty of anti shinners who help vote in the current government AND some of the FF govns of the past.

Populist is usually used to refer to policies that are designed to appeal to the general public but that are based in fantasy land and have no basis in the reality of the economic situation that faces this country.

I haven't heard anything from any SF politician or any SF apologist that would lead me to conclude that they have any bit of a clue about how the economy works.

Technoprisoner

it would be intresting to see a poll done tomorrow after the government pays out 1 billion to bond holders

Le_Dieux

Technoprisoner wrote: »

it would be intresting to see a poll done tomorrow after the government pays out 1 billion to bond holders

And the fallout from the past week included.

Laminations

Le_Dieux wrote: »

And the fallout from the past week included.

Are you referring to Delours Prices comments that Gerry Adams, leader of SF, was an IRA terrorist directly involved in bombings and abductions??

SaoriseBiker

Laminations wrote: »

Are you referring to Delours Prices comments that Gerry Adams, leader of SF, was an IRA terrorist directly involved in bombings and abductions??

I haven't the slightest doubt Adams was in the IRA no matter what he says. However if Price or any other Republican were to allege anything about say, a British minister, a top unionist or a gombeen politician down here, people like you would be the very ones dismissing her as Walter Mitty crank and part of the Provo propaganda machine etc.

Laminations

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

I haven't the slightest doubt Adams was in the IRA no matter what he says. However if Price or any other Republican were to allege anything about say, a British minister, a top unionist or a gombeen politician down here, people like you would be the very ones dismissing her as Walter Mitty crank and part of the Provo propaganda machine etc.

She can allege away. Apart from the gombeen politician 'down here' I wouldn't be asked to vote for any of the others. Adams will possibly have some position in a future Irish government. His past is more important than some British official. I will let the British worry about the character of their politicians

SaoriseBiker

Laminations wrote: »

She can allege away. Apart from the gombeen politician 'down here' I wouldn't be asked to vote for any of the others. Adams will possibly have some position in a future Irish government. His past is more important than some British official. I will let the British worry about the character of their politicians

I'd doubt if Adams will be in any future Irish govt as I cannot see SF in govt down here for another 8/10 years, though when they are in govt it will be as the majority partner, but time will only tell. As for letting "the British worry about the character of their politicians" well clearly through the actions of the Brit dirty tricks dept/SAS/UVF etc the British have very many allegations to answer to down here* but you only apply your selectively morality to the actions of those in Sinn Fein.

* http://www.dublinmonaghanbombings.org/

(" I wouldn't be asked to vote for any of the others. " Then who would you vote for by any chance ?? )

Godge

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

I'd doubt if Adams will be in any future Irish govt as I cannot see SF in govt down here for another 8/10 years, though when they are in govt it will be as the majority partner, but time will only tell. As for letting "the British worry about the character of their politicians" well clearly through the actions of the Brit dirty tricks dept/SAS/UVF etc the British have very many allegations to answer to down here* but you only apply your selectively morality to the actions of those in Sinn Fein.

* http://www.dublinmonaghanbombings.org/

(" I wouldn't be asked to vote for any of the others. " Then who would you vote for by any chance ?? )

Hmmm, isn't this post the kernel of the problem for SinnFein when it comes to turning opinion poll gains into true electoral success. The main message of Sinn Fein is that we have moved on from the past and that what we did back then or who we are doesn't matter. However, this message comes unstuck under the pressure of an election campaign and SF supporters, apologists and politicians revert to the politics of the past and drag allegations of what the British army/government/loyalists/UDA/UVF/unionists did in the past into the debate. The neutrals watching conclude again that the leopard's spot are indeed unchanged and change their mind before casting ballot and SF's poll positions are not reflected in their electoral outcome.

Until SF supporters can come on message boards like this and on TV and radio and debate the issues of the day in Ireland without resorting to referencing the northern conflict then they will continue to have difficulty converting opinion poll sympathy between elections into actual real electoral gains.

SaoriseBiker

Godge wrote: »

Hmmm, isn't this post the kernel of the problem for SinnFein when it comes to turning opinion poll gains into true electoral success. The main message of Sinn Fein is that we have moved on from the past and that what we did back then or who we are doesn't matter. However, this message comes unstuck under the pressure of an election campaign and SF supporters, apologists and politicians revert to the politics of the past and drag allegations of what the British army/government/loyalists/UDA/UVF/unionists did in the past into the debate. The neutrals watching conclude again that the leopard's spot are indeed unchanged and change their mind before casting ballot and SF's poll positions are not reflected in their electoral outcome.

Until SF supporters can come on message boards like this and on TV and radio and debate the issues of the day in Ireland without resorting to referencing the northern conflict then they will continue to have difficulty converting opinion poll sympathy between elections into actual real electoral gains.

