Pitch Invasion - What you think of it?

LeftBlank

Scrappylad wrote: »

Is this not said every year? And low and behold it ends up safer to let fans in. I have no particular views on this as an earlier poster said I don't care as long as dinegal win(praying).

There hasn't been a pitch invasion in Croke Park since Leinster Final 2010.

LeftBlank

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

If the fans knew they would be let on the field and the GAA cooperated I doubt there would be much issue.Most fans want to get on the field so can can get a proper look at the trophy presentation.

Is the big screen not big enough?

harpsman

My suggestion is a ten minute period after the game for players to celbrate/ commiserate and assemble at Hogan stand after which fans would be allowed on.
If fans knew that they didnt have to run gauntlet of security and also that the players werent still out all over the pitch there would be a more orderly "invasion" Also after ten minutes initial hysteria would have calmed down a bit.
Obviously I cant prove this but think it makes sense.
Do we have to completely sanitise everything in life just cos the effing champions league did it. There nothing like being on the pitch after your team has just won the all ireland.
Finally,Croke Park authorities seem to be happy enough for young girls to stagger about the place,including upper decks pissed out of their heads at Westlife gigs

Happyman42

harpsman wrote: »

Finally,Croke Park authorities seem to be happy enough for young girls to stagger about the place,including upper decks pissed out of their heads at Westlife gigs

If it had anything to do with punter safety the GAA would be flat out and flat broke securing all their grounds against accidental injury.

LeftBlank

harpsman wrote: »

.
Obviously I cant prove this but think it makes sense.
Do we have to completely sanitise everything in life just cos the effing champions league did it. There nothing like being on the pitch after your team has just won the all ireland.

I don't think it would work because there'd always be at least one person who can't wait 10 minutes, and once one or two get on then all bets are off.

Remember when Dublin spent more than an hour on the pitch after the final last year? Doubt they would have spent more than 10 minutes if the pitch was full of fans.

At the end of the day, not having a pitch invasion allows for more dignified celebrations and also shows respect to the players involved. I don't understand how anyone could see it differently.

harpsman

LeftBlank wrote: »

I don't think it would work because there'd always be at least one person who can't wait 10 minutes, and once one or two get on then all bets are off.

Remember when Dublin spent more than an hour on the pitch after the final last year? Doubt they would have spent more than 10 minutes if the pitch was full of fans.

At the end of the day, not having a pitch invasion allows for more dignified celebrations and also shows respect to the players involved. I don't understand how anyone could see it differently.

With regard to your 1st point obviously youd have to come down hard on those and if it didnt work then abandon idea forever.
2nd point suppose its a matter of opinion-i happen to think its nice that we gaa supporters have our own thing bit different to other sports.

Davin Stand

There was no problem with spectators going on to the pitch in Thurles last Saturday night or in Clones when Donegal won the last 2 Ulster Finals. Nobody raised any objection, but it seems to be different in Croke Park. Christy Cooney was the GAA President who pushed this idea and I do not think it will last much longer. I expect to see it gone from Croke Park as well as all other grounds in the next few years.

The Don 1985

cormac halpin wrote: »

At neither game was there 50,000 fans attempting to make their way onto the pitch. It was on a far smaller scale with far less danger. Neither was right, and it sickens me to the pit of my stomach that you seem to revel in your carry on. I feel sorry for the players on both occasions who didnt get the opportunity take the occasion in properly. But hey, you had your fun, thats all that matters I guess.

Cormac, having read this thread I'm getting a vibe that you are a player that has taken part in All Ireland finals ?? If not then most of your points are merely speculation at to what the players want and your bullish attitude in trying to get your point across is nothing short of pig ignorant.

Most players grow up dreaming of winning All Irelands,in these dreams they picture themselves being lifted on the shoulders of these fans after victory, being carried from the field by the fans,to then take their place in the Hogan Stand to watch their captain lift the Sam McGuire/Liam McCarthy and see the sea of green and gold/black and amber/maroon and white/blue and navy or what ever county that may have won. They then get to lift the cup themselves and hear the roar of the crowd down below on the field and take in every last moment . Do you think during the euphoria of having fulfilled your goal at the start of the year, a goal that you have dedicated your entire year to that having fans coming in and congratulating you be it by slapping you on the back, hugging you, that you are going to be pissed off with these fans ?? Fans or yahoos as you refer to them as that have supported you through thick and thin, when times were good and when times were bad. If you do then you really need to get real Cormac.

Never seen such a self opinionated rant from a poster on boards.ie in all my time on this site. You must realise Cormac that not everyone is going to agree with you, it isnt your Mammy your having a discussion with you know. This is a site where each person has a right to express their opinion.

LeftBlank

harpsman wrote: »

With regard to your 1st point obviously youd have to come down hard on those and if it didnt work then abandon idea forever.

How would you propose to "come down hard" on these people?

2nd point suppose its a matter of opinion-i happen to think its nice that we gaa supporters have our own thing bit different to other sports.

