The jumpers are coming 2012/13

Morgans

Speculative yes, but I wouldnt put off anyone betting on Cue Card for the Gold Cup at 33/1.

UrbanSea

I thought he'd be nice for the Ryanair Morgans.

Two nice ex novices already impressing in Cue Card and For Non Stop. Should be a great year

RichieLawlor

Surely shows too much speed to be even considered for the gold cup. Not a chance he would stay imo

Morgans

Yes. Its speculative, but if he runs well (or wins) the King george, which of course is no gimme, I would be surprised if they are tempted to step him back down rather than step up in trip.

If he doesnt stay the King George, the Ryanair is the obvious option, with Sprinter Sacre around.

hucklebuck

Morgans wrote: »

Speculative yes, but I wouldnt put off anyone betting on Cue Card for the Gold Cup at 33/1.

Speculative might be unfair on him given save for possibly Imperial Commander, the distinct lack of a top class three miler in the Gold Cup


I was just about to say I havent seen the race yet but the way he jumps, travels kindly and he looks every bit a decent stayer. Talk of Betfair Chase and King George so thats a tried and tested course to Cheltenham, I cant see them running him between King George and Gold Cup either.

hucklebuck

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Ladbrokes were briefly 11/8 last night.

Thanks for keeping that quiet Colonel

Seriously thought whoever priced that up should be sacked, his sp was even generous but delighted with hoovering it up.

hucklebuck

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Surely shows too much speed to be even considered for the gold cup. Not a chance he would stay imo

I think he will get 3m easy, 3m2 at cheltenham might be a leap but Haydock will tell plenty.

Morgans

I think one thing is sure that he isnt quick enough for the Champion Chase. He comes with a similar profile to Kicking King, War of Attrition and Best Mate.

And he is 33/1.

I know that I wouldnt lay anything greater than 14s.

For a horse that shows so much speed, it is interesting that he only ran once over 2m as a novice - in the Arkle.

hucklebuck

Monkerhostin and Best Mate won the Haldon and Kauto had plenty of pace and he won The Tingle Creek the year he won his first King George.

ste2010

I see ruby is sticking to his guns not riding zarkander! He's on prospect wells in the elite hurdle on Saturday in wincanton...
Interested to see what balder success price will be

mr.jingle

Aaim to Prosper gone to Nicholls stable, won Cesarewitch for the 2nd time this year and could well be a nice type over staying distances similiar to Tominator and there wouldn't be much between them

mdwexford

hucklebuck wrote: »

Speculative might be unfair on him given save for possibly Imperial Commander, the distinct lack of a top class three miler in the Gold Cup


I was just about to say I havent seen the race yet but the way he jumps, travels kindly and he looks every bit a decent stayer. Talk of Betfair Chase and King George so thats a tried and tested course to Cheltenham, I cant see them running him between King George and Gold Cup either.

Top two in the betting are rock solid, have plenty of class and are both festival winners last year.

Not to mention Long Run who this time last year was the greatest thing since sliced bread and for whatever reason wasnt on his game last season but if they can get him back to what he was he will take some stopping also.

Plenty of possible improvers as well, think it could be a great race this season if the majority of them make it to the race.

hucklebuck

mdwexford wrote: »

Top two in the betting are rock solid, have plenty of class and are both festival winners last year.

Not to mention Long Run

Sir Des Champs is nothing more than a decent prospect at this stage and he needs to improve at least a stone on what he has done to be classed as rock solid. He is also a french horse rising 7 so he might not have much improvement left in him.

There are two proven top class three milers in the market both with big question marks, Imperial Commander must come back having lost no more than 10lbs ability to win and there are massive question marks over Long Run after last year. It might be an odd comment for a horse rising 8 but I think he cut the figure of a broken horse. His gold cup run was terrible, he must have run 20lbs below his rating.

I would not be touching either Sir Des Champs or Long Run until seeing them run this year.

meriwether

In relation to the King George, I quite like the look of Grand Crus for that. We know he acts at Kempton, having danced home in the Feltham last year. I also really don’t fancy him for the Gold Cup, and I sense the Paddy Power and the KG could be his prime targets this season.

I don’t know how he will do in the PP off 157, but IIRC Long Run ran and didn’t win off a similar mark 2 years ago before he did the KG and Gold cup, so a reasonable effort in defeat wouldn’t completely dissuade me from backing him for the KG.

