Beech/Hornbeam hedge... not up to much!

Oldtree

I have a red hawthorn that isnt doing well on a grafted rootstock. It "fell over" after about 6 years and i have it propped now but the crown is too large I think to take away the props yet (4 years later) as I feel a lot of the support roots were damaged and broken. I couldnt bring myself to prune back the crown, which I should probably have done.

have a few willows that I experiment on too. I got a few thick sticks to see how big a cutting I could root, and you can root quite a big branch. i pollard them too and use the shoots for more cuttings for a copice I'm making.

Would love to grow grapes here but I'm even having trouble with tomatoes at the moment with the weather changing. Ive grown a fig in a pot on a south facing windowsil for a few years but it died in the end, at the moment Im having fun with a pineapple, should be ready by xmas.

We had very severe problems here with escalonia and griselina hedges getting wiped out probably from the freeze and quick defrost problem ringbarking them. We had -17 jumping to +10 the next day here last winter

yellowlabrador

Oldtree wrote: »

Would love to grow grapes here but I'm even having trouble with tomatoes at the moment with the weather changing. Ive grown a fig in a pot on a south facing windowsil for a few years but it died in the end, at the moment Im having fun with a pineapple, should be ready by xmas.

We had very severe problems here with escalonia and griselina hedges getting wiped out probably from the freeze and quick defrost problem ringbarking them. We had -17 jumping to +10 the next day here last winter

My tomatoes weren't up to much either and I also had blight on them but my grapevine didn't do too badly. The grapes are glorious and I have enough from 1 vine to give some to all my friends and neighbours. It's in a poly tunnel and about 10 years old (from cutting) it's a black hamburg.
I've lost quite a few plants in the past 2 years due to frost so I know what you mean.

Northumbria

I have a red hawthorn that isnt doing well on a grafted rootstock. It "fell over" after about 6 years and i have it propped now but the crown is too large I think to take away the props yet (4 years later) as I feel a lot of the support roots were damaged and broken. I couldnt bring myself to prune back the crown, which I should probably have done.

Yes, that's the major problem with grafting - Britain and Ireland are windy countries and a graft is a weak spot.
The problem is that hawthorn doesn't root easily and any seeds from red hawthorn might not come true to type. In most cases the graft should hold though, the tree must have got too big for the graft as you say.

have a few willows that I experiment on too. I got a few thick sticks to see how big a cutting I could root, and you can root quite a big branch. i pollard them too and use the shoots for more cuttings for a copice I'm making.

I used them for green fodder. When I used to raise rabbits it was good to vary their diet. They loved eating the leaves which are full of all sorts of good stuff (including natural pain killers) and nibbling on the bark to keep their teeth decent. And unlike other trees, willow can replace the lost branches in a matter of weeks. That's why I love willows so much, now if only we could get apple trees to grow as easily.

Would love to grow grapes here but I'm even having trouble with tomatoes at the moment with the weather changing.

I had a few cherry tomatoes growing outside all year. They did well, but ripening was slow. Cherry ones are probably a bit easier on account of their smaller size.
My grape vine went in this year but had some bunches on it. They didn't get very big on account of the poor weather and because the vine only went in this year. The problem in our climate is sunlight - they're not very efficient at photosynthesis - they only convert about 10% of sunlight. Plant breeders need to select ones more efficient at photosynthesis if we are to push their cultivation northwards.
In England they typically do fine in the south but have mixed results in the north. Still a lovely plant though regardless of whether they have grapes on or not. They grow very fast. The only grape varieties that grow well in the English climate are seeded varieties anyway, but a few seedless ones from America are starting to arrive.

Ive grown a fig in a pot on a south facing windowsil for a few years but i died in the end, at the moment Im having fun with a pineapple, should be ready by xmas.

Good luck.

paddy147

muckyhands wrote: »

Thats exactly the thing Northumbria- there is no right or wrong as such when it comes to pruning, only reasons for pruning in the first place and making choices that allow you to accomplish what it is you want to achieve.

