Romney: Obama voters are the 47% who are dependent on the government

Brian?

Duck Soup wrote: »

The problem is he's not telling the truth. 61% of people who don't pay income tax are paying payroll tax - they're the working poor. Another 20% are seniors, who've paid tax all their lives. Included in the remaining 19% are the disabled, including disabled army vets. These people make up the 47% who are Romney's moochers and takers.
.

You missed another demographic: Combat troops. These moochers don't pay any federal income tax, welfare queens the lot of them.

K-9

Duck Soup wrote: »

The problem is he's not telling the truth. 61% of people who don't pay income tax are paying payroll tax - they're the working poor. Another 20% are seniors, who've paid tax all their lives. Included in the remaining 19% are the disabled, including disabled army vets. These people make up the 47% who are Romney's moochers and takers.

Incidentally, taking as many people out of the tax net as possible has been the policy of successive Republican and Democratic administrations, in order to make work a more attractive proposition when moving people off welfare.

Tax people making very little money and you (a) put them further into poverty and (b) disincentivize the move from welfare to work. Good luck to Mr. Romney if he wants to stand on that platform.

And with the majority of new employment minimum wage type stuff it seems you are damned if you, damned if you don't.

sarumite

Amerika wrote: »

It’s interesting that Romney is being castigated for telling the truth, and Obama is winning the argument in the media because he’s a good liar, claiming the endless entitlements can be paid for by hiking taxes on the top 2 percent. For the good of the Nation, Romney should double down and keep telling the truth, no matter how much it hurts him. What’s really sad is people are actually gullible enough to believe Obama.

And in unrelated news: The Congressional Research Service has noted that the number of able-bodied adults on food stamps doubled after Obama suspended the work requirement of Clinton’s 1996 welfare reform law.

So the truth is that the 47% who don't pay taxes all vote democrat. That of those, they all feel like "victims" with entitlement complexes. That even though the majority have jobs, are retired or military vets, they 'don't take personal responsibilty or care for themsleves'. Try telling someone who gets up everyday for work, does a hard weeks work, pays their payroll taxes and in Mitts words "not a penny more" that they don't take personal responsibility is the truth and see their response.

He is being castigated for making a crude and false generalization of almost half the American population. Mitt was born into wealth and has never left that position, yet he feels he can speak about what people on food stamps think? He can dump them all into a narrow band. Its arrogant, obnoxious, elitist and insulting.

Be like Nutella

Reekwind wrote: »

This wasn't a gaffe of Romney's. A gaffe is when you have a slip of the tongue or make a meal of a message. Instead this was Romney telling an audience of rich donors how he actually views the world. It was the most honest that we've seen Mitt and it spelt out, in some detail, how he perceives American society

Welcome to the real Mitt Romney. At last

yes deffo agree... but it may even be a bit more than that too. A gaffe to most people is as you say a slip of the tongue and just messing up some situation or other with a knee jerk comment or ill thought out response but either way this would still be regarded by the media as a 'gaffe moment'... a single moment where one candidate or other shoots themselves as you say in the foot or in this case possibly directly in the face!

but Mitt wasn't necessarily just being totally candid and himself and totally honest in this situation in my view... he was playing to the mob - in this case a room of rich people (which doesn't make them bad people!) and he needs their 50k cash (prob 500k to 1Mill between them!!!) so he was just pandering to that particular audience to get what HE wants.. exactly what he wants for exactly what he thinks they want... and THAT is the real Mitt Romney.

A business man to the center of his sole..

as a result of being brought up in an undiluted 100% pure capitalist family, friends and college 'culture'. It's all about the deal with Mitt. He doesn't exhibit any tendencies to really believe in almost anything at all in my view he's like a machine, purely built to win money or win benefits for himself. He sees every situation as an easy game of I do what they want - I get what I want! It matters not a damn to him whether he comes off as looking slightly insanely foolish with every bad flip flop or incomprehensibly inane move but in fact he is laughing all the way through all this because he thinks he knows how the system works to the core (and depending on how cynical you are he may in fact actually know) he's been part of it, the HAVES... as apposed to the HAVE-NOTS. He views the world as a table for the rich and well.. everyone else who serve merely to enrich those who can get it from them. He thinks there's only so much room at the table and you're either on the inside or the outside and he most assuredly is on the inside and possibly views himself as one of those few who completely understand how the inside works, how to get there and stay there and sacrifice any unworthy principles such as moral consideration for others or social responsibility for the the purpose of winning! which to him is to gain as much power and wealth as possible no matter what the greater consequences are. Greed IS great to Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.. the difference between the two is that Paul Ryan is an idealist capitalist.. he sees a greater purpose in what he does... he's like Paul Wolfowitz, he feels he was put here to cause great changes and only he knows what the right way is, whereas Romney doesn't give a ****... he literally is laughing at us all because he knows( or believes which is the same thing to him) that money is all that matters, fukc the poor! and win or lose he's set up for life and cares not for greater purpose as Ryan at least does (even if I disagree with every ounce of his being).

