The push to get us all free GP appts?

NIMAN

I heard on the radio this morning about the commitment to make GP appts free for everyone, and I honestly don't think this is a good idea.

Bear with me on this;)

Speaking as someone who came from NI where there is free GP appts, you get packed surgeries, and can often take 2 or 3 weeks to get an appt. People go to the GP for practically anything.

Now take the case of RoI, where I now reside. We have to pay €50 for a GP appt for my OH or the kids, but we can normally get an appt within 24hrs, or even same day. I think its a lot to pay, and maybe if Ms Shortall wanted to reform it, she could maybe make it cost 50% less or so, maybe 10 - €20 or so? That would be more acceptable but I think it would stop it being abused, as I think if something is free it is taken advantage of, and would cost the Gov, and us taxpayers.

Thoughts?

waxon-waxoff

Agree with you.

Im at home with food poisoning/ tummy bug of some sort thats going on for a few days. Maybe i should see a doctor at this stage but i dont want to pay €50 to be told to eat toast and rest so ill wait til im losing a limb before i visit a doctor.

Dont think the doctors could cope with a big increase in patients anyway, half the country on medical cards already so the surgeries are busy enough. The Government never consider the negative sides of human nature when they think up these things. When you get stuff for free you dont respect it, if you have to work for it you do.

lazeedaisy

as far as i know the push is to get the GP Card for people on long term illness first. That was to happen this summer and never did. As for getting it for all of us - thats not really on the agenda as there are far more people in the que before us and they cant even get it.

I know quite a few diabetics who were to get it and still have to pay to go to their GP just for their checkup and prescriptions - it is these type of people that they were talking about initially.

spank_inferno

You are correct OP.

However I think a step towards free GP care would be no bad thing.

In my home town it takes about 2-4 days to get an appointment.
When arriving the place teems with the elderly and other medical card patients.

I get my 5-10 mins and fork out €50 for the pleasure.
I might do this once per year at most.

If everyone was to pay €10... no waivers / no freebies there would probably be more resources available.

As it stands though there is nowhere near enough GPs to meet a free-for-all demand.

Dannyboy83

The standard of the GPs in Ireland is not held in high regard among our European neighbours, and they are used as an entry point for everything else anyway
For example, if you need an MRI - go see a GP, get referred to a specialist, get your scan.

I don't think they can ethically sustain the old system any longer because a lot of GPs now do essentially secretarial work.

NIMAN

spank_inferno wrote: »

If everyone was to pay €10... no waivers / no freebies there would probably be more resources available.

I don't think those who get it free now should pay a fee, but I think those who pay full price maybe could get a subsidy of maybe 50%.

Tbh, I wouldn't be pushing for free GP appts. Maybe for children under 5 or 6 or something but not for working adults. I don't expect it. I did think it was a bit much paying €50 a handful of times for a small baby who I thought needed to be seen. You know how new parents are!!

spank_inferno

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't think those who get it free now should pay a fee.

Why not?

Something as modest as €10 could prove a useful disincentive to those who are down at the surgery every single day.

woodoo

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The standard of the GPs in Ireland is not held in high regard among our European neighbours.

How do you know that?

In my local surgery most people have medical cards and the surgery is frequently packed. I would support a charge of at least €10 for a doctors visit.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

I too support a small charge.


Infact if you needed regular visits you could get this refunded or something.

But seriously it would overwhelme the amount of GPS that we have right now.

If we are to have universal healthcare we need more Doctors and people going through UNI.

We recently were told that there will be cuts to beds and the working relationship between ministers and the HSE is so bad at the moment surely our resources might be better put to use.

Where is the money to pay for GPS going to come from??? We end up paying anyway.

Will GPS not feel it is simply overworkingt them without mch financial gain and leave?


Will there be a fall in the standard of care?


I agree in a small disincentive charge of something and to be hnest i like the option of being able to go private if i want to.


And consultant fees i would imagine are more important as they treat more serious illnesses.

My GP visits are free, and I'd also happily pay a small fee (wouldn't deter me. I never really visit my GP anyway, and when I do, a small fee certainly wouldn't put me off). €10 would seem more than fair enough for those who currently get it free, in my opinion.

Slurryface

I pay a flat fee of €15 per month and can see the GP as often or seldom as I need to, also does Blood Tests, ECG, etc on the premises at no extra charge.
Personally I think it is a brilliant system.
I would be very concerned about giving people "free" anything, I think all services should have at the very least, a nominal charge applied to them.

Maura74

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

Agree with you.

Im at home with food poisoning/ tummy bug of some sort thats going on for a few days. Maybe i should see a doctor at this stage but i dont want to pay €50 to be told to eat toast and rest so ill wait til im losing a limb before i visit a doctor.

Dont think the doctors could cope with a big increase in patients anyway, half the country on medical cards already so the surgeries are busy enough. The Government never consider the negative sides of human nature when they think up these things. When you get stuff for free you dont respect it, if you have to work for it you do.

