Paying maintenance for a child aged over 18.

Larsson47

On a similar topic to deltamike, I too have a 19yo and am currently paying maintenance. Due to a gap year he only did his leaving this year and has spoken of going onto further education, though was not overly keen.
The position i'm in is that neither he or his mother have given me start dates for the course he was thinking about or any information regarding it. Due to other bits and pieces, I'm beginning to have doubts that he is going to do this course, yet I seem to have hit a brick wall with regards to how I find out where I stand regarding maintenance payments.
Has anyone found themselves in this situation and how did you resolve the issue? Is there anyway of finding out without going down the legal route as I would prefer not to as we never went down this route before even with maintenance payments.

The Corinthian

Larsson47 wrote: »

Is there anyway of finding out without going down the legal route as I would prefer not to as we never went down this route before even with maintenance payments.

Had you considered asking your son and/or his mother? TBH, in your position I would anyway because I'd want to understand, advise and help where it comes to his future.

If they refuse to to inform you and give you details, I'd formally request this via registered mail. At the end of the day, it is your business, not only because it's your son, but also because you're effectively paying for it. If your son is going to go to college, then at this stage they'll almost certainly tell you. If you're ignored, my guess is that he's not and either or both are just procrastinating so as to keep the money coming in as long as possible.

If so, then get a seek to have your maintenance order terminated in court and show the judge that you made every effort to find out and that they'd ignored you. However, do first consult a solicitor.

Larsson47

I have asked both, but unfortunately I could not get a definite answer, even though I was advising him throughout the summer to do this course. For the past couple of weeks, phonecalls and texts to both have been ignored (there was no 'falling out'), leading me to believe that perhaps holding onto the payment is her concern.
As I have always paid maintenance without the need for a court order, do I still need to take legal advice with regards to stopping it?

Thanks for your previous answer.

January

OP, I've moved your post to a thread of it's own as the other thread was very old.

The Corinthian

Larsson47 wrote: »

I have asked both, but unfortunately I could not get a definite answer, even though I was advising him throughout the summer to do this course. For the past couple of weeks, phonecalls and texts to both have been ignored (there was no 'falling out'), leading me to believe that perhaps holding onto the payment is her concern.

Yes, that would be a reasonable conclusion.

As I have always paid maintenance without the need for a court order, do I still need to take legal advice with regards to stopping it?

If there's no court order, then as far as I know you can in theory simply stop paying it. I still would send a registered letter first, specifically seeking clarification though, in case it does end up in court at a later date. If this too is ignored, and there's no court order, then you probably can stop paying. She's had 18 years to prepare for this, so it's not like it's going to be sudden.

Just bare in mind that if he goes into full-time education between now and 23, you may have to start paying again.

I still think you should try to talk to your son first. Meet him and discuss his plans for the future, TBH. He may want to take a year out before going to college or do something else.

Larsson47

January wrote: »

OP, I've moved your post to a thread of it's own as the other thread was very old.

Thanks for that.

Big Bag of Chips

Are you still paying the maintenance to your ex? Why not now discuss with your son about paying the maintenance to him directly? He is now legally an adult, and entitled to be treated as one. So rather than paying maintenance to his mother to "keep" him, you pay him an allowance to help with college, out of which he pays his "keep" to his mother himself at a rate they've agreed between them.

It might also be a way to open up discussion about what course he is doing, when he's starting etc..

Larsson47

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Are you still paying the maintenance to your ex? Why not now discuss with your son about paying the maintenance to him directly? He is now legally an adult, and entitled to be treated as one. So rather than paying maintenance to his mother to "keep" him, you pay him an allowance to help with college, out of which he pays his "keep" to his mother himself at a rate they've agreed between them.

It might also be a way to open up discussion about what course he is doing, when he's starting etc..

Believe me, I've tried discussing this with him on numerous occasions and while i've been told what course he wants to do, the issue gets skirted around if I ask for more details. Unfortunately, i've been cut off for the past couple of weeks for no reason and this, along with other grey areas, have me wondering if there's an ulterior motive.

As I feel I have exhausted my options with my son/his mother, I would like to know if I have any other avenues to explore with regards to finding out this information?

While I would love to see him going onto further education, I'm not going to carry on paying his mother if he instead decides to work or claim job seekers while searching.

