Liverpool vs Manchester United 23rd September 2012 K/O 1.30 PM (MOD NOTE #1, #254)

monkey9

Does anyone actually know what Shelvey was saying to Ferguson?

Blatter

RasTa wrote: »

Lloyds big heart play of the day award in gif

I don't think Valencia has gotten even nearly enough credit for this. Great determination and speed to win the ball when he didn't look favorite at all, then had the intelligence to take it on himself in the box when there was no obvious pass on and forced Johnson to make the challenge. Superb.

ShaneScouse

Blatter wrote: »

I don't think Valencia has gotten even nearly enough credit for this. Great determination and speed to win the ball when he didn't look favorite at all, then had the intelligence to take it on himself in the box when there was no obvious pass on and forced Johnson to make the challenge. Superb.

Don't forget the gold medal for the Dive

Felexicon

monkey9 wrote: »

It wasn't a peno, imo. Not at all. If he gives that, he should be giving a peno to Suarez.

We were down to ten when Utd at the same time should have been down to ten and then being consistant, he should also have sent Van Persie off.

He had a shocker! Disappointed that we were on the receiving end and that it cost us. But that's football. We'll be the benificiaries soon enough, i'm sure.

Can't agree with you about either point there I'm afraid.

Johnson clipped Valencias heel just as he was going by him and at full pace there was no way he could stay on his feet.

Van Persies tackle, while a bit rash, was not a sending off offence as unlike Shelvey he was in control of his bodythe whole time and didn't go in over the ball.

As for the Suarez claim. Everyone has seen them given but Evans got a toe to the ball

Blatter

ShaneScouse wrote: »

Don't forget the gold medal for the Dive

The dive from which Johnson, the player that made the challenge, had absolutely no complaints about?

Yeah, some dive.

Felexicon

ShaneScouse wrote: »

Don't forget the gold medal for the Dive

Oh come on. There is contact there. This isn't like the red card where there is a grey area. Johnson cliipped his leg

RasTa

Blatter wrote: »

I don't think Valencia has gotten even nearly enough credit for this. Great determination and speed to win the ball when he didn't look favorite at all, then had the intelligence to take it on himself in the box when there was no obvious pass on and forced Johnson to make the challenge. Superb.

Yup, even Agger injured himself trying to stop him and clattering into Johnson. Fair play to Johnson for getting on with it and coming back to give away the stonewall peno.

monkey9

Blatter wrote: »

The dive from which Johnson, the player that made the challenge, had absolutely no complaints about?

Yeah, some dive.

Eh, i think he was too busy being treated by the physio after Reina collided into his ribs to make a complaint. Reina made the complaint and got booked.

I agree with the earlier comment though, it was a fine run by Valencia and showed a lot of composure whilst in the box.

monkey9

Felexicon wrote: »

Oh come on. There is contact there. This isn't like the red card where there is a grey area. Johnson cliipped his leg

Johnson didn't make any sort of tackle until Valencia was already falling.

simongurnick

Blatter wrote: »

I don't think Valencia has gotten even nearly enough credit for this. Great determination and speed to win the ball when he didn't look favorite at all, then had the intelligence to take it on himself in the box when there was no obvious pass on and forced Johnson to make the challenge. Superb.

Has to be player of the year. An attacking player running straight towards goal!! A revelation in world football!
Also, when he gets to the edge of the box Giggs is wide open on the left.
Softest penalty you'll see

The_Kew_Tour

I was at the game today. In the United end.(apparently im a scumbag)

Just only read 10-15 minutes in here, but by God some posters in here would make the Conspiracy Theory thread look civil.

First of all I want to pay tribute to LFC and most of its supporters for 2 things. First the tribute to the Families and the terrific reception United fans were made feel part of the occasion. Also to the many fans me and people I was with when we payed tribute at Memorial. Great banter and Liverpool people like many parts of England have class people and Scousers really are top drawer. Plenty of United fans paid their respects btw.

Now I only in the door hour. Not seen highlights, but have heard and seen bit on Sky about some of the chanting.

First of all before the game during the tribute United fans were great. We saluted and applauded the occasion and nothing of bad nature happened.(rightly so)

When YNWA started some United fans started chanting United United United, not many, but according to some on boards it was like as if we were singing the praise of Hitler. I can assure you it was nothing like that. Phew Eh?