There is no 'one rule fits all' that can be used across the board for all horticultural disciplines.

To do so could all too easily result in a very unhappy person who asked advice regarding whatever it may be, my example was a spring flowering hedge, in which case you wouldnt be invited back to prune it a second time if you pruned in such a way as to remove the flowering wood when a spring flowering hedge is what they wanted to have.

Thats what I was trying to say.

I dont believe anyone was ganging up on anyone, just trying to put their point of view across.

+1.....:)

Oldtree

Northumbria wrote: »

Yes, that's the major problem with grafting - Britain and Ireland are windy countries and a graft is a weak spot.
The problem is that hawthorn doesn't root easily and any seeds from red hawthorn might not come true to type. In most cases the graft should hold though, the tree must have got too big for the graft as you say.

I used them for green fodder. When I used to raise rabbits it was good to vary their diet. They loved eating the leaves which are full of all sorts of good stuff (including natural pain killers) and nibbling on the bark to keep their teeth decent. And unlike other trees, willow can replace the lost branches in a matter of weeks. That's why I love willows so much, now if only we could get apple trees to grow as easily.

I had a few cherry tomatoes growing outside all year. They did well, but ripening was slow. Cherry ones are probably a bit easier on account of their smaller size.
My grape vine went in this year but had some bunches on it. They didn't get very big on account of the poor weather and because the vine only went in this year. The problem in our climate is sunlight - they're not very efficient at photosynthesis - they only convert about 10% of sunlight. Plant breeders need to select ones more efficient at photosynthesis if we are to push their cultivation northwards.
In England they typically do fine in the south but have mixed results in the north. Still a lovely plant though regardless of whether they have grapes on or not. They grow very fast. The only grape varieties that grow well in the English climate are seeded varieties anyway, but a few seedless ones from America are starting to arrive.
Good luck.

The graft is fine I think the crown just outgrew what the roots were alble to handle here with the wind, I have two neighbours with the same plant same problem. I have rooted a cutting of pauls scarlet 6 years ago, which struck, but I looked at it yesterday and it is much slower to come, probably half the speed of hawthorn cuttings.

Wasnt willow used as a natural asprin before asprin cane along. I have 7 types of willow and yes I have to agree love the plant, so versitile.

I only grow cherry tomatoes as they are so sweet and the kids love them, theyrerely make it to the house from the polytunnel. tried larger ones a few years back but they didnt like the conditions and split. It used to get very hot in there over 40 degrees at times, but not lately.

My wifes uncle grows vines up in dublin I'll have to find out the variety, but it is a different climate upi there.

Northumbria

Wasnt willow used as a natural asprin before asprin cane along. I have 7 types of willow and yes I have to agree love the plant, so versitile.

Yeah, I think so. Aspen has similar properties, I think it's where aspirin gets its name from.

I've tried to get cuttings to root in water and wet soil. One did send roots out in water before, but it died a few days after. I have a Corkscrew willow - it's a very ornamental tree. It only cost £2 as twiggy sapling and grew to ten foot in 3 years!

Here are some pictures of them, my camera is broken so these are from the net:







It's got to be the easiest plant I've ever grown - I cut a few branches off occasionally, otherwise I clip it like a hedge to keep it from getting any bigger.

It used to get very hot in there over 40 degrees at times, but not lately.

Yes, I've notice how efficient polytunnels are when there's a bit of sun around.

Oldtree

Didnt know that about aspen and asprin. I have a line of them planted by a previous farmer/gardner over 75 years ago, dated as a neighbour used to visit the farmer to help him when he was young and remembers the trees by the lovely sound they make in the wind. I have let the runners come up in adjoining fields, they used to be cut every year.

I heard about Pando a dacade ago, its one of the largest organisms on the planet, its mind boggeling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree)

kormak

I just re-read this thread again and am quite simply amazed that the Mods allowed it to go off topic SEVERAL different times...
I've had my fair share of run-ins with Mods on various forums on Boards.ie, where quite frankly I felt they were clannish, trigger-happy, power mad at times!!
When you'd want them to do what they meant to do... "Moderate" ... you get zilch!

