Martin v Adams on Prime Time tonight

Schnooks

A cripple fight between "I know nothing about anything in the Republic" Adams and "I wasn't really part of the worst decisions" Martin.

Presided over by the ex-FF cheerleader in-chief Miriam, (she wasn't long jumping ship there when thing went south). Tubs is still hanging in there, albeit quietly.

Neither of the opposition offered a single viable alternative to current policies tonight.

I'm no fan of Enda and co, but I do understand what they have inherited, from that previous shower of gangsters whose current leader was deeply involved in the madness and stupidity that went on.

If they were able to go it without Labour, I think we would see a different govt. I know one thing, nothing that was said on Prime Time tonight gave me any reason to ever think about voting for SF or FF.

vicwatson

Missed it, sounds like I missed nothing

donvito99

Get them talking about bomb-making and smoking indoors, now that would be a debate.

starbelgrade

Schnooks wrote: »

I'm no fan of Enda and co, but I do understand what they have inherited, from that previous shower of gangsters whose current leader was deeply involved in the madness and stupidity that went on

A lot of people seem to forget that Fine Gael were in opposition when Fianna Fail were in power and while they were there, they did fuck all.

Now it's all, "We're doing the best with what we inherited".

Well maybe, if you hadn't sat on your fucking hands for 10 years things might be a little different.

Politicians... they're all just a shower of self-serving cuntbags.

Some Help Please

Adams is clueless, he even makes Martin look good.

SinnFein would probably destroy FF completely if they removed Adams from southern politics. He always comes across badly and out of his debt here.

Gee Bag

Shyte like that is why I can't be bothered getting a saor view box.

Roll on 24th October.

El Weirdo

starbelgrade wrote: »

A lot of people seem to forget that Fine Gael were in opposition when Fianna Fail were in power and while they were there, they did fuck all.

Except shout that Fianna Fail weren't giving enough money away at every budget.

WumBuster

Schnooks wrote: »

A cripple fight between "I know nothing about anything in the Republic" Adams and "I wasn't really part of the worst decisions" Martin.

Presided over by the ex-FF cheerleader in-chief Miriam, (she wasn't long jumping ship there when thing went south). Tubs is still hanging in there, albeit quietly.

Neither of the opposition offered a single viable alternative to current policies tonight.

I'm no fan of Enda and co, but I do understand what they have inherited, from that previous shower of gangsters whose current leader was deeply involved in the madness and stupidity that went on.

If they were able to go it without Labour, I think we would see a different govt. I know one thing, nothing that was said on Prime Time tonight gave me any reason to ever think about voting for SF or FF.

I notice that at every available opportunity they have been using the line about how they inherited these problems and it was all FF. Sure it was but its a cop out at the same time. There is not that big a difference between FF and FG you know. They are all buddies behind closed doors. If FG were in power during the boom I dont think the outcome we find ourselves would be any different.

tayto lover

Fine Gael are simply Fianna Fail Mk. 2. Like Zig and Zag.

starbelgrade

tayto lover wrote: »

Fine Gael are simply Fianna Fail Mk. 2. Like Zig and Zag.

Zig and Zag were never in politics.

Fratton Fred

Thank god for the BBC.

nachocheese

WumBuster wrote: »

They are all buddies behind closed doors.

Oh no they're not.

WumBuster wrote:

If FG were in power during the boom I dont think the outcome we find ourselves would be any different.

Doesn't matter who was in power during the boom, the problem was the demands of the people. The government spent every last cent and then some because that's what the people wanted. If the government, regardless of party, had come out at a budget and said "lads, we're actually NOT going to spend all the money we take in next year, we're going to save some for a rainy day" they would have went the way of the Green Party only much quicker.

The whole country was drunk on a cocktail of cheap credit and terrible quality cocaine. Doesn't matter who wore the suits whatsoever.

The big problem with FF was the lasting legacy they've left us with, namely the blanket bank guarantee, croke park agreement, the farce around the oil/gas, terms of the bailout etc. That's the stuff that has us up **** creek and Fine Gael, despite their faults, I do not believe would have put us up the same path.

nachocheese

donvito99 wrote: »

Get them talking about bomb-making and smoking indoors, now that would be a debate.

Bomb making while smoking indoors, now that'd really get them going.

WumBuster

nachocheese wrote: »

Oh no they're not.

Course they are, well ok, they were until things started to go south for FF and then FG probably sensed the political opportunity so they distanced themselves from the FF debacle.