Overheal

Doubling down, eh.

What did Clinton just say about doubling down the other week?

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Doubling down, eh.

Personally I think he should triple down.

What did Clinton just say about doubling down the other week?

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman…. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time; never. These allegations are false."?

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

Personally I think he should triple down.

Me too, the more he does the more swing voters he loses. It's great.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman…. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time; never. These allegations are false."?

And that negates all his achievments as President? Doesn't matter that he handed GW Bush a budget surplus, can't be respected because he got a blow job in the Oval Office.

Amerika

briankeating wrote: »

And that negates all his achievments as President? Doesn't matter that he handed GW Bush a budget surplus, can't be respected because he got a blow job in the Oval Office.

Nope, just putting some humor into the Clinton "doubling down" comment (and that concerns his lying, not sexual behavior).

The Bishop!

Amerika wrote: »

And in unrelated news: The Congressional Research Service has noted that the number of able-bodied adults on food stamps doubled after Obama suspended the work requirement of Clinton’s 1996 welfare reform law.

That's unrelated alright considering the thread title.

But seeing as you brought up the Congressional Research Service and presumably respect their nonpartisan credibility, here's something just released from them that does relate to the thread:

A new study by the non-partisan Congressional Research Service, which reviewed nearly 65 years of US tax policy and its impact on the overall economy, has found that though cutting the effective tax rate for the nation's wealthiest is a great way to increase undesireable economic inequality, it does not—as Republican rhetoric so frequently claims—do anything to boost employment or fuel economic growth.
The report, Taxes and the Economy: An Economic Analysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945, found that "the reduction in the top tax rates have had little association with saving, investment, or productivity growth. However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of income at the top of the income distribution."
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/09/17-4

What's your thoughts on that then Amerika? Do you still want to double or even triple down on a thoroughly discredited and failed economic policy?

Amerika

The Bishop! wrote: »

But seeing as you brought up the Congressional Research Service and presumably respect their nonpartisan credibility, here's something just released from them that does relate to the thread:



What's your thoughts on that then Amerika? Do you still want to double or even triple down on a thoroughly discredited and failed economic policy?

I was a bit skeptical when I read: "increase undesireable (sp) economic inequality, it does not—as Republican rhetoric so frequently claims," which you wrapped, and indicated was something from the Congressional Research Service. Just wanted to know if it is the opinion from Common Dreams – Building Progressive Community that you really wish me to comment about?

Otacon

Amerika wrote: »

I was a bit skeptical when I read: "increase undesireable (sp) economic inequality, it does not—as Republican rhetoric so frequently claims," which you wrapped, and indicated was something from the Congressional Research Service. Just wanted to know if it is the opinion from Common Dreams – Building Progressive Community that you really wish me to comment about?

He 'wrapped, and indicated' the article was from CRS? By putting the link to the article from CD at the bottom of the quote?

Anyway, instead of commenting on the article, would you like to comment on its subject: Taxes and the Economy: An Economic Analysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945?

Amerika

Otacon wrote: »

Anyway, instead of commenting on the article, would you like to comment on its subject: Taxes and the Economy: An Economic Analysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945?

Sorry, I attempted to read it, but I think you would need a PHD in Economics to fully comprehend it. I would be amiss to try and give astute comments on it.

MadYaker

His comments were truely astonishing. What was he thinking?? (i find myself asking that question a lot in relation to romney) Did he not know it was being recorded? I reckon this is the final nail in the coffin, Obama is in.

FatherTed

I think Mitt has now topped Clint Eastwood talking to an empty chair in terms of GOP skrewups. Like the SNL sketch at the weekend, I'm sure Obama and his crew cannot believe their luck. Economy is doing crap and he will still win fairly handily.

Funglegunk

MadYaker wrote: »

His comments were truely astonishing. What was he thinking?? (i find myself asking that question a lot in relation to romney) Did he not know it was being recorded? I reckon this is the final nail in the coffin, Obama is in.

He didn't know he was being recorded. That's why it is being presented as what Romney really thinks of the 47% voters, referring to them as 'moochers' in front of a crowd who paid $50,000 a plate to be there. My guess would be he was playing to that particular crowd quite a bit, but even that exposes a deep cynicism on his part. It's hard to know if the guy actually believes in anything he says at any one time.