There is plenty different in the GAA compared to other sports without the need for pitch invasions. Are you honestly saying that you would prefer if the winning team disappeared down the tunnel with the trophy 5 minutes after getting it?

km79

I reckon "plan B " will be in operation no matter who wins on Sunday

Happyman42

km79 wrote: »

I reckon "plan B " will be in operation no matter who wins on Sunday

:D



I wonder is the facepalm a photoshop job?

Clareman

When Clare won the under 21 I got a picture of the wife under the "Plan B" Sign

Mal-Adjusted

Clareman wrote: »

When Clare won the under 21 I got a picture of the wife under the "Plan B" Sign

when Clare won in 2009, the papers had a massive captain over the article:
"Plan B is for Banner!"

ft9

When Donegal win next Sunday, I think it be far safer to open the floodgates rather than try contain them. They will go helter skelter!

ColeTrain

ft9 wrote: »

When Mayo win next Sunday, I think it be far safer to open the floodgates rather than try contain them. They will go helter skelter!

irishgeo

i didnt see the dubs on the pitch last year, they wont open the gates on the hill so i cant see anyone getting over that fence.

blowitupref

Happyman42 wrote: »

:D



I wonder is the facepalm a photoshop job?

Apparently it's cormac halpin

DDC1990

Pitch invasions can be done safely.

Give the players 5 minutes to celebrate, and get behind a cordon of Gardaí, and up the steps.

Then open all the gates, and let people on.

Write on the ticket that if you get injured coming into the playing area, then its your own fault and cannot sue.

Thats player safety and the legal issue dealt with, and we can keep the tradition.

Some of my greatest memories, are of being on the pitch watching Dara Ó Cinnéide's speech in 2004. Darran O'Sullivan in 2009. Liam Hassett in 1997, and getting my jersey signed by Declan O'Keeffe and Séamus Moynihan. The crowd is always in great form and i've never experienced a crush. Im not saying there never has been a crush, but i've personally never been in one. The worst crush, is when the Stewards (who are doing their job correctly I might add), don't open the gates for the people trying to get on. If they let people on after the 5 minutes, then there wouldn't be any issue with a crush i'd imagine.

I hadn't heard about Gooch getting attacked after the final whistle as someone said here, but in 2005 Tomás Ó Sé almost had his jaw broken by an idiot, who's first thought after his team winning the All Ireland was to assault one of the greatest footballers of All time.

Anyway, just my opinion. Its one of the most iconic scenes of Irish sport, to see the Captain lifting Sam/Liam in front of a Sea of the County colours! It hasn't looked right, and the Captain is addressing an empty field.

Give me scenes like this any day.

Dirty Dingus McGee

LeftBlank wrote: »

Is the big screen not big enough?

No.If it was then fans would just stay at home and look at it on TV

bucketybuck

DDC1990 wrote: »

Write on the ticket that if you get injured coming into the playing area, then its your own fault and cannot sue.

Thats player safety and the legal issue dealt with, and we can keep the tradition.

You cannot sign away liability. Try again.

harpsman

bucketybuck wrote: »

You cannot sign away liability. Try again.

How does liability work at concerts etc?
I refuse to believe that supporters walking on the pitch is some extraordinary public liability or safety issue beyond what happens at venues and events all over the place.
In my experience the most dangerous aspect of it has been people being rugby tackled by stewards or the mad rush as people try to break through lines of stewards.
It should be possible to open all gates after a suitable period and have a reasonably orderly procession onto field.

gronemeyer

harpsman wrote: »

It should be possible to open all gates after a suitable period and have a reasonably orderly procession onto field.

If people were drunk and i'm not saying everybody will be, or on a buzz if their team won Sam/Liam do you thing there would be a 'reasonably orderly procession' on to the field if they were allowed on the field even after 5 minutes?

wow sierra

Running on to the field when there is a crowd of about 20 - 30 thousand at the game is ok as you only have about 5 - 10 thousand at most doing it. This was grand at the Under 21 final or Connaught finals, where it still happens etc. The atmosphere on the pitch when Roscommon won Connaught in 2010 was unbelievalbe.

Croke park with its 80 thousand capacity is just different. I think people are coming around to accepting that - however reluctantly. Maybe I will be proved wrong on Sunday:D

DazMarz

for or against it, I don't think there'll be any pitch invasions on Sunday. There hasn't been a pitch invasion in over 2 years, and if the Gardaí and Stewards in there were able to contain the Sea Of Blue from the Hill last year, they can contain anything.

I'm more in favour of there being no pitch invasion, tbh. Purely because I do believe it was only a matter of time before there was a serious injury or death caused. The scenario I'd see is someone clambering over the barriers at either the Canal, Cusak or Hogan stand and losing their footing. They get trampled and so on as nobody notices them.

Maybe this wouldn't happen. But history has proven what can happen in mad surges of people when they are trying to all get somewhere at once.

And the last thing that the GAA would need is for something like that. The media would have a field day; every time there is the slightest hint of a bit of a mill at a GAA match anywhere in the country, it is splashed all over the sports pages of the national newspapers. The last thing the GAA needs is an article about the death or injury to a fan caused by a pitch invasion.