Doesn't matter who was in power during the boom, the problem was the demands of the people. The government spent every last cent and then some because that's what the people wanted. If the government, regardless of party, had come out at a budget and said "lads, we're actually NOT going to spend all the money we take in next year, we're going to save some for a rainy day" they would have went the way of the Green Party only much quicker.

The whole country was drunk on a cocktail of cheap credit and terrible quality cocaine. Doesn't matter who wore the suits whatsoever.

The big problem with FF was the lasting legacy they've left us with, namely the blanket bank guarantee, croke park agreement, the farce around the oil/gas, terms of the bailout etc. That's the stuff that has us up **** creek and Fine Gael, despite their faults, I do not believe would have put us up the same path.

demands of the people? what on earth are you talking about but I think i heard this blame the people claptrap from politicians before, not least Enda Kenny. We the people elect politicians and governments to protect the people, the economy, and to make the best decisions to safeguard future growth and economic stability, amongst other things. But the politicians were too busy helping themselves to be bothered with such things. I recommend you read the book ships of fools by Fintan o Toole and you may get a clearer understanding of what went on and is still, going on with our politicians behind closed doors

Ronin247

Gerry Adams is useless but I prefer him to listening to that annoying Mary Moo.They should have Doherty talking, because he seems to understand finance.

HeeHaw Martin is a class act,lets forget about our f*cking the economy for over a decade and blame it on the opposition not stopping us.........while we are the opposition, lets only talk about the 18 months since, when others are trying to fix our failures, and jeer the effort.

Funny how no one wants to hear Enda saying he inherited the problem but when Fianna Failure start on about west brits and blueshirt history that is ok...


They are all a bunch of c**ts, just some are bigger c**ts than others.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

nachocheese wrote: »

Oh no they're not.



Doesn't matter who was in power during the boom, the problem was the demands of the people. The government spent every last cent and then some because that's what the people wanted. If the government, regardless of party, had come out at a budget and said "lads, we're actually NOT going to spend all the money we take in next year, we're going to save some for a rainy day" they would have went the way of the Green Party only much quicker.

The whole country was drunk on a cocktail of cheap credit and terrible quality cocaine. Doesn't matter who wore the suits whatsoever.

The big problem with FF was the lasting legacy they've left us with, namely the blanket bank guarantee, croke park agreement, the farce around the oil/gas, terms of the bailout etc. That's the stuff that has us up **** creek and Fine Gael, despite their faults, I do not believe would have put us up the same path.

Savings were not what was required. Proper banking regulation and real accounting regulation and a break away from relying on cedit rating agencies to make sure debt was collateralised.

Improperly collateralised ECB debt and the cosiness of the building industry with the political elite and not enough indigenous entrepeneurship was what caused our problems.

I do not believe Noonan would have been so stupid as to make the Bank garantee...however there may have been pressure too.

I think though people have to except we need more than just a low tax rate to bring in investment and we need IRISH investment so that we can take in revenue from business so the govt has incentive to promote business and not just wealth in property which was a huge source of wealth for them.

Adams is ridiculous......and i think he knows it.....too be honest there is no one who could take his place.

The problem is SF want to be an all Ireland party.....but no one leader an represent the interests of both peoples adequately and SF refuse to acknowledge this.

A leader from DUblin would destroy the party as there main support in in the North and they need that .....but no politician from the north can understand the south and no politician from the south can understand the north.

Really they would need to have a SF south and SF north and have tow leaders....but they will never do that as it is a stark admission that the north and south are different.


Martin.....sigh...is he still here ..what is he for???

Fromthetrees

Viva la Revolución!

kowloon

starbelgrade wrote: »

Zig and Zag were never in politics.

They should be, they're honest about whose hand is up their arse controlling things.

Fenian Army

Some Help Please wrote: »

Adams is clueless, he even makes Martin look good.

SinnFein would probably destroy FF completely if they removed Adams from southern politics. He always comes across badly and out of his debt here.

That would be the Adams who is the most popular party leader, the Adams who got one of the largest % share of votes in his constituency in the GE? The one who has led his movement for decades, who was one of the the primary architects of the peace process from the late 80s?
Him?

Useless? Hardly.

