Pitch Invasion - What you think of it?

ProudDUB

jordainius wrote: »

Once the fans are on the pitch, they're not going to leave it until the presentation is made. And it would be a bit daft to make the presentation at least 30/45 minutes after the final whistle, the "one mad dash where everyone charges onto the pitch" would still happen, and why make the presentation when everyone has calmed down? That kind of takes away from the moment.

I think that you are getting the wrong end of the stick. In my first post on the matter, I suggested that fans are kept off the pitch for 20-30 mins after the final whistle. In that time, the trophy presentation is done, the speeches are made, the players get to celebrate and parade the trophy around the ground, with just themselves on the pitch. The fans watch all that from the stands. A lot of players these days say that is what they enjoy happening.

Then, after the 20-30 minutes are up, the fans are allowed onto the pitch. The players who wanted to escape down the tunnel to the dressing room have ample opportunity to do so. The players who want stay on the pitch to mingle with the supporters, get to do that too. The supporters get to celebrate on the pitch and congratulate their heros, just like they did in the old days. The only difference is that they have to wait a little while for things to have calmed down before they can do so.

jordainius

ProudDUB wrote: »

I think that you are getting the wrong end of the stick. In my first post on the matter, I suggesting that fans are kept off the pitch for 20-30 mins after the final whistle. In that time, the trophy presentation is done, the speeches are made, the players get to celebrate and parade the trophy around the ground, with just themselves on the pitch. The fans watch all that from the stands. A lot of players these days say that is what they enjoy happening.

Then, after the 20-30 minutes are up, the fans are allowed onto the pitch. The players who wanted to escape down the tunnel to the dressing room have ample opportunity to do so. The players who want stay on the pitch to mingle with the supporters, get to do that too. The supporters get to celebrate on the pitch and congratulate their heros, just like they did in the old days. The only difference is that they have to wait a little while for things to have calmed down before they can do so.

My apologies, that does indeed appear to be the case now

Syferus

ProudDUB wrote: »

I think that you are getting the wrong end of the stick. In my first post on the matter, I suggesting that fans are kept off the pitch for 20-30 mins after the final whistle. In that time, the trophy presentation is done, the speeches are made, the players get to celebrate and parade the trophy around the ground, with just themselves on the pitch. The fans watch all that from the stands. A lot of players these days say that is what they enjoy happening.

Then, after the 20-30 minutes are up, the fans are allowed onto the pitch. The players who wanted to escape down the tunnel to the dressing room have ample opportunity to do so. The players who want stay on the pitch to mingle with the supporters, get to do that too. The supporters get to celebrate on the pitch and congratulate their heros, just like they did in the old days. The only difference is that they have to wait a little while for things to have calmed down before they can do so.

It should be far, far less than 20 or 30 minutes, perhaps 2-3 minutes at most. I'd say start it almost immediately and snake the entry around the field so everyone isn't rushing onto the field at the exact same moment and those not going to the field have turned their backs and started going in the opposite direction. Waiting so long would ruin the spontaneity and emotion that makes going onto the pitch after a big win so enjoyable.

It'd also be pointless because even after the biggest of victories there's about no one left on the field after that length. That'd be actually putting more pressure on players to hang around when they should be warming down and celebrating together in the dressing room.

Happyman42

jordainius wrote: »

How would this be organised? We assign 10 stewards to immediately sprint towards and form a protective circle around each of the 15 players of the defeated team to guide them safely towards the exit? We keep the crowd off the pitch until the defeated team leaves the pitch? And if it was "just a crowd of people" we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place, there's nothing simple about this.

Perhaps talk to the thousands of traumatised losing players over the years. Nobody is going onto the pitch to cause intentional harm. you need to relax on that one. We have become a nation of H&S sissies, everywhere you look you have the pedantic 'you'll have somebody's eye out with that pencil' type crying. Steward it properly and most people will comply, if somebody attacks or intentionally harms somebody else we have cameras that will indict them, make a few examples and you will quickly knock that on the head.

I put it more down to the few hundred hours of training the players do myself. Fans don't drive a team to success, they have no influence at all. Fans are fickle, almost 5 years to the day before the pitch invasion at the weekend Limerick were booed off at half time and full time by about half of a 10k crowd as Offaly sent them out of the championship. Players of all counties know that they only have the support of the fans when things are going well, and they are well aware that the fans can turn on them in an instant. Players are the lifeblood of the GAA, not fans.

