UPC new bb packages

D'Peoples Voice

The recent price increase in UPC I think should have people reconsidering their broadband options.
My point is I think UPC have miscalculated in their recent price increase - while everyone wants high speeds not everyone needs high speeds.

People like me will make the decision based on this comparison site http://www.callcosts.ie/broadband/Broadband_Calculator.175.LE.asp.
It's very tempting to choose the cheapest option - many people don't really understand the TRUE significance of terms: high download(upload) speed, low ping, contention and congestion.
Cable broadband is now double the cost of midband/mobile dongles - interesting to see how this changes with 4G dongles.

I have already seen some posts here by existing UPC customers using the recent price change to downgrade. I think this is because many of us, choose high speeds only to later discover a cheaper package may be sufficent.
Take this post by bk

Well, that page would download about 5 times quicker on 30Mb then 0.5Mb.
The page is 277KB or 2.2 Mb, so it would take under 5 seconds to download on a 0.5Mb/s connection, while it would take just 1 second on a 30Mb/s connection.However you would see no difference between a 3Mb/s and a 30Mb/s connection, they would both download the page in the same 1 second.

For example, would you know how fast your internet should be to download page like this http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2003/06/10/00410.asp within a second. What if this site is indicative of the sites you typically browse?

Callcosts should ask for a list of 10 of your most visited sites, and perform a similar calculation as bk did above, and return the minimum broadband speed that would suit your needs. Likewise, it could do it for gamers that want to query on low pings.

My point is, UPC are continuously increasing speeds AND prices, and I'm not sure they are doing themselves any favours.
If and when a comparison site comes out that lets people discover what speeds they really need, UPC may have miscalculated.
We know from the post by vibe666 that UPC need to recover the €500 million costs of their investment - but if people begin to downgrade in large numbers or move elsewhere, they may find that cheaper prices over a longer timescale is better. The move from UPC television to FTA/Saorview combo boxes will not help UPC.

People can certainly save a lot of money moving between the current broadband deals

http://www.upc.ie/deals/broadbandandphone/
UPC
- 50mb/5mb up + phone €44
- 100mb/10mb up + phone €49
- 150mb/10mb up + phone €54
includes 100 minutes of FREE calls anytime to Irish mobiles, local, national and selected international fixed line destinations

eircom Standalone Fibre
- 25Mb/8Mb - €40 (FTTC/FTTH)
- 50Mb/20Mb - €50 (FTTC/FTTH)
- 150Mb/30Mb - €60 (FTTH)

Smart
-UP to 24mb/1mb - €29.95

Digiweb Metro - Fixed Wireless
-5Mb/512kb - €35.53
-8Mb/1Mb - €40.61
-30Mb/1Mb - €44.95

Vodafone (Broadband Max Value)
-UP to 24Mb/1mb - €29.99

Eircom (Basic Broadband & Home phone)
-UP to 8Mb/1mb - €40
I'm sure the rollout of 4G, ESB proposed network expansion plans, and the SKY/BT deal may make this very competitive.

Royal Legend

what will 4g do for us? hinest question.

I believe that 3 are favourites to win the 4g licence

AllGunsBlazing

I signed on for UPC's basic 5 mb package two years ago for 29 euro (no phone). Since then I've been bumped up to 25 mb and seen the cost go up by 5 euro.

All in all I'm still happy with the cost of the service they provide. That said, their most basic package in 2012 is way overpriced in comparison to when I joined two years ago. Had they been charging those sort of prices back then I would have gone elsewhere as I simply don't need a 50 mb internet connection.

kamin99

well, I upgraded from 120+phone to 150 + phone since the difference is only 2 euro. I used to get the full 120Mb day or night , now after the upgrade I get around 60-70 MB and only occasionally in the early hours of the morning that I can get 130 Mb , Any idea why this is happening

dub45

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

The recent price increase in UPC I think should have people reconsidering their broadband options.
My point is I think UPC have miscalculated in their recent price increase - while everyone wants high speeds not everyone needs high speeds.

...................................................