I'll tell you something, I'd much rather have the likes of Adams negotiating with the IMF, ECB etc than Enda and co.

mickyd1000

It typically went to shouting over each other, ask Adams a question and he would start a history lesson. Ask Martin a question and it was all sinn fein have no clue. Ended with Martin calling out Adams about not admitting he was a murderer and full member of army council.
Same old bollox from the same old shower of tossers, as bad as Kenny answering every question with we inherited this ****e, maybe they did but stop playing with it and flush it ffs.
As usual middle classes private sector will be hit again. Whilst the play the public v private hasn't worked as expected now try and set old against young and create yellow packs in the public sector to split them. As long as the public are enraged with each other we can fiddle as Ireland burns.

jblack

Fenian Army wrote: »

I'll tell you something, I'd much rather have the likes of Adams negotiating with the IMF, ECB etc than Enda and co.

Why?

Specifically; what would be the strategic differences in approach and how would they affect current and future structure?

BillyMitchel

Only seen the end of it and the only thing that crossed my mind was: Miriam is defo worth a tug!

PauloMN

Fenian Army wrote: »

Some Help Please wrote: »

Adams is clueless, he even makes Martin look good.

SinnFein would probably destroy FF completely if they removed Adams from southern politics. He always comes across badly and out of his debt here.

That would be the Adams who is the most popular party leader, the Adams who got one of the largest % share of votes in his constituency in the GE? The one who has led his movement for decades, who was one of the the primary architects of the peace process from the late 80s?
Him?

Useless? Hardly.

I'll tell you something, I'd much rather have the likes of Adams negotiating with the IMF, ECB etc than Enda and co.

Adams always shows himself up on these debates and did so again tonight. The day he is negotiating on behalf of the country is the day I pack my bags and leave Ireland. SF will have this country in tatters if they ever get into power. Thankfully they never will cause any other party going into coalition with them would be political suicide.

Still waiting to see where his other 2bn euro is coming from, even after the "tax the rich" horse**** he spews. SF economics are fantasy land.

Fenian Army

PauloMN wrote: »

Adams always shows himself up on these debates and did so again tonight. The day he is negotiating on behalf of the country is the day I pack my bags and leave Ireland. SF will have this country in tatters if they ever get into power. Thankfully they never will cause any other party going into coalition with them would be political suicide.

Still waiting to see where his other 2bn euro is coming from, even after the "tax the rich" horse**** he spews. SF economics are fantasy land.

Better start packing so.


(is that you Ray Darcy?)

Chucky the tree

starbelgrade wrote: »

A lot of people seem to forget that Fine Gael were in opposition when Fianna Fail were in power and while they were there, they did fuck all.

Now it's all, "We're doing the best with what we inherited".

Well maybe, if you hadn't sat on your fucking hands for 10 years things might be a little different.

Politicians... they're all just a shower of self-serving cuntbags.

What should they have done in opposition then?

squod

History will recall FF, FG some senior public servants and a host of bankers as traitors. Those who set up the Anglo fraud and nearly destroyed this country.

FF = FG

mickyd1000

Fenian Army wrote: »

Better start packing so.

They won't be packing on their own that's for sure.
But realistically they dont have enough candidates to win a majority and we don't have another looney party to go into power with them. Thankfully!!!!!!!

Armaghmagic

Just watched the debate......not a lot of info but looking at what was discussed, Michael blew Gerry apart tonight.

He was happy to smile while Gerry made things even worse for himself. At least FF have policies and will admit they have some policies that will hurt people......SF on the otherhand, are all things to all men, will cut nobody's wages, everyone is happy, and yet we get out of the recession.

FF 1-0 SF on tonights showing!

I feel for the naaive people who believe Sinn Fein and everything they say without asking a few questions....like, WHERE THE HELL WILL THE MONEY COME FROM??

PauloMN

Fenian Army wrote: »

PauloMN wrote: »

Adams always shows himself up on these debates and did so again tonight. The day he is negotiating on behalf of the country is the day I pack my bags and leave Ireland. SF will have this country in tatters if they ever get into power. Thankfully they never will cause any other party going into coalition with them would be political suicide.

Still waiting to see where his other 2bn euro is coming from, even after the "tax the rich" horse**** he spews. SF economics are fantasy land.

Better start packing so.


(is that you Ray Darcy?)

SF haven't a hope thankfully. They've peaked by spoon-feeding their supporters with their wealth tax spin, and gaining a load of pissed of FFers who've nowhere left to turn. This is as good as it gets for the shinners.