Grasping at straws matey you'll see in the council and Euro elections how SF will convert it's poll positions into electoral gain Like I stated earlier in a post, even the Irish Times is getting tired of the Gerry Adams eat my pet hamster line when ' Inda ' and co are challenged in the Dail by SF.

And if you and others are so worried about SF's past, how come you don't apply the same concern to Gilmore, Rabbitte, Kathleen Lynch and their old comrades in the Offical IRA/Workers Party ?

Godge

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Grasping at straws matey you'll see in the council and Euro elections how SF will convert it's poll positions into electoral gain Like I stated earlier in a post, even the Irish Times is getting tired of the Gerry Adams eat my pet hamster line when ' Inda ' and co are challenged in the Dail by SF.

And if you and others are so worried about SF's past, how come you don't apply the same concern to Gilmore, Rabbitte, Kathleen Lynch and their old comrades in the Offical IRA/Workers Party ?

Council and Euro elections don't matter. If they did, Comrade Joe would have stayed in Europe.

Some of us are old enough never to forget about Gerry Adams and his ilk.

Thinkingaboutit

Thank God that that the Fianna Fail: the Irish Pirate Party remain at 16%. They might think 'we all partied,' but they are to blame for the particular savagery in Ireland of worldwide debt induced stagnation. Sinn Fein might be one of the few political parties that could get money from banks rather than have to give it large quantities (sorry bad joke), but generally they seem to peddle a socialist economic vision that has failed in Cuba or Venezuela or anywhere. Maybe that is beginning to change, but I have yet to see it. A high proportion of independents are of the traditional gombeen sort. Mick Wallace or Michael Lowry remain highly representative of that lot. Fine Gael are dully implementing what they decried in opposition. Any deals to relief the burden a little, don't hide that. Labour are the party of the Public Sector, something with too big a size for this small open economy. If Barack Obama decided to modify US tax policy and has a cooperate houses of Congress, for his next four years, all these MNC headquarters would be finished.

We can take nothing for granted, and we have a dreadful political class who have shown they cannot cope with crises.

SaoriseBiker

Godge wrote: »

Council and Euro elections don't matter. If they did, Comrade Joe would have stayed in Europe.

Some of us are old enough never to forget about Gerry Adams and his ilk.

" Council and Euro elections don't matter " But you can forget about Gilmore, Rabbitte and Lynch's friends though and the servile pandering of FG/LAB/FF to the British and unionist murder gangs throughout the troubles.

SaoriseBiker

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

Thank God that that the Fianna Fail: the Irish Pirate Party remain at 16%. They might think 'we all partied,' but they are to blame for the particular savagery in Ireland of worldwide debt induced stagnation. Sinn Fein might be one of the few political parties that could get money from banks rather than have to give it large quantities (sorry bad joke), but generally they seem to peddle a socialist economic vision that has failed in Cuba or Venezuela or anywhere. Maybe that is beginning to change, but I have yet to see it. A high proportion of independents are of the traditional gombeen sort. Mick Wallace or Michael Lowry remain highly representative of that lot. Fine Gael are dully implementing what they decried in opposition. Any deals to relief the burden a little, don't hide that. Labour are the party of the Public Sector, something with too big a size for this small open economy. If Barack Obama decided to modify US tax policy and has a cooperate houses of Congress, for his next four years, all these MNC headquarters would be finished.

We can take nothing for granted, and we have a dreadful political class who have shown they cannot cope with crises.

As someone once said, it must feel starange for SFers to go into a bank without a balaclava on As for Sinn Fein's socialist vision, more Denmark or Sweden. But of course the capitalist model has been an outstanding success .e.g. Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal not to mention that utopia that was bankrupt in the mid 70's and had to ask the IMF to bail them out, Britain !!!!

Godge

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

" Council and Euro elections don't matter " But you can forget about Gilmore, Rabbitte and Lynch's friends though and the servile pandering of FG/LAB/FF to the British and unionist murder gangs throughout the troubles.

"the servile pandering of FG/LAB/FF to the British and unionist murder gangs throughout the troubles" - that is an opinion, not a fact.

The involvement of the SF/IRA in murder is a fact, not an opinion.

I find it very easy to differentiate between the two.

Going back on-topic, the point I have made already in this thread is that when the heat is on SF politicians/supporters/sympathisers they retreat back to the "wrap the green flag round me and aren't the Brits to blame" type politics. When this happens in election campaigns, they lose votes and the other parties capitalise and the SF poll rating drops.

The exception will be the next local and European elections which will be a protest vote against the "politics of austerity". You will see all kinds of weird and wonderful people elected from all dark corners of the political spectrum. Thankfully, as the people well know, councillors and MEPs don't really have any powers so it won't matter. The problem for SF and the others will be in the following general election when the people soberly consider who to elect into government. The local election vote will disappear in smoke.