Liverpool vs Manchester United 23rd September 2012 K/O 1.30 PM (MOD NOTE #1, #254)

killwill

I cannot believe the nonsense spouted by the majority of both sets of fans in here. Somewhere in between both sets of opinions is the truth but what I have seen written in here is comical.
The simple fact is the better team did lose. The lost because of their own short comings. Not because of ref decisions. Put the ball in the back of the net and you will start winning games. Simples.

opr

niallo27 wrote: »

The desicion at the end of the game to play advantage when Suarez was fouled at the edge of the box summed up Hasley for me. Liverpool were down to 9 and he played ****en advantage.

I was just laughing at that stage. How the hell he plays the advantage in that situation is incredible. Not giving RVP a red after Shelvey was like just sticking two fingers up and saying listen I'll just make up what card I give them.

Opr

Mocha Joe

Mocha Joe wrote: »

Ok I can't argue with you. You are clearly quite emotional.

Shelvey with an innocent side-footed tackle? That's mental stuff man. You need to be medicated.

It was a hard tackle no less than you would expect in a game like this, maybe it was a free maybe it wasn't. Even if you said it was a yellow card I would say fair enough but how can you possibly say it was red especially when you have Evans flying through the air at shelvey with both feet and studs while Shelvey is going with one leg and it going with the side of his foot for the ball.

Ordinary man

The ref let shelvey away with a wreckless tackle on rafael early on and should have booked johnson for repeated diving. Yep, he was inconsistent. Also gotta love the way liverpool fans argue that shelvey's tackle should only be a yellow and scream for a red when vp puts in a less dangerous tackle

Leiva

opr wrote: »

I was just laughing at that stage. How the hell he plays the advantage in that situation is incredible. Not giving RVP a red after Shelvey was just like just sticking two fingers up and saying listen I'll just make up what card I give them.

Opr

I have spent the last half hour trying to think of a worse game for a ref and I'm finding it really hard. Celtic v Porto uefa cup final comes close,.

Not sour grapes or anything but I hope Mark Halsey goes home and watches that game tonight and realises the momentum cock-up it was, and he does his penance in the championship for a while.

PhlegmyMoses

Dcully wrote: »

So you agree that the ref had a very good game today?
I simply said the guy is deluded to think so, nothing at all about making myself or anyone else feel better.
Funny how some people read what they want and not whats actually being said :rolleyes:

I believe the ref had a decent game in the sense that he made the right calls for the two contentious incidents. If I agree with and understand his decisions, surely that implies that I feel like he had a decent game. I didn't think I needed to point that out.

opr

Mocha Joe wrote: »

Ok I can't argue with you. You are clearly quite emotional.

Shelvey with an innocent side-footed tackle? That's mental stuff man. You need to be medicated.

Have you watched the replay? Shelvey goes one foot for the ball while Evans makes a two footed lunge with studs showing.



Opr

Ordinary man

Ordinary man wrote: »

The ref let shelvey away with a wreckless tackle on rafael early on and should have booked johnson for repeated diving. Yep, he was inconsistent. Also gotta love the way liverpool fans argue that shelvey's tackle should only be a yellow and scream for a red when vp puts in a less dangerous tackle

RVP's tackle was a proper bad tackle much much worse than Shelveys.

Dcully

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I believe the ref had a decent game in the sense that he made the right calls for the two contentious incidents. If I agree with and understand his decisions, surely that implies that I feel like he had a decent game. I didn't think I needed to point that out.

Cool so your also deluded just like the other chap.
Im sorry but i find it shocking that anyone could say the ref had a very good game.

mayordenis

opr wrote: »

Mocha Joe wrote: »

Ok I can't argue with you. You are clearly quite emotional.

Shelvey with an innocent side-footed tackle? That's mental stuff man. You need to be medicated.

Have you watched the replay? Shelvey goes one foot for the ball while Evans makes a two footed lunge with studs showing.



Opr

It's actually clear as day that Evans attempt at a tackle is far far more dangerous but sure I suppose there's no point in continuing to entertain the trolls

Leiva

mayordenis wrote: »

It's actually clear as day that Evans attempt at a tackle is far far more dangerous but sure I suppose there's no point in continuing to entertain the trolls

There is no way any pro is going to pull out of that tackle. Never

PhlegmyMoses

Dcully wrote: »

Cool so your also deluded just like the other chap.
Im sorry but i find it shocking that anyone could say the ref had a very good game.

