electrical certs

larrya

HI,
Just a quick one for someone out there with more knowledge than me.I am a qualified electrician,but not registered with RECI or ECSSA.A friend has asked me to wire their house and I am just wondering how would i go about getting a cert for this house.Is it possible for me to wire it and get someone who is registered to test it and certify it or is this allowed.Any info appreciated.

meercat

larrya wrote: »

HI,
Just a quick one for someone out there with more knowledge than me.I am a qualified electrician,but not registered with RECI or ECSSA.A friend has asked me to wire their house and I am just wondering how would i go about getting a cert for this house.Is it possible for me to wire it and get someone who is registered to test it and certify it or is this allowed.Any info appreciated.

you can wire it and test it and reci/eccsa will cert it if it is completed ok(for a fee)

http://reci.ie/ConsumerServices/InspectionServices/tabid/119/Default.aspx

M cebee

no you have to get reci ecssa
make sure you're familiar with all the current rules to avoid hassle with remedial work

meercat

M cebee wrote: »

no you have to get reci ecssa
make sure you're familiar with all the current rules to avoid hassle with remedial work

agree
ask someone familiar with the new regulations before you get too far into the process
there is a thread here somewhere with updated regs

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056389650

leeomurchu

The fee is €280 with ecssa they're cheaper. There's a bit of forgiveness on the regs regarding revisions to the current regs, for example if you don't wire a double pole switch to isolate skts under the kitchen units (I didn't do this but they assessed based on edition 4 or something along those lines can't remember for sure.)

It's an easy enough process and no bother if you're used to wiring houses don't forget the bonding is one thing I'll say they are very thorough rads in bathrooms,sinks etc etc.

you'll have to get a robin meter though as you'll have to test it and they check your results against theres.

larrya

Thanks first of all.I was told either body cannot issue a cert to anyone who is not registered unless you have public liability insurance.The only way is to do a change of contractor form.Does this sound right.

meercat

larrya wrote: »

Thanks first of all.I was told either body cannot issue a cert to anyone who is not registered unless you have public liability insurance.The only way is to do a change of contractor form.Does this sound right.

a change of contractor form is only if 1 electrician starts and another one finishes an installation

not 100% sure on your public liability query though(registered contractors are required to have it )
there is nothing about insurance on their inspection request form


Form R41
INSPECTION REQUEST FORM


For Office Use Only)
Electrical Contractor/Electrician______________________________________ Reg/Ref.No_________
(Block Letters)
Address_________________________________________________________ Order No.__________

________________________________________________________________ Date Received:

Phone________________ Remittance Rec'd €

Electrical Contractor  or Electrician  (Tick as appropriate) Passed to Inspector:
======================================================================================

INSPECTION DETAILS
(Block Letters)
Name of Consumer___________________________________ MPRN) Meter Point Reference Number : ______________________

Inspection Address________________________________________________________ Phone ___________

Installation Category: Domestic Commercial Industrial Other (Specify)______________

Type of Premises: (House, Flat, Shop, Office, Factory etc) No. of Bedrooms or Sq.Ft ____________________

Type of Installation
New Rewire Addition Re-Connection NSH Temp Supply Other ________

Electricity Supply: 1 Ph or 3 PH Metering: Wholecurrent or C T Earthing: TN-C-S or TT

Number of Inspections required______(one inspection per meter/consumer/letting at same address)

Installation Completed (date)____________ Inspection Required (date)____________

Remittance Enclosed: €______________ (Bank Draft/Postal Order/Money Order/Credit Card ONLY )
======================================================================================

Please confirm that the following tests have been completed (Tick and quote test value where appropriate)

Test Completed () Test Value
Continuity of Protective & Bonding Conductors
Continuity of Ring Circuit Conductors (if applicable)
Resistance of Longest Protective Conductor Ohms
Minimum Insulation Resistance (for total installation) M Ohms
Polarity
The following apply if power is connected:
Maximum Fault Loop Impedence Ohms
Verification of Operation of RCD

=======================================================================================

I confirm that the above electrical installation has been constructed and completed by me in accordance with ETCI National Wiring Rules and TEST RECORD SHEETS ARE HELD AND AVAILABLE FOR INSPECTION

Signed________________________________________ Date___________________
Electrical Contractor/Electrician

THIS FORM MUST BE COMPLETED AND SIGNED BY THE ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR/ELECTRICIAN
WHO MUST ALSO BE IN ATTENDANCE AT TIME OF INSPECTION. THIS INSPECTION REQUEST
FORM SHOULD BE FORWARDED TO RECI AT LEAST 10 DAYS BEFORE INSPECTION IS REQUIRED

UNIT 9, KCR INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, RAVENSDALE PARK, KIMMAGE, DUBLIN 12
Phone: 4929966 Fax: 4929983

leeomurchu

larrya wrote: »

Thanks first of all.I was told either body cannot issue a cert to anyone who is not registered unless you have public liability insurance.The only way is to do a change of contractor form.Does this sound right.