Now the first incident of note was the "Where are your famous Munich songs" Bad taste from United fans tbf. But here is whats going to hurt some Liverpool fans who think you are Angels. When 20/30 of your fans start chanting Munich and start doing aeroplane gestures, then your going to have Muppets responding to Muppets.

I didnt hear anything of note(thankfully) for rest of game.

Now United fans were locked in at end the the game like most away fans. Sad to say that minority starting singing Pathetic stuff like "Murders" an so on. Absolute disgusting. I like to say it was only 1 or 2, but I say there was at least 200/300 sang it. But again no smoke without fire. At the end of the game there must have been about 40 Liverpool fans coming over taunting United fans. Coins were thrown too. Pity Sky missed that if they were going to go into such great detail United side of things.

Its a pity few Muppets spoiled what was for most a peaceful and joyous event.

Im going to say this and Mods can do what they please, but some of the Posts and Posters in here are disgrace.

Chucky the Tree posts have for example been just so insulting never seen likes of it.

and its sad to see that not one LFC poster has criticised comments their fans about somebody who has dignoised with cancer, but first to slam United fans at any given second.

Sad maybe, but surprised maybe not.

Ah well let the Haters Hate.

Blatter

monkey9 wrote: »

Eh, i think he was too busy being treated by the physio after Reina collided into his ribs to make a complaint. Reina made the complaint and got booked.

I agree with the earlier comment though, it was a fine run by Valencia and showed a lot of composure whilst in the box.

Even so, did you not see the replays after the game? He clipped Valencia's right heel just as he was winding up to shoot in a running position and also gave a slight push in the back. Any sort of contact like that in that type of situation is going to impede the attacker unfairly. Definite penalty imo. Fwiw I thought the Evans tackle on Suarez was a penalty as well.

Felexicon

monkey9 wrote: »

Johnson didn't make any sort of tackle until Valencia was already falling.

If you get to see a replay from behind you'll see that Johson steps across Valencia to try to get goal side. As he does this he catches Valencias heel.
It's only after this that Johnson puts his right leg in to try and win the ball and as you correctly say at this stage Valencia was already falling but only because of the initial contact

Hulk Hands

He also pushed Valencia with two hands on his back. Clear penalty

monkey9

Blatter wrote: »

Even so, did you not see the replays after the game? He clipped Valencia's right heel just as he was winding up to shoot in a running position and also gave a slight push in the back. Any sort of contact like that in that type of situation is going to impede the attacker unfairly. Definite penalty imo. Fwiw I thought the Evans tackle on Suarez was a penalty as well.

I think the slight contact was Valencia making contact with Johnson's leg, not that other way round. I'm not saying Valencia did it on purpose in the sense of leaving the leg out to be caught, i just don't think Johnson made a challenge.

I actually had no complaints when the Suarez one wasn't given. There was contact, but Suarez dived.

I think neither were penos, but i'm just annoyed that one was given and not the other and that it went in Utd's favour.

Blatter

simongurnick wrote: »

Has to be player of the year. An attacking player running straight towards goal!! A revelation in world football!
Also, when he gets to the edge of the box Giggs is wide open on the left.
Softest penalty you'll see

He does a lot more than run straight towards goal. Seems like you can't give a player a bit of credit these days without some people thinking you're touting them for the Ballon d'Or. And it would have been extremely risky to have passed it to Giggs at that time as Allen was well placed to intercept any sort of ball there.

FlawedGenius

monkey9 wrote: »

Does anyone actually know what Shelvey was saying to Ferguson?

"Your a ****en snitch bruv innit", apparently.

Chucky the tree

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Chucky the Tree posts have for example been just so insulting never seen likes of it.

Poor thing. Would you like a tissue?

simongurnick

Blatter wrote: »

He does a lot more than run straight towards goal. Seems like you can't give a player a bit of credit these days without some people thinking you're touting them for the Ballon d'Or. And it would have been extremely risky to have passed it to Giggs at that time as Allen was well placed to intercept any sort of ball there.

Just saying he didn't do anything spectacular. He blazes towards the box, could have slipped in Giggs, but doesn't and attacks the goal. Exactly what you would expect him to do.

The_Kew_Tour

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Poor thing. Would you like a tissue?

Tissue for you? Nah...

The_Kew_Tour

The Ref was ****. Liverpool were robbed, but in saying that you had chances to win game. Think sending off made no difference in that sense.

