Brake lights in the "overtaking lane", slow lane almost empty

Rabidlamb

I drive the M7 northbound every morning where I get off at Naas, the outside lane is always packed cause of the odd truck & slower vehicle in the inside lane.
Everyone is frightened of their lives to pull back in for fear of getting trapped in the slow convoy.
All the tailgating in the fast lane means one tap of the brakes up ahead & cars squirming all over the road 200 metres back.
Yesterday I had to pull onto the hard shoulder to give a car an escape route from an rear ender.
At the same time the nearly empty slow lane is perfect for undertaking.

I'm sure this activity is replicated on every dual carriageway in Ireland, Guards don't have the resources to police it & if they did only 1 in 100 would ever be caught.
Natural instinct means we always want to be front of the queue, whether it's Tesco checkouts or the motorway our reactions are the same.
Is there any way of limiting the effect of this competitive instinct & make multi-lane driving safer ?.

Anan1

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Is there any way of limiting the effect of this competitive instinct & make multi-lane driving safer ?.

Education and enforcement.

username123

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Natural instinct means we always want to be front of the queue, whether it's Tesco checkouts or the motorway our reactions are the same.

Completely disagree, Ive no problem not being at the front - whether in Tesco or a motorway. Its an issue for some drivers only.

shedweller

I may be mistaken but don't the rules of the road state that you can overtake on the left if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly (or words to that effect)

Boscoirl

the left most lane of the N7 is like your own private road into Dublin

Atomic Pineapple

shedweller wrote: »

I may be mistaken but don't the rules of the road state that you can overtake on the left if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly (or words to that effect)

Slow moving should be changed to crawl speed, 80 - 100km/h is not slow moving traffic.

H3llR4iser

shedweller wrote: »

I may be mistaken but don't the rules of the road state that you can overtake on the left if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly (or words to that effect)

In most of the EU it's technically "passing", which means that if you are in the normal driving lane and there is a car (or queue of) going slower than you in the overtaking lane, you can just go through; What is forbidden is to drive up behind a slower car in the overtaking lane lane, move over to the driving one, overtake and move back into the overtaking lane.

I shall add that it works very well if the traffic is intense enough to form a queue but not so intense that there are no gaps; Of course, you have to keep your eyes peeled for idiots that suddenly decide they want to go back in the proper lane. Ah, sometimes it makes for a funny domino effect: the people clogging the overtaking lane see you sail past on the left and switch over, one after the other...talk about herd mentality.

Wetbench4

My understanding is, if someone is not travelling at the max speed limit and they are hogging the overtake lane, i can and will pass them on the left, at what ever the speed limit is. Say if im plodding along at 120kph(in a 120 zone) in the left lane and i come up on someone doing 100kph in the right lane, if my lane on the left is clear then why should i have to slow down because of an idiot driving incorrectly in the other lane?

mitosis

The simple solution would be to allow passing left or right on a three lane road. Without making that change we need to include a couple of hours M-Way driving pre-test and test it.

@Wetbench4, like it or not, you may not pass a car that is in the extreme right lane unless it is almost stopped in a queue. So, in your example the best you can do is move out behind the lane hogger and hope he gets out of the way.

giant_midget

I think normal common sense applies, If a car to the left of you is travelling faster you are a dickhead and should move over

Dr Turk Turkelton

Wetbench4 wrote: »

My understanding is, if someone is not travelling at the max speed limit and they are hogging the overtake lane, i can and will pass them on the left, at what ever the speed limit is. Say if im plodding along at 120kph(in a 120 zone) in the left lane and i come up on someone doing 100kph in the right lane, if my lane on the left is clear then why should i have to slow down because of an idiot driving incorrectly in the other lane?

Why not flash your lights and keep your hand on the horn to "educate" them!!!

blindsider

It's called 'undertaking' for a reason - it's highly dangerous and illegal.

If spotted, you will be pulled immediately and no amount of arguing will get you off.

Atomic Pineapple

Wetbench4 wrote: »

My understanding is, if someone is not travelling at the max speed limit and they are hogging the overtake lane, i can and will pass them on the left, at what ever the speed limit is. Say if im plodding along at 120kph(in a 120 zone) in the left lane and i come up on someone doing 100kph in the right lane, if my lane on the left is clear then why should i have to slow down because of an idiot driving incorrectly in the other lane?

