Gardaí: Do ye feel respected?

MagicSean

realies wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056763511

People wonder why some people hate the Garda. They wonder why people don’t respect the Garda.All I can say is that some garda and there supporters here making comments like the ones above in a public forum dont do there force any favors. How a Garda behaves in online forums and the words they choose can be amplified and magnified.

As much as some of these comments made by Garda are offensive, just the overall tone of some of then comments like this troubles me. Referring to shooting dead of a man in front of his children as

No loss to society/Well played, karma/His solictor and barristor as crying...(ridioulous post)/ swimming with sharks...

Just goes to show me that much of the hatred towards the Garda (and I witness lots of it from where I work)is due at least in part to the attitudes that comes from the Garda themselves,

What goes around comes around right.

That man killed two people and now he has been killed. What goes around comes around.

bill buchanan

MagicSean wrote: »

That man killed two people and now he has been killed. What goes around comes around.

It's still very unprofessional, though. Having said that, I doubt any of the people making those comments were police.

Esel

MagicSean wrote: »

That man killed two people and now he has been killed. What goes around comes around.

I feel I will probably get flak for this post, but anyway...

1. The guy was a passenger in the car that collided with the patrol car, not the driver. It is a (possibly understandable) stretch of the imagination to state that he 'killed two people'.

2. The patrol car was stopped broadside in the hard shoulder when the stolen car crashed into it (this from memory of newspaper articles at the time). The Garda driver was found on autopsy to have 2.5 times the legal limit of alcohol in his blood. This may well have affected his judgement in deciding to position the car where he did.

I remember thinking at the time (before the alcohol issue was publicised) that it was not wise of the two members to remain in the patrol car if it was being used as a barrier.

Back on topic: Generally, as a citizen, I do respect the Gardaí.

Iwannahurl

Zambia wrote: »

I find most people who have an issue with police its because they are doing something they should not be under law.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "have an issue with" AGS?

0325422

Esel wrote: »

I feel I will probably get flak for this post, but anyway...

1. The guy was a passenger in the car that collided with the patrol car, not the driver. It is a (possibly understandable) stretch of the imagination to state that he 'killed two people'.

2. The patrol car was stopped broadside in the hard shoulder when the stolen car crashed into it (this from memory of newspaper articles at the time). The Garda driver was found on autopsy to have 2.5 times the legal limit of alcohol in his blood. This may well have affected his judgement in deciding to position the car where he did.

I remember thinking at the time (before the alcohol issue was publicised) that it was not wise of the two members to remain in the patrol car if it was being used as a barrier.

Back on topic: Generally, as a citizen, I do respect the Gardaí.

Without getting too personal if he crashed into your mother, father, husband, wife or kids would you consider it a stretch of the imagination to state that he killed two people or would you accept that your family member parked in the wrong place

limklad

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

I used always say hi to guards when I passed them, particularly at night, but having got no response from practically all of them I gave up. There are good guards and bad guards, like in all professions, its just we always seem to meet the bad ones most

I know quite a number of Gardai and like a previous poster, There are good ones and bad ones.
When I was a kid cycling to school, some gardai bring trouble on us and others like the Sargent wants us to be law abiding and show us the errors of our ways by keep us on the right side of the law without that intimation voice that certain gardai have. That been said it not though we were causing trouble far from it, by todays standards we were amongst the quietest kids in the country. It was usually our ignorance of the road traffic violations that certain gardai bring trouble on us rather than points us in the right direction like the Sargent.

As An Adult, yes I know quite a few gardai, Most of them are sound, others are right pricks with power gone to their heads, even to other members of the gardai. All similar personalities to people in the country. Most are sound others are Nutters or trouble makers both to other gardai as well as the general population destroying the reputation of the Gardai. The Trouble makers in the Gardai used their power to move people on do abuse that power just so they can feel powerful and have complete contempt for the ordinary people.

As the saying goes Absolute power corrupts

The Movie "The Guard" is a classic example of the nutters and trouble makers (power hungry) who are in the Gardai, who brings the rest into disrepute when they site idly by in fear for their own positions.

I would love to have members of the public the power to attend and question Senior (Sargent up) Gardai in Local Council meetings. It would bring better Accountability of the Senior members to raise the standard of the Gardai.
It would also bring Members closer to the community that they serve rather have the disrespect of the community and public at large. It would also open the door for concerns that members of the gardai have to express to the public in general rather have a bad temper about issues.

To me Respect is a two way street.

Iwannahurl

limklad wrote: »

I would love to have members of the public the power to attend and question Senior (Sargent up) Gardai in Local Council meetings. It would bring better Accountability of the Senior members to raise the standard of the Gardai.
It would also bring Members closer to the community that they serve rather have the disrespect of the community and public at large. It would also open the door for concerns that members of the gardai have to express to the public in general rather have a bad temper about issues.

To me Respect is a two way street.

Congratulations, you've just invented Joint Policing Committees.

