Converting a Rio 180 to marine... do-able on a budget?

vibe666

my sumpless nano marine tank is 55L with THIS big fat external pump/filter from seahorse for 100 quid and it more than does the job.

I got a cheap (but not THAT cheap) skimmer off ebay just to be on the safe side, but it only lasted a few weeks before it broke down entirely and i'm not convinced it was doing any good when it was working.

it's been running since just before xmas (still with the original filter media which i recently checked and is still good) when I set the tank up with 2 bags of live sand and a few kg of live rock.

stock wise i have a couple of shrimp, a starfish, 2 clowns, 2 hermits, 2 turbo snails, 2 narcissus snails and various other bits and bobs that i assume came with the sand and aside from losing my two seahorses to microbubbles from the filter within a couple of weeks of getting them, it's been running fine with regular RO water topups and the odd water change every month or so.

also, it's well worth investing in our own RO system if you can scrounge together the cash.

I picked mine up off ebay for €120, a 7 stage under sink system with a re-mineralisation post-filter that gives me the nicest, cleanest drinking water i've ever tasted (much better than any bottled water).

i'm actually thinking of upgrading it to use for the water supply for the whole house so our showers and washing machine etc. get the full benefit of the stuff. it's hard to believe it is coming from our dirty old Dublin 15 tap water.

Sleepy

Unfortunately I'm in a rented property so installing an RO system isn't really an option for me. Artane Aquatics is only around the corner though so a couple of Jerry cans a week shouldn't break the bank or be too much hassle.

vibe666

Sleepy wrote: »

Unfortunately I'm in a rented property so installing an RO system isn't really an option for me. Artane Aquatics is only around the corner though so a couple of Jerry cans a week shouldn't break the bank or be too much hassle.

me too, you can easily remove it if you move out and it fits under the sink, so I just took out the shelf and it's sitting in there quite happily. you don't even need a plumber to fit it, you can do it all yourself in less than an hour.

our sink is one of those plain steel ones with a 'tap hole' on each side depending on which way the person putting it in mounts it and there is a planking plate over the other hole, so I just put the goose neck tap in there on the unused side so we can use that and took another feed off the pipe to the fridge for nice cold water and crystal clear ice.

but if artane aquatics is just round the corner, it's probably as easy for you to just do it that way.

marty2002

Hi all, ive been reading this thread with much interest as i am setting up a marine tank myself in the near future, just a quick question, is there a rule of thumb about how much Live rock that is put in a tank? I read somewhere about a kilo per Gallon.

Sleepy

Depends on whether you've a protein skimmer or not... with no protein skimmer I think you'd be looking at a kilo for every 3/4 litres, with one it'd be about a kilo per 10 litres or so...

I gave up on the idea in the end, refilled the tank with gravel and cycled it up to let the kids have a live-bearer tank.

él statutorio

Sleepy wrote: »

Depends on whether you've a protein skimmer or not... with no protein skimmer I think you'd be looking at a kilo for every 3/4 litres, with one it'd be about a kilo per 10 litres or so...

I gave up on the idea in the end, refilled the tank with gravel and cycled it up to let the kids have a live-bearer tank.

Aww really?

that's a shame.

Sleepy

With a wedding to pay for in February, I just couldn't afford to do it over the next few months.

A reef tank is still the dream, I'll have one some-day but afraid that if I went for it now, I'd have to cut too many corners for budgetary reasons and would end up killing the livestock.

él statutorio

Understandable alright. It's an expensive thing to get set up especially if you've a wedding on the horizon. Touch base with me in February, I might be moving house at around that time and if I am I'll be selling up my stuff. You can have first refusal.

Sleepy

Will do!

buzz

él statutorio wrote: »

Just live rock, nothing else.

I did a lot of research on this a few week back.
I had a spare 98L fluval tank which I converted to marine on a budget.
I also used a tetratec ex 600 and had read about using crushed coral / live rock which is a very popular method but unfortunately on the 6 forums (worldwide and mostly marine only) I was advised that this is not the best way of doing it at all if you have enough live rock in your tank (after I had bought the crushed coral and broken up a perfectly large piece of live rock:rolleyes:)

Fine thin sponge at the top (silt filter), then a layer of carbon and finally rowaphos (Phosphate remover)

I bought 70L of live water from a marine only store in Dunlaoghaire right out of one of their tanks for €30.