Felexicon

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Poor thing. Would you like a tissue?

Tissue for you? Nah...

No I think he meant for your tears. I'm sure you'll be crying yourself to sleep after missing out on that bird last night

The_Kew_Tour

Felexicon wrote: »

No I think he meant for your tears. I'm sure you'll be crying yourself to sleep after missing out on that bird last night

still would not take tissue of that.;)

monkey9

What bird was this?? Come on Kew Tour, what happened???

J. Marston

RasTa wrote: »

Lloyds big heart play of the day award in gif



Also a good summary of each set of fans during this thread.

That is some blistering pace from Valencia. He destroys Johnson who is quick as well.

And Shelvey? Fergie's little smile says it all.

Felexicon

monkey9 wrote: »

What bird was this?? Come on Kew Tour, what happened???

Check the united thread

The_Kew_Tour

monkey9 wrote: »

What bird was this?? Come on Kew Tour, what happened???

Forever single lad. Forever single.:p

scudzilla

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Forever single lad. Forever single.:p

Ride the bird or 3 points at Anfield, ya could only have 1, before the weekend which would ya have chosen?

kayevajo

SIR Alex laughing at right said fred as he goes down the tunnel is magic!

monkey9

kayevajo wrote: »

SIR Alex laughing at right said fred as he goes down the tunnel is magic!

Funny incident alright.

Bloody hell ,fergie has aged.

Not sure what Shelvey was at ? He was having a real good game too until that

JaMarcus Hustle

rarnes1 wrote: »

Bloody hell ,fergie has aged.

And yet he still looks about 10 years younger than Shelvey.

kryogen

rarnes1 wrote: »

Bloody hell ,fergie has aged.

Not sure what Shelvey was at ? He was having a real good game too until that

Did you think so? You were there right? Thought he was no better then ok while he was on the field from my own viewing tbh, must have looked different in the flesh

J. Marston

All I remember from Shelvey is him giving away the ball for the first five minutes, then fouling Rafael then being sent off and finally being trolled by Fergie.

_blank_

kayevajo wrote: »

right said fred

JimsAlterEgo

I would say Shelvey got sent off fo using excessive force in the tackle, evans gets to the ball and is in no way endangering Shelvey.

niallo27

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

I would say Shelvey got sent off fo using excessive force in the tackle, evans gets to the ball and is in no way endangering Shelvey.

So jumping in two footed with studs showing is not endangering a player. If shelvey had stayed down and the liverpool players had surrounded Evans like the utd players did to shelvey he probably would have been the man sent off.

JimsAlterEgo

niallo27 wrote: »

So jumping in two footed with studs showing is not endangering a player. If shelvey had stayed down and the liverpool players had surrounded Evans like the utd players did to shelvey he probably would have been the man sent off.

FFS, have you ever played soccer, watch Evans play the ball first - he side foots it away, hes not trying to do Shelvey. Hes not even tackling really. Shelveys was a scissors tackle, with excessive force (thats the key) - straight red. The ref pretty much sees this angle also.

Laws of the game - note nothing about 2 footed tackle
12.3 CARELESS, RECKLESS, INVOLVING EXCESSIVE FORCE
“Careless” indicates that the player has not exercised due caution in
making his play.
“Reckless” means that the player has made unnatural movements
designed to intimidate an opponent or to gain unfair advantage
“Involving excessive force” means that the player has far exceeded the use
of force necessary to make a fair play for the ball and has placed his
opponent in considerable danger of bodily harm.

I would argue Evans was Reckless and Shelvey Involving excessive force.

killwill

niallo27 wrote: »

So jumping in two footed with studs showing is not endangering a player. If shelvey had stayed down and the liverpool players had surrounded Evans like the utd players did to shelvey he probably would have been the man sent off.

You do realise there were 7 Liverpool players around the referee. They tried to influence the decision but unsuccessfully.
I think the occasion got the better of Shelvey, he gave the ball away 2-3 times in the first 5mins. He went in hard in a couple of tackles trying to make up for it but was being a little over aggressive. Liverpool/United games at Anfield are a huge occassion, add in the Hillsborough factor and I think he was just too psyched up.

niallo27

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

FFS, have you ever played soccer, watch Evans play the ball first - he side foots it away, hes not trying to do Shelvey. Hes not even tackling really. Shelveys was a scissors tackle, with excessive force (thats the key) - straight red. The ref pretty much sees this angle also.

