Beech/Hornbeam hedge... not up to much!

paddy147

Oldtree--Why try to purposely discredit people on the gardening forum..seen as according to you and you last post,that you "a passionate gardener and continue to update my knowladge"

Why adopt this attitude of you and only you know what is best???


You need to take a good look at your posts here and on other threads,how you post them and then act towards people,when you try to flip flop out of situations when someone trys to talk to you.


You might know some things but you clearly dont know it all.




PS-Why you attacked me for posting some posts with pictures is beyond me.

Oh and for the record,the pictures posted are pictures that I took,and not taken from the internet,which you claimed about me.

Oldtree

paddy147 wrote: »

No Im not a gardener.Ive allways stated that.

You say you are an arborist though,thats correct??
You ctritcize people for posting here on the gardening forum,due to their supposed lack of knowledge (according to the gospel of Oldtree).
And according to you on quite a few threads,Birch trees should be pruned in wintertime and not summertime.
You want to talk about peoples lack of knowledge and to try and discredit them too??
Can we apply that "lack of knowladge" to your good self then??;):rolleyes:
PS-You seem to flip flop on various threads,to suit yourself and get out of the hole that you dig for yourself..

Holes seem big on the agenda tonight. My point was that you were offering advice without any basis to proffer that advice, as you say you are not a gardener so how do you know what is the right thing to do? thanks for another photo but you need to look deeper into a fellow called "Shigo" who said "Remember, you cannot "feed" a tree, wounds do not "heal," roots do not regenerate, wounds do not "bleed," mycorrhizae are organs, and you cannot
inoculate with organs and finally, wound dressings do not stop decay! Ignorance of tree biology has been, and still is, the major cause of tree problems worldwide."

Oldtree

paddy147 wrote: »

Oldtree--Why try to purposely discredit people on the gardening forum..seen as according to you and you last post,that you "a passionate gardener and continue to update my knowladge"
Why adopt this attitude of you and only you know what is best???
You need to take a good look at your posts here and on other threads,how you post them and then act towards people,when you try to flip flop out of situations when someone trys to talk to you.
You might know some things but you clearly dont know it all.

Clearly I know more than you my dear boy, by your own admission. I have already explained to you that if you give what I percieve to be less than the best advice to posters here than I will point that out.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

Holes seem big on the agenda tonight. My point was that you were offering advice without any basis to proffer that advice, as you say you are not a gardener so how do you know what is the right thing to do? thanks for another photo but you need to look deeper into a fellow called "Shigo" who said "Remember, you cannot "feed" a tree, wounds do not "heal," roots do not regenerate, wounds do not "bleed," mycorrhizae are organs, and you cannot
inoculate with organs and finally, wound dressings do not stop decay! Ignorance of tree biology has been, and still is, the major cause of tree problems worldwide."

Still at it.

Ignorance isnt the issue here at all Oldtree.

Its " your attitude" and how you seem to want to try to discredit people,attack their piosts and pictures and then try to worm out of things you say and claim.


You seem devoid and incapable of holding a pleasant conversation with someone,when they post alternative information to what you state.



It seems to be a case of that "only you" can post information here and only your information should be accpeted.

Thats is a very wrong attitude to have in and on this gardening forum.

Oldtree

I never said "only me", but I am surprised that you dont like being corrected, are you incapable of learning and doomed to repeat your mistakes?

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

Clearly I know more than you my dear boy, by your own admission. I have already explained to you that if you give what I percieve to be less than the best advice to posters here than I will point that out.

Age has nothing to do with knowledge.

You can be an old person,but still not know things.

So age has absolutely no place in this thread.




Best advice eh???

Your "best advice" doesnt mean its allways the "right advice" though.

Oldtree

But how would you know the difference between right and wrong advice? You have, by your own words, no experience in this field at all at all ;)

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

I never said "only me", but I am surprised that you dont like being corrected, are you incapable of learning and doomed to repeat your mistakes?