MadYaker

Funglegunk wrote: »

My guess would be he was playing to that particular crowd quite a bit, but even that exposes a deep cynicism on his part. It's hard to know if the guy actually believes in anything he says at any one time.

If that were the case then why not just say so rather standing by his comments, which is essentially what he has decided to do. I guess no matter what way he deals with it the outcome isn't good. If he goes back on his comments it cements the view that he is a flip flopper who will say anything. Its been a pretty disasterous campaign for him, I'm no expert on American politics but do you guys thinkhe stands any chance of getting elected now? Even with the stuttering economy?

Amerika

MadYaker wrote: »

Its been a pretty disasterous campaign for him, I'm no expert on American politics but do you guys thinkhe stands any chance of getting elected now? Even with the stuttering economy?

Actually I don't think it will be as close as everyone thinks. I think Romney will win with a pretty big margin.

- - - -

"Campaign Kickoff; Has Reagan Dropped the Ball?" - U.S. News and World Report, 9/9/1980

"Carter, Reagan Even In Latest Time Poll" - Time, 9/8/1980

MadYaker

I find it depressing that such a person could even get close to the ballot paper. I'm glad I'm not american.

Duck Soup

The full transcript of the unedited tape, direct from Mother Jones. Warning: it's really, really, really long.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/full-transcript-mitt-romney-secret-video

joseph brand

Funglegunk wrote: »

He didn't know he was being recorded. That's why it is being presented as what Romney really thinks of the 47% voters, referring to them as 'moochers' in front of a crowd who paid $50,000 a plate to be there. My guess would be he was playing to that particular crowd quite a bit, but even that exposes a deep cynicism on his part. It's hard to know if the guy actually believes in anything he says at any one time.

Apart from [insert crazy tenets of mormonism], it seems that all he believes in, is acquiring as much money as he can while paying as little tax as he can.

He also believes that a good comb is a man's best friend. (goes inside car, not on roof) :pac:

The Bishop!

Amerika wrote: »

Just wanted to know if it is the opinion from Common Dreams – Building Progressive Community that you really wish me to comment about?

No, it was the CRS report contained within. The one that confirms what the the dogs on the street knew anyway. That Romneys tired wealth-tax cutting mantra actually does nothing to boost saving, investment or productivity. That it's just more vacuous Randian greed dressed up as sound economic theory.

When confronted with these hard facts, it's not surprising that some will hitch up their skirts and head for the exits.
They'd rather spend their time shifting the blame on to the Democrats for the rise of food stamp recipients while blissfully ignoring whose policies caused them to rise in the first place. Or blame them for high unemployment while their party does everything to obstruct attempts to improve it.

Amerika

Duck Soup wrote: »

The full transcript of the unedited tape, direct from Mother Jones. Warning: it's really, really, really long.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/full-transcript-mitt-romney-secret-video

LOL, it might be unedited, but something still is rotten (or missing) in Denmark.

…we do all these polls—I find it amazing—we poll all these people, see where you stand on the polls, but 45 percent of the people will go with a Republican, and 48 or 4…

[Recording stops.]

Romney: …and about twice as much as China, not 10 times as much like it's reported…

Amerika

MadYaker wrote: »

I find it depressing that such a person could even get close to the ballot paper. I'm glad I'm not american.

Nay on the first part... Yay on the second.

sarumite

joseph brand wrote: »

Apart from [insert crazy tenets of mormonism], it seems that all he believes in, is acquiring as much money as he can while paying as little tax as he can.

He also believes that a good comb is a man's best friend. (goes inside car, not on roof) :pac:

Honeslty I can't blame him on a personal level. I would like to earn more money and pay less taxes myself. If I could do so, I would.

Amerika

sarumite wrote: »

Honeslty I can't blame him on a personal level. I would like to earn more money and pay less taxes myself. If I could do so, I would.

If people were really honest, they'd admit they would do the same.

joseph brand

Amerika wrote: »

If people were really honest, they'd admit they would do the same.

Warren Buffett wouldn't. Although he's probably been labelled a Chechen Communist, by GOP supporters, for admitting that he pays too little tax.

Amerika

joseph brand wrote: »

Warren Buffett wouldn't. Although he's probably been labelled a Chechen Communist, by GOP supporters, for admitting that he pays too little tax.