Exactly the same thought struck me when I saw the pricing structure - there is a very big gap now "underneath" UPC's pricing structure and while as you say fast speeds are desirable etc etc many people simply don't need those type of speeds for the way they use the web at the moment. Boards may be full of enthusiasts using the web to the max but think of the "average" users and the way they use it and a Smart Telecom product for example would be more than adequate for them. It seems strange that UPC don't a bb product around the 30 euro mark.

dub45

ED E wrote: »

With other companies lying about being unlimited it kind of puts them in a hard spot. If they say 500GB average joe wont know thats loads, they'll just think sure X is unlimited, why would I go for a limited package. In a sense they arent too out of line as its hard to use 500GB unlike eircoms limits.

So its ok to lie because everyone else lies?:eek:

As customers and consumers we should demand honesty and integrity from companies as a given. Resigning yourself to it just encourages dishonesty.

cursai

Can anyone tell me why im a 25mb + phone package when there's a 50mb + phone for the same price of 44e.

dub45

cursai wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why im a 25mb + phone package when there's a 50mb + phone for the same price of 44e.

Because you haven't used said phone to contact them?

cursai

dub45 wrote: »

Because you haven't used said phone to contact them?

I just opened their site for the first time ever when I saw this thread. They're not open til Monday. I need my extra 25mbs now. Im entitled. Arrgh.

dub45

cursai wrote: »

I just opened their site for the first time ever when I saw this thread. They're not open til Monday. I need my extra 25mbs now. Im entitled. Arrgh.

AFAIK there is no entitlement - people are not automatically being upgraded without formally requesting it. Seems to also require a new 12 month contract.

D'Peoples Voice

Royal Legend wrote: »

what will 4g do for us? hinest question.

I believe that 3 are favourites to win the 4g licence

I don't wish to go off topic answering this, so I'll keep it short

Broadband Technology and Speeds

Technology         Download  Speed Range 	            Connection
Dial-up 	     Up to 56kbps 	                     Phone Line
DSL 	             768 Kbps - 6 Mbps 	                     Phone Line
Satellite 	     400 Kbps - 2 Mbps 	                     Wireless Satellite
3G 	             50 Kbps - 1.5 Mbps 	             Wireless
Cable Modem 	     4 Kbps - 25 Mbps 	                     Coaxial Cable
WiMax 	             ≤ 128 Mbps 	                     Wireless
FiOS 	             ≤ 150 Mbps 	                     Fiber
LTE (4G)             ≤1 Gbps for mobile users 	             Wireless

source: http://broadband.about.com/od/speedissues/a/Broadband-Internet-Speeds-Explained.htm

bealtine

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Broadband Technology and Speeds

LTE (4G) ≤1 Gbps for mobile users Wireless

Only in some marketing department dreams

Ken bryan

Why is that we Irish are never happy we moan we it so slow / to cold ? Now some are moaning it,s to fast /to warm .

Icepick

Ken bryan wrote: »

Why is that we Irish are never happy we moan we it so slow / to cold ? Now some are moaning it,s to fast /to warm .

Broadband is ridiculously overpriced compared with other EU countries.

lensman

I just spoke to UPC about upgrading to their 50Mb BB package, my current package is 25Mb incl stand alone charge which costs me €44.87 per month.
As you can see from their web site they offer 50Mb for €39.00 + €7.88 stand alone charge which comes to €46.88, Great says I, I can upgrade to 50Mb for an extra €2.01 per month,....bad news is UPC haven't upgraded my area so I'm stuck with 25Mb, the UPC rep had no idea if or when my area will be upgraded:(, I then pointed out this to their sales dept & asked for a price reduction until such time as they upgrade my area, NO was their reply:(...BTW I don't live out in the sticks, I'm in D7 off the Navan Rd.

bealtine

lensman wrote: »

BTW I don't live out in the sticks, I'm in D7 off the Navan Rd.

Kind of off topic but...

My great granny thought anywhere outside the NCR was out in the sticks with cows and sheep and all that after the bombs in the North Strand so she didn't move out to the country and stayed in good ol' Dublin:) D7 was full of cows back then...

Anyway most of Blackhorse Ave has been upgraded or so I was told and the works are ongoing (Pinch of salt required)

bk

D'Peoples Voice, you are right, I do believe UPC have left a big gap in the €20 - €30 entry level broadband range and are leaving potential customers behind for Smart, Vodafone and the 3G crowd to scoop up.