Have a good close look at your posts then and how you post towards others and the demeanour of them too.So when a person pulls you up and questions you on what you say and post (namely birch trees and prunning them),you dont like it and you basicly mock their intelligence and knowledge on the matter.


You could actually try to be "civil".

Oldtree

I'll be as civil as I can when correcting the questionable information you proffer in the future then, but I cannot recall being uncivil or rude in previous posts or I'm sure the moderators would have attended to me!

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

But how would you know the difference between right and wrong advice? You have, by your own words, no experience in this field at all at all ;)

Nope,none what so ever.And allways said that from say 1,long before I knew you on this gardening forum or even posted to you.

You are a professional,an arborist and an "expert" though,correct ??..(according to one of your posts elsewhere).
But now on this thread its you "got a dip in arboriculture" though.
And you say that birch trees are pruned in wintertime and not summertime.






PS-I updated your LVP solar panel" thread for you.

Just incase you want to have a read and "learn" about the system.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

I'll be as civil as I can when correcting the questionable information you proffer in the future then, but I cannot recall being uncivil or rude in previous posts or I'm sure the moderators would have attended to me!

Re-read all your posts here on this thread and also the "laurel" thread then.


Other people have also pulled you up on your comments and the way in which you sometimes post.

Why are you trying to discredit people and their posts,(namely birch and pruning in summertime),when you also are learning and dont know it all (by your own admission and words)??

I dont understand that,I really dont.

magicbastarder

paddy147 wrote: »

I,ll leave it at that.:)

this was posted several pages back.
there's nothing to be gained by continuing this guys, it does neither of you any credit. leave it.

paddy147

magicbastarder wrote: »

this was posted several pages back.
there's nothing to be gained by continuing this guys, it does neither of you any credit. leave it.

Ok so.:)


Appoligies if you were offended in any way.

Regards.:)

muckyhands

Oldtree wrote: »

Dont think its obvious at all that I've dug a hole. Been a passionate gardener since before you were born sweet mucky. Have had my own gardens for decades, been in thousands of other gardens, got a dip in arboriculture, continue to update my knowledge and have acumulated a lot of information from many other passionate gardeners. I'd say you are in the hole so to speak due to a lack of experience and unwillingness to learn.

Would you consider Crataegus monogyna to be a 'tree' or 'shrub' hedge, as you now put it, and would you still prune in winter given that you advise-

EDIT- I will add now, as I have learned something, this advice is for 'tree' hedges- :rolleyes:

'The optimal pruning time for trees and hedges is in the winter (dormant season) when temperatures and infection rates are lower and when trees are not actively growing, (which includes birch).'

Again my apologies go out to that spring flowering hedge.

Christ sake Oldtree, live and let live.

muckyhands

magicbastarder wrote: »

this was posted several pages back.
there's nothing to be gained by continuing this guys, it does neither of you any credit. leave it.

Just saw this, Ill second that.

Oldtree

The optimal time to prune a hawthorn hedge would be in winter. The fact that lots of the the flowers would not be there in spring following the pruning is an human asthetic issue, not an issue as to what is best for the plant.

I hope we can leave it there now.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

The optimal time to prune a hawthorn hedge would be in winter. The fact that lots of the the flowers would not be there in spring following the pruning is an human asthetic issue, not an issue as to what is best for the plant.

I hope we can leave it there now.

You have your opinion,but others have theirs too.

Afterall this is a gardening forum and alot of people would plant a hedge for "asthetic reasons".
They would maintain it too,as it is for "ornamental value".


Deciduous hedges

Formative pruning: In winter, just after planting, and for the first two years after planting
Maintenance pruning: Each summer



Deciduous formal hedges

Carpinus betulus (hornbeam): Once, in mid- to late summer
Crataegus monogyna (hawthorn): Twice, in summer and autumn
Fagus sylvatica (beech): Once, in late summer

Oldtree

paddy147 wrote: »

PS-I updated your LVP solar panel" thread for you.
Just incase you want to have a read and "learn" about the system.

Thanks for updating that old thread, its a pity all you did there was post photos rather than inform me as to your experiences good and bad, and add positive pointers based on your experience, so i could "learn" from you.