Warren Buffet could have always utilized this to pay more taxes than he legally owed. And if he did, wouldn’t you think he would be touting every time he speaks about willing to pay more?

https://www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstance.html?agencyFormId=23779454

And I hope all those here from the US who spout off about how we should be paying more taxes, please also take the time to put your money where your mouth is.

Oh yeah, Buffet’s company, Berkshire Hathaway, hasn't paid all their taxes owed in years. They’re continually fighting the IRS so they don't have to pay what is owed.

Mr.Micro

joseph brand wrote: »

Apart from [insert crazy tenets of mormonism], it seems that all he believes in, is acquiring as much money as he can while paying as little tax as he can.

He also believes that a good comb is a man's best friend. (goes inside car, not on roof) :pac:

Looks like he is fond of the hair dye as well. Mr. Vanity.

joseph brand

Amerika wrote: »

Warren Buffet could have always utilized this to pay more taxes than he legally owed. And if he did, wouldn’t you think he would be touting every time he speaks about willing to pay more?

https://www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstance.html?agencyFormId=23779454

And I hope all those here from the US who spout off about how we should be paying more taxes, please also take the time to put your money where your mouth is.

Oh yeah, Buffet’s company, Berkshire Hathaway, hasn't paid all their taxes owed in years. They’re continually fighting the IRS so they don't have to pay what is owed.

Obviously Romney could teach them a thing or two about tax avoidance. Newbs.

Anyway.

Colbert praises Romney’s ‘no spoilers’ approach to discussing how he’d govern.

In a “The Word” segment entitled “Ask Not,” Colbert asserted that Romney has been quite explicit.

“What are they talking about?” he asked of Romney’s critics. “Romney has given some very specific figures. For instance, he is willing to piss off exactly 47 percent of the voters.”

It’s exciting to watch Romney at this stage of the campaign, the host said, because there’s still so much he has yet to promise to not do.

Btw Amerika. Do you watch either Colbert, Stewart or Maher? I'm guessing you don't, but you might watch Stewart.

Amerika

joseph brand wrote: »

Btw Amerika. Do you watch either Colbert, Stewart or Maher? I'm guessing you don't, but you might watch Stewart.

My regular television watching is pretty much limited to news, politics, history and the better half makes me watch cooking shows if I want to spend "quality" time with her (and she's even more right wing than me). Sometimes I catch Colbert and Stweart on the Comedy Channel if nothing else interests me. I don't have HBO, so I can't watch Maher (there is a God ).

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

sarumite wrote: »

Honeslty I can't blame him on a personal level. I would like to earn more money and pay less taxes myself. If I could do so, I would.

If people were really honest, they'd admit they would do the same.

Who's being dishonest in this scenario? Who's said they want to earn less and pay more?

You do love your straw men.

Amerika

I think I just figured out why the democrats and media are so upset with Romney and what's now being called his infamous 47% speech. It appears Romney seemingly pointed out President Obama's entire campaign strategy... as illustrated in The Life of Julia.

http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/

Waestrel

Amerika wrote: »

I think I just figured out why the democrats and media are so upset with Romney and what's now being called his infamous 47% speech. It appears Romney seemingly pointed out President Obama's entire campaign strategy... as illustrated in The Life of Julia.

http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/

I fail to see whats so terrible about that. Seems normal enough from a European viewpoint

Amerika

Waestrel wrote: »

Seems normal enough from a European viewpoint

Bingo!

decimatio

Amerika wrote: »

Bingo!

European is bad?

Pkiernan

MadYaker wrote: »

I find it depressing that such a person could even get close to the ballot paper. I'm glad I'm not american.

Fitzgerald, Haughey, Ahern, Cowen, Kenny.

Wonderful, one and all.

:rolleyes:

nagirrac

In a close election where attracting as many voters as possible is key Romney has shot himself in the foot and most sensible Republican commentators have said as much. The reality is the country is moving towards the center and the Republican party is moving to the right on both fiscal issues and social issues. There is no left in America as Europeans understand it and never really has been. The Tea Party was the worst thing that ever happened to the Republicans, they should have run a mile from them. A short term gain in the mid term elections but long term damage. The amount of hateful rhetoric towards a sitting President is unprecedented in US politics and this is backfiring as whatever about his policies Obama is very popular with a large number of Americans. Although the economy is not great it is steadily improving, private sector hiring is reasonably good (it is government that has not been hiring and laying off workers in the past 3 years) and the stock market is in bulllish mode which creates a wealth effect. Obama will will in a landslide.

Duck Soup

Romney still can't decide whether this is a get-out-the-base election or a play for the centre. One moment he's doubling down on his 47% comments, the next he's - rather improbably - talking about how he's all about making life better for the middle class. A football manager once said that any system works so long as the whole team knows what it is and what their jobs are in it.