That's a bit like a teacher thinking the school exists to employ him/her tbh. There would be no occasion of the scale of All-Ireland day if the fan didn't want to watch and pay for it. Not gonna happen.

This is quite a cynical view. Both codes have 3 title sponsors who are very well known and get plenty of publicity. The GAA have given their reasons, this has more to do with Health and Safety and the wishes of the players than it has to do with sponsorship. There's no conspiracy here.

I don't agree with the GAA's stance, but I understand it and respect their choice.

The admin in Croke Park not thinking of the purse first?? Hmmmm, that's not what I am seeing.

At the end of the day if something goes wrong, they will be the ones picking up the bill as we have a sickening compensation culture in this country. And that is what has changed. There was a time when people took responsibility for their own actions, if someone got hurt they were more likely to take it on the chin, say to themselves "My own fault really, I took that risk when I decided to run on to the pitch.", now it's a case of; "Oh I stubbed my toe because the GAA didn't stop me from running onto the pitch, good thing I have my solicitor on speed dial.".

They pay compo out for incidents that happen from first footfall at the stadium until everybody leaves, that is no excuse tbh. Somebody could trip and fall down the concrete steps to the concourse....should people be stopped from using them? There is a whole myriad of things that could 'go wrong' . Where is the preventative strategy for those?
It's only an issue in Croker because they want the big televised corporate emblazoned event in the middle of the park.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's only an issue in Croker because they want the big televised corporate emblazoned event in the middle of the park.

I liked when the presentation was made on the pitch when croke park was being redeveloped over 10 years ago. Didnt see a problem with it

macgrub

Happyman42 wrote: »

Perhaps talk to the thousands of traumatised losing players over the years. Nobody is going onto the pitch to cause intentional harm. you need to relax on that one. We have become a nation of H&S sissies, everywhere you look you have the pedantic 'you'll have somebody's eye out with that pencil' type crying. Steward it properly and most people will comply, if somebody attacks or intentionally harms somebody else we have cameras that will indict them, make a few examples and you will quickly knock that on the head.

No player ever said they were traumatised; some said that they don't want to have to deal with several hundred, usually pissed, people running and jeering around them when they just finished playing a match. These lads aren't getting paid to play. We should at least hear their side of the situation properly, instead of making light of their comments by saying that they are 'traumatised'.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Nobody is going onto the pitch to cause intentional harm. you need to relax on that one.

Yes, they have caused harm. That's the point people here are trying to make.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Steward it properly and most people will comply, if somebody attacks or intentionally harms somebody else we have cameras that will indict them, make a few examples and you will quickly knock that on the head..

Again (and I'm quoting players here), many of these quick digs and punches that players receive are not caught on camera.

For that matter, It shouldn't be up to the GAA to steward the place properly or install a plethora of cameras in each stadium with an aim to curb any disruptive behaviour that the players on the field experience. Why should they have to go to that expense?

Happyman42 wrote: »

They pay compo out for incidents that happen from first footfall at the stadium until everybody leaves, that is no excuse tbh. Somebody could trip and fall down the concrete steps to the concourse....should people be stopped from using them? There is a whole myriad of things that could 'go wrong' . Where is the preventative strategy for those?
It's only an issue in Croker because they want the big televised corporate emblazoned event in the middle of the park.

People should be covered by insurance when in the appropriate sections on the stadium, i.e. from the entrance gates to their designated stands. Why should they cover people because those people want to storm the pitch?

jordainius

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's only an issue in Croker because they want the big televised corporate emblazoned event in the middle of the park.

Happyman42

jordainius wrote: »

Tell us where the concern for safety is at some of the regional stadia? There are hundreds of issues relating to inadequate facilities around the country, if these where addressed as stringently as this issue was being addressed I might believe that H&S is the primary concern. I don't believe it is though.

blowitupref

Ronald Cold Planetarium wrote: »

I liked when the presentation was made on the pitch when croke park was being redeveloped over 10 years ago. Didnt see a problem with it

You would be one of the few thankfully that was changed.

Hammer Archer

blowitupref wrote: »

You would be one of the few thankfully that was changed.

Why thankfully? I thought that was better than the presentation in the Hogan in front of an empty pitch with most of the stadium being unable to see it (I watched last years football final from the Cusack and couldn't see a bit of the presentation). I hate the tacky streamers the GAA use for these presentations as well.
I'd be in favour of letting the crowd on the pitch in a controlled manner but if they can't/won't do that, I'd take the presentation in the middle of the pitch to be honest.