JPCs are part of the accountability, oversight and consultative structures set up under the Garda Síochána Act 2005. The Garda Ombudsman and Garda Inspectorate are major components of that reform and modernisation process.

I'll take an educated guess and assume you're based in Limerick. If that's the case then you have a JPC in your locality, and my personal recommendation, FWIW, is to engage with it if you feel strongly enough about issues in your community. The chair of the Limerick JPC is Cllr Michael Hourigan.

As long as you don't expect too much from JPCs they're worth engaging with, IMHO. The elected members like to get headlines, the community members can be lacking in power, and the Garda stats can be boring. But it's a public forum where you can make your voice heard, if you use the proper channels.

Respect is indeed a two-way street.

limklad

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Congratulations, you've just invented Joint Policing Committees.

JPCs are part of the accountability, oversight and consultative structures set up under the Garda Síochána Act 2005. The Garda Ombudsman and Garda Inspectorate are major components of that reform and modernisation process.

I'll take an educated guess and assume you're based in Limerick. If that's the case then you have a JPC in your locality, and my personal recommendation, FWIW, is to engage with it if you feel strongly enough about issues in your community. The chair of the Limerick JPC is Cllr Michael Hourigan.

As long as you don't expect too much from JPCs they're worth engaging with, IMHO. The elected members like to get headlines, the community members can be lacking in power, and the Garda stats can be boring. But it's a public forum where you can make your voice heard, if you use the proper channels.

Respect is indeed a two-way street.

the last time I hear the comment "Respect is indeed a two-way street." from a member of the Gardai, immediately told that member of the public he engage in a argument with, he responded that comment and to added to it with "F*ck off now, clear the area"

I already know about those committees JPC and there have already been much contact been the Local authorities and the Gardai for many decades before that. The Communities do not really have a say. Most communities treat Local Council Politicians as stepping stone to the Dail and Local Politicians can only get anything done with the help of the Local TD. Local Politicians from from the point of view in the eyes of the communities are looking for junkets and looking after their own interests, which is unfair to many of them. If people actually believe they have a say, they will use it otherwise is more "F*ck off comments".

The way the Local authorities set it is very little accountability to the Local Politicians, never mind the accountability to the Local Communities. There is a huge disconnected there, despite many good efforts from the Local authorities members. The system is not setup that way. There is very little good Local Politicians can get done, no matter how much they try unless they are tied to TD's to help them.

I want the public to be part of JPL and to be able to question Gardai themselves to get rid of many misconceptions and to be able to cross examination a gardai with the threat of "Breach of the Peace" speech. To be honest community Gardai are becoming a Joke especially in rural area, they are stretch at the best of times. Gardai cars are less and less and not replaced. The joke in certain areas is you call a garda for domestic Violence dispute and they call around 3 Months later when the situation has been resolved, have a peaceful protest and you have an army of them.

Neighbourhood Watch was a great idea when it was first introduce where the Locals got to know the Local Gardai and vica versa and it got rid of any mis conceptions, but in reality is fizzled to nothing in the last decade in loads of areas and only practical existing in name only, with attempted relaunched but in reality which tends to die out, especially when they find out how little actual support there is no matter how much lip service there is. Those areas who do have active neighbour watches believe there is no difference between non-neighbourhood watch areas and neighbourhood watch areas. Many in the Communities want Gardai they know and trust. They last thing they want is some Garda look for excuse to fine them for some breach, in a pretence to be there to protect them. It is one thing the Garda pointing out that you are in breach and go sort that out without a demeaning voice. Most people do not know the Law and their rights which put them at a disadvantage and are fearful of Crime elements at one side and gardai looking to punish them on the other and that the impression I am finding.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=75

• To improve community safety
• To prevent crime
• To develop Garda and community links
• To increase public confidence in An Garda Síochána
• To foster a caring environment for older and vulnerable people
• To reduce anti-social behaviour, including graffiti and harassment

I asked my Grandmother last year who lives in the country one question, can you name the Local gardai in the area. She could not name one. Up to 15 years ago, she could name them all in the whole district for all her life. I ask the same question to my Uncles and Aunts, they could not answer except one who could only name 2 who were known trouble maker guards. I was shocked how little they knew the gardai. It is true that Trouble makers guards who wants to punish are more known than good gardai who can help steer people to the right side of the law.

In Dungarvan where a cousin of mine lived said they had to relaunch a Neighbourhood watch. There was mixed responses to it. There is scepticism about it with all the cut backs in the gardai. Time will tell if it will work.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfgbqlmhsnau/rss2/
I think one aspect in the Community Alert or Neighbour Watch is it says in the booklet: Community Alert does not require frequent meetings. for some It would be great if they know that the Community Alert committee is actually watching out and there is updated about neighbourly neighbours and have some information about unusual callers it will come up in the meeting where they can talk about it where they are unsure if they need to report the incident to the gardai. they believe if there is too many innocent reasons that the gardai thing they are always crying wolf and be promptly ignored. The regular Neighbourhood meeting once a month would help to get rid of unnecessary fears and may need advice about certain issues.