You are correct that the vast majority of people, even techies like us would see little difference between 50mb/s and 150mb/s. Ironically Eircom need the extra speed much more desperately then UPC do. Eircom want to run IPTV over their VDSL2. Two HD streams will eat up 20mb/s of Eircom 50mb/s line (which is only theoretical anyway, probably much lower). UPC don't have this issue, their TV service has no direct impact on the bb speeds.

However I'm sure UPC know this and aren't too worried about this. Currently they are signing up customers at a ferocious rate. People are happy to sign up, even at these higher prices. As these customers start to dry up and if they maybe even start losing customers to cheaper competitors in the future, there is nothing stopping UPC over night reducing their prices and introducing new entry level products.

Needing to pay back the 500million investment isn't such a big deal. They had to make that 500m investment in order to upgrade the TV service in order to remain competitive with Sky and not lose their high margin TV customers. The TV service is already paying off this investment. Each phone and broadband customer they sign up is almost pure profit, as they would have had to make that investment anyway.

What I think is happening, is that they are using their current dominant position to get as much money as they can now, to build up a nice war chest so that they can drop prices aggressively when the other companies finally start becoming competitive.

One area I do think UPC need to improve upon is their upload speed. Uploading is becoming increasingly important (HD video to youtube, HD pics to facebook, cloud backup services, etc.) and I don't think UPC are keeping competitive in this area. Eircoms new VDSL/FTTH products have better upload speeds. Personally I would much prefer a 50/50 or 50/25mb product then UPC's 150/10mb product and I think most people would benefit more from this too.

D'Peoples Voice

Ken bryan wrote: »

Why is that we Irish are never happy we moan we it so slow / to cold ? Now some are moaning it,s to fast /to warm .

We're not moaning it is too slow, we're moaning that it is becoming too expensive.

Think of an incredibly simplistic analogy, Toyota in the morning announce that they are increasing the top speed of all their car models to be able reach 200km/h within 60 seconds. However, as part of this great development, the price of ALL Toyota cars will have to increase by €10,000. Many customers will be delighted that a Toyota can accelerate quicker on a motorway. But how many customers will feel - whats the point, few people apart from the Little General ever need to drive that fast, yet everyone now has to pay €10,000 more. They would have preferred if Toyota left things as they were.

Many people don't need speeds above 50Mb, because it will make little or no noticable difference to their daily browsing habits. But it will make a difference to their pocket! They may have preferred higher upload speeds as BK says, or anything they will actually see the benefit of.

We can all see that UPC are increasing their speeds and PRICES to be able to attack Eircom's dominant market share. But they are leaving a whole swathe of people behind. I'll give you an example of the households of three friends I know. All three are manager that are able to work from home from time to time(expected more like at weekends:D). For two of them, each of their companies has a overall staff deal with O2, where staff receive mobiles and broadband dongles from O2, and in the case of the third friend, their company has a similar deal with Vodafone. Now, if these people want proper broadband at home, they need to justify it to themselves to go out and spend another €44 on broadband from UPC despite having free midband. None of them are prepared to do that incidently. If the additional cost was only €20 for a speed of only 10-20Mb, it might be tempting.

I am sure there are "Irish" solutions to this. Perhaps if UPC were to approach the companies, and lets say arrange for "a wage increase" equal to the cost of a UPC bundle. The employee then claim back the bundle cost as an employment expense against income because they need broadband at home. But I haven't heard of UPC doing anything like this. So all their price increases are doing, is moving UPC broadband further out of the reach of many people - in my opinion.

Redhood

I just made a phone call to be upgraded from 25Mb to 50Mb but was told I need a new router costing €50. Is this normal to be charged to replace the old router as i'm not happy to shell out the money if new customers get it for free?

Ranicand

Redhood wrote: »

I just made a phone call to be upgraded from 25Mb to 50Mb but was told I need a new router costing €50. Is this normal to be charged to replace the old router as i'm not happy to shell out the money if new customers get it for free?

When you were new you got the modem for free I assume first one is always free.

25mMb works just fine but now you want 100Mb and this requires a modem that can do channel banding as it is known.

Pay the €50 or don't.

PS I paid the upgrade charge.