ProudDUB

blowitupref wrote: »

You would be one of the few thankfully that was changed.

I'd be one of the few too. When we won Sam 2 years ago, you could see feck all of the trophy presentation from the Hill.

Rightwing

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Why thankfully? I thought that was better than the presentation in the Hogan in front of an empty pitch with most of the stadium being unable to see it (I watched last years football final from the Cusack and couldn't see a bit of the presentation). I hate the tacky streamers the GAA use for these presentations as well.
I'd be in favour of letting the crowd on the pitch in a controlled manner but if they can't/won't do that, I'd take the presentation in the middle of the pitch to be honest.

2 very important words there. Seems to me most fans want the invasions to continue.

blowitupref

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Why thankfully? I thought that was better than the presentation in the Hogan in front of an empty pitch with most of the stadium being unable to see it (I watched last years football final from the Cusack and couldn't see a bit of the presentation). I hate the tacky streamers the GAA use for these presentations as well.
I'd be in favour of letting the crowd on the pitch in a controlled manner but if they can't/won't do that, I'd take the presentation in the middle of the pitch to be honest.

Middle of the pitch presentation with tacky streamers etc.. is too much like Premier league and i don't like it. I take what you are saying but Sam or Liam picked up in the Hogan stand looks more appropriate.

Citycap

Uninterested Orange wrote: »

Pitch invasions are great to see, really brings the emotion of players and fans together. What was seen in Limerick was great to see, hope to see them do it again in September. Don't know what the issue is at Croke Park, I think it would be great to see t every All Ireland Sunday.

If you had played your guts out for 70 mins in the heat of last Sunday I'm sure the last thing you need is some half drunk "one match a year man" from Patrickswell coming in and mauling you

Happyman42

Citycap wrote: »

If you had played your guts out for 70 mins in the heat of last Sunday I'm sure the last thing you need is some half drunk "one match a year man" from Patrickswell coming in and mauling you

Are you saying that it was all drunk people racing onto the pitch??? I meet drunk people from time to time in my work, annoying but tolerable, I just get on with it. Most of those who raced onto the pitch where exhuberant, excited kids who will never forget the magic, the same magic that will, and has, inspired generations of great GAA players.

Citycap

Happyman42 wrote: »

Are you saying that it was all drunk people racing onto the pitch??? I meet drunk people from time to time in my work, annoying but tolerable, I just get on with it. Most of those who raced onto the pitch where exhuberant, excited kids who will never forget the magic, the same magic that will, and has, inspired generations of great GAA players.

the same kids whose Mammy would be the first to ring Joe Duffy because their little darling got hurt in a crush

Happyman42

Citycap wrote: »

the same kids whose Mammy would be the first to ring Joe Duffy because their little darling got hurt in a crush

Just like the place 'being overrun with rabid drunks' I don't think I have ever heard somebody ring about that subject. Plenty of calls about other issues on match day.

macgrub

Happyman42 wrote: »

Are you saying that it was all drunk people racing onto the pitch??? I meet drunk people from time to time in my work, annoying but tolerable, I just get on with it.

This depends on the context.
If you are a barman, hotel worker or just someone involved around the sale or influence of alcohol, sometimes you have to be tolerant.
These players, on the other hand, just gave 70+ minutes playing a game of sport. For no charge! It's difficult enough to have to put up with that in a workplace; why should you have to put up with it after slogging it out for 70 minutes without getting a cent?

Happyman42

macgrub wrote: »

This depends on the context.
If you are a barman, hotel worker or just someone involved around the sale or influence of alcohol, sometimes you have to be tolerant.
These players, on the other hand, just gave 70+ minutes playing a game of sport. For no charge! It's difficult enough to have to put up with that in a workplace; why should you have to put up with it after slogging it out for 70 minutes without getting a cent?

:eek::eek: Where is the evidence that these people are out of control drunks?
If it is that 'big' a problem then they are going to be 'problems' elsewhere and in the stands.... are insurance companies calling for the bars to be closed and people visibly drunk being denied entrance?
Not on your nellie....and we all know why.

macgrub

Happyman42 wrote: »

:eek::eek: Where is the evidence that these people are out of control drunks?
If it is that 'big' a problem then they are going to be 'problems' elsewhere and in the stands.... are insurance companies calling for the bars to be closed and people visibly drunk being denied entrance?
Not on your nellie....and we all know why.