Big Bag of Chips

Larsson47 wrote: »

I'm not going to carry on paying his mother ....

That is why I suggested you stop paying his mother and arrange to pay the maintenance to him instead. You can stop paying until you get confirmation from them that he is doing the course. (Put the maintenance aside so that if you find out he is in fact doing the course you wil have it there) Then once they get back to you with that confirmation - registration letter or whatever - you can arrange with your son to pay it directly to him.

If they don't get back to you, you're probably safe to assume he is not doing the course!

You may still want to help him out a bit finicially though. When kids reach 18 (or 19) they rarely become financially independent immediately. I'm not saying keep up the full maintenance payment, but the odd "dig out" here and there would be normal for most parents, I think.

Larsson47

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

That is why I suggested you stop paying his mother and arrange to pay the maintenance to him instead.

If he decides to go to college, that is one piece of advice I will certainly keep in mind as it makes perfect sense, giving him a chance to become more self reliant now he's finished school and taking his first steps towards a career.

But, the problem i'm having is that neither he nor his mother will give me a definitive answer as to whether he intends to go to college, despite bringing up the subject on plenty of occasions over the past few months leading up to his leaving cert and throughout the summer. If he chooses not to further his education, maintenance, as far as I know, would cease as he's now 19, unless he chooses to return to it at a later time.

This is probably a bad example, but might explain what i'm looking for. If a parent is not getting maintenance, they have a maintenance recovery section of the welfare to turn to. In my case, i'm wondering is there any department out there that can advise me if he's taking the course or if he's chosen to work instead.

I'm wary of going the legal route as I would be afraid of causing a rift with my son if I drag this through the courts trying to find an answer to a question I feel his mother should be obliged to give me.

Looking back over this, its hard to believe my son and I were on great terms only 2 weeks ago...

Larsson47

Sorry, just read your post after the edit. You are thinking on the same lines as myself, in that if I stop maintenance to his mother, I would still, of course help him out financially.

Stheno

Larsson47 wrote: »

Sorry, just read your post after the edit. You are thinking on the same lines as myself, in that if I stop maintenance to his mother, I would still, of course help him out financially.

I think this might not be a wise course of action, the maintenance to his mother covers household expenses etc, you might find yourself in a world of trouble if you start paying it to him.

Larsson47

Stheno wrote: »

I think this might not be a wise course of action, the maintenance to his mother covers household expenses etc, you might find yourself in a world of trouble if you start paying it to him.

Good point. In the event I still have to pay maintenance it would have to be discussed with her rather than I just change the arrangement, though in this context I meant in the event where I am no longer liable for maintenance, I would still help my son out financially.

Big Bag of Chips

Ideally it would be discussed with her, but if they are not communicating with you, then what can you do? As far as you have been made aware he is not doing any sort of course, so you are within your rights now to stop paying maintenance, and continue to contribute to him personally if you wish.

Believe me, this is not something I'd advise willy-nilly!

I would never advise anyone to stop paying maintenance without good reason. And having a 19 year old son, that you don't know whether or not he is in fultime education or on jobseekers, or working etc to me is good reason.

Your agreement up to this has been amicable. Not done through courts. So you can't "get in trouble" by keeping the maintenance to one side until you find out whether or not you need to be paying it, and if you do need to be paying it you can try again to discuss it with your ex about paying it to him and she taking a portion of it for bills/whatever, or continuing to pay it to her...

It can all be sorted very quickly, if they communicate with you. If they don't - what option do you have?

Larsson47

Your post makes perfect sense, The fact i'm not in a position to communicate with them at this moment and pretty much at a dead end when it comes to options is why i'm looking for advice here.
If i'm honest, I would still like to know if there is a 'softly softly' approach, where I can find out without getting involved with finger pointing and accusations as despite the situation, my relationship with my son is the priority at the end of the day.
Realistically, I think I need to take a bit of action. Holding back the payments or giving notice (perhaps 2 weeks) of doing so would probably get the response i've spent the past few months waiting for.

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply.

The Corinthian

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Why not now discuss with your son about paying the maintenance to him directly? He is now legally an adult, and entitled to be treated as one.

He is an adult and as such he's now obliged to support himself. So while paying him directly is a good idea, it's not if it simply represents an allowance.