On the other hand, I can understand the tradition and feeling regarding the pitch invasion. Lord knows, I was that soldier, way back in 1995. coming in from the brand spanking new Cusak stand, hoisted up on my grandad's shoulders to watch Jayo and John O'Leary hold up Sam. Heady, brilliant memories. I'll remember that game for the rest of my life. It was epic.

There are far too many arguments for and against, but the bottom line is: if there is a chance that through pitch invasions that the GAA will suffer a major liability claim... they will protect themselves from that by any means. And in fairness to the GAA, their funds are used throughout the country to further all clubs, so when the GAA loses money, all clubs lose money.

harpsman

gronemeyer wrote: »

If people were drunk and i'm not saying everybody will be, or on a buzz if their team won Sam/Liam do you thing there would be a 'reasonably orderly procession' on to the field if they were allowed on the field even after 5 minutes?

Well, if it was explained to people that if they didnt follow the rules then all access onto pitch would be stopped in future then i think it could be done.
Maybe not but id like to see it tried

gronemeyer

harpsman wrote: »

Well, if it was explained to people that if they didnt follow the rules then all access onto pitch would be stopped in future then i think it could be done.
Maybe not but id like to see it tried

Sure the day trippers who got to 1/2 games a year wouldn't care.

And there is also a matter of future games that have to be played on the field such as the replay of the hurling games and the ladies final....

Lapin

jimmy the car wrote: »

....or are they trying to go down the line of football matches in England and keep everyone in the stands for the trophy presentations?

I doubt that.

Its safer to let one set of supporters out first.

Something I realised last week when both sets of fans left after the drawn hurling final at the same time as neither had the good fortune to remain behind and watch a cup being lifted.

I was in the upper Hogan, and it has never taken me so long just to get out of the ground. (A hell of a lot more than the 8 minutes they claim thay can evacuate the place). It was quite uncomfortable walking through the tunnels under the stand. At the last section we could see the crowds out on Jones's Rd all staring up at something going on up at the railway bridge.

Not moving - just standing there. Meanwhile we were getting more and more squashed in the tunnel as the crowd behind us continued to move forward not knowing that the crowd outside weren't going anywhere.

I never found out what the crowd outside were all gawping at and I don't give a toss, but there wasn't a steward or guard to be seen.

Outside stadiums in the UK there are police officers on horseback with loud hailers telling the crowds to move on.

Perhaps its a discussion for another thread, but it has been mentioned that most of those invading the pitch after a match leave via the Hogan Stand.

Lapin

The scenes surrounding the lifting of the Sam Maguire Cup ten years ago this week, marked the moment I turned against the tradition of pitch invasions on All Ireland Final Day in both codes.

Clip

Kieran McGeeney had no sooner raised the cup, when Séan McCague had to plead with him to put it back down and ask the crowd to push back.

You can see the look on McGeeney's face 0:34 into the clip as the smile celebrating the pinnacle of his sporting career vanished when he was asked to tell his own fans to cop on. It took a while of further pleading before he could begin his victory speech.

Even before the cup was presented, there is a sense of a hurry to get the job out of the way before the crowd below got too dense.

Too me, it marred what should have been one of the more historic moments in GAA during my lifetime.
Also, if I was the parent of a kid who ran on the pitch that day, I'd be shítting it.

I've been to the last few Hurling finals and enjoyed watching the lap of honour a lot more than the old stampedes. And one thing was clearly evident while watching the Liam McCarthy cup being carried around Croke Park in the last two years - The players enjoyed it a hell of a lot more as well.



Just stay off the fúcking pitch and allow McGeeney et al their moment of glory - Its not hard.

DDC1990

Lapin wrote: »

The scenes surrounding the lifting of the Sam Maguire Cup ten years ago this week, marked the moment I turned against the tradition of pitch invasions on All Ireland Final Day in both codes.

Clip

Kieran McGeeney had no sooner raised the cup, when Séan McCague had to plead with him to put it back down and ask the crowd to push back.

You can see the look on McGeeney's face 0:34 into the clip as the smile celebrating the pinnacle of his sporting career vanished when he was asked to tell his own fans to cop on. It took a while of further pleading before he could begin his victory speech.

Even before the cup was presented, there is a sense of a hurry to get the job out of the way before the crowd below got too dense.

Too me, it marred what should have been one of the more historic moments in GAA during my lifetime.
Also, if I was the parent of a kid who ran on the pitch that day, I'd be shítting it.

I've been to the last few Hurling finals and enjoyed watching the lap of honour a lot more than the old stampedes. And one thing was clearly evident while watching the Liam McCarthy cup being carried around Croke Park in the last two years - The players enjoyed it a hell of a lot more as well.



Just stay off the fúcking pitch and allow McGeeney et al their moment of glory - Its not hard.

I'd honestly never seen that!

As a Kerry fan, 2002 is not something I revisit too often.