Who said 'out of control'? :rolleyes:
To be fair, many people who attend the games (especially at the later throw in times) have consumed alcohol before hand. However, I never said that this is an issue. People should be allowed consume alcohol if they please. In fact, some of my greatest days out involved having a couple of beers and hitting the terrace (followed by the obligatory 'tub of chips' afterwards).
The issue is when a selected few intoxicated people and sober people crowd players who have no say in the matter, despite the fact that they were the ones who just played the match.

That said, I don't think anybody who is severely drunk should be allowed entrance to a game. It's not fair on the other spectators, adults and children, who have to stand/sit there beside someone just because they wanted to party to excess before the game.

And it's certainly not fair for players to have to put up with it after a 70+ minutes slog.

Rightwing

Happyman42 wrote: »

:eek::eek: Where is the evidence that these people are out of control drunks?
If it is that 'big' a problem then they are going to be 'problems' elsewhere and in the stands.... are insurance companies calling for the bars to be closed and people visibly drunk being denied entrance?
Not on your nellie....and we all know why.

This debate is starting to go round in circles. Of course you are correct.

I haven't heard of any players getting punched etc, in fact the players seem to be all for the invasions. They are a great spectacle.

bucketybuck

Hidalgo wrote: »

Disasters like Hillsborough happened due to overcrowding and high fences.
The only conceivable way a Hillsborough type event could occur in a GAA game is if a terrace was completely overcrowded.

You really missed the point there didn't you. He didn't say the GAA is in danger of a Hillsborough style barrier crushing, he is instead talking about the type of foresight that can prevent any disaster from happening. Some typical Irish like to say "Ahh sure it will be grand", and they are usually nowhere to be found should something serious actually happen. Others tend to be more pragmatic.

Syferus wrote: »

Some fecker (likely a Mayo lad, but that's just me being totally racist) forced a load of us to scale the railing - which has a fair old 8-10 foot drop from the top of the railing to the ground below -

Yeah thats right, he "forced" you. :rolleyes:

Happyman42

Who could condone the end of this. Great spectacle and a great end to a match that meant something to those there.

Citycap

Happyman42 wrote: »

Who could condone the end of this. Great spectacle and a great end to a match that meant something to those there.

Probably high on the fumes from laundered diesel

keane2097

If done properly, letting people onto the pitch would end up being safer than people leaving the ground. Could certainly be done in a more controlled manner than the stampede for the exits at the end of a game. Decrepit old fcukers climbing over the seats and climbing over peoples' shoulders to get through the tunnel at the top.

Why nobody ever seems to fear for lives piling into narrow enclosed usually slippery passages of concrete out of the grounds but the bleeding hearts arrive en masse for people walking through a gate into a field always baffles me.

Letting fans onto the pitch would probably make it safer for people leaving the ground as well as you're splitting the crush.

manofwisdom

Great scenes in Clones yesterday it's really the summer of pitch celebrations and long may it continue.

keane2097

manofwisdom wrote: »

Great scenes in Clones yesterday it's really the summer of pitch celebrations and long may it continue.

Hundreds dead I heard?

manofwisdom

keane2097 wrote: »

Hundreds dead I heard?

That was probably the laundered diesel they drank last night.

MaroonAndGreen

If Mayo win the All Ireland, try and stop them fans getting on the pitch after waiting 62 years!

km79

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

If Mayo win the All Ireland, try and stop them fans getting on the pitch after waiting 62 years!

I don't think I'd be able to move from my seat anyway due to my shock and my uncontrollable tears of joy
I get a bit weepy thinking about the possibility of it ( I wish I was joking cos im a grown man albeit an emotional one )

MaroonAndGreen

km79 wrote: »

I don't think I'd be able to move from my seat anyway due to my shock and my uncontrollable tears of joy
I get a bit weepy thinking about the possibility of it ( I wish I was joking cos im a grown man albeit an emotional one )

Theres many a man in Mayo that will be seen in tears when it happens!

premierstone

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

If Mayo win the All Ireland, try and stop them fans getting on the pitch after waiting 62 years!

They simply won't get on the pitch, it is impossible in Croke Park, I like you assumed that no matter what they said etc that the sheer force of people would dictate that they would invade the pitch, however the level of security there is such that this will not happen, I mean in 2010 when Tipp ended the drive for five and we were kept off it, I can't see it being any different.