No I've done what you're looking to do exact same conditions friends house I'm a spark no public lia etc it's very straight forward.

larrya

Was that with RECI or ECSSA leeomurchu and was it lately just wondering if its a new rule.

leeomurchu

larrya wrote: »

Was that with RECI or ECSSA leeomurchu and was it lately just wondering if its a new rule.

It was through ecssa a few years ago now but I've another lined up towards the end of the year so I'd be interested to hear the if it is being brought in.

I'd find it hard to believe that it's a requirement though how many companies have signed off on houses during the boom times that are no longer operating.

I filled in a form similar to the one meercat posted there. do you have access to a robin meter or simialr because you will need a copy of all of your test results.

larrya

leeomurchu wrote: »

It was a few years ago now but I've another lined up towards the end of the year so I'd be interested to hear the if it is being brought in.

I'd find it hard to believe that it's a requirement though how many companies have signed off on houses during the boom times that are no longer operating.

Yes i hadn't thought of that.I'll contact both in the next few days and post their response.

larrya

Well contacted both RECI will not test or cert unless you have public liability insurance.They said it was virtually impossible for unregistered electrician to get a cert.ECSSA said they would have no problem testing and certifying once you pay 300 euro.So ECSSA it is.

2011

larrya wrote: »

They said it was virtually impossible for unregistered electrician to get a cert.

Really?
You have just demonstrated that this is completely untrue.

leeomurchu

I remember RECI being a pain in the arse to deal with last time I had a house cert done.

They're solely interested in your signing up and paying their fees.

Ecssa are grand to deal with you've to pay for re visit so be sure you've got as much as possible complete before you call them in. Also second check all your readings if they're slightly off they'll have you check it yourself and arrange to call again.

Some of them are actually alright though I had one inspector out who was sound and another who was a bit surly

M cebee

i hope that's not true about PL
i suppose there's an issue alright with claims later?

can anybody else confirm the situation with reci-is it mentioned on the website?

leeomurchu

Nothing mentioned on their inspection services page.

"Inspection of Installations Constructed by Non-Registered Contractors

RECI will undertake an inspection of an installation constructed by a non registered electrical contractor. The RECI inspector will carry out a visual inspection and sample testing for compliance with the Wiring Rules and provide a non registered completion certificate for the contractor to sign. The RECI inspector countersigns the completion certificate and it will be accepted by the ESB for connection of supply.

A completed inspection request form and payment should be sent to the RECI office. The contractor should have test record sheets available when the inspector visits the installation."

They may have covered themselves with the electrical contractor bit seeing as how an electrical contractor should have PL.

leeomurchu

Not on the application form either and it has a box to tick Electrician??


Form R41
INSPECTION REQUEST FORM


For Office Use Only)
Electrical Contractor/Electrician______________________________________ Reg/Ref.No_________
(Block Letters)
Address_________________________________________________________ Order No.__________

________________________________________________________________ Date Received:

Phone________________ Remittance Rec'd €

Electrical Contractor  or Electrician  (Tick as appropriate) Passed to Inspector:
======================================================================================

INSPECTION DETAILS
(Block Letters)
Name of Consumer___________________________________ MPRN) Meter Point Reference Number : ______________________

Inspection Address________________________________________________________ Phone ___________

Installation Category: Domestic Commercial Industrial Other (Specify)______________

Type of Premises: (House, Flat, Shop, Office, Factory etc) No. of Bedrooms or Sq.Ft ____________________

Type of Installation
New Rewire Addition Re-Connection NSH Temp Supply Other ________

Electricity Supply: 1 Ph or 3 PH Metering: Wholecurrent or C T Earthing: TN-C-S or TT

Number of Inspections required______(one inspection per meter/consumer/letting at same address)

Installation Completed (date)____________ Inspection Required (date)____________

Remittance Enclosed: €______________ (Bank Draft/Postal Order/Money Order/Credit Card ONLY )
======================================================================================

Please confirm that the following tests have been completed (Tick and quote test value where appropriate)

Test Completed () Test Value
Continuity of Protective & Bonding Conductors
Continuity of Ring Circuit Conductors (if applicable)
Resistance of Longest Protective Conductor Ohms
Minimum Insulation Resistance (for total installation) M Ohms
Polarity
The following apply if power is connected:
Maximum Fault Loop Impedence Ohms
Verification of Operation of RCD

=======================================================================================

I confirm that the above electrical installation has been constructed and completed by me in accordance with ETCI National Wiring Rules and TEST RECORD SHEETS ARE HELD AND AVAILABLE FOR INSPECTION