That is crazy! Seems to be a severe lack of stewards and Gardaí down on the pitch however. This made things a lot safer, as people were less likely to act the príck with the Gardaí standing next to them.

Also in terms of the players enjoying the lap of honour more, thats just not always true.

I have talked to a few of the Kerry lads about the issue of the pitch invasion, and consensus was that they much preferred holding Sam up to a full pitch, then the empty one. They did say, it was awful when you lost though, as you were rushing to get off the pitch area, and players can become a target like in 2005. One (who's only All Ireland came in 2000 unfortunatly for him,) felt that the ceremony was a bit soccer like- down on the pitch, with a lap of honour.

A 5 minute time difference could make all the difference IMO. Let the crowd jump up and down in the stand together, and let the players have their moment on the pitch. Clear the pitch, set up safety measures. Then open the gates (maybe in a controlled sequence) and let people on. It possible to do safely, but a lot more planning has to go into it, and so its just easier to keep everyone off. Its a loss to our game certainly.

False Prophet

Im glad to say when im on my deathbed i remember being on the field the day we won the all-ireland.:)
Unfortunately in the new world we live in traditions have to go for some invalid and valid reasons(like its gone in rugby,cricket etc)
Next you will not be allowed fans from both teams to mingle after games in case something happens(spillane incident etc):(

cormac halpin

The Don 1985 wrote: »

Cormac, having read this thread I'm getting a vibe that you are a player that has taken part in All Ireland finals ?? If not then most of your points are merely speculation at to what the players want and your bullish attitude in trying to get your point across is nothing short of pig ignorant.

Most players grow up dreaming of winning All Irelands,in these dreams they picture themselves being lifted on the shoulders of these fans after victory, being carried from the field by the fans,to then take their place in the Hogan Stand to watch their captain lift the Sam McGuire/Liam McCarthy and see the sea of green and gold/black and amber/maroon and white/blue and navy or what ever county that may have won. They then get to lift the cup themselves and hear the roar of the crowd down below on the field and take in every last moment . Do you think during the euphoria of having fulfilled your goal at the start of the year, a goal that you have dedicated your entire year to that having fans coming in and congratulating you be it by slapping you on the back, hugging you, that you are going to be pissed off with these fans ?? Fans or yahoos as you refer to them as that have supported you through thick and thin, when times were good and when times were bad. If you do then you really need to get real Cormac.

Never seen such a self opinionated rant from a poster on boards.ie in all my time on this site. You must realise Cormac that not everyone is going to agree with you, it isnt your Mammy your having a discussion with you know. This is a site where each person has a right to express their opinion.

Very disappointing to see you take to insulting a poster in your efforts to argue against my personal belief. Not every player wants to be manhandled by strangers, and if push comes to shove they will be more than happy to relax and drink in the athmosphere with their trusted team mates. GAA has changed, its a core belief system group that in existence now, few or any player will take the yahoo option anymore.

Leave them to it, its little to do with you.

cormac halpin

If the Tipperary fans in 2011 and the Dublin fans in 2012 can be held back, and remember, both of these have some of the most knackery elements going, then the gentlemen supporters of Mayo and Donegal will be held back also. I cant understand why people will want to spend 10 minutes arguing with a poor suffering steward instead of soaking up the win with their fellow matchgoers and supporters. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Mr Simpson

iDave wrote: »

There always talking about the cost of insurance because of invasions yet can anyone cite an example of an injury taking place during a pitch invasion?

Yeah, me. Remember all the Stewards are volunteers, attempting to enter the pitch area is endagering their safety and that of other fans. There are regularly injuries caused by pitch invasions.

The Don 1985

cormac halpin wrote: »

Very disappointing to see you take to insulting a poster in your efforts to argue against my personal belief. Not every player wants to be manhandled by strangers[/QUOTE

Ha...that rich coming from a poster who has discribed posting by some posters on this forum as posting to 'birds' or a poster 'sheer lack of common sense' ! People in glass houses Cormac.

Are you expecting everyone to suddenly agree with you on here or something ? 'Oh wait.....I see what Cormac is saying now, I'm so stupid for not getting it earlier. Shame on me, Cormac sorry I see your point now and we all agree with you 100%. Close down thread Mods, this discussion is over we all now all 100% behind Cormac's view. Thanks Cormac, only for you !!!!!'

How on earth do you know what the players view is on this whole situation ? As I previously said, this is mere speculation on your part.

I cant speak for all the players, unlike you seemingly but all I can say is on a personal level if I was to be lifting a cup in the stand I would 100% want the pitch to be packed full of supporters looking down into them whilst lifting the cup high in the sky .

You see another point that you and many others on this thread are forgetting is that these players were all supporters too before they were players and will be after their playing days. Do you think that when a 10 year old Tomas O'Se was running onto the field after his county won the All Irealnd final and seeing his idols up their in the stand looking down on him that he didnt think to himself, 'this is what I want to do when I play for my county '. He doesnt want to be lifting silverware looking down on the groundsstaff of Croke Park on an empty pitch.