Oldtree

paddy147 wrote: »

You have your opinion,but others have theirs too.
Afterall this is a gardening forum and alot of people would plant a hedge for "asthetic reasons".
They would maintain it too,as it is for "ornamental value".
Deciduous hedges
Formative pruning: In winter, just after planting, and for the first two years after planting
Maintenance pruning: Each summer
Deciduous formal hedges
Carpinus betulus (hornbeam): Once, in mid- to late summer
Crataegus monogyna (hawthorn): Twice, in summer and autumn
Fagus sylvatica (beech): Once, in late summer

What website did you find that on, its not from your own experience is it?

As I have previously pointed out to you you can do anything you want in your garden, but you seem to be singularly incapable of seeing my point of what is best from the tree from a biological sense. You can keep bleating on but you cannot get away from the optimum time to prune trees being winter, as agreed by the lovely muckeyhands. Once you are aware of that then you can make decisions in you gerden to prune at another time either for convenience or asthetic, which I would also inform my customers about when explaining to them a maintainance regime, allowing them to make the choice.

If you are to prune in summer then the best time to do that is after the first set of leaves have just matured.

pwurple

As a disclaimer, I did my hort dip as a hobby by night about a decade ago, so while I may be out of date, from what I remember, and every garden club meeting I attend, everything I do myself, and every from landscaper I know, OldTree is bang on the money with the winter pruning advice.

Not impressed with the paddy147 and muckyhands ganging up on someone making perfect sense with nothing more than snarky quibbles. You almost agree with eachother, but for really minor details.

Gardening forum should be less antagonistic. *shakes head*

Oldtree

I realise that I am very pedantic but my gardening and garden is very important to me and so are my customers gardens and now other posters gardens, so I always strive to give the best advice I can, albeit longwinded at times, and am always open to persuasion that I can improve any aspect of my information and practice, but it would need to be very persuasive at this point in my life.

paddy147

pwurple wrote: »

As a disclaimer, I did my hort dip as a hobby by night about a decade ago, so while I may be out of date, from what I remember, and every garden club meeting I attend, everything I do myself, and every from landscaper I know, OldTree is bang on the money with the winter pruning advice.

Not impressed with the paddy147 and muckyhands ganging up on someone making perfect sense with nothing more than snarky quibbles. You almost agree with eachother, but for really minor details.

Gardening forum should be less antagonistic. *shakes head*

I give as good as I get,with regards Oldtree and his posts and accusations towards myself about my posts and pictures here on this forum.


NO One is ganging up on anyone here....(read all the posts from "everyone" again and you will see)

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

What website did you find that on, its not from your own experience is it?

As I have previously pointed out to you you can do anything you want in your garden, but you seem to be singularly incapable of seeing my point of what is best from the tree from a biological sense. You can keep bleating on but you cannot get away from the optimum time to prune trees being winter, as agreed by the lovely muckeyhands. Once you are aware of that then you can make decisions in you gerden to prune at another time either for convenience or asthetic, which I would also inform my customers about when explaining to them a maintainance regime, allowing them to make the choice.

If you are to prune in summer then the best time to do that is after the first set of leaves have just matured.

And you seem incapable of accpeting anyone elses point.On some threads where you post RHS links,I talk to you and ask you questions.I showed you where it said about pruning he birch tree when in leaf,and you say I have you stumped for an answer....."You have me there Paddy147"

Yet here you are the allmighty and know everything


So according to you on several threads........

The optimum time to prune a birch tree is in wintertime
You prune hornbeam in wintertime.


Information was posted that actually shows the opposite and gives very important reasons too.

Yet you have an inability to accept or listen to what others post to you,contrary to what you post and say.You jump on things and post your posts to suit yourself,you seem to "flip flop" when alternative,correct information and advice is given
You have been given several pieces of information and reason for not doing the above,and all you can do is discredit me and others who post the information.