Well you could go to the pharmacist for treatment and advice therefore no need to go to doctor for a tummy bug unless it is contagious.

Why do you think it would be a big increase in people going to doctors surgeries for treatment anyway, do you think people have the time to visit doctors for the fun of it. Of course you respect free care, maybe not other material stuff, but certainly care about health care that has and is always been respected especially if it get you better. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

lazeedaisy

Slurryface wrote: »

I would be very concerned about giving people "free" anything, I think all services should have at the very least, a nominal charge applied to them.

I also think that those who dont pay at the moment should not - I am happy to pay for myself - I rarely go and if i spend a lot of money sure I can get some of it back on my tax at the then of the year,

However, I do think that children under school going age should be free, But then if it were the system would be abused, the same way it is abused by those who are 65+. I can speak from experience because the local rural GP office is full of OAP's and they run in for the slightest thing - hopefully when we get to that age we wont abuse it - but then it wont be there for us.

I think that those on the Long Term Illness books should definitiely get at least two free visits a year - because if they are managing their illness - a lot depends on what it is - they only need 2 visits to maintain it - diabetics in particular. I know a guy who is a diabetic and gets to see the diabetic nurse once a year, another one who has to go weekly because he doe snot manage it - thats abuse

But I do not think people who are ill should have to pay at all,

My tuppence worth anyway

murphaph

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The standard of the GPs in Ireland is not held in high regard among our European neighbours, and they are used as an entry point for everything else anyway
For example, if you need an MRI - go see a GP, get referred to a specialist, get your scan.

I don't think they can ethically sustain the old system any longer because a lot of GPs now do essentially secretarial work.

Tis an interesting point. Here in Germany there are far fewer GP's and many more specialists. You see the signs walking about the neighbourhood "Dermatologist, Doctor of Internal Medicine, ENT" etc. etc. and far fewer "GPs". People usually know if they need to see a particular type of doctor these days and here you can just go straight to a specialist rather than faffing around with GP referrals.

Maybe in the cities it's more practical and out in the sticks GPs are the norm, don't know. Probably will always be more GPs in the sticks who can refer on to specialists in the towns if need be as the specialists wouldn't have enough to do in small villages.

creedp

lazeedaisy wrote: »

I also think that those who dont pay at the moment should not - I am happy to pay for myself - I rarely go and if i spend a lot of money sure I can get some of it back on my tax at the then of the year,

However, I do think that children under school going age should be free, But then if it were the system would be abused, the same way it is abused by those who are 65+. I can speak from experience because the local rural GP office is full of OAP's and they run in for the slightest thing - hopefully when we get to that age we wont abuse it - but then it wont be there for us.

I think that those on the Long Term Illness books should definitiely get at least two free visits a year - because if they are managing their illness - a lot depends on what it is - they only need 2 visits to maintain it - diabetics in particular. I know a guy who is a diabetic and gets to see the diabetic nurse once a year, another one who has to go weekly because he doe snot manage it - thats abuse

But I do not think people who are ill should have to pay at all,

My tuppence worth anyway

I would also support a GP visit fee if only €5 as this might stop people attending the GP for completely frivulous reasons. Although some people support free visits for OAP's they then say everytime they visit a GP their surgery is full of OAP's many of whom have no need to be there. GP surgeries should not be a social gathering site and a very small co-payment might help to stop wasteful use of the service.

As for the recent proposal to give free GP care to persons with long term illnesses I also have a difficulty as my understanding is that it only applies to people who currently have a long term illness covered by the Long Term Illness Scheme. The conditions covered by the Scheme are limited and those who are covered receive free drugs (are also exempt for prescription charge) irrespective of how wealthy they are. Why are we now also giving them free GP services? At present if these people are not well off they will also have a medical card of GP visit card and so already have free GP care so this proposal seems to be giving wealthier people who already have free drugs free GP care. I wold much prefer to give this services to people who have long term illnesses not covered by the Long Term Illness Scheme who currently have to pay over €1,500 a year for their necessary prescribed medication under the Drug Payment Scheme. These people need a break. Many don't fill their monthly prescriptions as they cant afford the €132 every month under the DPS. Im sure they are delighted to hear that someone on the LTI Scheme who is already €1,500 a year better off than they are is now going to get free GP care as well while they continue to have to fork out €50 to €60 per visit. For me this is a very regressive proposal as it is not targetting those most in need.

Maura74

lazeedaisy wrote: »

- I rarely go and if i spend a lot of money sure I can get some of it back on my tax at the then of the year,

However, I do think that children under school going age should be free, But then if it were the system would be abused, the same way it is abused by those who are 65+. I can speak from experience because the local rural GP office is full of OAP's and they run in for the slightest thing - hopefully when we get to that age we wont abuse it - but then it wont be there for us.