Legally your in the wrong there.

Cookie_Monster

blindsider wrote: »

It's called 'undertaking' for a reason - it's highly dangerous and illegal.

how come it's only highly dangerous in some countries? I mean they wouldn't make it legal if it wasn't fine to do would they

Wetbench4

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

Why not flash your lights and keep your hand on the horn to "educate" them!!!

How would this educate them? I'm talking about people who drive/lane hog on the right when there is no cars in the left lane. This is wrong. Its bad enough when they travel at the speed limit, but when they travel lower than speed limit they create tailbacks. Like the above poster said, its not undertaking if the traffic in the over take lane is driving slowly, or slower than the speed limit.

You can fail your test for driving too much below the speed limit, they call it lack of progression or something strange like that.

I set my cruise to whatever the speed limit is and drive in the left lane. When i come up on slower people(in the left lane) , i pass on the right, as i should. If i come up on someone slower in the right lane, i give them plenty of time to get back in the correct lane, but im not going to wait all day, nor should i or the rest of the traffic behind this person.

i'm on about two lane motorways here btw.


PS: Why exactly is it more dangerous to pass a car on its left side more than the right side, travelling at same difference of speed. All cars have mirrors on both sides with equal amount of view on each, just curious of the technical reason. Aren't left hand drive cars allowed drive on a motorway too?

RootX

Wetbench4 wrote: »

If i come up on someone slower in the right lane, i give them plenty of time to get back in the correct lane, but im not going to wait all day, nor should i or the rest of the traffic behind this person.

i'm on about two lane motorways here btw.

It is frustrating, no argument there... but it's against the ROTR. You're only supposed to do it in the scenario mitosis described.

Pataman

Raised this subject with a garda friend recently. If you are in the driving lane and doing the speed limit or less, if you come up to a vehicle(although he pronounced like v-hickle), once you dont speed up you will not be stopped as you are continuing to make progress and you didnt pull into the lane to gain advantage

Atomic Pineapple

Wetbench4 wrote: »

Like the above poster said, its not undertaking if the traffic in the over take lane is driving slowly, or slower than the speed limit.

Actually, it is,

Wetbench4 wrote: »

You can fail your test for driving too much below the speed limit, they call it lack of progression or something strange like that.

No part of the driving test takes part on a motorway.

Wetbench4 wrote: »

PS: Why exactly is it more dangerous to pass a car on its left side more than the right side, travelling at same difference of speed. All cars have mirrors on both sides with equal amount of view on each, just curious of the technical reason. Aren't left hand drive cars allowed drive on a motorway too?

Have you drove on a 3/4 lane motorway or larger? If you have you should clearly be able to identify why undertaking is dangerous, especially with poor Irish drivers.

Pataman wrote: »

Raised this subject with a garda friend recently. If you are in the driving lane and doing the speed limit or less, if you come up to a vehicle(although he pronounced like v-hickle), once you dont speed up you will not be stopped as you are continuing to make progress and you didnt pull into the lane to gain advantage

Part of the traffic corp? Sounds more like his opinion than anything else.

Colonel Sanders

I've often driven the M7 & thought "god it's busy tonight"

Quite often it's not, it's just that the left hand lane is practically empty

Anan1

Pataman wrote: »

Raised this subject with a garda friend recently. If you are in the driving lane and doing the speed limit or less, if you come up to a vehicle(although he pronounced like v-hickle), once you dont speed up you will not be stopped as you are continuing to make progress and you didnt pull into the lane to gain advantage

That's nonsense.

corktina

Ground Hog Day...

Anan1

corktina wrote: »

Ground Hog Day...

True, but if even a couple of people read through it and learn something then it'll make all our lives that bit easier.

the culture of deference

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I've often driven the M7 & thought "god it's busy tonight"

Quite often it's not, it's just that the left hand lane is practically empty

The M7 is a disaster, here is an image from Netherlands, doesn't it look like the N7

the culture of deference

Middle lane hoggers just seem completely oblivious. What are they thinking when they get undertaken. Or why do they sit in the OT lane on a 2 lane Mway and wonder why people are flashing them. I have falshed a few cars out of my way, they moved lane and then moved back when I passed??

whomitconcerns

the culture of deference wrote: »

The M7 is a disaster, here is an image from Netherlands, doesn't it look like the N7

that looks correct though...most of the traffic is to the right where it should be. Leftmost lane is almost empty like it should be also

Pataman

Anan1 wrote: »

That's nonsense.