Laws of the game - note nothing about 2 footed tackle
12.3 CARELESS, RECKLESS, INVOLVING EXCESSIVE FORCE
“Careless” indicates that the player has not exercised due caution in
making his play.
“Reckless” means that the player has made unnatural movements
designed to intimidate an opponent or to gain unfair advantage
“Involving excessive force” means that the player has far exceeded the use
of force necessary to make a fair play for the ball and has placed his
opponent in considerable danger of bodily harm.

I would argue Evans was Reckless and Shelvey Involving excessive force.

Did Evans two feet leave the floor with studs showing. Fergusons reaction with the smile says a lot, do you think he would be smiling if he thought shelvey went to hurt Evans.

killwill

niallo27 wrote: »

Did Evans two feet leave the floor with studs showing. Fergusons reaction with the smile says a lot, do you think he would be smiling if he thought shelvey went to hurt Evans.

Of course it says alot, Shelvey looked silly mouthing off like that and it made SAF smile.

niallo27

killwill wrote: »

Of course it says alot, Shelvey looked silly mouthing off like that and it made SAF smile.

Yes but do you think he would have been laughing if he thought shelvey had gone to injure one of his players, he is laughing because he can't believe his luck with getting liverpool down to 10.

JimsAlterEgo

niallo27 wrote: »

Did Evans two feet leave the floor with studs showing. Fergusons reaction with the smile says a lot, do you think he would be smiling if he thought shelvey went to hurt Evans.

Are you trying to argue both should have been sent off or none?

Evans wasn't with excessive force, yes it was reckless but he was never going to "do" Shelvey? Can you not see the difference?

niallo27

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Are you trying to argue both should have been sent off or none?

Evans wasn't with excessive force, yes it was reckless but he was never going to "do" Shelvey? Can you not see the difference?

I'm not sure what he should have done but I think both should have got the same punishment, I honestly don't think either player was going into that tackle trying to hurt each other. You could argue jumping in two feet together studs showing is much more dangerous than shelveys tackle.

JimsAlterEgo

niallo27 wrote: »

I'm not sure what he should have done but I think both should have got the same punishment, I honestly don't think either player was going into that tackle trying to hurt each other. You could argue jumping in two feet together studs showing is much more dangerous than shelveys tackle.

I am not saying Shelvey was trying to hurt Evans, but look at what the ref sees, he sees Shelvey scissors tackling over the ball, I honestly dont think the ref wanted to red card him but die to the severity he had no choice. Evans feet were low to the ground but if that was a tackle on a player with the ball it would run the risk of red, however he was not tackling but side footing the ball away.

amiable

killwill wrote: »

Of course it says alot, Shelvey looked silly mouthing off like that and it made SAF smile.

And he has apologised to Fergie for it.
He over reacted and let the moment get the better of him.
He's only 20 and he should learn from it hopefully.

LuckyLloyd

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Fergie is a fantastic bigger picture tactician. He can get outfoxed in the odd game here and there but he has very clear views on how he wants to set up his team and the tactical philosophy he wants them to follow.

Meh, the thing is you don't even need to defend him on tactics.

Ferguson is the GOAT squad builder and belief instiller. He builds exceptional squads time after time after time, and under Ferguson Utd teams have always believed at all times that they can win.

Utd fans have whined constantly the last few years about central midfield - but while that is a relative weakness, at the same time he has put together peerless strength and depth in terms of wing and forward options, fullbacks and center halves.

He's not as great a tactician as the likes of Mourinho and you can point to games over the years where he was out thought on a one off basis by an opponent, but it doesn't matter. He doesn't have to be!

LuckyLloyd

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

and its sad to see that not one LFC poster has criticised comments their fans about somebody who has dignoised with cancer, but first to slam United fans at any given second

What is this about, anyone? Out of the loop on it.

amiable

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What is this about, anyone? Out of the loop on it.

I presume it's about the referee.
He was diagnosed with cancer a couple of years back.

LuckyLloyd

amiable wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What is this about, anyone? Out of the loop on it.

I presume it's about the referee.
He was diagnosed with cancer a couple of years back.

Needless to say, any Liverpool fans shouting anything cancer / illness related should be ashamed of themselves.