Bought 40KG of coral sand for €50 and got 40KG of live coral rock on adverts for €50! even though I only needed half of that or less..

I am not running a protein skimmer, as such a small tank and intended low stock level that I wont need it.

Power head / wavemaker I bought for €15 on adverts http://www.adverts.ie/pet-accessories/wavemaker-5000-circulator-5000-l-h-12w-with-sucker/1208546
Ran it for about 3 weeks and tested the levels and everything was perfect last night so going to add "the clean up crew" this weekend!

Also bought a juwel marine bulb for about 12euro, done.

Now its only my first stab at a marine, I have 3 cichlid tanks but novice on marine so this is the tester to see if it works. Ill pop up some pics.

I havent lost any water to evaporation, well if so its not noticable but I am concerned about salinity and before I add the crabs and nails etc, I will have the water tested to be 100%

Lenny

HI lads, I know this is about marine tanks.. but I see talk about the power head.. I am planning on settings up a tropical want 180L
I read about "waterpumps" been nedeed for water circulation, would the power heads be a good option?

Silverfish

Lenny wrote: »

HI lads, I know this is about marine tanks.. but I see talk about the power head.. I am planning on settings up a tropical want 180L
I read about "waterpumps" been nedeed for water circulation, would the power heads be a good option?

A decent filter will circulate the water enough for a tropical tank, especially an external with a spraybar.

Lenny

I bought a fluval 306 canister. think its 1150L per hour, so would that be sufficient enough?

Silverfish

Lenny wrote: »

I bought a fluval 306 canister. think its 1150L per hour, so would that be sufficient enough?

I'd say so, that's 6 times the tank volume in turnover, so that should be a decent flow. Turnover usually depends on the fish you're keeping, larger fish need larger turnover, and some fish prefer slower stiller water, and others prefer a river-like environment.

Lenny

I could always use the internal Filter Bioflow 3.0(got this with the tank)
the tank was 2nd hand the I cleaned that filter out it seems to be working.
But looking at the juwel website I don't remember seeing the Pump Juwel ECCOFLOW 600 l/h Int.,
the lad I bought it off only had goldfish in it, maybe it could be in the bucket with all the other stuff to go with it.
Would I need one of them or is that the same as the waterpump? as in I should get away without needing one?

also were would I get a thermostatically controlled heater, and would they expensive? could you link to one online?
the heater that I have is the standard one.. its 200W but it just has a plain dial on it high to low,

Silverfish

Lenny wrote: »

I could always use the internal Filter Bioflow 3.0(got this with the tank)
the tank was 2nd hand the I cleaned that filter out it seems to be working.
But looking at the juwel website I don't remember seeing the Pump Juwel ECCOFLOW 600 l/h Int.,
the lad I bought it off only had goldfish in it, maybe it could be in the bucket with all the other stuff to go with it.
Would I need one of them or is that the same as the waterpump? as in I should get away without needing one?

The filter is the whole box unit, with the sponges and the plastic trays and stuff, the pump is the bit that plugs in and pulls the water in.

Looks like this:

.

However if you don't have that, it's no big deal, as the external filter will be more than enough I'd say. Lots of people remove the internal filter completely to give more space in the tank.

Lenny

yea I cleaned it 2 weeks ago and its in the parents, that picture you put up looks like what was at the top of the filter, as I had the bottom part of the filter in a bucket of water it was sucking it in & pumping it out of that right angle nipple there
yea the fluval 306 is for 300L tanks so its a bit over alright.

also were would I get a thermostatically controlled heater, and would they expensive? could you link to one online?
the heater that I have is the standard one.. its 200W but it just has a plain dial on it high to low. I think a self controlling one would be suited better

I have my water testing kit, I've added water de-chrlone.
should I bother with the api ph up&down

Silverfish

I use a couple of different ones, the JBL Pro-temp lets you set the temp on it, also it cuts out when taken out of the water so that's good. You'd need maybe a 200 - 250w for a 180L.

http://www.seahorseaquariums.com/store/product/1644/JBL-ProTemp-S-25W/

The Juwel heaters are pretty good too, I use one in the 350L goldfish tank, keeps them pretty stable.
Juwel Heater

Your next purchase is going to be an API Freshwater Master testing kit, that'll be one of the most important things you'll buy apart from the tank and the fish. Also a KH / GH testing kit is handy too, but not crucial.