Redhood

Redhood wrote: »

I just made a phone call to be upgraded from 25Mb to 50Mb but was told I need a new router costing €50. Is this normal to be charged to replace the old router as i'm not happy to shell out the money if new customers get it for free?

Yes. You need a Thomson router. The Cisco one you currently can only do up to 30Mb.

I thought even new customer pay a once of fee of €45 for the modem? According to upc.ie, they do?

http://www.upc.ie/deals/broadbandandphone/fibrepower50Mb/

Redhood

Thought the €45 was to set up each package but the routers were free. Had seen that some people when upgrading as I am had the routers replaced for free

colm_mcm

Far as I know, the only time you get a free modem upgrade is if you buy VoIP and have an old VoIP non-capable modem.

There was a campaign of upgrades for customers on an older top of the line product where they got a speed upgrade and an upgrade modem to keep in line with newer packages. This was discussed at length here.

D'Peoples Voice

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

My point is, UPC are continuously increasing speeds AND prices, and I'm not sure they are doing themselves any favours.

Of course they are doing themselves favours. Pricing and product placement in the market is all about collecting as much as you can for as long as you can, and then dropping prices to compete only as and when you need to. UPC aren't a charity.

Where I live is UPCland. The only possible reasons for having another provider are:

(i) you don't want a phone;
(ii) you prefer satellite TV;
(iii) you don't mind slow connection speeds;
(iv) you aren't particularly rational or clued in.

Since 2008, UPC have boxed quite cleverly in their timing of price and speed increases. And while this has been infuriating for me as a customer, the simple reality is that their price/product combinations are better than any alternative I can get. Moreover, I have no doubt that if and when anyone else gets their act together and is in a position to offer people around here a viable alternative, UPC will decide it's time to compete. But why would they concede the revenue now when they don't need to?

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

People can certainly save a lot of money moving between the current broadband deals

They can indeed.

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

eircom Standalone Fibre
- 25Mb/8Mb - €40 (FTTC/FTTH)
- 50Mb/20Mb - €50 (FTTC/FTTH)
- 150Mb/30Mb - €60 (FTTH)

But people can only avail of the broadband deals that actually exist. Vapourware and things that are only available to 2 or 3 housing estates around Ireland don't count.

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

ESB proposed network expansion plans

My vapourware comment above is relevant here as well.

Ranicand

Ranicand wrote: »

When you were new you got the modem for free I assume first one is always free.

25mMb works just fine but now you want 100Mb and this requires a modem that can do channel banding as it is known.

Pay the €50 or don't.

PS I paid the upgrade charge.

We didn't need to change router, so there was no "upgrade charge".

I phoned up, and got our speed upgraded the same day. But because of whatever bundle we have, the cost on our monthly rental was......MINUS €7 a month.

More oomph for less money. That'll do nicely.

D'Peoples Voice

Deleted User wrote: »

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

My point is, UPC are continuously increasing speeds AND prices, and I'm not sure they are doing themselves any favours.

Of course they are doing themselves favours. Pricing and product placement in the market is all about collecting as much as you can for as long as you can, and then dropping prices to compete only as and when you need to. UPC aren't a charity.

Clearly I have a different interpretation of product placement. :rolleyes:
When I think of product placement, I think of Volkswagon having branded products such Seat/Skoda at one end of the market and Audi/Lamborghini at the other end. I think of Tesco selling branded products such as P&G's Fairy Liquid at one end and their own Tesco "yellow" pack at the other end.
I think of Ryanair no frills base priced flight and then a Ryanair flight with dozen of add-ons - depending on your elasticity of demand as being product placement.
I do not think of UPC's idea of selling their full range of broadband products starting at a price that is almost on a par at the highest priced competitor.
Only last evening I had someone say that how they have been disappointed after taking out UPC broadband. Apparently, relative to their last provider, there is not much noticeable difference for them viewing www.irishtimes.com, www.independent.ie, http://ntma.ie/ ,http://www.hoganstand.com/, www.boards.ie, and www.facebook.com - except in the cost.
I had to explain what BK had said previously, for many of these sites, there would be little or no difference between 8Mb and 50Mb broadband. Right now, they are reconsidering their options within the cooling off period, and looking at slower but adequate broadband speeds from Vodafone, SMART or Digiweb.
What UPC's competitors should be doing is educating the public as to this fact - yes UPC may give you 50Mb but save yourself odd €14 each and every month by choosing a broadband that will work just as quick for the PARTICULAR websites that you use.

