schuko to UK/Irish converter

Jacknaw

I think this is probably the best place to ask this,

I have a laptop charger with a schuko plug like this one


And have one of these earthed converters


I was just wondering if it makes any difference which wayround I put the schuko in the converter? there is a metal section each side of the schuko so just wasn't sure.

Thanks

M cebee

it prob shouldn't,
i'm assuming the adapter has an earth contact top and bottom?
can you see it?

important that the adapter has a fuse,preferably 3amp

Jacknaw

M cebee wrote: »

it prob shouldn't,
i'm assuming the adapter has an earth contact top and bottom?
can you see it?

important that the adapter has a fuse,preferably 3amp

No it only seems to have an earth contact on the bottom (main section) of the adapter, and it has a 5amp fuse, it came with the laptop but no instruction so just want to be careful.

2011

Jacknaw wrote: »

No it only seems to have an earth contact on the bottom (main section) of the adapter

Schuko sockets are unpolarized

The Schuko socket has an earth connection top and bottom (see no. 2 in the picture). So regardless of which way the plug is inserted it will have an earth connection.

Jacknaw

2011 wrote: »

Schuko sockets are unpolarized Schuko sockets are unpolarized

The socket that it goes into has an earth connection top and bottom (see no. 2 in the picture). So regardless of which way the plug is inserted it will have an earth connection.

Sorry I mean the converter I have only has an earth on the bottom main part of plug, so I just wondering if it matters which way round I put the schuko in to the converter, so you mean it won't matter as both the metal pieces on each side of the schuko plugs are earths?


edit...Ya beat me on the edit:) okay so once I know it doesn't matter.

Thanks guys

M cebee

yes, my bad
the adapter only needs 1 earth contact

Jacknaw

M cebee wrote: »

yes, my bad
the adapter only needs 1 earth contact

Thanks, I just wasn't sure if both sides of a schuko plug are earths, I suppose I had it in my head that each prong has to go in to a certain hole in the wall socket the same as you have to wire a plug the right way, but I guess with those plugs it doesn't matter which prong goes where.

Thanks

Solair

If it's a fairly standard laptop charger you can pick up a replacement mains cable in most decent electronics shops / PC world etc.. etc..
Very cheap.

Probably neater job than fitting a rewirable plug or using that bulky adaptor.

lightnin

Would it not also be an issue if the unpolarized plug caused the adapter fuse to end up on the neutral side of the supply?

2011

lightnin wrote: »

Would it not also be an issue if the unpolarized plug caused the adapter fuse to end up on the neutral side of the supply?

The adapter will have a BS1363 13A plug top. This device can only be plugged in to the wall socket one way and it contains the fuse. Therefore the fuse will be on the phase.

lightnin

Sorry what i meant to explain is, can the unpolarized plug be rotated in the adapter so now the appliance cable neutral is now fused instead of the live.
So for example is it possible to rotate the schuko plug in this style adapter so that it fits in both ways?

M cebee

schuko appliance cords dont have a polarity

13amp cords do-doesnt make a difference here if theres a figure 8 connector on the end anyhow

lightnin

Northern European mains plugs can be connected right way up or upside down so if using an adapter you can connect live to neutral or vice versa.

European practice is to use double pole protection and switching so polarity is not an issue, over here UK/Eire practice is to use single pole fusing and switching so therefore reversing polarity can cause a hazard.

The danger to consider is as the German plug is not polarized, depending on which way round the Schucko is inserted you may end up with the adapter fuse protecting the neutral side of the cable feeding power to the electrical appliance.

M cebee

I don't know much about schuko
As you say the continent uses DP protective devices
Schuko appliances and cords have no polarity
SP mcb's and 13 amp fuses will operate correctly in event of fault
I don't see an additional hazard here

Solair

lightnin wrote: »

Northern European mains plugs can be connected right way up or upside down so if using an adapter you can connect live to neutral or vice versa.

European practice is to use double pole protection and switching so polarity is not an issue, over here UK/Eire practice is to use single pole fusing and switching so therefore reversing polarity can cause a hazard.

The danger to consider is as the German plug is not polarized, depending on which way round the Schucko is inserted you may end up with the adapter fuse protecting the neutral side of the cable feeding power to the electrical appliance.

I beg to differ.

European appliances (including those sold in Ireland with UK plugs) are designed to operate entirely safely in either polarity as EU plugs are generally unpolarised. The only exceptions to this were ancient antique televisions or other devices which used the chassis as neutral. This was outlawed decades ago.

Double pole protection is not required as when the plug is inverted the blue wire effectively becomes the live and the brown the neutral. The fuse, switch and mcb protection are on the fixed wiring and thus will always be on the actual live (regardless of which wy the plug goes in). Where a fused adaptor is used, the same applies, the fuse will always be on the live as the Irish plig can only go in one way,ensuring that is so.

Double pole protection is required in some countries because two lives are used in some older areas (legacy 127V+127V) wiring. Or, as is the case in France, TT supplies are the norm and neutral may not be 0V, as it is not always referenced to ground.

There are plenty of countries that use schuko with single pole mcb protection.

Ireland and Britian should probably require double pole mcbs on TT supplies too. TN-C / "neutralised" supplies are the modern norm here. They connect the neutral to earth at multiple points along the route to the transformer and at the meter. So, unless there's a neutral fault, you can generally assume neutral is 0V this single pole protection is deemed to be sufficient.

