Redeployment and CID

jtothed

Hi All,

I was wondering if anybody could help me. Next September, i am entering my 4th year in my school, therefore due a CID. Will my position be protected next summer as I am entering my CID year?

gaeilgebeo

jtothed wrote: »

Hi All,

I was wondering if anybody could help me. Next September, i am entering my 4th year in my school, therefore due a CID. Will my position be protected next summer as I am entering my CID year?

If you are in your 3rd year now, your position is not protected next summer.
You need 4 years completed to be eligible for a CID

bdoo

jtothed wrote: »

Hi All,

I was wondering if anybody could help me. Next September, i am entering my 4th year in my school, therefore due a CID. Will my position be protected next summer as I am entering my CID year?

You will get a cid if there are no grounds to refuse a grant. The likelihood of getting a cid when there may have to be redeployment in your school would be slight unless you are the only teacher of a subject or such. If there is an over supply of teachers or projected falling enrollments then an objective ground may be introduced.

In any case the redeployment scheme applied to permanent wholetime teachers and cid holders. Your employment may be safe but your place of work would not be guaranteed

The Cid cones after year four.

jtothed

Thanks to you both. My principal implied that he thought coming in to year four that no one could be redeployed to my position.

rainbowtrout

jtothed wrote: »

Hi All,

I was wondering if anybody could help me. Next September, i am entering my 4th year in my school, therefore due a CID. Will my position be protected next summer as I am entering my CID year?

Your position is not safe until you have completed your fourth year and are starting your fifth year. Only when you start your fifth year will your CID be granted.

Seanchai

Not to hijack this thread but I've two questions from it:

1) If you start your 1st year mid-year, say February 1 2009, do you get your CID on February 1 2013, or do you have to wait until September 2013 for it?

2) How many years do you have to have a CID for before you can get permanent status? Or how does CID transfer into a permanent contract (and what's the difference between both)?

bdoo

Seanchai wrote: »

Not to hijack this thread but I've two questions from it:

1) If you start your 1st year mid-year, say February 1 2009, do you get your CID on February 1 2013, or do you have to wait until September 2013 for it?

2) How many years do you have to have a CID for before you can get permanent status? Or how does CID transfer into a permanent contract (and what's the difference between both)?

It's at the expiration of your fourth successive fixed term contract.

CID holders have the same rights a permanent employees. The only difference is in name. That is the view of the unions and it has been confirmed by the Department.

Some teachers think that the dept made up CIDs to suit themselves and screw teachers. It's based on European law, CIDs exist in all sectors across Europe.

saffron77

I was redeployed this year into a school where the teacher was going into the 4th year. So we are living proof of the Croke Park agreement and that this can happen. Very unfortunate situation for me and the teacher that lost job!!

rainbowtrout

saffron77 wrote: »

I was redeployed this year into a school where the teacher was going into the 4th year. So we are living proof of the Croke Park agreement and that this can happen. Very unfortunate situation for me and the teacher that lost job!!

Yep, a teacher in my school lost her job at the end of four years in May. Is at the other side of the country doing a maternity leave this year. Lucky to have work I suppose but thought she would be secure after her fourth year.

jtothed

Thanks to all for your help! It is so frustrating waiting for a CID when the hours are my own

bdoo

rainbowtrout wrote: »

saffron77 wrote: »

I was redeployed this year into a school where the teacher was going into the 4th year. So we are living proof of the Croke Park agreement and that this can happen. Very unfortunate situation for me and the teacher that lost job!!

Yep, a teacher in my school lost her job at the end of four years in May. Is at the other side of the country doing a maternity leave this year. Lucky to have work I suppose but thought she would be secure after her fourth year.

Rainbowtrout, had she completed the four years ? Out of interest, do you know was there any ground in her contract saying that there may be a redeployment?

I understand that after three successive contracts it can only be renewed once more and for a max of one year - was the redeployment on the cards a year beforehand?

rainbowtrout

bdoo wrote: »

Rainbowtrout, had she completed the four years ? Out of interest, do you know was there any ground in her contract saying that there may be a redeployment?

I understand that after three successive contracts it can only be renewed once more and for a max of one year - was the redeployment on the cards a year beforehand?

Oh there was no redeployment, I was referring to a teacher that was let go in May after teaching for four years. She would have had to have been brought back this September to start her fifth year for her CID to kick in.

She was the guidance counsellor.

bdoo

rainbowtrout wrote: »

bdoo wrote: »

Rainbowtrout, had she completed the four years ? Out of interest, do you know was there any ground in her contract saying that there may be a redeployment?