JJJJNR

Folks, following on from an earlier post is it ok to replant/move hornbeam at this time of year, I've decided to put in a fence and would like to move the hedge a foot or so and at the same time hopefully fix it once and for all.

Oldtree

Depending on how big a plant is you intend to move, as long as you take a big enough rootball with the plant and water it in you should be ok. But ideally if you could wait till the dormant season it may be better in the long run.

JJJJNR

Had to come out today and there sitting in the front garden, fence is going in tomorrow so need help with this, I need to plant them this week, its going to be Friday afternoon (rain or shine) when they go in, so what do I need to do to get the best results for this hedge.

I mixed in nitrogen the first time around I guess that was a bad idea, ok, will mixing soil and compost + anything else work. At this stage I'm thinking of getting a gardener in to do it as I need them to look professional and neat.

Oldtree

JJJJNR wrote: »

Had to come out today and there sitting in the front garden, fence is going in tomorrow so need help with this, I need to plant them this week, its going to be Friday afternoon (rain or shine) when they go in, so what do I need to do to get the best results for this hedge.

I mixed in nitrogen the first time around I guess that was a bad idea, ok, will mixing soil and compost + anything else work. At this stage I'm thinking of getting a gardener in to do it as I need them to look professional and neat.

might be best if you want it looking good immediatly.

periodictable

kormak wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Just wanted to run these concerns passed the experts!
I planted 70 beech & hornbeam hedges in November 2010. (1 month before one of the biggest freezes in decades!!)
For the most part they survived, with approx 10 plants dieing.
They're still growing 2 years later but are not up to much. I appreciate that beech hedging is a slow grower, but I get the feeling my plants are struggling somehow...
I bought the plants from Future Forests as 1-2' bare roots and planted 18" apart with a compost and manure mix.
I spread mulch down every so often to keep the weeds/grass at bay...
The ground in my garden is quite rocky and I came across a number of large boulders when planting the roots...
Some of the plants have a bit of foliage now, which you can see from the pics... but others are alive but practically leafless.
What are my next steps regarding this hedge?? do I sit wand wait... can I try and prune some of these to promote bushier plants and if so, when should I be doing this??
Appreciate any hints/tips and advice you can give me!!

Thanks

photos:

Wondering igf there isn't a problem with your mulching system-I's take it up, put in a good layer of well rotted manure, leave it a couple of weeks, then recover with the mulch.
Is there a bit of exposure/windswept terrain nearby? It wasa tough year when you planted, so possibly a some damage, but they ought to be pulling away by now.

kormak

So, I go to a gardening shop looking for well rotted manure for my hedging replacements and get speaking to the owner.
This guy knows my soil type very well as we also lives in the immediate locality
He reckons because there's so much rock in the area, the soil tends to have drainage problems and tends to hold on to too much water. This he believes could case hedging to fail...
He didn't believe animal manure would be of any benefit, just use peatmoss with topsoil mixed through it.
He also suggests that I dig down a good 2 ft if needs be where I will almost certainly meet rock... then get rid of the existing soil and use the new mix.
He commented that I could remove the microfibre as it's probably retaining moisture and just use mulch instead.
Rather than going for bare-roots, I bought some well established potted beech hedge instead.
They look good and healthy so hopefully these will stand the test...
I also asked about pruning once planted and he reckoned it wasn't necessary for the first couple of years, let them get settled first.

anyone have any points to take with this? (I'm certain that people will have their 2 cents in here!!)
Can anyone recommend anything else I can add to promote drainage such as perlite or would this cause more complications?
Also, I was pondering planting them at the wknd, however forecast is for cold weather, potential frost... will I need to put anything down once the plants are in? like fleece etc...

Oh and finally, I would be keen to put up some sort of mesh on the fence as t's quite an exposed area... anyone know where I can get this stuff at a decent price??