D'Peoples Voice

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Clearly I have a different interpretation of product placement. :rolleyes:

Evidently.

UPC can sell its product on the back of raw speed - in much the same way that people will believe that a 14 megapixel camera is better than a 10 megapixel camera.

But quite apart from the speed issue, right now the average punter in my part of the country could go to Eircom and get their cheapest product - 8 Mb/s broadband (and 0.5 Mb/s upload speed) bundled with home phone - for €45 a month.

OR

They could spend a euro less and get a very similar product from UPC - but with SIX times the broadband download speed and TEN times the upload speed.

In that situation, two questions are relevant.

Firstly, how exactly are UPC misjudging the situation or failing to compete?

Secondly, who in their right mind would even consider the Eircom option?

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

slower but adequate broadband speeds from Vodafone, SMART or Digiweb.

You don't need to browse for too long through the threads on boards.ie to get wary - to say the least - about Vodafone's offering.

Digiweb have a slight price advantage over Eircom, but not over UPC in any location where they would both be competing. Anyway, unless I'm mistaken, Digiweb do the "yellow pack" thing with their "Smart" brand (as I recall, cheap as chips with service quality to match).

Anyway, your take on this reminds me of people who say that Ryanair is unpopular - while failing to take into account the 76 million passenger journeys on the airline last year.

If UPC are competing badly (or Eircom, for that matter), then they are losing out. If they aren't losing out, then they aren't competing badly. It's that simple.

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

What UPC's competitors should be doing is educating the public as to this fact.....

"Our product is worse than theirs - but that's OK because you don't really need anything better!"

Yep, sure sounds good. :rolleyes:

Let Smart or some other Aldi lookalike get into that territory if they want. If UPC wanted that line of business they'd be chasing it already - and probably winning.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

Digiweb have a slight price advantage over Eircom, but not over UPC in any location where they would both be competing. Anyway, unless I'm mistaken, Digiweb do the "yellow pack" thing with their "Smart" brand (as I recall, cheap as chips with service quality to match).

Actually Smart is Digiwebs premium brand.

With Digiweb you can get anything from 3mb to 24mb. Smart only offer 24mb off their superior LLU network.

Yes Smart is cheap, but the service is excellent, at least for DSL.

Smart 24mb for €30 is the best DSL product in Ireland and an excellent alternative to UPC for people who don't need the higher speeds of UPC and want to save €14.

My recommendations to people in order of preference assuming availability is:

1) UPC
2) Smart if you are very price sensitive.
3) Magnet if neither of the above are available
4) Vodafone DSL only if UPC, Smart or Magnet aren't available

BTW I've Smart myself, but only because UPC isn't available to me.

lotas

bk wrote: »

Smart only offer 24mb off their superior LLU network.

unless i am missing something, the only difference between any LLU provider is the IP backbone they connect to... Everything else is still run by Eircom, including the lines... So, Smart have the same "LLU network" as the rest, only difference being the back end... Again, unless I missed anything...

bk

lotas wrote: »

unless i am missing something, the only difference between any LLU provider is the IP backbone they connect to... Everything else is still run by Eircom, including the lines... So, Smart have the same "LLU network" as the rest, only difference being the back end... Again, unless I missed anything...

No the only part that remains Eircom is the copper pair, everything else from the exchange back is Smart.

First of all with Smart you are guaranteed to be connected to an ADSL2+ DSLAM. With Eircom you might only be connected to an old ADSL DSLAM capable of a theoretical max of 8mb.

Also Smart have their own fibre optic network running to their own exchanges, and I've never once heard or experienced congestion issues with Smart, unlike Eircom which has had lots of issues.

BT's LLU network maybe just as good, but if you sign up with Vodafone (who use BT), you don't know if you will be using the BT LLU network or crappy Eircom bitstream products. Also Vodafone have much smaller caps then Smart.

Just saying Smart certainly aren't yellow pack like some people claimed earlier. I have many criticisms about them, but they definitely have the best DSL product in Ireland.