Indeed, paying him an extra income on top of jobseekers allowance would actually be detrimental.

Larsson47 wrote: »

I'm wary of going the legal route as I would be afraid of causing a rift with my son if I drag this through the courts trying to find an answer to a question I feel his mother should be obliged to give me.

Actually I don't think you need to use the courts at all.

If maintenance is voluntary and there is no court order for it, all you need to do is simply stop paying. Legally you've not been obliged to pay at any stage as you're only obliged to do so if there's a court order telling you to do so. It's actually for your son or his mother to bring you to court, not the other way around.

I do think that sending a registered letter explaining that you've repeatedly sought clarification and if none is given within, say, two weeks you'll conclude that he has ended his full-time education, and act accordingly, is still the best course of action; it may spur him into actually doing a course and will cover you (demonstrating that you did your best to get clarification prior to cutting payments) should they initiate legal proceedings.

LegacyUser

If maintenance is voluntary and there is no court order for it, all you need to do is simply stop paying. Legally you've not been obliged to pay at any stage as you're only obliged to do so if there's a court order telling you to do so. It's actually for your son or his mother to bring you to court, not the other way around.

Hi there I think the above statement is incorrect. There is a legal responsibility in Ireland on parents, whether married or unmarried, to maintain dependent children

uck51js9zml2yt

my brother paid directly into his kids accounts when they turned 18 and started college.

Larsson47

In reply to posts #16 to #18

@TC #16 Some more great advice, thank you.
With regard to paying him an allowance instead of maintenance to his mother, I would only consider regular payments if he decides to further his education. If he has gained employment or opts for job seekers in the interim, I would help him out financially only if necessary as due to a (presumably) low income he may need a hand from time to time.

@nat #17 I think TC has a valid point in that as I do not have a court order stating I must continue paying maintenance now that my son is 19. In that context I would not be breaking any judgement against me if I decided to stop or give notice to stop, in an effort to get the information I feel his mother (as recipient of the monies) is obliged to give me. Holding back the payments is really just to kick start a reaction from her side, though for the record, I completely agree with you, that I should be responsible for my son, whether or not i'm in a relationship with his mother and at this moment i'm continuing to pay. Thanks for the post.

@tat #18 This was suggested to me in an earlier post, I presume its something I would need to discuss with his mother or is it a legitimate option open to me? I would welcome any more information you might have on the subject. Thanks.

The Corinthian

now and then wrote: »

Hi there I think the above statement is incorrect. There is a legal responsibility in Ireland on parents, whether married or unmarried, to maintain dependent children

There is, but legally it's not automatic. One does still need a court order before one legally has to pay.

Even in practical terms this makes sense; after all, without a court order to say how much to pay, what would one pay? €1 per month? €1,000?

Larsson47 wrote: »

@nat #17 I think TC has a valid point in that as I do not have a court order stating I must continue paying maintenance now that my son is 19. In that context I would not be breaking any judgement against me if I decided to stop or give notice to stop, in an effort to get the information I feel his mother (as recipient of the monies) is obliged to give me. Holding back the payments is really just to kick start a reaction from her side, though for the record, I completely agree with you, that I should be responsible for my son, whether or not i'm in a relationship with his mother and at this moment i'm continuing to pay. Thanks for the post.

I would still make every effort to clarify this and, importantly, have proof that you made every effort. This is in the event that he does end up, at the last minute, on a course and they choose to subsequently bring you to court. Proof that you did not simply cut off maintenance on a whim will avoid looking bad in the eyes of a judge.

Of course sending a registered letter warning them of this and terminating maintenance payments may sour relationships or escalate matters, but if you genuinely have made every effort, then there's not much else you can do.

dats_right

Wow, the level of misinformation here is scary.

OP, you would be well minded not to do anything that has been suggested here.

You are legally obliged to pay maintenance for a dependant child i.e. up to the age of 18, or 23 if still in full-time education, or indefinitely if the child has a disability.

I would suggest that you write to your spouse and note that as junior has now ceased in full-time education that you will cease making maintenance payments from x date, unless satiafactory evidence is furnished confirming his continued participation on full-time education.

You are not required to continue making maintenance payments whilst junior decides what he wants to do with his life. In this event junior should be told to 'sign on' at the nearest Social Welfare Office.