In relation to Long Run, if he can get back to his best, he should win everything this year, but is he? I wonder if it’s a bit of a cliché regarding French breds and their career ending earlier than Irish/British breds, or is it a reasonable variable to take into regard? On one hand it didn’t affect Kauto, but on the other hand, was it evident in Masterminded?

hucklebuck

King George entries:

http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?hlid=529873&lid=&raceid=&title=Long+leads+George+possibles&ref=atrPA+Racing+Feed&nav=&sub=&day=Wed

It could be a hell of a race, some serious horses mentioned.

Harry Angstrom

hucklebuck wrote: »

King George entries:

http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?hlid=529873&lid=&raceid=&title=Long+leads+George+possibles&ref=atrPA+Racing+Feed&nav=&sub=&day=Wed

It could be a hell of a race, some serious horses mentioned.

I'd love to see Sizing Europe being given the chance to run in this year's King George. If there's ever a race where he might get the 3 miles, this is it.

mdwexford

hucklebuck wrote: »

Sir Des Champs is nothing more than a decent prospect at this stage and he needs to improve at least a stone on what he has done to be classed as rock solid. He is also a french horse rising 7 so he might not have much improvement left in him.

There are two proven top class three milers in the market both with big question marks, Imperial Commander must come back having lost no more than 10lbs ability to win and there are massive question marks over Long Run after last year. It might be an odd comment for a horse rising 8 but I think he cut the figure of a broken horse. His gold cup run was terrible, he must have run 20lbs below his rating.

I would not be touching either Sir Des Champs or Long Run until seeing them run this year.

Hes a decent prospect in the same way Denman was a decent prospect.
It is plainly obvious he is going to be a 170+ horse this season.
For Non Stop franked his festival run with his Old Roan demolition last week as well.

Imperial Commander is gone in my eyes, stupid to even bring him back.

Bobs Worth was the other rock solid horse I was talking about and has Gold Cup written all over him.

Long Run wasnt at his best all last season and it is taking a gamble backing him for anything at this stage.

Id much rather the two younger horses than the two Gold Cup winners.

Harry Angstrom

mdwexford wrote: »

Bobs Worth was the other rock solid horse I was talking about and has Gold Cup written all over him.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Bob's Worth in action this year. He's had 4 runs at Cheltenham in his career, winning all 4 starts including a 2L victory over Rock On Ruby in his novice hurdle days. He's never been beaten going left-handed either.

manafana

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to seeing Bob's Worth in action this year. He's had 4 runs at Cheltenham in his career, winning all 4 starts including a 2L victory over Rock On Ruby in his novice hurdle days. He's never been beaten going left-handed either.

bobs worth had a close run with cue card previously which was nice piece of form i like both horses.

hucklebuck

mdwexford wrote: »

Hes a decent prospect in the same way Denman was a decent prospect.
It is plainly obvious he is going to be a 170+ horse this season.

You mentioned rock solid horses for the gold cup, he needs to improve.

For the Gold Cup I would class a 10 length winner of the RSA as a better prospect than a 5 length winner of a jewson.

Of the two and if I had to bet, Bobs Worth would carry my money at this stage.

If Imperial Commander was mine I would want to run him again, Gold Cup contenders don't come around too often. A lot of people thought Pipe was mad bringing Well Chief back after two years and he only found Masterminded too good.

mdwexford

hucklebuck wrote: »

You mentioned rock solid horses for the gold cup, he needs to improve.

For the Gold Cup I would class a 10 length winner of the RSA as a better prospect than a 5 length winner of a jewson.

Of the two and if I had to bet, Bobs Worth would carry my money at this stage.

If Imperial Commander was mine I would want to run him again, Gold Cup contenders don't come around too often. A lot of people thought Pipe was mad bringing Well Chief back after two years and he only found Masterminded too good.

He hasnt been all out winning and the improvement is clearly there. Technically I guess you are right but he is deserving of his place at the top of the market imo.

Obviously but you get my point.

He would probably get mine also but SDC is more likely to be a world beater and should be more versatile than BW also who looks a Cheltenham specialist.

Was never a fan of IC and am certainly not a fan of that twit Nigel TD but if he couldnt strike a blow in 2011 he certainly wont in 2013.

hucklebuck

mdwexford wrote: »

He hasnt been all out winning and the improvement is clearly there. Technically I guess you are right but he is deserving of his place at the top of the market imo.

Obviously but you get my point.

He would probably get mine also but SDC is more likely to be a world beater and should be more versatile than BW also who looks a Cheltenham specialist.

Was never a fan of IC and am certainly not a fan of that twit Nigel TD but if he couldnt strike a blow in 2011 he certainly wont in 2013.

I get your point alright but mine was from a proven top notch three miler point of view.