Signed________________________________________ Date___________________
Electrical Contractor/Electrician

THIS FORM MUST BE COMPLETED AND SIGNED BY THE ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR/ELECTRICIAN
WHO MUST ALSO BE IN ATTENDANCE AT TIME OF INSPECTION. THIS INSPECTION REQUEST
FORM SHOULD BE FORWARDED TO RECI AT LEAST 10 DAYS BEFORE INSPECTION IS REQUIRED

UNIT 9, KCR INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, RAVENSDALE PARK, KIMMAGE, DUBLIN 12
Phone: 4929966 Fax: 4929983

leeomurchu

Ah ha I found it looks as though it's definitely Ecssa from now on

REGISTER OF ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS OF IRELAND
UNIT 9, KCR INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, RAVENSDALE PARK, KIMMAGE, DUBLIN 12
PHONE (01) 492 9966 FAX (01) 492 9983
INSPECTIONS FOR NON-REGISTERED CONTRACTORS
The provision for non-registered inspections (third party inspections) is designed to
facilitate the Certification of Controlled Works carried out by non-registered contractors
who are electrically qualified and competent persons conversant with the Technical Rules
applicable to the installation and have completed a recognised Testing, Verification and
Certification course within the previous 3 years. Proof of qualifications such as a
National Craft Cert or Certificate of Completion of Apprenticeship must be provided.
The applicant must also provide proof of insurance to indemnify the RECI who are
providing the third party inspection.
A third party inspection cannot be carried out if these criteria are not provided.
In such cases where the criteria for the third party inspection cannot be met the
change of contractor procedure should then be followed. This procedure is available
on our website www.reci.ie or by post if requested from the RECI office 01 4929966.
*Prices Effective from the 1
ST
AUGUST 2012*
TYPE PRICE VAT TOTAL
Domestic Installations ≤ 49Kva €320.00 €73.60 €393.60
Small Commercial Installations ≤ 49Kva €320.00 €73.60 €393.60
Industrial/Large Commercial Installations ≤ 49Kva €450.00 €103.50 €553.50
Temporary Supply €173.55 €39.92 €213.47
Moving Meter/New Meter €173.55 €39.92 €213.47
New MCB Board/Consumer Board/Fuse board €320.00 €73.60 €393.60
N.S. Heating €173.55 €39.92 €213.47
When filling up the enclosed Inspection Request Form, it is very important that the
section on test values is completed. Failure to do so will result in the Inspection Form
being returned to you causing a delay in processing your inspection.
Please also note that your Inspection Request Form must be
accompanied by Bank Draft, Money Order, Postal Order or Credit
Card (NO CHEQUES)

M cebee

thats it alright
but no problem with ecssa then?
strange-but there is an issue with product liability which PL
covers

-for example.testing doesnt deal with quality of products used in the job and some aspects of workmanship not readily visible

M cebee

must have came in fairly recently
i know lads who got reci out a couple of years back with no PL

larrya

2011 wrote: »

Really?
You have just demonstrated that this is completely untrue.

Through RECI obviously

2011

larrya wrote: »

Through RECI obviously

Yes, I was just surprised that RECI told you that "it was virtually impossible for unregistered electrician to get a cert"

M cebee

What's the story with alterations to installations and ecssa
If you did a DB upgrade,meter move and added circuits is it possible to get a cert for the new work or would the whole installation have to comply?
Theres a section in the back of rules but it doesn't explain it really

leeomurchu

M cebee wrote: »

What's the story with alterations to installations and ecssa
If you did a DB upgrade,meter move and added circuits is it possible to get a cert for the new work or would the whole installation have to comply?
Theres a section in the back of rules but it doesn't explain it really

I'd say you'd have to get the whole installation tested. I'd say a way of getting around that would be to feed the old fuseboard from the new DB and connect in the new services into the DB.

Probably the reason why a lot of upgraded fuse boards require a rewire.

I'm not sure if the Esb will want a cert if they've to move the meter, probably not seeing as how it's an existing supply so you probably won't need a cert unless it's for other reasons.

I'm currently rewiring a house but the owner knows a lad who works with the supply company (no company names)so it was moved as a nixer.

If the house owner is looking for a cert to show a correct installation you could always print off a copy of your test results.

M cebee

Ya you need a cert for meter move

meercat

M cebee wrote: »

Ya you need a cert for meter move

agree with you there

even upgrading the main tails require a cert

0868832875

Can an electrician charge for certified Labour / materials and then charge extra for certification cert ?

Sleeper12

0868832875 wrote:

Can an electrician charge for certified Labour / materials and then charge extra for certification cert ?

A tradesman can charge for anything. What was agreed upfront? Did he give a quote or did you pay by the day / hour etc?

2011

+1

Zombie thread, things have changed since this thread was started.