Wouldn't bother with pH up and down, test your water out of the tap, and again after being left to stand for 24 hours. That's your true pH, and it's best to get the fish to match your ph, rather than mucking about with the ph to suit the fish.

Lenny

Silverfish wrote: »

I use a couple of different ones, the JBL Pro-temp lets you set the temp on it, also it cuts out when taken out of the water so that's good. You'd need maybe a 200 - 250w for a 180L.

http://www.seahorseaquariums.com/store/product/1644/JBL-ProTemp-S-25W/

The Juwel heaters are pretty good too, I use one in the 350L goldfish tank, keeps them pretty stable.
Juwel Heater

Your next purchase is going to be an API Freshwater Master testing kit, that'll be one of the most important things you'll buy apart from the tank and the fish. Also a KH / GH testing kit is handy too, but not crucial.

Wouldn't bother with pH up and down, test your water out of the tap, and again after being left to stand for 24 hours. That's your true pH, and it's best to get the fish to match your ph, rather than mucking about with the ph to suit the fish.

Yea the 200W juwal heater does work, but I am not sure how long would be left in it..

I have bought this
I have just bought the kh / gh testing kit off ebay just there, cost less than a tenner from hong kong. Not in a rush for it anyway.
Good advice on the testing the ph out of the tap, as thats what the water will be, and easiest kept that way.
I had read that when doing a water cycle (25%) change of the water, the water thats being put in should be heated already?
Would that be true/good advice?
Currently reading a good tut online for setting up..

I can't really see the picture on that JBL Pro-temp, it says its only a 35W that wouldn't be enough for me would it, or does it hook up with the other heater and control that?

Silverfish

I'm not too sure on cycling, it's been so long since I did it, all I know is it took about 5 weeks for the tank to cycle! There's a sticky at the top of the forum on how to do it properly though. Unless you can persuade someone with a cycled tank to give you some sponge, that will make the whole thing quicker.

Sorry, on the link for the JBL Protemp, there's a dropdown box to select the different wattages, the 200w is 32.99. Not very clear on the site!

Lenny

Silverfish wrote: »

I'm not too sure on cycling, it's been so long since I did it, all I know is it took about 5 weeks for the tank to cycle! There's a sticky at the top of the forum on how to do it properly though. Unless you can persuade someone with a cycled tank to give you some sponge, that will make the whole thing quicker.

Sorry, on the link for the JBL Protemp, there's a dropdown box to select the different wattages, the 200w is 32.99. Not very clear on the site!

I had a read of the sticky eariler, didn't see anyone going on about heating the water prior to putting it in.

I see the drop down down on the site there, I think its a typo. the one you linked to says its a 25w, but should be 250wbecause they have 100, 150, 200, then 25, 300.
seahore is a couple of hundred metres up the road.. might pop up during the week and get that heater.
A friends son there has a tank running but its a marine tank so no sponge squeeze out of them
thanks for your help so far, much appreciated

MR PIGGY

Can someone please help. I am looking for a external pump for a juwel trigon 190. I bought a JBL e901 from zooplus but it arrived faulty. They will not have one back in stock for a couple of weeks so i am in a bit of a hurry for one like this or similar. Can anyone tell me where the best place to go is at a reasonable price.
Cheers

vibe666

Lenny wrote: »

I had a read of the sticky eariler, didn't see anyone going on about heating the water prior to putting it in.

i always put some freshly boiled water in to bring the temp up of the water a bit to approx. the mid 20's so that i don't end up bringing the established temp down by putting stone cold water in.

i'm not doing it on any particular advice from anyone, it just seemed like the right thing to do to minimise fish stress, given the whole thing about equalising the temp of the bag water when you add new fish to an established tank.

i always make sure i add some of the stuff to make tap water safe and remove chlorine too, even if i'm using RO water, just to be on the safe side even though it's probably not strictly necessary.