What a well thought out and articulate response.
I must tell him he doesnt know the law.

Atomic Pineapple

whomitconcerns wrote: »

that looks correct though...most of the traffic is to the right where it should be. Leftmost lane is almost empty like it should be also

I think that was the posters point!

Pataman wrote: »

What a well thought out and articulate response.
I must tell him he doesnt know the law.

But based on your post he actually doesn't know the law....?

You must not overtake when
You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian
signals.
A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
You are approaching a junction.
You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back
bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
You are in the left-hand lane of a dual

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf - page 46

Cienciano

blindsider wrote: »

It's called 'undertaking' for a reason - it's highly dangerous and illegal.

If spotted, you will be pulled immediately and no amount of arguing will get you off.

How is it highly dangerous?
I've done it in full view of an unmarked car and wasnt pulled for it (mind you, neither was the guy in the right hand lane)

suzie987

I cannot stand that M7.

It's ridiculous the amount of people who don't know basic rules of the road in this country! Why would anyone actually think it's ok to mosey on at 90-100kmph IN THE RIGHT LANE? Do they actually not see the empty left lane or what? :rolleyes:

Atomic Pineapple

suzie987 wrote: »

I cannot stand that M7.

It's ridiculous the amount of people who don't know basic rules of the road in this country! Why would anyone actually think it's ok to mosey on at 90-100kmph IN THE RIGHT LANE? Do they actually not see the empty left lane or what? :rolleyes:

There's no education regarding driving on motorways at all in Ireland, it's not surprising people can't drive on them when they aren't thought how to.

RootX

Cienciano wrote: »

How is it highly dangerous?

'Cause the driver in the overtaking lane doesn't expect a car in the driving lane travelling at a higher speed than him. He checks his mirror, sees you far back, changes lane and next you know you're breaking hard or, worst case scenario, you've rear ended him at high speed.

P.C.

whomitconcerns wrote: »

the culture of deference wrote: »

The M7 is a disaster, here is an image from Netherlands, doesn't it look like the N7

that looks correct though...most of the traffic is to the right where it should be. Leftmost lane is almost empty like it should be also

Looks exactly like the N7. No cars in the left lane, and the right lane is full.

Zubeneschamali

Pataman wrote: »

I must tell him he doesnt know the law.

Please do. If you read the actual law, you'll see that it specifically forbids overtaking on the left while staying in the left lane, contrary to your garda friends opinions:

(4) Subject to the provisions of sub-article (5), a driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.

(5) A driver may only overtake on the left-

( a ) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled an intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,

( b ) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to turn left at the next road junction and has signalled this intention,

( c ) in slow moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Henry Ford III

This is taken from the UK Highway Code. Now before anyone says it's not a legal doc. it isn't, but it's as good an interpretation of the underlying laws as I've seen. Ours are to all extent and purposes identical to the UK's.

Importantly it's puts a small bit more definition on "slow moving" traffic in the outer lanes.....

"Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."

That to me would suggest bumper to bumper traffic, stopping and starting.

RootX

^^
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

You may overtake on the left when

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.


You must not overtake when

You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian signals.
A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
You are approaching a junction.
You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed.

_Kaiser_

RootX wrote: »

^^
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

You may overtake on the left when

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.


You must not overtake when

You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian signals.
A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
You are approaching a junction.
You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed.

However, as is usual in this country, it's actually so vague it can (and is!) taken to mean anything!

What's the definition of "slow" for example. Personally I'd consider doing 80-90 on a 100/120km stretch when there's no reason for it to be "slow", but to someone else it could be "good progress" (limit not a target and all that nonsense!)

Hence then the very Irish approach to enforcement where it "depends who you get" on the day and THEIR opinion of the above :rolleyes:

Henry Ford III

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

However, as is usual in this country, it's actually so vague it can (and is!) taken to mean anything!

What's the definition of "slow" for example. Personally I'd consider doing 80-90 on a 100/120km stretch when there's no reason for it to be "slow", but to someone else it could be "good progress" (limit not a target and all that nonsense!)