My aunt who regularly for most of her life had good passing friendship with members of the Gardai, found that they are becoming more isolated and then correct herself, more ignorant and do not even have the respect to response to a simple hello, or good evening, not even a smile. "All they want to do is check the driving licence, Tax, Insurance, NCT, trying to put me on the wrong side of the Law" she says.

I was at my grandmother when my cousin mention about the relaunch of the neighbour watch in Dungarvan, When my aunt heard the comments about that "all parties need to engage with each other in a positive and meaningful way" she laughs and said I hope he telling his own people that, A relaunch would not be necessary if they were doing what he preach. she comment about one a few years ago. she tried to befriend out of respect while waiting for the rain to stop and try to get to know them again and felt he was trying to interrogate her and did not attempt to speak to her like ordinary strangers talk to each other. She promptly withdrew. She said she was not trying to drag any Crime information from him, just a basic conversation about every day things and complain about the mess the Politicians got us into. I told her that was what she did wrong, she mentioned the word "Politicians" as a joke, she took that more seriously, If that the case I will complain to the Politicians about the Gardai and themselves at the next election. My Grandmother laugh and my Aunt was confused why she laugh.

If a gardai are not approachable how do they expect people to come forward to, with trust in them, Many are frightened and do not know the system, when crime show up near or at their doorstep, many are under the impression, I have to keep my mouth shut or else the perpetrators of the crime will target them, because they think the gardai do not care enough or not able to protect them or punished them, if gardai think I have breach the law, I will get punished. It is becoming a sad reality in Ordinary people lives is either in fear, don't care, or insult or disrepect members of the gardai because of lack of engagement. It all more stick from Gardai that these members of the communities are afraid off.

It easy to build up walls and isolate ourselves and many of us have done that especially during the Celtic tiger . It easy be alone while surround by many people with busy lives and build up resentment and anger and fears especially in this deep recession, so A simple smile and hello or good morning etc can goes a long way to help reduce that while still be in a good humour and keep a professional manner.

tayto lover

I come from a border area and have great respect for the Garda who did great work here during "the troubles". Even when members of our "patriotic front" visited shops and garages and threatened the owners not to serve the Garda "or else", they continued to do their job. Those times seem to be forgotten now and they seem to be a target for every crank who got a speeding ticket or a ticking off.
The trouble in this area and i'd safely say in many urban areas is that the Garda do not live in the areas they police. I think they need to live where they work as they then experience the problems in an area and can deal with them better. A problem does not seem important if after you finish work you can drive away and leave it behind you.

limklad

tayto lover wrote: »

I come from a border area and have great respect for the Garda who did great work here during "the troubles". Even when members of our "patriotic front" visited shops and garages and threatened the owners not to serve the Garda "or else", they continued to do their job. Those times seem to be forgotten now and they seem to be a target for every crank who got a speeding ticket or a ticking off.
The trouble in this area and i'd safely say in many urban areas is that the Garda do not live in the areas they police. I think they need to live where they work as they then experience the problems in an area and can deal with them better. A problem does not seem important if after you finish work you can drive away and leave it behind you.

I do not know any gardai who patrol my area, they are a complete mystery to me and could not pick them out in a line up. I rarely see them and they rarely patrol on foot, It all driving around, over the years I know plenty who patrol other others areas from basic Social and Sports events. I never ever ask them to about any ongoing investigations as I do not want them put their jobs at risk. I have no problems discussing past events or the usually topics and complaints in life, they are part of the community and that the way to have it. Everybody in life have their stresses and pressures.

tayto lover

limklad wrote: »

I do not know any gardai who patrol my area, they are a complete mystery to me and could not pick them out in a line up. I rarely see them and they rarely patrol on foot, It all driving around, over the years I know plenty who patrol other others areas from basic Social and Sports events. I never ever ask them to about any ongoing investigations as I do not want them put their jobs at risk. I have no problems discussing past events or the usually topics and complaints in life, they are part of the community and that the way to have it. Everybody in life have their stresses and pressures.

The Garda should have a policy of being on the ground and not always driving around in cars. On the ground people will stop and talk to them, ask them advice and tell them if they have seen suspicious activity in their area. It should be about "local knowledge" as it used to be called. Being visible, walking through shopping centres, calling into shops and businesses and giving advice, visiting schools and youth clubs, sports grounds, OAP meetings etc etc. Letting people get to know their face and about being approachable and helpful. Yet on here I have seen posters complain about Gardai drinking tea in establishments, helping to jump start a man's car and attending a football match. It just doesn't make sense for them not to do those things. AND I think a Garda should have to spend a minimum of 3 years in a place before he is allowed to move on for the above reasons.

Zambia

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "have an issue with" AGS?