In relation to IC you are being ultra harsh and it must be because of your view on NTD. I cant look at the replay of 2011 at the moment but off memory IC had moved through the field to take closer order at the top of the hill but chested the fence and disappeared out the back almost immediately, he was found to have burst a blood vessel and has been out of action since.

hucklebuck

Watched the 2011 GC again there, Imperial and Kauto came to the fence at the top of the hill together and Brennan did well to sit given the clout he hit it, at the bottom of the hill he was about 10l behind Kauto.

First time I watched it since as it sickened me, had Imperial and Denman ew and Long Run clouted a few early on. When Imperial clattered the 4th last I figured Kauto and Denman were going to leave Long Run in the ha'penny place as hitting the fences must have affected him but not a bit of it.

It was fantastic hearing the huge roar as Denman and Kauto turned in neck and neck, this year wont be the same without them

RichieLawlor

I think you will see a different Long Run this year than last, horses just don't retain Gold Cups. It's leaves a serious mark winning that. God knows how Best Mate won 3 in a row, probably what killed him in the end.

Iirc WPM wanted to run SDC in the RSA but Gigginstown told him to run in the Jewson because Mouse dug his heels in and wanted to run his horse in the RSA. I think SDC has the more scope to be a superstar than Bobs Worth.

Grand Crus didn't dance home in the Feltham at all last year, he was dead on his feet on the run in, it's just the two boats behind him haven't got a turn of foot between them and were just plodding on aswell.

rossom

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I think you will see a different Long Run this year than last, horses just don't retain Gold Cups. It's leaves a serious mark winning that. God knows how Best Mate won 3 in a row, probably what killed him in the end.

Iirc WPM wanted to run SDC in the RSA but Gigginstown told him to run in the Jewson because Mouse dug his heels in and wanted to run his horse in the RSA. I think SDC has the more scope to be a superstar than Bobs Worth.

Grand Crus didn't dance home in the Feltham at all last year, he was dead on his feet on the run in, it's just the two boats behind him haven't got a turn of foot between them and were just plodding on aswell.

I'm not saying its impossible but I really think Long Run will never be the same horse as he was when winning the Gold Cup in 2011. He's a horse I've never really liked (a lot of that is down to SWC) and I'll certainly be looking to oppose him in the King George and every time after until he looks like the horse of 2 years ago.

Colonel Sanders

Some decent racing this weekend. Flemenstar goes Sunday. Really good novice chase at Wincanton, balder success goes in the elite hurdle. Teelin Star goes in another Beginners Chase. Texas Jack against him.

As per usual its hard to put into words how retarded some of the sportinglife betting forecasts are, especially on the Irish cards

Nulty

Sure I would have found out sooner or later but thanks for the heads up on Flemenstar.

Ray Mond

Can't wait to see flemenstar and voler la vadette... Prob be **** prices

ste2010

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

... Texas Jack against him.

I thought you were finished with texas Jack :pac:

ste2010

When is VLV racing?

UrbanSea

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Some decent racing this weekend. Flemenstar goes Sunday. Really good novice chase at Wincanton, balder success goes in the elite hurdle. Teelin Star goes in another Beginners Chase. Texas Jack against him.

As per usual its hard to put into words how retarded some of the sportinglife betting forecasts are, especially on the Irish cards

Some of them are so ridiculous it beggars belief.

hucklebuck

http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?hlid=529927&lid=&raceid=&title=Commander+on+course+for+Haydock&ref=atrPA+Racing+Feed&nav=home&sub=&day=Fri

Great news

hucklebuck

Really looking forward to Flemenstar and Zarkandar this weekend.

FYI Nicholls put Zarkandar up as the horse from his yard in One Jump Ahead, he also said how well he ran in Champ Hurdle given the virus he had. Could be a lot to come...

Colonel Sanders

ste2010 wrote: »

I thought you were finished with texas Jack :pac:

Oh I have but at least there'll be some opposition to Teelin Star. Think The Westerner Boy goes too

Colonel Sanders

Champagne Fever entered in both the Royal Bond & The Drinmore

Still not decided whether he goes chasing so!

Huntley

Pretty confident Grandouet wins the Champion Hurdle if he is sound.

Harry Angstrom

Anyone else think Flemenstar will be more of a Ryanair horse than a Gold Cup horse? I know his trainer is fairly adamant he'll get the Gold Cup trip but I think he'll be more effective over a shorter trip.

Goldcupfav

I think Big Zeb is worth a punt at 5/1 tomorrow. Flemenstar needed his run first time out last year on this card and is to short a price for my liking. Zeb goes best fresh and loves it around Navan.