I agree with the previous posters who have suggested perhaps giving the players 5-10 mins to get off the field in behind the cordon of the stewarts and then opening the gates and letting all the fans out onto the field. Put a disclaimer on the tickets stating that any person who goes onto the pitch does so at their own risk and Croke Park does not bear any responsibility to those who may get injured while doing so.

Personally I think that this country is just gone banannas with people claiming left,right and centre to get an extra handy few quid, that's the reason for all this H&S lark if you ask me. Their would be no need for half as much H&S officers etc. if it weren't for these Irish Citizens of ours who are intent in making a quick buck. Place is just gone crazy IMO. One word ...GREED but all I would say to the GAA is please dont let this effect our beloved game and let the players,back room staff and their loyal supporters to enjoy their celebrations together on the pitch . Dont spoil it for the players by having them lift their winning trophy up to an empty pitch.

cormac halpin

Do you feel better after your little rant? Good. Now if you wish to put that post into a coherently thought out argument, I'd be delighted to discuss it with you.

Regardless, your opinion, and mine, matters little or nothing as the wise heads in Croke Park have already made the right decision on this and I applaud them for it. I just hope those that wish to harm others in the pursuit of their own selfish gains get sense soon so we can take down the eyesore of a barrier on the Hill 16 end. But as long they continue to act like neanderthals, they will be treated as such.

Hammer Archer

cormac halpin wrote: »

I dont know you, so I dont know why you need to comment on how charming or not I am. I am being generous here to reply to your post given the nature in which you approached me.

So should I be grateful to you for replying to me or something? Don't fatter yourself. You're one to talk when you compare other posters to 'birds'. Not to mention the insults you've thrown around on other threads.

- I wasn't there Saturday.
- I would say 82,000 is far more dangerous attempting a pitch invasion that 20,000 or 30,000.

I never asked if you were on Saturday. That has zero relevance to what I asked. I asked were you against the pitch invasion on Saturday.
Again, the size of the crowd compared to a full Croke Park has no relevance to what I asked. No ones arguing with you on that, yet you keep repeating that point. I asked at what size of a crowd does a pitch invasion suddenly become dangerous in your opinion? Please stop dodging questions.
And are you seriously suggesting that, come the final whistle on Sunday, 82000 will be clambering to get onto the pitch? Very few fans of the losing team, as well as those in the Hogan and upper tiers would go onto the pitch more than likely.

The point is, people wont wait. And why should the players wait for these yahoos to get their moment in the sun? Its the players time, why do people insist on encroaching on that. Its baffling.

If people can be held back entirely, they can be held back for 5 or 10 minutes.

The Don 1985

cormac halpin wrote: »

Do you feel better after your little rant? Good. Now if you wish to put that post into a coherently thought out argument, I'd be delighted to discuss it with you.

Regardless, your opinion, and mine, matters little or nothing as the wise heads in Croke Park have already made the right decision on this and I applaud them for it. I just hope those that wish to harm others in the pursuit of their own selfish gains get sense soon so we can take down the eyesore of a barrier on the Hill 16 end. But as long they continue to act like neanderthals, they will be treated as such.

Ha...seems like a cop out to me Cormac . I mean my posts lack of coherentness is what is stopping you from discussing this matter is it ? Didnt realise it was a thread on peoples grasp of the english language, I'm sure a man of your knowledge will be able to make sense out of my post no ?

We'll see Sunday if the 'wise heads' at Croke Park have got it right I suppose.

'those who wish to harm others'....Are you actually for real ? Who goes out onto the pitch after their team after winning the All Ireland to 'harm others' ....you need to relax man

DDC1990

Hammer Archer wrote: »

So should I be grateful to you for replying to me or something? Don't fatter yourself. You're one to talk when you compare other posters to 'birds'. Not to mention the insults you've thrown around on other threads.

I never asked if you were on Saturday. That has zero relevance to what I asked. I asked were you against the pitch invasion on Saturday.
Again, the size of the crowd compared to a full Croke Park has no relevance to what I asked. No ones arguing with you on that, yet you keep repeating that point. I asked at what size of a crowd does a pitch invasion suddenly become dangerous in your opinion? Please stop dodging questions.
And are you seriously suggesting that, come the final whistle on Sunday, 82000 will be clambering to get onto the pitch? Very few fans of the losing team, as well as those in the Hogan and upper tiers would go onto the pitch more than likely.

If people can be held back entirely, they can be held back for 5 or 10 minutes.

Exactly. There was no problem in Clones with the pitch invasion for the Ulster Final. I'd estimate that the numbers of Donegal fans, in the Hill and in the Lower Tiers would be similar enough to the crowd that was in Clones that day.

Also consider the people in Sections 328-333 will be in the Hogan next the the presentation. They won't be rushing to lose their perfect view of the presentation to go out onto the pitc IMO.

Croke Park is (well was before the glass went up on the Hill) one of the safest grounds for entry onto the pitch.