A bloke who has lost his job and licence due to a drink driving conviction often has no love for his informant.

Generally nobody likes to be corrected.

Iwannahurl

Zambia wrote: »

A bloke who has lost his job and licence due to a drink driving conviction often has no love for his informant.

Generally nobody likes to be corrected.

Is that a specific example, and does "have an issue" in this context mean to hold a grudge? Your original comment in that regard seemed a bit more sweeping in its generalisation that "most people who have an issue with police" have been doing something illegal:

Zambia wrote: »

I find most people who have an issue with police its because they are doing something they should not be under law.

Iwannahurl

tayto lover wrote: »

Yet on here I have seen posters complain about Gardai drinking tea in establishments, helping to jump start a man's car and attending a football match. It just doesn't make sense for them not to do those things.

Would it make sense for them to do those things instead of enforcing the law, given that enforcement might not be as popular with the punters, motorists and football fans?

.

msg11

I have respect for Garda that give me respect in the process, actually it's how I work with respect in general. Give some you get some.

limklad

tayto lover wrote: »

The Garda should have a policy of being on the ground and not always driving around in cars. On the ground people will stop and talk to them, ask them advice and tell them if they have seen suspicious activity in their area. It should be about "local knowledge" as it used to be called. Being visible, walking through shopping centres, calling into shops and businesses and giving advice, visiting schools and youth clubs, sports grounds, OAP meetings etc etc. Letting people get to know their face and about being approachable and helpful. Yet on here I have seen posters complain about Gardai drinking tea in establishments, helping to jump start a man's car and attending a football match. It just doesn't make sense for them not to do those things. AND I think a Garda should have to spend a minimum of 3 years in a place before he is allowed to move on for the above reasons.

There are some very good gardai who do this only when other pressures are off them. Then there others who are out right ignorant , don't care, just do the shift while others who are power hungry throwing their weight around and looking to get as many fines and breaches of the law to get them selves look good to superiors for promotions or trying to get the right move to areas that gives them the most likely chance of promotion. It also backfires when the right superior knows what they are trying to do or when their actions could step on the superiors toes or arse. It is sad but it all politics & Economics in the Garda station for a long time now.

Also with resource cutting back due to budget restraints, Gardai in remote areas are been reassigned or not replaced, vehicles out of commission and not replaced, gardai stations in poor conditions, poor heated and plenty of damp, all which opens the door to crime in non-policed areas despite what the rhetoric from the Government and the Heads of the Gardai. All these pressures is added because people want better policing and these pressures in addition to Normal Crime prevention and crime detection & investigation are making good gardai more temperamental, due to anger, back stabbing, betrayal etc, Just like politics in the Dail, Local councils and the GAA etc where individuals is looking selfishly looking after themselves or people they call "good or connected people" which screws and betrays everybody else.

The worst comment of abuse of power is exemplified by this saying which is inherent in everyday life.

Do what I say and not what I do

Members of the gardai are no different from the community as they are from various communities. I expect the best from the Gardai and want them to be profession at all times and I consider the Position to be honour bound at all times and be always in good stead, correct their mistakes and put their hands up when they do and acknowledge it and move on.

Everybody make mistakes, the thing is what you do after that which concern me if you are honourable or not.

tayto lover

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Would it make sense for them to do those things instead of enforcing the law, given that enforcement might not be as popular with the punters, motorists and football fans?

.

Yes it would make sense. There should be more to Garda work than summonsing people and issuing tickets. Many young people should have the benefits of a Garda presence and advice to help them stay on the straight and narrow and many elderly people would like a visit and have a wee cup of tea with their community Garda. I saw a thread recently about an Open Day in a Dublin station where young and old can call in and see how the operation works. I attended one of those in Dundalk station years ago and it was brilliant.

Prevention is better than crime as they say.

limklad

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes it would make sense. There should be more to Garda work than summonsing people and issuing tickets. Many young people should have the benefits of a Garda presence and advice to help them stay on the straight and narrow and many elderly people would like a visit and have a wee cup of tea with their community Garda. I saw a thread recently about an Open Day in a Dublin station where young and old can call in and see how the operation works. I attended one of those in Dundalk station years ago and it was brilliant.

Prevention is better than crime as they say.

Open Days like this is great. It a pity there is not more especially for young teenager students in getting an understanding what a garda does, the levels of the Gardai and what involved in their Job.

There lots of things I believe that Schools education lack about our country, such as open Days for Courts, Councils, fire stations and how government work and it agencies work. All this vital information for citizens helps to clear mis conceptions that even persist even at new TD level. When I hear Certain TD speak I can see how knowledgeable they are or lack of it when talking about the Public Finances and the working of the state agencies. The worst thing of all how the incorrect facts is passed on to others.

It strange that those who get themselves into trouble know more about the Gardai and those who do not. Those who do not know the Gardai are full of miss comprehension about the inner workings of the Gardai, the problems they face, they type of conditions they experience.