Using a schuko plug in Ireand with a fused adaptor, or with a schuko socket on a 16 A radial will provide exactly the same level of safety as using one on the continent.

Schuko, when used with recessed schuko sockets is also a very robust, safe fitting.

M cebee

i suppose the reverse polarity on the appliance internal wiring could be considered an issue in some cases-for instance white goods(if you were working live),i haven't seen any adapters on bigger appliances

i connected a single phase bandsaw a while back-the polarity had been reversed during assembly.
that is a hazard and i emailed the supplier about it.

anyone know why?
(except 2011,he already knows)

lightnin

M cebee wrote: »

i suppose the reverse polarity on the appliance internal wiring could be considered an issue....

This is the issue i have, as an appliance with a IEC C14 single switched/fused inlet will now be switching/fused on a neutral supply so anyone opening said appliance thinking power is off due to the appliance fuse being blown or being switched off will get a nasty surprise.

This is why camper/caravaners going abroad to eu campsites are recommended to bring a reversing lead to maintain correct polarity for their uk appliances.

electricity-for-campers-and-caravanners...Whether the site provides modern or a two pin connection, there is always the possibility that the electrical supply will come with reversed polarity. This means that when equipment is switched off it may not be electrically isolated.

If faced with a reverse polarity situation it is possible to make up a short adapter lead to deal with reverse polarity, where the wiring within one end of the lead is reversed

Reverse polarity Adapter tester Set

M cebee

lightnin wrote: »

M cebee wrote: »

i suppose the reverse polarity on the appliance internal wiring could be considered an issue....

This is the issue i have, as an appliance with a IEC C14 single switched/fused inlet will now be switching/fused on a neutral supply so anyone opening said appliance thinking power is off due to the appliance fuse being blown or being switched off will get a nasty surprise.

This is why camper/caravaners going abroad to eu campsites are recommended to bring a reversing lead to maintain correct polarity for their uk appliances.

electricity-for-campers-and-caravanners...Whether the site provides modern or a two pin connection, there is always the possibility that the electrical supply will come with reversed polarity. This means that when equipment is switched off it may not be electrically isolated.

If faced with a reverse polarity situation it is possible to make up a short adapter lead to deal with reverse polarity, where the wiring within one end of the lead is reversed

Reverse polarity Adapter tester Set

yes-but that's a different matter

those schuko to 16amp socket adaptors for a caravan aren't safe without confirming polarity-if they're even safe at all


the caravan parks should prob be providing the correct 16amp sockets for foreign visitors not unpolarised sockets

Solair

This is why they always stress that before working on *any* appliance you should physically remove the plug from the socket.

Relying on single pole switching assumes the polarity of the fixed wiring is correct in the first place.

There have been fatal accidents in Ireland where sockets were incorrectly wired resulting in the supply not being switched off. One incident I read about involved isolating a boiler by switching a switch socket off. It turned out the socket or circuit had its polarity reversed.

Also, a neutral fault or a TT supply system could result in hot neutrals in Ireland or Britain too.

Some older wiring doesn't even clearly identify which is live and which is neutral which can result in reversed polarity.

Never, ever assume neutral is zero volts! You treat neutral wiring as live until proven otherwise in fixed wiring and for appliance servicing pull the plug unless you know it's a double poll switch isolator!

with regard to the caravan park, realistically, the only protection would be double pole breakers.

There is absolutely no guarantee that the supply has a 0V neutral.

You could have a floating neutral on a TT system or you could even have two 127V lives in some places too!

Wiring a caravan intended for use in Europe as if we're a house in Dublin is just not adequate.

lightnin

My stance is this, as i see it here all the time at work with new equipment supplied with schuko power leads. Either i cut the schuko plug top off and rewire with a BS 1363 plug or replace with a Uk IEC power lead. If your plugging into a uk/irish power outlet it should be with uk iec power cord with a BS 1363 plug, end of-no adapters. Why introduce a potential hazard with foreign power leads and adapters when its easily preventable.
That way there is no introduction of a potential hazard with a L-N reversal as would be the case with the use of a schuko power lead and adapter.
In Ireland we have polarity checks on fixed wiring installations for a reason so why stop at the socket outlets and not continue this best practice all the way down to the end unit including the internal wiring. If socket outlets are wired incorrectly that's just down to bad wiring practice by an individual but the use of foreign power leads with adapters is not.
Anyways my view on the situation is in agreement with this safety flash from Cambridge Universities Head of Electronics Chris Moss, & Safety Officer, Jane Blunt.....

ANY non-UK plug and adaptor found will be confiscated without warning!............The reason for this is that colour codes vary and we wish to avoid having plugs with the polarity incorrect, or worse!

M cebee

yes- cut off the schuko plug and replace it,best job.

the discussion is all over the place re:fault disconnection,schuko to 16amp adapters and isolation-all different things

Solair

I agree with that, foreign plug adaptors shouldn't be a long term solution.

The other issue is that whole BS 1363 (Irish/UK) and CEE 7 (Schuko family of connectors) are extremely well regulated and safe when used with their native sockets and wiring, adaptors are a grey area and are often not regulated or controlled at all.

There are some absolutely lethal international adaptors around!

I wouldn't suggest that adaptors should ever be used other than as a very short term thing eg a tourist and certainly not with high power appliances!

Always better to fit the correct local plug.