The amount of Gates they have for Entry onto the pitch is suitable for big crowds coming onto the pitch safely.

I know it doesn't matter because the Gaa have spoken, but there could be a higher chance of trouble with the Stewards trying to stop the invasion, then letting it happen in a controlled way.

Gates Open = People Flow out onto the pitch. You have as much chance to be injured walking home on Jones Road, as you would walking through the open gate onto the pitch.
Gates Closed = People at the back try to push forward into the closed gate, causing the people at the front to fall. People try to get onto the pitch by clambering over fences/ the glass wall on the Hill.

Mr Simpson

There is a potential for injury with a pitch invasion no matter what the size of the crowd, its dangerous full stop. Just because some pitch invasions pass off without incidence, doesnt make it safe. People start to run when they get on the pitch, clambering for the best position. If they were to fall, there is a good chance that they could be trampled.

Its an uncontrolled environment, thats what makes it unsafe.

Edit: Also, just to point out, there was no pitch invasion after last years final. People were asked to move from the aisles, most complied. There was very little danger of a crush, and for the most part it passed off without a hitch.

cormac halpin

Hammer Archer wrote: »

So should I be grateful to you for replying to me or something? Don't fatter yourself. You're one to talk when you compare other posters to 'birds'. Not to mention the insults you've thrown around on other threads.

When I mentioned birds, I was referring the feathered variety, and it was a quote from Friends, please try to keep up.

And I don't appreciate what you are referring to with your "fatter" jibe, I am incredibly healthy, I eat whey protein and work out to keep myself in the excellent shape I am currently in. I have nothing against overweight people other than it disgusts me to look at them, but I would never see fit to make fun of them on an anonymous internet forum, your kind disgusts me.

I never asked if you were on Saturday. That has zero relevance to what I asked. I asked were you against the pitch invasion on Saturday.
Again, the size of the crowd compared to a full Croke Park has no relevance to what I asked. No ones arguing with you on that, yet you keep repeating that point. I asked at what size of a crowd does a pitch invasion suddenly become dangerous in your opinion? Please stop dodging questions.

Of course the crowd has relevance, there is less chance of a major incident if the crowds aren't coming from teeming stands in a heaving Croke Park on All Ireland day. You seem to want to provoke a reaction, both here, and in Croke Park it seems, which is quite disconcerting and makes me think I should perhaps report your post for fear of what you could do next.

And are you seriously suggesting that, come the final whistle on Sunday, 82000 will be clambering to get onto the pitch? Very few fans of the losing team, as well as those in the Hogan and upper tiers would go onto the pitch more than likely.

If people can be held back entirely, they can be held back for 5 or 10 minutes.

People can't be held back, this has been proven in the past, if they believe they can get on the field, they will get on the field. The GAA had to go to the not inconsiderable cost of constructing barriers to keep these ne'er do wells corralled in, this was a last gasp solution and the only one that would work. It saddens me that it came to this, but what we got here is a failure to communicate, some men you just can't reach. So we get what we got here in the past, which is the way he wants it, well, he gets it. I don't like it anymore than you do.

The Don 1985 wrote: »

Ha...seems like a cop out to me Cormac . I mean my posts lack of coherentness is what is stopping you from discussing this matter is it ? Didnt realise it was a thread on peoples grasp of the english language, I'm sure a man of your knowledge will be able to make sense out of my post no ?

Why should I go to great lengths to try deconstruct your stream of consciousness? Why should the onus be on me? I am generous enough to make my points coherently, to construct my posts in a well thought out and grammatically correct manner, the least I would expect from you is that you pay me the same respect. However you don't, so it irks me to think that I should do the same.

We'll see Sunday if the 'wise heads' at Croke Park have got it right I suppose.

'those who wish to harm others'....Are you actually for real ? Who goes out onto the pitch after their team after winning the All Ireland to 'harm others' ....you need to relax man

The wise heads have been proven correct over the last two years when it comes to All Ireland pitch invasions. The Dublin and Tipperary fans both respected the GAA wishes for a safe and calm presentation, and all the players appreciated the gesture, they even stayed out on the field for up to an hour afterwards in some cases.

The tone in your voice saddens and alarms me I must admit, its almost as if you are actively seeking out "trouble" on Sunday. I will give serious consideration to reporting your post over the coming days.

cormac halpin

mmcn90 wrote: »

There is a potential for injury with a pitch invasion no matter what the size of the crowd, its dangerous full stop. Just because some pitch invasions pass off without incidence, doesnt make it safe. People start to run when they get on the pitch, clambering for the best position. If they were to fall, there is a good chance that they could be trampled.

Its an uncontrolled environment, thats what makes it unsafe.

I fear we are banging our heads off a brick wall here my friend, some people won't see the light until there is a death, or worse, deaths.

Mr Simpson

cormac halpin wrote: »

I fear we are banging our heads off a brick wall here my friend, some people won't see the light until there is a death, or worse, deaths.