Despite what has been said a Maintenance Agreement is also binding and enforceable.

The Corinthian

dats_right wrote: »

Wow, the level of misinformation here is scary.

OP, you would be well minded not to do anything that has been suggested here.

You are legally obliged to pay maintenance for a dependant child i.e. up to the age of 18, or 23 if still in full-time education, or indefinitely if the child has a disability.

I would suggest that you write to your spouse and note that as junior has now ceased in full-time education that you will cease making maintenance payments from x date, unless satiafactory evidence is furnished confirming his continued participation on full-time education.

You are not required to continue making maintenance payments whilst junior decides what he wants to do with his life. In this event junior should be told to 'sign on' at the nearest Social Welfare Office.

For someone worried about the 'misinformation' given here you're giving the same 'misinformed' advice.

Despite what has been said a Maintenance Agreement is also binding and enforceable.

Where did he say he had signed any Maintenance Agreement?

Moonbeam

*mod comment*

If you do not know what the legal requirements are please do not inform someone else that you do and proceed to give them advice based on misinformation.

The Corinthian

Moonbeam wrote: »

If you do not know what the legal requirements are please do not inform someone else that you do and proceed to give them advice based on misinformation.

Thing is, I don't think there is any disagreement with the legal requirements here, dats_right's own advice was almost identical to the advice I gave, for example.

Larsson47

Apologies for my absence. The maintenance agreement was verbal, there was nothing signed.

golden lane

as he is an adult.....stop paying and wait for her to make the law clear to you by claiming off you..

in the meantime, if your son goes to college and needs some help....help him directly.....

dats_right

The Corinthian wrote: »

For someone worried about the 'misinformation' given here you're giving the same 'misinformed' advice.

I don't believe I am. I think you will find that if you had a little bit more knowledge about this that my advice is correct.

The Corinthian wrote: »

dats_right's own advice was almost identical to the advice I gave, for example.

No, it really wasn't at all.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Where did he say he had signed any Maintenance Agreement?

It didn't but then again I didn't say that it did. I simply made a statement in light of certain comments for example where you said:

The Corinthian wrote: »

One does still need a court order before one legally has to pay

that this wasn't correct and that a Maintenance Agreement is also binding and enforceable.

I appreciate that all of the posters here are simply trying to assist the OP but sometimes if you don't know what you are talking about it is really better to say nothing at all.

The Corinthian

dats_right wrote: »

I appreciate that all of the posters here are simply trying to assist the OP but sometimes if you don't know what you are talking about it is really better to say nothing at all.

Let's look at what we both advised;

The Corinthian wrote: »

If they refuse to to inform you and give you details, I'd formally request this via registered mail.

dats_right wrote: »

I would suggest that you write to your spouse and note that as junior has now ceased in full-time education that you will cease making maintenance payments from x date, unless satiafactory evidence is furnished confirming his continued participation on full-time education.

Care to tell me how our two pieces differed in any significant way?

Pixie71

If you stop the payments, she will contact you immediately probably! So there is your chance to find out what is going on!

James Jones

dats_right wrote: »

Wow, the level of misinformation here is scary.

Yes it is. See:

dats_right wrote: »

Despite what has been said a Maintenance Agreement is also binding and enforceable.

Even if a couple agree on an amount of maintenance, this is NOT enforceable. If the agreement is reneged on, then the aggrieved party can make an application to Court. However, until the Court Order is made, there is nothing to enforce. Anyone challenging this might provide a link.

Jorgp

Hi all,
I paying €70 maintenance a week for my now 19 year old son, he is in collage now, for the last 9 years.
The first 5 years I payed €100 a week and then even €120 for 2 years, €20 extra for braces.
I am on a cord order to pay €100 a week.
I reduced this to €70 myself 3 years ago because I have another child with my new partner and just could not pay as much any more.
Now I want to stop paying altogether because I can not manage the cost anymore, every week I getting more in the minus on my account.
Me and my partner earning about €32000 net a year.
My still wife is earning at least €35000 net as a teacher and she has a new partner and she got the house and and and
I have to pay rent [not geting a mortgage because of the maintenance] can not go on any holiday, no money for it, had to take a credit to top up my current account and lots other money problems.
Will I just stop and see what happen, as when I reduced from €100 to €70 nothing happend.