Could you maybe not call me deluded? And maybe understand that there are other viewpoints that you may not agree with but people may still hold without being deluded. Are you deluded for holding your beliefs about the incident?

If everyone were to follow your abysmal debating style, the whole forum would make their point and then just call everyone deluded who they disagree with. It would really make for interesting and stimulating reading.

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I believe the ref had a decent game in the sense that he made the right calls for the two contentious incidents. If I agree with and understand his decisions, surely that implies that I feel like he had a decent game. I didn't think I needed to point that out.

I would actually worry that there are people free to go out into society that think the ref had a good game today.

Optimalprimerib

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Ordinary man wrote: »

2 decisions does decide a match. Scoring does and liverpool just cannot do that

We did today though. Yea if two players get sent off from a team that doesn't decide that match. :rolleyes:

Sorry may have missed it but who else was sent off? I thought it was only one.

PhlegmyMoses

mayordenis wrote: »

It's actually clear as day that Evans attempt at a tackle is far far more dangerous but sure I suppose there's no point in continuing to entertain the trolls

Check out the Stuart Holden\Jonny Evans tackle from a few years back. almost identical. Evans goes in High with one foot, Holden goes in low with two. Evans gets sent off as he was more reckless and deemed to be the aggressor.

Ordinary man

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

Sorry may have missed it but who else was sent off? I thought it was only one.

So it's only 1 decision that you people have spent the last 4 pages moaning about?

Nemanja91

Zaid Great Machine wrote: »

RVP's tackle was a proper bad tackle much much worse than Shelveys.

No chance of that.

Turtyturd

opr wrote: »

Have you watched the replay? Shelvey goes one foot for the ball while Evans makes a two footed lunge with studs showing.



Opr

Maybe the red card today will work out better in the long run and Shelvey will get the reputation as one of those midfielders who just can't tackle, and the refs will have a little laugh with him over it in future while dishing out a yellow for his terrible tackles.

Dcully

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Could you maybe not call me deluded? And maybe understand that there are other viewpoints that you may not agree with but people may still hold without being deluded. Are you deluded for holding your beliefs about the incident?

If everyone were to follow your abysmal debating style, the whole forum would make their point and then just call everyone deluded who they disagree with. It would really make for interesting and stimulating reading.

My abysmal debating style? and what might that be?
Take a chill pilli happen to think anyone who thinks the referee had a very good game simply has to be deluded.
I can accept peopeles` opinions on individual incidents but to say he had a very good game is just crazy.
If your going to come onto an internet forum and debate i suggest you grow a thick skin and dont be so sensitive.

PhlegmyMoses

Zaid Great Machine wrote: »

I would actually worry that there are people free to go out into society that think the ref had a good game today.

And I'd be more worried about the fact that people are so confident that their own opinions are right that they go around telling everybody else that they are deluded if they think differently. It's actually baffling how many people in here can only deal with extremes and black and white thinking when it comes to holding an opinion. There is room for debate here. One of the best refs in the league today agreed with me, yet you feel there is no other relevant viewpoint than your own.

Ordinary man

If the tackle definately wasn't a red, then it will be overturned. Looking forward to seeing that

PhlegmyMoses

Dcully wrote: »

My abysmal debating style? and what might that be?
Take a chill pilli happen to think anyone who thinks the referee had a very good game simply has to be deluded.
I can accept peopeles` opinions on individual incidents but to say he had a very good game is just crazy.
If your going to come onto an internet forum and debate i suggest you grow a thick skin and dont be so sensitive.

So now I'm being sensitive for pulling you up on the rubbish you were posting? Is there any room for debate with you? Everyone's just deluded or sensitive, right? Do you actually have anything to say other than making ad hominem attacks on posters?

Hulk Hands

Zaid Great Machine wrote: »

I would actually worry that there are people free to go out into society that think the ref had a good game today.

After some of the sheer delusion you've posted over the past couple of days, I wouldn't be worrying about anyone bar yourself

Optimalprimerib

Ordinary man wrote: »

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

Sorry may have missed it but who else was sent off? I thought it was only one.