Fenian Army

PauloMN wrote: »

SF haven't a hope thankfully. They've peaked by spoon-feeding their supporters with their wealth tax spin, and gaining a load of pissed of FFers who've nowhere left to turn. This is as good as it gets for the shinners.

You base that nonsense on???

Wishful thinking.

Gee Bag

Fenian Army wrote: »

That would be the Adams who is the most popular party leader, the Adams who got one of the largest % share of votes in his constituency in the GE? The one who has led his movement for decades, who was one of the the primary architects of the peace process from the late 80s?
Him?

Useless? Hardly.

I'll tell you something, I'd much rather have the likes of Adams negotiating with the IMF, ECB etc than Enda and co.

Oh Gerry, your such a dreamboat, your beard is so sexy, I love you, you can give me a punishment beating any time!

PauloMN

Fenian Army wrote: »

PauloMN wrote: »

SF haven't a hope thankfully. They've peaked by spoon-feeding their supporters with their wealth tax spin, and gaining a load of pissed of FFers who've nowhere left to turn. This is as good as it gets for the shinners.

You base that nonsense on???

Wishful thinking.

So what party will share power with them then? Even FF as screwed as they are would not go near them. Very few independents would be compatible with them either.

CZ 453

I thought Gerry Adams looked poor enough as well tonight and christ Martin looked aged....So which one really is the republican party?

666irishguy

Martin was a surprisingly wicked little devil tonight, and I have to say I was surprised by how he went after Adams. The plain fact though is they are both dead ducks and I hope neither will see leadership of this country. Sinn Fein have basically no clue on how to run a country. They have the British looking over their shoulder in the North to make sure that they don't f**k things up. It's as simple as that. They specialise in telling people what they want to hear and worry about how it will happen once their arse's are on the bench (the backbench thank god). If they ever came to power, we would all be back in the fields digging for spuds within a year. FF are no better however. They are probably going to be forever believed to be being slippier than greased eels, and that government will always be remembered as the ones who broke the country and essentially wasted the boom.

washman3

nachocheese wrote: »

the problem was the demands of the people.

The whole country was drunk on a cocktail of cheap credit and terrible quality cocaine. Fine Gael, despite their faults, I do not believe would have put us up the same path.

Hope you're speaking for yourself bud, cause you're definately not speaking for me,or indeed most of the people i know. Or maybe you've just swallowed the entire jar of pills...
This country was destroyed by a very small bunch of people, mainly FF cronies with property interests. But many FG and indeed Labour cronies had more than a passing interest in this ponzi scheme too.
In fact almost every problem this country is experiencing today has a direct link to that same property ponzi scheme.!!

nice_very

what I saw was a big sneery head on martin, trying to nitpick at SF policies, while not admitting to being part of the downfall of our country... typical blame it on the others policy from ff.... (which martin accused SF of) when were SF last in govt? who has us where we are? Gerry Adams is used to dealing with the likes of paisley etc, anyone think that martin bothers him with his bleating?

marcsignal

Schnooks wrote: »

Presided over by the ex-FF cheerleader in-chief Miriam, (she wasn't long jumping ship there when thing went south). Her balcony is still hanging in there, albeit quietly.

fyp

wonderfullife

washman3 wrote: »

Hope you're speaking for yourself bud, cause you're definately not speaking for me,or indeed most of the people i know. Or maybe you've just swallowed the entire jar of pills...
This country was destroyed by a very small bunch of people, mainly FF cronies with property interests. But many FG and indeed Labour cronies had more than a passing interest in this ponzi scheme too.
In fact almost every problem this country is experiencing today has a direct link to that same property ponzi scheme.!!

to be fair, anyone saying the sub-prime mortgage collapse in America and subsequent impact worldwide is nothing to do with us, is having a laugh. We can rightly go on about developers, cronyism, Anglo all day long but truth is there's no easy handful of cronies to blame for everything.

nordiestar

In general I support SF.

I do think it's time Gerry stood aside though and let one of the younger party members at the reigns.

No denying the man did a great job orchestrating the piece process, and getting both sides in the bitter dispute to reconcile their differences, I don't think he looked at all comfortable against Martin, and would argue that finance would be his strong point.

I just don't think the party emerges well from RTE propaganda shows when Gerry gets involved.

Dyr

Two things emerge from this

Meehaaul martins combforward is ridiculous. Miriam is still useless at her job.

Schnooks

Bambi wrote: »

Two things emerge from this

Meehaaul martins combforward is ridiculous. Miriam is still useless at her job.