You personally mocked me and attacked for posting gardening pictures (claimed I take them off the internet).
Which I DONT

IF you would look at your posts here on this thread and the other threads you would see that.........
The only person who is right here is you,no one else and none of their advice is correct..as per several of your posts and claiming that you knoew best.
You seem to be of the opinion that only your information and advice should be adheared to and followed.



So seen as you can pull me up and question me and others (your post saying "lack of knowledge"),then surely I have a right do the same to you,with regards your advice and posts.


Now I have no problem with what you post here at all.
Like Ive said to you a few times,its a gardening forum and we all have opinions and advce.
But I wont stand by and let you personally mock me and my pictures here,and also put down other peoples advice.

Post away by all means,but try to actually post a meaningfull post,that doesnt have any sarcastic and arrogent "I know it all and you know nothing" type of comments in it.



These arrogent comments of being in "thousands of gardens" and being "older than me" and other members....
What has any of that got to do with anything here?????



WE had a nice debate before,but on this thread and the other "laurel thread",you seem to have become a very aggressive person,and other members have pulled you up on your rather rude posts.



You are a indeed a knowledable person and I respect that alot (from previous threads and chatting to you in the past).

So surely you can respect me and other here people too in a more polite manner.


So lets be nice to one another from now on.
Have a good and safe day day too Oldtree.:)

Regards.

Oldtree

I think your photos are very good and I didnt suggest you steal them off the internet, whereas I do if I dont have my own to show an example of what I'm talking about.

My statements are not arrogent just a statement of fact. I'm glad you got all that off your chest, but I think you are sounding a little paranoid now paddy147, so I think its inappropiate to continue this thread.

Take a deep breath (I will too) and lets get on with the gardening and a cup of tea.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

I realise that I am very pedantic but my gardening and garden is very important to me and so are my customers gardens and now other posters gardens, so I always strive to give the best advice I can, albeit longwinded at times, and am always open to persuasion that I can improve any aspect of my information and practice, but it would need to be very persuasive at this point in my life.

Sure every members garden is important to them.:)


And Im sure their customers are just as important to them too.And their posts are "statments of fact" too.;)



Like I said to you......

"WE" as in the human species",are allways learning new things and will allways learn new things.

The day we stop learning is the day we die.



So I say live and let live from now on,eh??:)

Have a good safe day too.

Regards.

paddy147

Jeez,Im only 35 but feel like I should be 70 now.:pac:

Right so,I need to sit back,get a cuppa tea,and a slice of lemon cake too.
Oldtree,Ive had a long tough week,and Im not paranoid at all (no need for that silly/pointless comment either).:(


Kormak...best of luck with whatever you do.:)



Thanks and Best Regards to EVERYONE.

Northumbria

muckyhands wrote: »

Would you consider Crataegus monogyna to be a 'tree' or 'shrub' hedge, as you now put it, and would you still prune in winter given that you advise-

EDIT- I will add now, as I have learned something, this advice is for 'tree' hedges- :rolleyes:

'The optimal pruning time for trees and hedges is in the winter (dormant season) when temperatures and infection rates are lower and when trees are not actively growing, (which includes birch).'

Again my apologies go out to that spring flowering hedge.

Christ sake Oldtree, live and let live.

The winter pruning bit is good "all rounder" advice. Obviously it neglects to take into account flowering trees and those (such as cherry) which are more vulnerable to disease when pruned during our wet winters. But for most trees it is winter pruning that is the norm, let's not get too carried away with who's right and who's wrong.

Birch will send out sap like a burst pipe if pruned when waking up from dormancy, but it can lose a fair bit as people harvest them and other trees such as sugar maple for the sap specifically. Losing too much would slow its growth for that year, probably not kill it. It really depends on how much you'd be pruning back - a few small branches should be fine, but more heavy pruning and I'd leave it till it wasn't so full of sap.

muckyhands

Northumbria wrote: »

The winter pruning bit is good "all rounder" advice. Obviously it neglects to take into account flowering trees and those (such as cherry) which are more vulnerable to disease when pruned during our wet winters. But for most trees it is winter pruning that is the norm, let's not get too carried away with who's right and who's wrong.