Hence then the very Irish approach to enforcement where it "depends who you get" on the day and THEIR opinion of the above :rolleyes:

See post #34 above.

H3llR4iser

In the end, it is a slightly obscure matter that won't be solved on a forum; The very controversy stems from the very definition of "overtake" versus "passing".

To overtake means to move laterally, move ahead of the preceeding vehicle, and move laterally again back in the originating lane. Under these circumstances, it is indeed always forbidden to perform an overtake on the left on a dual carriageway.

When a car driving on the left lane drives up some idiot hugging the right fence because he/she likes to do so, the situation is not so clear anymore.

Technically speaking, the car on the left is not overtaking. The act of driving up to an obstacle or a slow moving vehicle and going past it without having to alter your own course is called "passing".

It would be very interesting to see if there have been any court cases about fines given in such a scenario, and what the ruling was.

the culture of deference

P.C. wrote: »

Looks exactly like the N7. No cars in the left lane, and the right lane is full.

That's what I meant by it, surprised some people didn't get that.
Can anyone photoshop the numberplates and reverse the image?

RootX wrote: »

'Cause the driver in the overtaking lane doesn't expect a car in the driving lane travelling at a higher speed than him. He checks his mirror, sees you far back, changes lane and next you know you're breaking hard or, worst case scenario, you've rear ended him at high speed.

The driver dawdling along is oblivious to other traffic anyway. FFS they don't even know they are in the wrong lane.

the culture of deference

Here the image is flipped

Chris_Heilong

RootX wrote: »

^^
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html


You must not overtake when

You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian signals.
A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
You are approaching a junction.
You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed.

WTF is normal speed? If traffic was moving normal speed then the car on the left would not be undertaking the cars on the right unless the cars on the right are not moving at 'Normal speed'.

Henry Ford III

H3llR4iser wrote: »

In the end, it is a slightly obscure matter that won't be solved on a forum; The very controversy stems from the very definition of "overtake" versus "passing".

To overtake means to move laterally, move ahead of the preceeding vehicle, and move laterally again back in the originating lane. Under these circumstances, it is indeed always forbidden to perform an overtake on the left on a dual carriageway.

When a car driving on the left lane drives up some idiot hugging the right fence because he/she likes to do so, the situation is not so clear anymore.

Technically speaking, the car on the left is not overtaking. The act of driving up to an obstacle or a slow moving vehicle and going past it without having to alter your own course is called "passing".

It would be very interesting to see if there have been any court cases about fines given in such a scenario, and what the ruling was.

I think it's pretty clear actually.

You cannot overtake nor pass on the left unless turning left, or the other party has indicated to turn right, or that you are in bumper to bumper lanes of congested traffic.

Lane discipline is pretty poor in Ireland in general, and horrendous on ther M50 in particular in my experience, but that's no excuse to overtake/or pass on the left.

Cienciano

I was on the m50 last night at about half 10, the left lane had the least traffic by a mile! As usual, the middle lane had most of the traffic.

RootX wrote: »

'Cause the driver in the overtaking lane doesn't expect a car in the driving lane travelling at a higher speed than him. He checks his mirror, sees you far back, changes lane and next you know you're breaking hard or, worst case scenario, you've rear ended him at high speed.

By "high speed" I assume you mean the speed limit? If the driver in the overtaking lane pulls in in front of someone that's so close it causes a crash, it can only mean they're not paying attention and haven't looked.

Just because you're driving in the overtaking lane pulling in to the left, doesn't exempt you from proper observation.

blackwhite

draffodx wrote: »

Legally your in the wrong there.

Actually, both drivers are.
Moron in the right hand lane is guilty of failing to keep left (as he isn't overtaking), and the poster in question is guilty of an illegal undertaking manoeuvre.

Atomic Pineapple

blackwhite wrote: »

Actually, both drivers are.
Moron in the right hand lane is guilty of failing to keep left (as he isn't overtaking), and the poster in question is guilty of an illegal undertaking manoeuvre.

Of course, in the event of an accident, both would likely bear 50% of the cause.

the culture of deference

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Lane discipline is pretty poor in Ireland in general, and horrendous on ther M50 in particular in my experience, but that's no excuse to overtake/or pass on the left.