So it's only 1 decision that you people have spent the last 4 pages moaning about?

Oh I'm not moaning I think it's hilarious but I only thought Shelvey was sent off, I didnt realise someone else was.

Chucky the tree

No one else was sent off, I never said anyone else was sent off.

niallo27

Ordinary man wrote: »

If the tackle definately wasn't a red, then it will be overturned. Looking forward to seeing that

Well watching the video that was just posted here, do you think it was a red card.

Ordinary man

niallo27 wrote: »

Well watching the video that was just posted here, do you think it was a red card.

It is a yellow/red all depending on the ref, one of those that can go either way. But i can't see it being overturned. The ref sees it 1 time and has no slow motion

Dcully

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

So now I'm being sensitive for pulling you up on the rubbish you were posting? Is there any room for debate with you? Everyone's just deluded or sensitive, right?

So let me get this straight.
I said to another guy he to take a look at himself if he thought that ref today had a very good game.
I wasnt talking to you, you butted in having a go at me and ridiculing my opinion yet ever since your whining that im having a go at you for your opinion
Your just being petty now mate.

Do you actually have anything to say other than making ad hominem attacks on posters?

Jesus you dont half over react do you,i simply said anyone who thinks the ref had a very good game must be deluded.
Get over it, dont take it so personal.

counterlock

Rubbish being spouted from both sets of fans in here. The ref was horrendous, if you don't see it, you need to reassess what your interpretation of the sport is.

The red card was rubbish, both players went for it as you would expect, you cannot penalise one and not the other. Nor can you suggest that shelvey came in side footed, or van persies was a straight red.

Ordinary man

counterlock wrote: »

Rubbish being spouted from both sets of fans in here. The ref was horrendous, if you don't see it, you need to reassess what your interpretation of the sport is.

The red card was rubbish, both players went for it as you would expect, you cannot penalise one and not the other. Nor can you suggest that shelvey came in side footed, or van persies was a straight red.

What "horrendous" decisions did he make? The shelvey/ van persie tackles could have gone either way but what else did he do?

PhlegmyMoses

Dcully wrote: »

So let me get this straight.
I said to another guy he to take a look at himself if he thought that ref today had a very good game.
I wasnt talking to you, you butted in having a go at me and ridiculing my opinion yet ever since your whining that im having a go at you for your opinion
Your just being petty now mate.

Is this a private text message conversation or a public board?

Jesus you dont half over react do you,i simply said anyone who thinks the ref had a very good game must be deluded.
Get over it, dont take it so personal.

Which is what I take issue with. It's not a personal thing,- it is you who seems to be trying to make out that it is. Anyway, we're taking this thread more off-topic than it needs to be, so I'll bow out.

counterlock

Ordinary man wrote: »

counterlock wrote: »

Rubbish being spouted from both sets of fans in here. The ref was horrendous, if you don't see it, you need to reassess what your interpretation of the sport is.

The red card was rubbish, both players went for it as you would expect, you cannot penalise one and not the other. Nor can you suggest that shelvey came in side footed, or van persies was a straight red.

What "horrendous" decisions did he make? The shelvey/ van persie tackles could have gone either way but what else did he do?

He had two big decisions to make got them both wrong. Scholes was booked for not making contact with Sterling and Suarez not booked for his persistent diving again

goodolegill

opr wrote: »

Have you watched the replay? Shelvey goes one foot for the ball while Evans makes a two footed lunge with studs showing.



Opr

so lets get this right for the sake of neutrality!!

One player who makes contact with the ball first kicking the ball onto the opposing players foot and who in his follow through hits the player with not his studs but with the top part of his foot is the villian.

Or as the ref saw it, player comes in a mini second too late and with his right foot (studs showing) rakes down the opposing players leg is the victim.

FlawedGenius

Already nice gap appearing from City. Winning and playing not so good is nice, but winning and playing ****en ****e is great.:D

bad2dabone

As a.neutral I thought the ref was.beyond poor, and the penalty was a terrible dive, united getting a reputation as a team of divers. Sad.

gosplan

Just saw the tackle video there and Liverpool have a very solid complaint.