On Saturday 9th 2010 I join Dublin City Council Walk & Talk for the "Dublin's Hall of Justice" which is free which included the Four Courts and the New Criminal Court building at Parkgate St near the Phoenix Park.
http://www.dublincity.ie/Press/PressReleases/PR2010/pressreleasesoctober2010/Pages/LetsWalkandTalkDublinsHallsofJusticeOldmeetsNew.aspx

It was far more interesting that the New letter says. I never walked into a court room before, and I was impressed about the quality of the talks and relax manner of every body involved including the former Chief Justice who gave a good talk with good humour. All I say is well done to Dublin City Council and the Court Service and hope they have many more open Days like this.

I do wish it could be revived and to include the Gardai, presidential, government and council buildings to explain how our Government works and our Law system and how democracy is used within the system and especially who does what work.

It would also be great for Tourism as well as educate the public who are ignorant of how the system actual work here in Ireland than how they perceived it working.

Iwannahurl

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes it would make sense. There should be more to Garda work than summonsing people and issuing tickets. Many young people should have the benefits of a Garda presence and advice to help them stay on the straight and narrow and many elderly people would like a visit and have a wee cup of tea with their community Garda. I saw a thread recently about an Open Day in a Dublin station where young and old can call in and see how the operation works. I attended one of those in Dundalk station years ago and it was brilliant.

Prevention is better than crime as they say.

Sounds kind of like social workers, health visitors or some such. We already have a highly expensive HSE.

If we are to employ more public servants for such purposes, why the need for police training and legal powers of enforcement and arrest?

EDIT: to clarify, what I am referring to here is the nature and extent of such 'social' work, particular if it replaces law enforcement. I think the work of, for example, AGS youth diversion programmes and the JLOs is admirable and essential.

starshine1234

I have no respect for Guards.

Too corrupt, too violent, too thuggish, too insular.

Pricks, the lot of them.

starshine1234

starshine1234 wrote: »

I have no respect for Guards.

Too corrupt, too violent, too thuggish, too insular.

Pricks, the lot of them.

That's just ruined my day.

CharlieCroker

starshine1234 wrote: »

I have no respect for Guards.

Too corrupt, too violent, too thuggish, too insular.

Pricks, the lot of them.

Thank God you shared your opinion 4 years later!!!

Saipanne

I've known a few lads who joined the Gards. Without exception, it all went to their heads. Power indeed corrupts.

Blacktie.

Saipanne wrote: »

I've known a few lads who joined the Gards. Without exception, it all went to their heads. Power indeed corrupts.

I've also known a few lads who joined the guards. Still sound and not power mad.

Strange how anecdotal evidence works like that isn't it :rolleyes:

Saipanne

Blacktie. wrote: »

I've also known a few lads who joined the guards. Still sound and not power mad.

Strange how anecdotal evidence works like that isn't it :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I enhanced your post there. Can never have enough rolling eyes.

OldNotWIse

I respect them, and anyone who deals with the public on a daily basis tbh, and it annoys me that there is so much negativity towards them and so many people who hate them for the sake of it. That said, and of course this is anecdotal because I have never had any bad experiences, I have heard of power trippy issues from many people i.e. if they even think you're being cheeky or smart or not bowing down you'll have the book thrown at you so to speak. Perhaps this attitude is because of what they have to put up with? Is it a chicken and egg thing?

Edit: I will say that I kind of lost some respect for them a number of years back when my parents were nearly killed by joyrider scumbags and the guards knew who the culprits were but didn't bother to do anything about it. Something about their mother being a nice woman and already having one jailbird son. Then again, that's not representative of the entire force.

starshine1234

I believe the negativity is causd by the tendency of the Gardai to engage in tit-for-tat professionalism.

If you call a guard a bad name, he then refuses to act in a professional way. That is wrong.

The guard should be professional at all times. That is the oath he swore.

I agree that it is not easy to be continually mis-treated and to take it on the chin. But the guards are supposed to.

I believe that ireland is unique in the abuse the gardai take. I can't imagine it happening in other countries.

Perhaps our justice system is to blame.
If people mistreat the guards they should be prosecuted. If that doesn't happen, or if it can't happen, then perhaps the guards get dis-illusioned and then the guards start to act in a tit-for-tat manner.


I have met guards who are immediately obnoxious. They are rude, and short, and gruff. I will act in a tit-for-tat way and the difference is that I'm not being paid to do a job, I'm not calling myself a professional, and I didn't swear an oath.

Gardai in this country are very unprofessional. They also do silly things like engage in illegal evictions to help their friends and stuff like that. That doesn't make it easy for people to respect them.

The constant corruption is also a problem, and it's a sufficient reason by itself to dislike the guards.

The flying mouse

Some Garda are idiots and abuse there power but I would say most are not, Just like the general public really, Most are lawabiding some are not.