We may be. Personally I am coming from the perspective of somebody who stewards in Croke Park. I give up my time, free of charge to the GAA and I love doing so. But, I refuse to allow somebody to put me or my colleagues in danger, just so they can have a better view of Sam. I have seen quite a lot of injuries occur during pitch invasions, but rarely do they make the news.

I have also been assaulted and had colleagues assaulted by people who were hell bent on getting on the pitch. People should just grow up and behave like adults, there is no need for you to get on the pitch, why bother. Its not allowed to happen in other countries, why should it happen here.

Also, the pitchside gates are not there to make it easier for fans to get on the pitch. They are EMERGENCY exits, to be used only in the event we need to evacuate via the pitch.

cormac halpin

mmcn90 wrote: »

We may be. Personally I am coming from the perspective of somebody who stewards in Croke Park. I give up my time, free of charge to the GAA and I love doing so. But, I refuse to allow somebody to put me or my colleagues in danger, just so they can have a better view of Sam. I have seen quite a lot of injuries occur during pitch invasions, but rarely do they make the news.

I have also been assaulted and had colleagues assaulted by people who were hell bent on getting on the pitch. People should just grow up and behave like adults, there is no need for you to get on the pitch, why bother. Its not allowed to happen in other countries, why should it happen here.

Also, the pitchside gates are not there to make it easier for fans to get on the pitch. They are EMERGENCY exits, to be used only in the event we need to evacuate via the pitch.

Its very hard to argue with any of that. I think its only fair to give you the last word on it. Thanks for you help and volunteerism.

The Don 1985

mmcn90 wrote: »

We may be. Personally I am coming from the perspective of somebody who stewards in Croke Park. I give up my time, free of charge to the GAA and I love doing so. But, I refuse to allow somebody to put me or my colleagues in danger, just so they can have a better view of Sam. I have seen quite a lot of injuries occur during pitch invasions, but rarely do they make the news.

I have also been assaulted and had colleagues assaulted by people who were hell bent on getting on the pitch. People should just grow up and behave like adults, there is no need for you to get on the pitch, why bother. Its not allowed to happen in other countries, why should it happen here.

Also, the pitchside gates are not there to make it easier for fans to get on the pitch. They are EMERGENCY exits, to be used only in the event we need to evacuate via the pitch.

Fair enough your a stewart in CP and fair play to you for giving up your time on a Sunday to go in and watch the sporting activities free of charge !!!!! I have experienced alot of you stewarts over my years attending CP and the majority of them and this may or may not include you are as useful as tits on a bull and only there for the free ride. Why not leave it up to the guys who are getting paid to do it anyway ? Not as if the GAA are short a few bob and wouldnt survive without you.

Mr Simpson

TBH most of the matches there are of no interest to me, so I'm hardly there to watch a free match. We volunteer our time, because the GAA ask for volunteers, without volunteers the GAA would need to hire between 200-300 stewards per match, yet you would be complaining if your ticket price was raised to fund that.

We do our best, and tarring everyone with the same brush doesn't do much for your argument.

Also you've replied just to attack the volunteers in CP, yet you haven't responded to my (imo very valid) points.

The Don 1985

mmcn90 wrote: »

TBH most of the matches there are of no interest to me, so I'm hardly there to watch a free match. We volunteer our time, because the GAA ask for volunteers, without volunteers the GAA would need to hire between 200-300 stewards per match, yet you would be complaining if your ticket price was raised to fund that.

We do our best, and tarring everyone with the same brush doesn't do much for your argument.

Also you've replied just to attack the volunteers in CP, yet you haven't responded to my (imo very valid) points.

TBH I think both for and against arguements have had very valid points , as were your points that I failed to respond to the last time. To be fair at least you are speaking from experience and not on behalf of the players as some people of this thread have been doing, he will remain nameless for fear he might try and get involved in this again with his sarcastic comments for every situation when he has no answer for a question or comment. I think we may just agree to differ on this one and both parties are coming from different perspectives .

I'm only having a dig at you RE the freebe thing. Nothing personal but I do think the stewarts attitude in CP needs some adjusting at times, not all obviously as some are decent blokes but the others give yee a bad name.

Tell me this , do you get a lunch allowence for the day or anything like that for your efforts ?

Mr Simpson

The Don 1985 wrote: »

TBH I think both for and against arguements have had very valid points , as were your points that I failed to respond to the last time. To be fair at least you are speaking from experience and not on behalf of the players as some people of this thread have been doing, he will remain nameless for fear he might try and get involved in this again with his sarcastic comments for every situation when he has no answer for a question or comment. I think we may just agree to differ on this one and both parties are coming from different perspectives

Thats fair enough, I'm giving my perspective on it.

I'm only having a dig at you RE the freebe thing. Nothing personal but I do think the stewarts attitude in CP needs some adjusting at times, not all obviously as some are decent blokes but the others give yee a bad name.

Some do, but the majority don't. There's no need to generalise, its like saying all Guards are scum, because you got pulled over by one of them 10 years ago and he was an ass.

Tell me this , do you get a lunch allowence for the day or anything like that for your efforts ?