InchicoreDude

Happyman42 wrote: »

Who could condone the end of this. Great spectacle and a great end to a match that meant something to those there.

Nobody denies that it is a great spectacle.

It clearly is.

But that is not justification for retaining what is a dangerous situation.

keane2097

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Nobody denies that it is a great spectacle.

It clearly is.

But that is not justification for retaining what is a dangerous situation.

Letting people into the stadium itself is a dangerous situation. Packing people like sardines onto concrete steps is a lot more dangerous than letting them onto a field afterwards. Why not ban supporters at matches entirely?

InchicoreDude

keane2097 wrote: »

Letting people into the stadium itself is a dangerous situation. Packing people like sardines onto concrete steps is a lot more dangerous than letting them onto a field afterwards. Why not ban supporters at matches entirely?

What if you are a player and do not want to be swamped by tonnes of supporters??? How do they get protected from a pitch invasion?

keane2097

InchicoreDude wrote: »

What if you are a player and do not want to be swamped by tonnes of supporters??? How do they get protected from a pitch invasion?

If you take a shot at answering my question I'm sure I can take a shot at yours.

bucketybuck

InchicoreDude wrote: »

What if you are a player and do not want to be swamped by tonnes of supporters??? How do they get protected from a pitch invasion?

I thought it was horrible seeing on TV one of the Monaghan players trying to make his way across the field immediately after the match on Sunday. Instead of expressing his joy, he had his shoulders hunched and looked nervous as a stream of kids and beer bellied fans flowed past him, slapping him on the back and trying to shake his hand.

I think it was Paul Finlay, though I could be wrong, and he just looked nervous when he should have been able to relax.

Happyman42

bucketybuck wrote: »

I thought it was horrible seeing on TV one of the Monaghan players trying to make his way across the field immediately after the match on Sunday. Instead of expressing his joy, he had his shoulders hunched and looked nervous as a stream of kids and beer bellied fans flowed past him, slapping him on the back and trying to shake his hand.

I think it was Paul Finlay, though I could be wrong, and he just looked nervous when he should have been able to relax.

He must have learned to love it so, he was almost the last man ordered back onto the victory bus at the celebrations last night. He shook some amount of hands and signed hundreds of jerseys and programmes and got slapped thousands of times, as well as hugged and chairlifted.
I think people are overly concerned about this stuff, the players clearly love it, heavan knows there are plenty of down days.

And I love the way people who are against this tradition can't help with the derogatory remarks... 'beer bellied' :rolleyes: In fact I'm not sure if 'kids' is used to indicate some kind of pestilential scourge.

InchicoreDude

keane2097 wrote: »

If you take a shot at answering my question I'm sure I can take a shot at yours.

Sorry, I didnt realise your question was serious. I thought you just asked it to make your point......

So why not ban supporters at matches? Well, they are a source of revenue, they inspire players to perform better, the GAA would not exist without supporters. There is always an element of risk with large crowds. That risk should be minimised. And you are not minimising the risk by allowing pitch invasions.

Some people would agree with you about the terraces being dangerous too. I have been in some dodgy crowds outside the Hogan Stand too.

But I have been at concerts in Croke Park and you have thousands on the pitch for them. At the concerts, you have metal barriers controlling the crowd. You cant do that 2 seconds after a GAA match with people pushing to get onto the pitch. Pitch invasions involve putting people onto the pitch without a proper crowd control mechanism.

Didn't an AI football winning captain have to start his speech one year by asking the crowd to pull back? I doubt that is what he wanted to be saying at that particular time.

This thread is 3 pages long. The best argument I have seen for the retention of pitch invasions is that "it looks great". I agree they do look great. But in my opinion, that is not justification for continuing with pitch invasions.

Taffy Kat

keane2097 wrote: »

Letting people into the stadium itself is a dangerous situation. Packing people like sardines onto concrete steps is a lot more dangerous than letting them onto a field afterwards. Why not ban supporters at matches entirely?

Ban supporters at matches entirely? Maggie was a fan of that idea!