Also, are United the most successful team in terms of diving??? I've no problem with it but it is apparant that they do it well. That's like 2 pennos in 5 games this season and Young hasn't even gotten involved yet.

J. Marston

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Already nice gap appearing from City. Winning and playing not so good is nice, but winning and playing ****en ****e is great.:D

Nice gap? It's three points, that's nothing.

Will I Amnt

bad2dabone wrote: »

As a.neutral I thought the ref was.beyond poor, and the penalty was a terrible dive, united getting a reputation as a team of divers. Sad.

Thought it was a dive first time I seen it tbh.
Johnson actually knocked him off balance by catching the back of his leg.

peterswellman

gosplan wrote: »

Just saw the tackle video there and Liverpool have a very solid complaint.

Also, are United the most successful team in terms of diving??? I've no problem with it but it is apparant that they do it well. That's like 2 pennos in 5 games this season and Young hasn't even gotten involved yet.

Ever heard of a little old club called Barcelona? They are the masters of feigning injury.

MagicMarker

Do you 'Pool fans not realise that your bitchin' and moaning only sweeten the victory?

Carry on though.

opr

goodolegill wrote: »

so lets get this right for the sake of neutrality!!

One player who makes contact with the ball first kicking the ball onto the opposing players foot and who in his follow through hits the player with not his studs but with the top part of his foot is the villian.

Or as the ref saw it, player comes in a mini second too late and with his right foot (studs showing) rakes down the opposing players leg is the victim.

No one is trying to blame anyone apart from people trying to make ridiculous arguments that Shelvey deserved to be sent off but Evans didn't.

You can't make a tackle with both feet off the ground with studs showing. Whether he got the ball first or not is completely irrelevant.

Opr

DARK-KNIGHT

I like 4 spoons of sickener in my tea provided by pool fans

Ordinary man

bad2dabone wrote: »

As a.neutral I thought the ref was.beyond poor, and the penalty was a terrible dive, united getting a reputation as a team of divers. Sad.

You need to see it in slow motion. But don't worry most of the game is being put up here in slow motion bit by bit;)

goodolegill

personally i think its very hard to call evans challenge a 9 times out of 10 red card but i think Shelveys is. Evans swings through the ball and is never over the top of the ball - by the letter of the law it is a jump but his studs not near his opponent. While Shelvey has racked his right foot down evans leg and his spread eagled himself in preparation of the tackle. Both arent good tackles but one is much worse than the other!!

On a sidenote - karma can have a way of rectifing itself, i dont hear too many memories of Carraghers let off against nani a few years ago

Cantona's Collars

Ordinary man wrote: »

If the tackle definately wasn't a red, then it will be overturned. Looking forward to seeing that

Who plays the ball?

Mocha Joe

Shelvey's tackle was the tackle of a coward. Flying in over the ball to try and hurt an opponent above anything else. Jonny Evans tackle was a tough honest tackle were no-one was at risk. Good on Jonny. He had a great game alongside Rio.

gosplan

peterswellman wrote: »

gosplan wrote: »

Just saw the tackle video there and Liverpool have a very solid complaint.

Also, are United the most successful team in terms of diving??? I've no problem with it but it is apparant that they do it well. That's like 2 pennos in 5 games this season and Young hasn't even gotten involved yet.

Ever heard of a little old club called Barcelona? They are the masters of feigning injury.

And that's relevant because?

Morzadec

Result was sickening but what can you do? Only so much you can control.
I'm not going to comment on the referee because I assume everything has been said already.

Performance was very good. Still question marks about a lack of a cutting edge and finishing ability, but if we dominate games to that extent and keep 11 men on the field in the future this shouldn't effect us too badly.

Can't complain with one performance in a red shirt today.

It's tough to take losing in this manner, but looking in the longterm I can feel a bit more positive after today. I'd rather lose like that than to be outplayed, at least it bodes well for the future.

I hope Rodgers is keeping there heads up and letting them know that.

opr

His studs were no were near the player? I'm deluded with the best of them at times but ...



Opr

Cantona's Collars

opr wrote: »

His studs were no were near the player? I'm deluded with the best of them at times but ...

]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A3fLYB2CEAAmY-z.jpg

Opr

I think the image I posted shows it more clearly that Evans made contact with the ball while Shelvey went over it.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80910345&postcount=1496