In political pundit terms, his messaging is all over the place. Severely conservative? Severely moderate? Or just severely confused?

take everything

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/us-elections/sinking-ship-claim-as-romney-campaign-boss-quits-3235828.html

Romney campaign co-chairman quits.

TwoShedsJackson

It's depressing, but really not surprising, to discover that a politician has nothing but contempt for the poor and/or working class. Romney is just getting caught out more often than most.

But what is it with the multi-millionaires that they devote so much time and energy to ranting about how easy the poor have it?

Duck Soup

Is it my imagination or was Romney wearing spray tan on his Univision appearance a couple of days ago?

20Cent

Duck Soup wrote: »

Is it my imagination or was Romney wearing spray tan on his Univision appearance a couple of days ago?

The other explanation is he was sunbathing with earmuffs and gloves on.

Duck Soup

20Cent wrote: »

The other explanation is he was sunbathing with earmuffs and gloves on.

He'd hold a rally in Arizona only they'd ask to see his papers, please.

joseph brand

Romney got tips from Snooky or whatever that cretins name is on that 'reality' drivel.

Anyway. Did anyone see Ryan get booed for saying that he'd repeal 'ObamaCare'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zogQy5aG0WI

He just, will, not, let it go. It doesn't matter how many times the facts are presented to him, he just sticks his bony fingers in his ears and sings "La la la not listening."

I found a clip of Paul Ryan and some of his PR team, where he professes his love for lamp.

Waestrel

Waestrel wrote: »

I fail to see whats so terrible about that. Seems normal enough from a European viewpoint

Amerika wrote: »

Bingo!

Okay, now we are getting somewhere. What is so bad about European style welfare states? They dont seem to produce the same polarised politics of the states nor the extreme levels of poverty. State health care or free University education is hardly radical by any developed first world standards.

MadYaker

Conservative Americans are obsessed with this idea of self sufficiency, and that social welfare is just handouts for lazy people. They cling to the dead idea that America is the golden land of opportunity where anyone can make it if they are prepared to work hard enough. I distinctly remember Obama being called a "snob" for saying that everyone should be entitled to free college education, this sort of old fashioned attitude needs to be left behind.

Duck Soup

joseph brand wrote: »

Romney got tips from Snooky or whatever that cretins name is on that 'reality' drivel.

Anyway. Did anyone see Ryan get booed for saying that he'd repeal 'ObamaCare'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zogQy5aG0WI

He just, will, not, let it go. It doesn't matter how many times the facts are presented to him, he just sticks his bony fingers in his ears and sings "La la la not listening."

I found a clip of Paul Ryan and some of his PR team, where he professes his love for lamp.

Seniors have a fair amount of time on their hands, so chances are they're rather better read on healthcare reform than the average voter. They're aware that (a) the $700bn that Ryan says Obama would "take out" of Medicare comes solely from the providers and doesn't make a dime of difference to the service seniors get and (b) Ryan himself proposed an identical saving in his own plan.

You might also wonder if there hasn't been chatter amongst seniors about the fact that the 47% of American moochers who don't pay tax that Romney referred to includes nearly every senior in the country.

Waestrel

MadYaker wrote: »

Conservative Americans are obsessed with this idea of self sufficiency, and that social welfare is just handouts for lazy people. They cling to the dead idea that America is the golden land of opportunity where anyone can make it if they are prepared to work hard enough. I distinctly remember Obama being called a "snob" for saying that everyone should be entitled to free college education, this sort of old fashioned attitude needs to be left behind.

that dream is probably dead. There is no more opportunity in the manifest destiny ideal of moving west, a poineering self made man is one who can navigate the IT and smart economies. Hard work does not cut it, modern people need to be smart and hard workers. University is the key to getting eveyone on that equal footing.

fly_agaric

MadYaker wrote: »

If that were the case then why not just say so rather standing by his comments, which is essentially what he has decided to do.

presume he also needs the succour (money) of his rich backers so cannot really publically disown those comments now. It's the agenda they want from him (extra pain for the "moochers" so that wealthy and big companies can have low taxes and a flow of cash from the govt. despite the big US debt pile). Unfortunately for them it is still not yet one dollar one vote in the US!

Amerika

Waestrel wrote: »

Okay, now we are getting somewhere. What is so bad about European style welfare states? They dont seem to produce the same polarised politics of the states nor the extreme levels of poverty. State health care or free University education is hardly radical by any developed first world standards.

I'll let Reagan and Obama explain it from a US point of view regarding social economics.