We get a choice of a sandwich, breakfast roll or curry. All of which are muck

DDC1990

cormac halpin wrote: »

I fear we are banging our heads off a brick wall here my friend, some people won't see the light until there is a death, or worse, deaths.

Out of interest, what have you seen that makes you think there is the potential for death in a pitch invasion.

You say someone could trip, and be trampled on.

Someone could also trip on the steps leaving the match in an orderly fashion and hit their head.

Someone could fall infront of a bus on Dorset Street.

Accidents happen everywhere, all the time.

As for getting trampled on, if they opened the gates in a safe sequence (Gates 1, 5, 9, 13. followed by 2, 6, 10,14) people would be coming on the pitch in safer numbers, from different parts of the ground, and it would be much easier to see people falling in front of them, if such a thing did happen.

Mmcn90, well done for Volunteering, its something that i'd love to do personally. I understand where you are coming from with the safety issue, and I know the gates are for Emergencies! :P I was just saying that the facility for safe entry onto the field is there, much like it would be in case of a fire.
As for people that assaulted Stewards. You will always have a bad element, but thats no excuse. They should have been arrested.
Would you not think that the crowds would be better behaved if you told them to wait 5 minutes, and that they would be let on to see the presentation safely? Then there would be no reason for them to assault anyone.

I have done gate security for the Cumann na mBunscoil Finals in Croke Park, so I know what you are on about :P Seriously though Parents can become pretty determined to get on the field to take a photo of Little Johnny with his medal in Croker. Its bad enough with the 100 or so Parents trying to get on, I can't imagine what its like with Thousands :P

Mr Simpson

DDC1990 wrote: »

Out of interest, what have you seen that makes you think there is the potential for death in a pitch invasion.

You say someone could trip, and be trampled on.

Someone could also trip on the steps leaving the match in an orderly fashion and hit their head.

Someone could fall infront of a bus on Dorset Street.

Accidents happen everywhere, all the time.

True, but its far less likely to happen, compared to 20,000 people running on a pitch

As for getting trampled on, if they opened the gates in a safe sequence (Gates 1, 5, 9, 13. followed by 2, 6, 10,14) people would be coming on the pitch in safer numbers, from different parts of the ground, and it would be much easier to see people falling in front of them, if such a thing did happen.

I'm sorry, but its dangerous, full stop. The risk far outweighs the benefit of letting people on the pitch

Mmcn90, well done for Volunteering, its something that i'd love to do personally. I understand where you are coming from with the safety issue, and I know the gates are for Emergencies! :P I was just saying that the facility for safe entry onto the field is there, much like it would be in case of a fire.
If you wan't to, keep an eye on the croke park website, they regularly look for volunteers. Yes, the exits are there, but they are a last resort and should only be used as such, it is not as safe as exiting via the normal exits.

As for people that assaulted Stewards. You will always have a bad element, but thats no excuse. They should have been arrested.
Would you not think that the crowds would be better behaved if you told them to wait 5 minutes, and that they would be let on to see the presentation safely? Then there would be no reason for them to assault anyone.

Its not a bad element as such, its the effects of over consumption of alcohol. I've been assaulted twice and I am not the only one, far from it. Trying to reason with a drunk person does not work 99% of the time.

I have done gate security for the Cumann na mBunscoil Finals in Croke Park, so I know what you are on about :P Seriously though Parents can become pretty determined to get on the field to take a photo of Little Johnny with his medal in Croker. Its bad enough with the 100 or so Parents trying to get on, I can't imagine what its like with Thousands :P

It can be hell at times, but I love it. Sometimes the smaller events are the worst. The worst one I have done was a college final in Croker, only about 6,000 people, but the worst behaviour I have experienced.

.

Peanut2011

DDC1990 wrote: »

As for getting trampled on, if they opened the gates in a safe sequence (Gates 1, 5, 9, 13. followed by 2, 6, 10,14) people would be coming on the pitch in safer numbers, from different parts of the ground, and it would be much easier to see people falling in front of them, if such a thing did happen.


I have done gate security for the Cumann na mBunscoil Finals in Croke Park, so I know what you are on about :P Seriously though Parents can become pretty determined to get on the field to take a photo of Little Johnny with his medal in Croker. Its bad enough with the 100 or so Parents trying to get on, I can't imagine what its like with Thousands :P

If you did gate security than you would know what you are talking about. Having gates open in sequence makes no difference. What happens there is that you get people from other parts pushing towards the open gate and so on..

Furthermore the issue with opening gates for pitch invasion is that you have many people that just want to be first on and they push trough without regards for others. In emergency, people are lot more responsive and they will listen.

I'm saying this from experience of over 10 years working in CP.

People that complain about not being allowed on the pitch are the very same people who would be first to scream blue murder if their child or relative got hurt in the process. They would also be the same people who scream inequality when they are refused entry with one ticket for them and their 2 kids without realizing that we would endanger everyone if we allowed that.

The attitude it's ok as long as I'm fine in some people is so far that they can't understand anything else.