Seriously though... what you say is on the button. Consider this scenario:

God forbid it happens but lets imagine that one day there is a big match on in any stadium in Ireland (or the UK for that matter, not sure about other countries) and a fire breaks out. The instruction, as far as I know, is for the stewards and the forces of order to get the supporters safely ONTO the pitch and to try to stop people leaving by exiting the stadium. When people try to exit the stadium in a fire situation, it leads to panicking because exits are narrow and everybody wants to get out of them that instant which can lead to accidents! In the centre of the pitch there is very little possibility of being harmed by the fire, as damp grass (like we usually have here) doesn't burn too easily. It may be problematic at the moment because the grass is very dry and liable to catch fire (hence why I don't hazard a guess to the situation in other countries), but generally speaking the fans would be safer on the field of play than trying to exit the stadium until the fire brigade arrived.

premierstone

Happyman42 wrote: »

He must have learned to love it so, he was almost the last man ordered back onto the victory bus at the celebrations last night. He shook some amount of hands and signed hundreds of jerseys and programmes and got slapped thousands of times, as well as hugged and chairlifted.
I think people are overly concerned about this stuff, the players clearly love it, heavan knows there are plenty of down days.

And I love the way people who are against this tradition can't help with the derogatory remarks... 'beer bellied' :rolleyes: In fact I'm not sure if 'kids' is used to indicate some kind of pestilential scourge.

Did the Limerick player who ended up in hospital with an injured eye like it? Or what about the 27 individual cases that were taken in 2012 against the GAA by supporters claiming that they were injured on the field after a game?

ProudDUB

premierstone wrote: »

Or what about the 27 individual cases that were taken in 2012 against the GAA by supporters claiming that they were injured on the field after a game?

Supporters have no business being on the pitch in the first place. Surely there is a way around the GAA getting hit by the compo culture by putting up signs at pitch side telling people to keep off the pitch, and that the GAA accepts no responsibility for what happens to them if they don't. Kinda like car parks put up signs saying that you are parking there at your own risk and, if you are stupid enough to do something that you shouldn't be doing (like leaving valuables in plain sight) then they accept no responsibility for your car getting broken into.

premierstone

ProudDUB wrote: »

Supporters have no business being on the pitch in the first place. Surely there is a way around the GAA getting hit by the compo culture by putting up signs at pitch side telling people to keep off the pitch, and that the GAA accepts no responsibility for what happens to them if they don't. Kinda like car parks put up signs saying that you are parking there at your own risk and, if you are stupid enough to do something that you shouldn't be doing (like leaving valuables in plain sight) then they accept no responsibility for your car getting broken into.

That is what the GAA have done, thats why we are having this whole discussion in the first place no?

They have activley advised patrons to refrain from entering the field and put measures in place to discourage it.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

keane2097 wrote: »

If done properly, letting people onto the pitch would end up being safer than people leaving the ground. Could certainly be done in a more controlled manner than the stampede for the exits at the end of a game. Decrepit old fcukers climbing over the seats and climbing over peoples' shoulders to get through the tunnel at the top.

Why nobody ever seems to fear for lives piling into narrow enclosed usually slippery passages of concrete out of the grounds but the bleeding hearts arrive en masse for people walking through a gate into a field always baffles me.

Letting fans onto the pitch would probably make it safer for people leaving the ground as well as you're splitting the crush.

What?

keane2097

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Sorry, I didnt realise your question was serious. I thought you just asked it to make your point......

So why not ban supporters at matches? Well, they are a source of revenue, they inspire players to perform better, the GAA would not exist without supporters. There is always an element of risk with large crowds. That risk should be minimised. And you are not minimising the risk by allowing pitch invasions.

Some people would agree with you about the terraces being dangerous too. I have been in some dodgy crowds outside the Hogan Stand too.

But I have been at concerts in Croke Park and you have thousands on the pitch for them. At the concerts, you have metal barriers controlling the crowd. You cant do that 2 seconds after a GAA match with people pushing to get onto the pitch. Pitch invasions involve putting people onto the pitch without a proper crowd control mechanism.

Didn't an AI football winning captain have to start his speech one year by asking the crowd to pull back? I doubt that is what he wanted to be saying at that particular time.

This thread is 3 pages long. The best argument I have seen for the retention of pitch invasions is that "it looks great". I agree they do look great. But in my opinion, that is not justification for continuing with pitch invasions.

So dangerous crowds are ok because revenue. What if we charge a fiver a head to get on the pitch afterwards?

All you're doing here is picking an arbitrary point in a long chain of potentially dangerous occurrences, from sitting into your car to getting back to your house that night, and saying we're going to cut out this bit of it.