Lenny

Hello so I will be setting up my thanks quite shortly.
I have been reading on another forum and I came accross this info for the set up

Setting up the tank

1. Choose the position for your tank, remove anything from this area and ensure the area is clean. I recommend you move furniture to ensure you have clear space around the tank to set it up.
2. If the tank is of a reasonable size and going upstairs or above a cellar then it’s advisable to put a sheet of ply or something similar on the floor under where the tank goes, this will spread the weight of the tank over as many joists as possible.
3. Put the stand in place and check with a spirit level if it is level. This doesn’t need to be millimetre accurate but if it’s significantly off then you should level it as much as possible.
4. This step can be skipped if you have a floating base tank. Put a layer of thin polystyrene on top of the stand, this levels out any lumps and bumps and can stop the tank from cracking. This is as important to a fish keeper as a towel is to an interstellar hitchhiker.
5. Put the tank on the stand, ensure it is sat squarely and there is no overhang. Again this is very important.
6. Hook up the equipment onto the tank, do not turn it on!
7. Wash your substrate thoroughly and put it in the bottom of the tank
8. Add dechlorinator to the tank and fill the tank with water to roughly three quarters full (I only say don’t fill it entirely because you’ll need to muck around in the tank a bit, if it’s full you’ll just make a mess of the floor, this is especially important if you do not have a forgiving wife/husband), switch the heater and the filter on. Depending on the make/model of the filter you may need to prime it to get it to start, there should be instructions with the filter.
9. When the heater and filter are working you can start to put your décor in, it’ll take a while for the tank to get up to temperature so feel free to muck around and take your time.
10. When you’ve done arranging the tank fill it completely up, you’ll notice that there are bubbles forming on the glass and the water may not be totally clear, don’t worry about this it should settle down within 24hrs or so. Put the thermometer into the tank.
11. I’d recommend running the tank for a day before starting your fishless cycle, if there are any problems with the equipment they’re likely to manifest fairly quickly, this gives you a chance to sort things out without worrying over your bacteria colony. Also you may need to tinker with the temperature a bit to get it right, remember trust the thermometer as your temperature reading and just adjust the temp up and down as needed.

So there you go, one correctly set up and running tank, once you’ve gone through the fishless cycle you’ll be ready for fish and should have a fairly smooth ride of it for having done your prep work first.

What I am stuck on is, should I use an accelerator(I am in no rush to add fish)
then add White Clouds or Zebra Danios(prob these) to start the cycle. I was thinking about 8 maybe?

I was browsing videos on youtube,
came accross this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAkmdQSzSqM&playnext=1&list=PL19BAB9D2A1604A99&feature=results_main
he has guppies, clown loaches, tetras, sharks, gournamis, algee eaters, in it. so I was under the impression that these fish will go good together, I cant find that online program that you add the fish to test compatibility

Sleepy

None of those fish are marine and it's pretty cruel to use live fish to cycle the tank...

Lenny

Sleepy wrote: »

None of those fish are marine and it's pretty cruel to use live fish to cycle the tank...

Sorry sleepy I am just hijacking the thread.. earlier in my posts I had said I wasn't doing a marine.. its a tropical one I am doing!
ok if its cruel to the fish I won't add them. I had read about using the fish food for the cycle but was using google and couldnt find the process.
Is there any pictular fish food that should be used? I have cichlid fish food?

Sleepy

Top of the forum has a thread on it, any fish food will work.

If you can get someone near to give you some sponge or even get them to rinse one of their sponges out in your tank it'd speed things up considerably!

Lenny

Sleepy wrote: »

Top of the forum has a thread on it, any fish food will work.

If you can get someone near to give you some sponge or even get them to rinse one of their sponges out in your tank it'd speed things up considerably!

I'm in no rush to be honest on letting it cycle.. only getting keys hopefully today so I'll have loads of other things to do
cheers

buzz

Lenny drop me a txt when your ready and Ill give you some of my filter sqeezes. Also I have a few fish you can have.. Will help your cycle and you can keep'em!

Lenny

buzz wrote: »

Lenny drop me a txt when your ready and Ill give you some of my filter sqeezes. Also I have a few fish you can have.. Will help your cycle and you can keep'em!

hey buzz. cheers for the offer
I haven't moved home yet, , don't want to fill it in case I want to move the tank to another location, I am wondering could I still set it up myself with only half the ammount of water and start the cycle like.

I'll take you up on that squeeze of a lifetime offer I am just really busy getting things sorted for the home yet. haven't had a chance after work with stuff. and thanks very much for the offerings of you little ones