HeidiHeidi

starshine1234 wrote: »

I believe the negativity is causd by the tendency of the Gardai to engage in tit-for-tat professionalism.

If you call a guard a bad name, he then refuses to act in a professional way. That is wrong.

The guard should be professional at all times. That is the oath he swore.

I agree that it is not easy to be continually mis-treated and to take it on the chin. But the guards are supposed to.

I believe that ireland is unique in the abuse the gardai take. I can't imagine it happening in other countries.

Perhaps our justice system is to blame.
If people mistreat the guards they should be prosecuted. If that doesn't happen, or if it can't happen, then perhaps the guards get dis-illusioned and then the guards start to act in a tit-for-tat manner.


I have met guards who are immediately obnoxious. They are rude, and short, and gruff. I will act in a tit-for-tat way and the difference is that I'm not being paid to do a job, I'm not calling myself a professional, and I didn't swear an oath.

Gardai in this country are very unprofessional. They also do silly things like engage in illegal evictions to help their friends and stuff like that. That doesn't make it easy for people to respect them.

The constant corruption is also a problem, and it's a sufficient reason by itself to dislike the guards.

Care to elaborate on this? Bizarre sort of an allegation to throw out willy-nilly......

(actually it's just the most bizarre of quite a few allegations in that post, but the one I'd be most interested in having clarified)

tayto lover

starshine1234 wrote: »

I believe the negativity is causd by the tendency of the Gardai to engage in tit-for-tat professionalism.

If you call a guard a bad name, he then refuses to act in a professional way. That is wrong.

The guard should be professional at all times. That is the oath he swore.

I agree that it is not easy to be continually mis-treated and to take it on the chin. But the guards are supposed to.

I believe that ireland is unique in the abuse the gardai take. I can't imagine it happening in other countries.

Perhaps our justice system is to blame.
If people mistreat the guards they should be prosecuted. If that doesn't happen, or if it can't happen, then perhaps the guards get dis-illusioned and then the guards start to act in a tit-for-tat manner.


I have met guards who are immediately obnoxious. They are rude, and short, and gruff. I will act in a tit-for-tat way and the difference is that I'm not being paid to do a job, I'm not calling myself a professional, and I didn't swear an oath.

Gardai in this country are very unprofessional. They also do silly things like engage in illegal evictions to help their friends and stuff like that. That doesn't make it easy for people to respect them.

The constant corruption is also a problem, and it's a sufficient reason by itself to dislike the guards.

You shouldn't do that to anyone and expect them to respect you for it.
It's childish.

starshine1234

tayto lover wrote: »

You shouldn't do that to anyone and expect them to respect you for it.
It's childish.

Did I say that I expected to be respected?
Did I say that it wasn't childish?


Members of the public may be abusive and childish. Perhaps because of untreated mental illness. I'm not saying that's nice or proper; I'm just saying that that is the way it is.

The guards should accept that instead of acting in a tit-for-tat manner.

The guards are demanding respect, and the guards are claiming that they're professional, and not childish.

That's the difference.

The guards claim to be professional, they are being paid to do a job, and they have sworn an oath.

When they act in childish, petty, vindictive and unprofessinal ways they are letting themselves down, they are letting the force down and they are letting the country down.

It's not correct to compare the behaviour of a guard to the behaviour of a member of the public.

tayto lover

starshine1234 wrote: »

Did I say that I expected to be respected?
Did I say that it wasn't childish?


Members of the public may be abusive and childish. Perhaps because of untreated mental illness. I'm not saying that's nice or proper; I'm just saying that that is the way it is.

The guards should accept that instead of acting in a tit-for-tat manner.

The guards are demanding respect, and the guards are claiming that they're professional, and not childish.

That's the difference.

The guards claim to be professional, they are being paid to do a job, and they have sworn an oath.

When they act in childish, petty, vindictive and unprofessinal ways they are letting themselves down, they are letting the force down and they are letting the country down.

It's not correct to compare the behaviour of a guard to the behaviour of a member of the public.

You might see it differently when you mature a little. Your posts come across as a little childish.

starshine1234

I said.
Gardai in this country are very unprofessional. They also do silly things like engage in illegal evictions to help their friends and stuff like that. That doesn't make it easy for people to respect them.

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Care to elaborate on this? Bizarre sort of an allegation to throw out willy-nilly......

(actually it's just the most bizarre of quite a few allegations in that post, but the one I'd be most interested in having clarified)

Martin Callinan is a SNIP. (Section 20 of the Criminal Justice Act, 2011)

The failure to investigate him, or bring charges against him, demonstrates the unprofessional nature, and the preferential nature of the guards, and of justice, in this country.


The Smithwick report had many negative things to say about the gardai. Response from Gardai; the report is wrong.


45,000 penalty points removed illegally. No charges.

100,000 untaxed tractors. Who decided that that should happen?


Persecution of whistle blowers. Disgrace, and illegal.