The level of danger inherent in pitch invasions is minimal, and you can't make an argument that they ought to be banned on the basis of a minimal threat to safety unless you're prepared to make a case for preventing people doing other things that threaten them to a similar level, e.g. attending games in the first place. If the danger of pitch invasion is too great to be acceptable, then surely no amount of revenue or even the fact that the GAA wouldn't exist without supporters is enough to make the number of potential injuries and deaths worthwhile?

The fact that there has never been a fatality in well over 100 years of uncontrolled pitch invasions stands as a fact. The burden of proof is on the person who is trying to restrict people to prove that the level of danger is significant. If the level of danger for walking from the terrace onto the field is significant then it's very hard to argue that walking from the terrace to the entrance is not as dangerous if not more so, in which case we're back to banning everything because it's a significant threat to peoples' safety.

The only argument necessary for retention of pitch invasions by the way is that people like to do it. If you want to stop me doing something I want to do it's up to you to give me a very good reason why. "It's dangerous" doesn't cut the mustard. There are levels of danger we all choose to put up with every single day because that's what life is.

I drink, I smoke, I drive my car to work and home every day all of which are vastly more likely to cause me significant harm that walking through a gate onto a pitch.

ProudDUB

premierstone wrote: »

That is what the GAA have done, thats why we are having this whole discussion in the first place no?

I am well aware of why we are having this discussion in the first place. However it is not a simple black and white matter. If the GAA don't want fans going on the pitch, but the fans want to and will go on the pitch, to celebrate big wins, how do you keep everyone happy?

That is why I suggested putting Enter At Your Own Risk checks and balances in place that absolves the GAA of any legal consequences of people doing themselves a mischief when they are on the pitch. If the GAA no longer have to be as paranoid about the compo culture as they currently are, wouldn't everyone benefit?

keane2097

ProudDUB wrote: »

I am well aware of why we are having this discussion in the first place. However it is not a simple black and white matter. If the GAA don't want fans going on the pitch, but the fans want to and will go on the pitch, to celebrate big wins, how do you keep everyone happy?

That is why I suggested putting Enter At Your Own Risk checks and balances in place that absolves the GAA of any legal consequences of people doing themselves a mischief when they are on the pitch. If the GAA no longer have to be as paranoid about the compo culture as they currently are, wouldn't everyone benefit?

The relevant act is here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/act/pub/0010/print.html

bucketybuck

Happyman42 wrote: »

And I love the way people who are against this tradition can't help with the derogatory remarks... 'beer bellied' :rolleyes: In fact I'm not sure if 'kids' is used to indicate some kind of pestilential scourge.

It wasn't derogatory, it was simply accurate.

On the TV clip in question, the player was accosted by a man with a large beer belly and a skin tight replica jersey. He tried to throw his arm around the player, who looked at this stranger nervously and tried to push on past.

Thats what he looked like, not my fault he was a walking cliche.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

It wasn't derogatory, it was simply accurate.

On the TV clip in question, the player was accosted by a man with a large beer belly and a skin tight replica jersey. He tried to throw his arm around the player, who looked at this stranger nervously and tried to push on past.

Thats what he looked like, not my fault he was a walking cliche.

I don't think mind-reading through television screens really adds anything to the discussion. Deccie Hannon was on Second Captains last week gushing about how amazing celebrating on the pitch with the fans was.

Even if Finlay was to come out and say the opposite, where does that move the discussion? Some players love it, some players hate it? The obvious solution is to do what they did every year in Croke Park - police form a cordon that only players are allowed inside. Just give players five minutes to celebrate with each other on the pitch then those who wish can make their way beyond the cordon, open the gates and let those fans who wish to celebrate with the fans do so.

Happyman42

premierstone wrote: »

Did the Limerick player who ended up in hospital with an injured eye like it? Or what about the 27 individual cases that were taken in 2012 against the GAA by supporters claiming that they were injured on the field after a game?

And how many cases where taken overall for events other than invasions? That figure has no relevance without the other one. Clones is a ground with many oppurtunities for casualties, for instance, narrow exits loose gravel on steep inclines etc etc. A young fella had a fall off a wall a few years ago and I noticed on Sunday that the wall is still unprotected, loads of other potential accidents waiting to happen too.
Also the GAA generally don't contest these cases and settle (which is one of the reasons compo culture is rampant in this country) If they fought a few all the way then they would discourage those on an easy money mission.