Goldcupfav

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Anyone else think Flemenstar will be more of a Ryanair horse than a Gold Cup horse? I know his trainer is fairly adamant he'll get the Gold Cup trip but I think he'll be more effective over a shorter trip.

Yeah think he'd win the Ryanair if aimed for it. But got to have a go in the Lexus at xmas then see if Flemenstar gets the trip. If he doesnt then can always have the Ryanair as plan B.

Baggio1

goldcupfave - well said

yeah flemenstar has options,, but for ME ,, he's a new Imperial Call quick enough over 2.5miles and gets 3+ maybe i'm wrong but he gives me that vibe,, i luuuv a stayer who has gears at the end of 3miles + and the speed to do 2miles etc, Imperial Call was the best i seen for years from here in that way and I have that feeling about flemenstar

ste2010

Why is there no 2m 5f non handicap hurdle in Cheltenham. Like the next step after the Neptune for non chasers

Harry Angstrom

ste2010 wrote: »

Why is there no 2m 5f non handicap hurdle in Cheltenham. Like the next step after the Neptune for non chasers

We don't need any more new conditions races at Cheltenham. A 2m 5f hurdle race would only see the best staying hurdlers avoiding each other, just like the best staying novice hurdlers avoid each other by either running in the Neptune Investments or the Albert Bartlett.

ste2010

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

We don't need any more new conditions races at Cheltenham. A 2m 5f hurdle race would only see the best staying hurdlers avoiding each other, just like the best staying novice hurdlers avoid each other by either running in the Neptune Investments or the Albert Bartlett.

Good point...next question

Why is there no champions day on another race course than cheltenham like they have for the flat...the answer is prob they want to milk it but imagine the equivalent all on one day

Champion hurdle
Champion chase
Ryanair
RSA
World hurdle
Mares hurdle
Gold Cup

hucklebuck

They should try him in The Lexus alright, not sure he will get 3 miles though.

mailburner

the sky is the limit for flemenstar
cant wait to see where he goes next

hucklebuck

He did that very well alright

NaiveMelodies

Excellent reappearance, praying Casey picks the right route for him. If it mean's waiting till a GC appearance in 2014 then so be it.

meriwether

ste2010 wrote: »

Good point...next question

Why is there no champions day on another race course than cheltenham like they have for the flat...the answer is prob they want to milk it but imagine the equivalent all on one day

Champion hurdle
Champion chase
Ryanair
RSA
World hurdle
Mares hurdle
Gold Cup

Thats far, far too much in one day. I was at the festival the year Wednesday was cancelled - those races were over the Thursday and Friday and it was exhausting.

This year in the Arc, they had 7 grade ones on Sunday, and none on Saturday, which is similarly badly balanced.

The top quaololity races in Cheltenham sould be dispersed equally over 3 days, i.e. reduce a day from the current 4.

We need to cut about 7 races, so I suggest we can cull from the bumper, mares race, Jewson, cross country, Albert Bartlett, and any other handicap - William Hill, Johnny Henderson, Martin Pipe, Vincent O'Brien, etc.

Keep it:

Supreme, Arkle, Champion H, 3/4 others

RSA, Neptune, Champion chase, 3/4 others

Gold cup, World Hurdle, Triumph, 3/4 others.

Baggio1

watched Flemenstar last night,,, class act, kept a good quick pace going at his ease.... my kind of horse for sure.... i just have that feeling that HE will be the one (luck and health allowing of course!) this year for great things.

ste2010

meriwether wrote: »

Thats far, far too much in one day. I was at the festival the year Wednesday was cancelled - those races were over the Thursday and Friday and it was exhausting.

This year in the Arc, they had 7 grade ones on Sunday, and none on Saturday, which is similarly badly balanced.

The top quaololity races in Cheltenham sould be dispersed equally over 3 days, i.e. reduce a day from the current 4.

We need to cut about 7 races, so I suggest we can cull from the bumper, mares race, Jewson, cross country, Albert Bartlett, and any other handicap - William Hill, Johnny Henderson, Martin Pipe, Vincent O'Brien, etc.

Keep it:

Supreme, Arkle, Champion H, 3/4 others

RSA, Neptune, Champion chase, 3/4 others

Gold cup, World Hurdle, Triumph, 3/4 others.

I take your point merriweather. I was referring to it as a day separate to Cheltenham in some other race course. Maybe in January. Of Cheltenham to be honest I'm happy with the four days as opposed to 3..an extra day to be excited about :-) I'm not a fan of the handicaps so I have to agree on that front...

Are you friends with Calvin harris?