Recent eviciton of squatters in Villa Park. No paperwork brought by gardai, instead they bring sledgehammers to break heads. Refusal to follow due process.

Pricks, in other words.

starshine1234

starshine1234 wrote: »

I said.
Gardai in this country are very unprofessional. They also do silly things like engage in illegal evictions to help their friends and stuff like that. That doesn't make it easy for people to respect them.




Martin Callinan is a Snip. (Section 20 of the Criminal Justice Act, 2011)

The failure to investigate him, or bring charges against him, demonstrates the unprofessional nature, and the preferential nature of the guards, and of justice, in this country.


The Smithwick report had many negative things to say about the gardai. Response from Gardai; the report is wrong.


45,000 penalty points removed illegally. No charges.

100,000 untaxed tractors. Who decided that that should happen?


Persecution of whistle blowers. Disgrace, and illegal.


Recent eviciton of squatters in Villa Park. No paperwork brought by gardai, instead they bring sledgehammers to break heads. Refusal to follow due process.

Pricks, in other words.

Did you stray too far from the AH Forum?

starshine1234

Do you support the deliberate non-prosecution of violent criminals?

Blacktie.

starshine1234 wrote:

Do you support the deliberate non-prosecution of violent criminals?

Surely this is the judges fault and not the guards?

starshine1234

No, non-prosecution would be the fault of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), IF a file, containing evidence, had been forwarded to the DPP by the Gardai.

In the case of Martin Callinan, SNIP, the case fails even before then.

Martin is above the law, and no investigation into his clearly criminal and violent acts has ever happened. Martin prevented an investigation into himself. If there's no investigation then there can't be any charges.

His successor, Noirin, was his right hand woman. She has no interest in prosecuting her friend and mentor, so the circle is complete. Martin Callinan, a violent criminal, is above the law.

It's a disgrace, Joe.

Noirin herself may also have committed the same criminal offences as Martin. She's also above the law given that she is the most senior policeman in the country.

Our police force is full of cowards and corrupt assholes.

FGR

starshine1234 wrote: »

Did I say that I expected to be respected?
Did I say that it wasn't childish?

The guards should accept that instead of acting in a tit-for-tat manner.

Our police force is full of cowards and corrupt assholes.

So how should a guard react if someone comes up to their face and calls them a corrupt asshole? A smile and a thank you?

I hate to break it to you but the professional reaction of a police officer would be to stop that person and possibly arrest them for inciting a breach of the peace.

People are entitled to do whatever they want - once it doesn't harm others or the law of the land. Gardaí are people too, oath or not they're entitled to fair treatment regardless of what you think of them.

I'd also hate for you to see what the police in the US, the UK or continental Europe would do if you tried such a thing..

MayoSalmon

Someone mentioned it previous but the younger guards are grand and have a bit of craic, the older ones almost always tend to be thick ***** who seem out to give anybody a hard time etc

Esel

I could well be wrong on this, but I think in the UK if there is just you and the police present, any words you say cannot be construed to be likely to cause a breach of the peace etc. because the officer, as a professional, is expected to stay calm and not react as a member of the public might well do.

Presumably, this not the case in this jurisdiction?

"Ya bandy-legged baxtard, I'll see you in hell - and all belonging to ya."

"Safe home, sir."

starshine1234

FGR wrote: »

So how should a guard react if someone comes up to their face and calls them a corrupt asshole? A smile and a thank you?

I hate to break it to you but the professional reaction of a police officer would be to stop that person and possibly arrest them for inciting a breach of the peace.
...

Are you expecting me to speak for the Guards?
Why would you expect that?
The guards can speak for themselves. Perhaps you should ask them.

I am serious about that.

What do you think the Guards would say?

They can hardly say..
We'll sort such a person out, using violence.
We'll act in petty and unprofessional ways.
We'll refuse to consider his complaint, even if his complaint has merit.

Unfortunately I'm correct. The Guards have no choice but to take it on the chin. Having a negative opinion of the Guards is not a crime, nor is it a valid reason for a Guard to act in obnoxious ways.


The Guards refuse to be professional. Being a professional requires that you treat everyone equally, and that you don't take personal offence at people opinions, even if that opinion is that the police are c**s.

The opinion that police are corrupt is a valid opinion supported by evidence. To not believe in it is to be delusional.

The Guards expect people to ignore the fact that the police are corrupt. Well, I'm sorry but I don't intend to ignore that. I intend to point it out all the time and to refuse to co-operate becuase of it.


I will draw a comparision with nursing. It is not correct for a nurse to refuse to deal with patients that have particular problems.
A nurse can't say,
Well, Johnny, have you been incontinent again?,
Well, I'm not cleaning up after you.

A nurse has to do her job, even if its unpleasent.

The problem here is our society. It's very unequal and it causes people to to act out. Petty assholes like Enda Kenny don't offer leadership, instead they are small minded quisling weaklings that only intend to provide favours to their friends.