I understand that after three successive contracts it can only be renewed once more and for a max of one year - was the redeployment on the cards a year beforehand?

Oh there was no redeployment, I was referring to a teacher that was let go in May after teaching for four years. She would have had to have been brought back this September to start her fifth year for her CID to kick in.

She was the guidance counsellor.

The must have put it in her fourth contract

ed06

I thought that if you have done four years all on your own hours you had to get a CID unless when signing your 4th contract you were given a written objective ground stating that the hours would no longer be available. The union have too clarified this for me as I am just gone into my fourth year with all my own hours and given no objectie grounds!

rainbowtrout

ed06 wrote: »

I thought that if you have done four years all on your own hours you had to get a CID unless when signing your 4th contract you were given a written objective ground stating that the hours would no longer be available. The union have too clarified this for me as I am just gone into my fourth year with all my own hours and given no objectie grounds!

But you are not entitled to a CID just by starting your fourth year, you have to complete your fourth year and be brought back for a fifth year to get a CID and then your contract is based on the hours you had in your fourth year.

The clarification in your contract is there to say that say you are on 18 hours th is year that you are entitled to an 18 hour contract next year, not that you were on 12 hours of your own and 6 from a job share or something else which wasn't your own or unsustainable in the long run. Different scenario from the teacher in my school.

rainbowtrout

bdoo wrote: »

The must have put it in her fourth contract

No idea. We are VEC and she was in a different school for the first three years. As guidance hours were scrapped with the budget last year then that made her position untenable I suppose. We already had someone on staff who was permanent and qualified in guidance so the few hours allocated to it has been given to them

ed06

"But you are not entitled to a CID just by starting your fourth year, you have to complete your fourth year and be brought back for a fifth year to get a CID and then your contract is based on the hours you had in your fourth year. "

when you sign your fourth contract it has to state that "you will not be receiving a CID". if you have had all your own hours for four years solid and did not receive an objective ground at the time of signing your forth contract you must receive a CID when starting year five, they cant just get rid of you after four years if no objective ground was given. Its clearly stated on the union website. i have too checked it with the union. you cannot be redeployed after your fourth year. this can only happen after your fifth. your considered safe for the 5th year!
Qualifying for a CID

The granting of CIDs for teachers is governed by Circular 0034/09.


"In order to qualify for a CID you must:
be registered with the Teaching Council
hold appropriate qualifications, including a PGDE/H.Dip/PDE
Have in excess of four years continuous teaching service, under two or more successive written contracts of employment with the same employer that were paid for by monies provided by the Oireachtas
Teachers who meet the above criteria will be entitled to a CID unless:
Their post will not be viable within a reasonable period, and this was set out as an objective ground in writing in the previous contract
They are covering for a teacher on an approved scheme of leave of absence and this was set out as an objective ground in writing in the previous contract."

saffron77

ed06 wrote: »

"But you are not entitled to a CID just by starting your fourth year, you have to complete your fourth year and be brought back for a fifth year to get a CID and then your contract is based on the hours you had in your fourth year. "

when you sign your fourth contract it has to state that "you will not be receiving a CID". if you have had all your own hours for four years solid and did not receive an objective ground at the time of signing your forth contract you must receive a CID when starting year five, they cant just get rid of you after four years if no objective ground was given. Its clearly stated on the union website. i have too checked it with the union. you cannot be redeployed after your fourth year. this can only happen after your fifth. your considered safe for the 5th year!
Qualifying for a CID

The granting of CIDs for teachers is governed by Circular 0034/09.


"In order to qualify for a CID you must:
be registered with the Teaching Council
hold appropriate qualifications, including a PGDE/H.Dip/PDE
Have in excess of four years continuous teaching service, under two or more successive written contracts of employment with the same employer that were paid for by monies provided by the Oireachtas
Teachers who meet the above criteria will be entitled to a CID unless:
Their post will not be viable within a reasonable period, and this was set out as an objective ground in writing in the previous contract
They are covering for a teacher on an approved scheme of leave of absence and this was set out as an objective ground in writing in the previous contract."

Re deployment only affects teachers who are either permanent or CID holders. To answer the OP's question really, you have to finish your fourth year with your own hours to get a CID.However, you could be replaced by a redeployed teacher at the end of your third year- which is what happened in my case. I was the redeployed teacher. The goalposts seem to move all the time- spend so long trying to get a CID and then redeployment happens. Anyway best of luck to all those seeking CID's and remember teachers who are redeployed in most cases don't want to be and certainly don't want anyone to lose their jobs.