Driving standards in Ireland are horrendous.
One fifth of drivers do not have a full license.
One fifth never did a test.
There is virtually no policing.
The road conditions are sh1t.

We should have the German system, 50 hour's of lessons.

blackwhite wrote: »

Actually, both drivers are.
Moron in the right hand lane is guilty of failing to keep left (as he isn't overtaking), and the poster in question is guilty of an illegal undertaking manoeuvre.

Has anyone used this with the cops here.

Garda: you were undertaking

Driver: no offense committed gard, unless you do the other car for being in the wrong lane.

That would mean that if Jim McDaid was drunkenly driving the wrong way down the Naas dualler in the middle lane, technically you could be done for undertaking him if you were going the correct direction.

blackwhite

the culture of deference wrote: »

Has anyone used this with the cops here.

Garda: you were undertaking

Driver: no offense committed gard, unless you do the other car for being in the wrong lane.

Whataboutery is not a defence accepted in the Irish legal system. If you commit an offence, the fact that somebody else committed a different offence doesn't make what you did go away.

the culture of deference wrote: »

That would mean that if Jim McDaid was drunkenly driving the wrong way down the Naas dualler in the middle lane, technically you could be done for undertaking him if you were going the correct direction.

Explain the logic behind that one?? If you remain in the left hand lane then you have met oncoming traffic. That's not undertaking, that merely keeping left when meeting oncoming traffic - you know, the most basic rule of the road

Wetbench4

draffodx wrote: »

No part of the driving test takes part on a motorway.



Have you drove on a 3/4 lane motorway or larger? If you have you should clearly be able to identify why undertaking is dangerous, especially with poor Irish drivers.

Draffodx, since you seem to be "an expert" on motorways can you explain a little better(as in specifically), why its more dangerous to pass on one side over the other, because when a lane hogger is behind the wheel, imo its equally as dangerous coming up on either side. They are not good drivers.
And yes i have driven on 3lane motorway, have you?

Also regarding the driving test, i never said anything about a test on a motorway, i meant in general.

Regarding congestion, won't a right lane hogger travelling at 90/100 kph in a 120 zone cause congestion if no-one is allowed to pass on the left. Or in other words, if i wanted to hold up traffic, i can just drive along in the right lane and anyone who passes me is in the wrong. I don't care if its the law, its retarded and like a said earlier,imo it just as dangerous to pass an idiot on the right as the left.

limklad

shedweller wrote: »

I may be mistaken but don't the rules of the road state that you can overtake on the left if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly (or words to that effect)

On Multi-lane roads, There is the Driving lane, which is always on the Left and overtaking lanes on the Right. Vehicles in the overtaking lanes are overtaking.

The First rule of the Road I learn which is Law, That "you drive on the Left" and it is Law. Second as part of the same paragraph is causing inconvenience to others, such as eradicate driving and failing to progress (inconvenience to traffic). That is covered in Section 17 (1) in the 1964 Road Traffic General By Laws. That bit is covered both ways such as tailgating, persistence flashing lights, etc.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a17
S.I. No. 294/1964 — Road Traffic General Bye-Laws, 1964.

Obligation to drive on the left and to use traffic lanes
17.—(1) A driver shall drive as near to the left hand side of the roadway as is necessary in order to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or a pedestrian, approaching traffic to pass him on his right and overtaking traffic to overtake him on his right.

Slow Drivers overtaking nobody while driving on the overtaking lanes are breaking the Law for failing to drive on the left and for inconvenience to traffic behind them.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a17
Overtaking

19.—(1) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.


(2) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) unless he can clearly see a portion of the roadway which—


(a) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and


(b) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.


(3) A driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.


(4) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of this bye-law, a driver may overtake on the left—


(a) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled his intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,


(b) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to turn left at a road junction and has signalled this intention,


(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Section 19 (1) covers both the overtaking vehicle coming from behind on the driving lane, as well as the driver of the vehicle in the overtaking lane overtaking nobody.

The last bit 19 (4)(c) is vague and is widely open to interpretation by the Gardai, DPP & Judiciary. It does favour the driver in the driving lane (as by Law) overtaking the improper driver of the vehicle driving in the overtaking lane breaking Irish Road Traffic general bye law 1964 for failing to drive on the left if the Judge is aware of 19 (1) and the is also aware that the driver accused of overtaking on the left did not adjust his/her speed or changed lanes or did anything different when approaching the large slow moving traffic who where in the overtaking lane overtaking no vehicles in the driving lane therefore did not perform any manoeuvre, just drive as he did before he pass out slow drivers who where breaking law in the first place in three different offences.