Oh God yes! Why oh why is she still being picked for these debates? Remember her disgraceful behaviour at the 2007 Bertie-Enda debate where her big FF head kept butting in on Enda? Bloody RTE, full of FF lackies :mad: thank God for UPC.

LordSutch

Fenian Army wrote: »

That would be the Adams who is the most popular party leader, the Adams who got one of the largest % share of votes in his constituency in the GE? The one who has led his movement for decades, who was one of the the primary architects of the peace process from the late 80s?

Useless? Hardly.

I'll tell you something, I'd much rather have the likes of Adams negotiating with the IMF, ECB etc than Enda and co.

Of course you do realise that there is another side to Adams that you have failed to mention!

ilovesleep

starbelgrade wrote: »

A lot of people seem to forget that Fine Gael were in opposition when Fianna Fail were in power and while they were there, they did fuck all.

Now it's all, "We're doing the best with what we inherited".

Well maybe, if you hadn't sat on your fucking hands for 10 years things might be a little different.

Politicians... they're all just a shower of self-serving cuntbags.

Cùntbags, I tell ya. Cùntbags. But well said.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

Of course you do realise that there is another side to Adams that you have failed to mention!

His short stories?

Sergeant

Nodin wrote: »

His short stories?

No, his deep devotion to the teachings of Christ, his love of rural Donegal, and a passion for Aran jumpers.

tayto lover

666irishguy wrote: »

Martin was a surprisingly wicked little devil tonight, and I have to say I was surprised by how he went after Adams. The plain fact though is they are both dead ducks and I hope neither will see leadership of this country. Sinn Fein have basically no clue on how to run a country. They have the British looking over their shoulder in the North to make sure that they don't f**k things up. It's as simple as that. They specialise in telling people what they want to hear and worry about how it will happen once their arse's are on the bench (the backbench thank god). If they ever came to power, we would all be back in the fields digging for spuds within a year. FF are no better however. They are probably going to be forever believed to be being slippier than greased eels, and that government will always be remembered as the ones who broke the country and essentially wasted the boom.

The British looking over your shoulder or the Germans ? Much of a muchness.

I couldn't vote for FF, Sf, Labour, Greens or now FG. Oh how we need a new party in this forlorn country.

COYW

nice_very wrote: »

Gerry Adams is used to dealing with the likes of paisley etc, anyone think that martin bothers him with his bleating?

You can't really compare politics and political characters in NI and ROI. It is a completely different game up there. The bread & butter of politics up north when Adams was there, surrounded the past and issues arising from that. Adams is comfortable within that environment, he was part of the problem!. Down here, economics/health/education are the core issues and he is weak on those subjects. The likes of the Rev. Ian Paisley would be very straight and honest. You know what he stands for. The politicians down here are far more "cloak and dagger", in the way the sell themselves.

nordiestar wrote: »

I just don't think the party emerges well from RTE propaganda shows when Gerry gets involved.

That has nothing to do with RTE or even TV3 but more to do with the SF front line characters. SF have an awful of lot strengthening up to do. The need to drop some of the old "volunteers" and bring in bright young people, who have no negative ties, before any other party will consider entering government with them.

mickyd1000

tayto lover wrote: »

I couldn't vote for FF, Sf, Labour, Greens or now FG. Oh how we need a new party in this forlorn country.

oh I remember the heady days of an emerging new party, called themselves the PD's wonder what ever became of the dream?

washman3

mickyd1000 wrote: »

oh I remember the heady days of an emerging new party, called themselves the PD's wonder what ever became of the dream?

They looked for a mandate to enter government and end corruption.!!
Ended up being "more corrupt than the corruptors themselves"

P.S. they've rode off into the sunset with massive lump sums and pensions.:mad:

tayto lover

washman3 wrote: »

They looked for a mandate to enter government and end corruption.!!
Ended up being "more corrupt than the corruptors themselves"

P.S. they've rode off into the sunset with massive lump sums and pensions.:mad:

True but we still need an alternative to what we have now. I genuinely can't vote for any of them and many others feel the same way.

Dyr

COYW wrote: »

That has nothing to do with RTE or even TV3 but more to do with the SF front line characters. SF have an awful of lot strengthening up to do. The need to drop some of the old "volunteers" and bring in bright young people, who have no negative ties, before any other party will consider entering government with them.

ORLY: Take a look at what's in gubberment right now. Komrades gilmore, rabbite and the rest of the sticky refugees from the tootings people front.