If we could only fix politics so that it actually worked. Instead politics and politicians are the problem.

Little CuChulainn

Was this thread resurrected for people with a chip on their shoulder to rant? Don't you have a blog to do that in?

This idea that the Gardaí as an organisation is corrupt is nonsense. There have been Gardaí involved in corruption but in general these people are found out. They don't reflect the organisation as a whole or the other members. An Garda Síochána is probably the most scrutinised organisation in the State, both by state organisations and independent organsiations. GSOC, Internal Affairs, Policing Authhority, Professional Standards, Garda Inspectorate all keep a tight watch on the organisation and its members. What people often claim is corruption is generally just a practice they don't like.

As for professionalism, if Gardaí arrested everyone who swore at them the prisons would have five or six prisoners to a bed. All you have to do is look at the massive amounts of videos posted by Irish Water "protesters". Gardaí standing there while abuse is hurled at them. When Gardaí react in these situations it can always be traced to a physical escalation by the "protesters". Do some Gardaí make mistakes? Of course they do, they're human. Do some lose their temper? Without doubt. Is it a major issue in the force? Not at all. If anything the Gardaí often hold back in situations where any other police forces would wade in.

The biggest issue An Garda Síochána faces as an organisation right now is political interference with management and resources. There isn't an issue with accountability. There are so many checks and balances across the different systems within the organisation that's it's hard enough to do the job, let alone fiddle it.

In general, people who parrot on about corruption in the force have two issues, ignorance and distance. They are ignorant of the law in general and they have no regular interaction with any part of the system they criticise. They rely on third party information and internet experts to make their decisions about how an organisation acts. Some of them will have had a bad encounter with a Garda int he past and have kept hold of that grudge to apply to all members in all situations. All you have to do is look at the FM104 phone show page. Look at the comments under the video of Gardaí searching a travelers house. Barely a clue among them but fully sure of what they they think is right.

starshine1234

You are delusional to deny that corruption exists in the force.

Sure, the last Police Commissioner was a SNIP. He's above the law and won't be prosecuted for his violent crimes. His right hand women succeeded him in the role.

Pathetic.

Judge Smithwick said the police are corrupt and are more interested in their own PR than they are in justice.

45,000 penalty points?

Persecution of whistle blowers?

Mass grave containing 800 bodies. Garda response, refusal to investigate.

Corrupt assholes. They should cop on. They allow themselves to be politicised. Martin Callinan did great favours for Alan Shatter.

Was he forced to act like the thuggish prick that he did?

Little CuChulainn

starshine1234 wrote: »

You are delusional to deny that corruption exists in the force.

Sure, the last Police Commissioner was a SNIP. He's above the law and won't be prosecuted for his violent crimes. His right hand women succeeded him in the role.

Pathetic.

Can you source your "violent criminal" accusation please? It seems wildly defamatory.

starshine1234 wrote: »

Judge Smithwick said the police are corrupt and are more interested in their own PR than they are in justice.

Can you source that quote please?

starshine1234 wrote: »

45,000 penalty points?

The vast majority of which were completely legitimate cancellations. Like I said, people didn't like the practice so the called it corrupt. And the people who released the information made the most of the public ignorance.

starshine1234 wrote: »

Persecution of whistle blowers?

In addition to the above, McCabe was shown for what he was in the last report. A useless sergeant with a habit for exaggeration and a tendency to watch probationers make mistakes so he could report them instead of doing his job as a sergeant and stopping them from making the mistake. You can hold him up as a hero all you like but to people who actually read the report it's clear what he was. It's unlikely his selective leaking of information was the reason he ostracised, I'd say he had few friends on the force before that.

starshine1234 wrote: »

Mass grave containing 800 bodies. Garda response, refusal to investigate.

Investigate what exactly? All the children had death certificates and there was nothing to indicate there was any kind of foul play in any of their deaths. What investigation would you expect? The youngest person involved would be in their late seventies if still alive. The person who first broke the news was horrified at the media coverage. She simply wanted the graveyard recognised as an official graveyard and treated as such. Tell me what kind of investigation you would have wanted and tell me how corruption comes into it at all?

starshine1234 wrote: »

Corrupt assholes. They should cop on. They allow themselves to be politicised. Martin Callinan did great favours for Alan Shatter.

How exactly should the police force refuse to be politicised if the citizens are happy for all senior appointments to be made by the sitting government? That's not the fault of the Gardaí, it's yours as a citizen.

starshine1234 wrote: »

Was he forced to act like the thuggish prick that he did?

Again, I'll need a source for what your are on about.

Hooch

Thread locked for Moderation

EDIT:

Thread will remain locked, far too old to be resurrecting. Several posts edited to remove what was potentially a defamatory post.

starshine1234, welcome to the forum. Please read the forum charter. I can't see you lasting long to be honest if you cannot remain civil in a forum that has a large percentage of Gardaí in it.