Birch will send out sap like a burst pipe if pruned when waking up from dormancy, but it can lose a fair bit as people harvest them and other trees such as sugar maple for the sap specifically. Losing too much would slow its growth for that year, probably not kill it. It really depends on how much you'd be pruning back - a few small branches should be fine, but more heavy pruning and I'd leave it till it wasn't so full of sap.

Thats exactly the thing Northumbria- there is no right or wrong as such when it comes to pruning, only reasons for pruning in the first place and making choices that allow you to accomplish what it is you want to achieve.

There is no 'one rule fits all' that can be used across the board for all horticultural disciplines.

To do so could all too easily result in a very unhappy person who asked advice regarding whatever it may be, my example was a spring flowering hedge, in which case you wouldnt be invited back to prune it a second time if you pruned in such a way as to remove the flowering wood when a spring flowering hedge is what they wanted to have.

Thats what I was trying to say.

I dont believe anyone was ganging up on anyone, just trying to put their point of view across.

Oldtree

Northumbria wrote: »

The winter pruning bit is good "all rounder" advice. Obviously it neglects to take into account flowering trees and those (such as cherry) which are more vulnerable to disease when pruned during our wet winters. But for most trees it is winter pruning that is the norm, let's not get too carried away with who's right and who's wrong.

Birch will send out sap like a burst pipe if pruned when waking up from dormancy, but it can lose a fair bit as people harvest them and other trees such as sugar maple for the sap specifically. Losing too much would slow its growth for that year, probably not kill it. It really depends on how much you'd be pruning back - a few small branches should be fine, but more heavy pruning and I'd leave it till it wasn't so full of sap.

Cherry is Prunus and the old joke is "no prune us". If you have to prune a cherry then it was planted in the wrong place by someone who did not look up how big it was going to get. Flowering trees will lose flowers when pruned at any time of the year.

Shigo was of the mind that Birch Bleeding was an asthetic issue only and that the correct pruning technique was what was important, but no pruning in autumn or spring.

If I did not inform a customer as to best time to prune a spring flowering shrub hedge and allow them to make the decision to prune or not in winter then I wouldnt be giving a very good service. the same would apply to a hawthorn hedge. The best time to prune shrubs is just after flowering and I've said that before on other threads.

Northumbria I take it that by "not so full of sap" you would mean in the depths of winter in the dormant season?

It is not a question of right or wrong it is a question of what the foremost minds in this field are putting forward as best practice, us learning from them and implementing that advice.

There are many issues and considerations to take into account when deciding to prune a tree, and how to prune it. But denying best practice is another matter.

Northumbria

Cherry is Prunus and the old joke is "no prune us". If you have to prune a cherry then it was planted in the wrong place by someone who did not look up how big it was going to get. Flowering trees will lose flowers when pruned at any time of the year.

These days it is probably better to go for one on a dwarfing rootstock or go for a smaller species. Prunus avium ("Wild Cherry") can make massive trees.
Trees on rootstock don't last as long, but they should last for the whole time you own the house if looked after though - who cares about the next owners anyway.

The best time to prune shrubs is just after flowering and I've said that before on other threads.

Some species do seem to respond well to this. I know there are some flowers where the advice is to dead head them to stop energy being wasted on seed production.
Some trees respond well to lots of pruning anyway. I have a willow that I used to practice pollarding and coppicing on and it usually sends up 4 very vigorous shoots from each branch that is cut and so gets thicker the more it is pruned. As it is willow I was never concerned about the correct time of year, the only time it really bled though was spring.

Northumbria I take it that by "not so full of sap" you would mean in the depths of winter in the dormant season?

Yes, most plants go dormant in winter. It's when I shall be pruning my grape vines.
Plants sometimes use roots as storage organs over winter. When snow is on the ground then the sap should be absent from the branches. That is my rough guide anyway. If there were a lot of sap in the branches then it would freeze and you'd see trees cracking whenever we got some snow fall. Some exotic species such as figs sometimes do this if you fertilise and water too much in autumn and if the temperatures stay mild.