This part of the law 19 (4) was meant to mean multi-lane urban traffic as there were far too little multi-lane roads in the Rural areas when this law was put into effect in 1964. On Motorway or 100kph multi-lane road a driver can legal driving slowly @60kph in compare to traffic approaching him from behind who are travelling at 120kph or 100kph. @60Khp may hold up traffic behind him therefore creating Slow-moving Traffic. Slow-moving Traffic is open to interpretation by Gardai, DPP & the Judiciary.

I have no problem with slow moving traffic on normal roads, but driving at speed much less for Motorways is dangerous especially when that driver is driving on the overtaking lane overtaking nobody and the driving lane is free to drive on. 60kph is fast and dangerous in urban speed limits but slow in Motorway/rural 100kph roads.
This is depended on the view or mood of the judge on the Day in Court. A person mood or view varies interpretation of events or vague written word.

Third offence for slow drivers on overtaking lanes is Failing to pull over to let go traffic they they accrued behind them for driving without due care and attention.
This have been sited many times by Gardai on drivers of Farm Vehicles and other vehicles when they build up traffic behind them on single lane roads. There is no reason why gardai cannot use this on Motorways and Multi-lane roads where there is no obvious right hand turn ahead.

So that three offences that Slow drivers on Overtaking lanes are breaking compare to possible just 1 of the Vehicle overtaking on the driving lane overtaking vehicle/s who are driving on the overtaking lane.


A Statement by the Road Safely authority about slow driving.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15868:slow-down-speed-up-or-pull-over&catid=103:between-the-lines&Itemid=100187 Noel Gibbons Road Safely Authority

“The Rules of the Road states that you must keep up with the pace of traffic flow, while obeying the speed limit. It also says that while you must keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front, you should not drive so slowly that your vehicle unnecessarily blocks other road users. If you drive too slowly, you risk frustrating other drivers, which could lead to dangerous overtaking,” a spokesperson said.

I have no problem drivers driving slow on problematic roads, but driving slow or varying their speed for no good reason on main good wide main road and holding up traffic is a Major problem and will cause crashes, as proven by David Solomon in the US in research in the 1950 and 60's that most accident happen when drivers of vehicle do not travel at median speeds to others traffic will have a high chance of involvement of an accident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Slow drivers of Vehicles who caused huge tails back not only cause problems for other normal motorist, they cause major problems for City/Town tailback and traffic congestion to the urban areas they enter and cause major problems for emergency vehicles by having huge tail backs and creating a dangerous environment and driving conditions for drivers of emergency vehicles causing unnecessary delays in reaching a crash site, house or building fire, or hinder life saving personnel from reaching their patience who need emergency help to reach a hospital.

I do not normally agree with Judge Mary Devin interpretation, but I do agree with her view with slow drivers who never check their rear view mirror and who never let traffic they built up pass by pulling over.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0803/1224321371171.html
There is no question about her, She has humour. Reminds me of my late elderly neighbour.

Irish Times wrote:

November 2011
A motorist caught using a mobile phone for a fourth time while driving was fined €500 and banned from driving for two years at Castlebar District Court. When told it was the accused’s fourth offence, Judge Devins said “The phone must be glued to his ear.”

dr.fuzzenstein

draffodx wrote: »

There's no education regarding driving on motorways at all in Ireland, it's not surprising people can't drive on them when they aren't thought how to.

It's the Irish way to solve an Irish problem.
The theory is that if you don't talk about it, never even mention it, then no one will know about it, so there's no problem.

dr.fuzzenstein

RootX wrote: »

'Cause the driver in the overtaking lane doesn't expect a car in the driving lane travelling at a higher speed than him. He checks his mirror, sees you far back, changes lane and next you know you're breaking hard or, worst case scenario, you've rear ended him at high speed.

I would call that incompetence in the extreme. "That car on my left couldn't possibly be passing me, since it is illegal under the ROTR, I will therefore execute a wild swerving maneuver to the left, because I know the road is clear"
Shouldn't be on the road that guy.