I think that those on the Long Term Illness books should definitiely get at least two free visits a year - because if they are managing their illness - a lot depends on what it is - they only need 2 visits to maintain it - diabetics in particular. I know a guy who is a diabetic and gets to see the diabetic nurse once a year, another one who has to go weekly because he doe snot manage it - thats abuse

But I do not think people who are ill should have to pay at all,

My tuppence worth anyway

Wow, you rarely go to doctors but you know why 65+ are there to abuse the system, how do you know this:rolleyes::rolleyes: Do you sit in with patients during their consultations with their doctors that looks a bit older than you:pac: Also how do you know patients/strangers age, do you just ask them their age when you make rare the visit to the doctors, if so, you are very brave person to go up to a patients/stranger and asked them their personal details. Perhaps you get this information from the doctors, but that would be illegal.:eek:

spank_inferno

Maura74 wrote: »

Wow, you rarely go to doctors but you know why 65+ are there to abuse the system, how do you know this:rolleyes::rolleyes: Do you sit in with patients during their consultations with their doctors that looks a bit older than you:pac: Also how do you know patients/strangers age, do you just ask them their age when you make rare the visit to the doctors, if so, you are very brave person to go up to a patients/stranger and asked them their personal details. Perhaps you get this information from the doctors, but that would be illegal.:eek:

No need to piss on the guys post Maura.
We all know surgerys that are all but full of OAPs from 9am onwards.

My better half spent a year as a GP receptionist and can testify to the same. Today being friday (always a busy day for some reason) I'm certain the waiting area of my home GP clinic will be full of old people nattering away to each other..... chances are my Gran will be there!
The woman is there most weeks, though there is nothing wrong with her.

The way I see it.... I pay a health tax (now USC) for others to reap the benefit.
If I'm sick, I get over it because I cannot afford to miss work and pay €50 to see a GP for 5 mins to tell me I am sick!

A small charge for all means more resourses for all... means more fairness for all.

I fail to see the point

Maura74

spank_inferno wrote: »

No need to piss on the guys post Maura.
We all know surgerys that are all but full of OAPs from 9am onwards.

My better half spent a year as a GP receptionist and can testify to the same. Today being friday (always a busy day for some reason) I'm certain the waiting area of my home GP clinic will be full of old people nattering away to each other..... chances are my Gran will be there!
The woman is there most weeks, though there is nothing wrong with her.

The way I see it.... I pay a health tax (now USC) for others to reap the benefit.
If I'm sick, I get over it because I cannot afford to miss work and pay €50 to see a GP for 5 mins to tell me I am sick!

A small charge for all means more resourses for all... means more fairness for all.

I fail to see the point

I am sure when a lot of people get sick they get over it without running to the doctors with a headache or upset tummy especially elderly people that is the last place they would want to visit.

Posts comes across as ageism against older people. Remember these people would have worked much harder all their lives than younger workers of today. Pensioners are not soft they have had a hard life and work and paid their taxes, so now they are judges by going to their doctors and others classing them as taking up doctors time because nothing is wrong with them. Again how could a receptionist a(layperson) know this unless they reading patients notes and discussing it with others but that's not allowed. S/he should be sacked immediately.

Should older people not talk when in surgeries, I know when I unfortunately have to go see my doctor and if I saw a neighbour if I knew sitting next to me, I would talk to that person as it would take my mind off going into see the doctor and indeed if anyone else spoke to me I certainly would not ignore them as that would be rude. Also, I am sure if there was nothing wrong with a patient his/her doctor would not be long in referring that patient to somewhere else.

Most disabilities are not visible and just because other able bodies people are not able to see others illness/conditions does not mean that elderly people have to justify to other in a surgery in seeing their doctors.

However, if the the same patients are at surgery every week and as you say, with nothing wrong with them:o it would be up to their doctor to refer them to a facility that would benefit them more than waiting in a depressing doctors waiting room with other people germs all around.

We all pay taxes that we do not benefit from, such as people with no children they pay for schools and children allowances and indeed for children abroad that they do even live in the country that the tax payer reside in.

Also I would not pay a doctor £50 to a doctors to tell me I am sick as I would know that before I went to him/her for a consultations. Why not go to the chemist they are qualified and would be able to advise you before going to see a doctor.

Dannyboy83

Maura74 wrote: »

Also I would not pay a doctor £50 to a doctors to tell me I am sick as I would know that before I went to him/her for a consultations. Why not go to the chemist they are qualified and would be able to advise you before going to see a doctor.

The point is that he's already paying for the service, but can't avail of it, as he has to pay again.
Going to a chemist instead of a doctor is not a solution to that problem.

Is it fair to say that a lot of those who 'abuse' the system, such as the elderly, will probably be able to do it for free anyway, since many of them have medical cards?

I constantly hear on the radio about how prostate cancer and other diseases are unusually high in Ireland. And the rate of men attending the doctor is extremely low, compared to women.
Most men I know wouldn't go to the doctor because they'd feel guilty about wasting the money, meaning symptoms which could be picked up early on, are being totally ignored.

It's like knowing about a design flaw in a car, but choosing not to fix it until the car is already built.

I think we have it all wrong.
Need to make GPs cheap and accessible, catch the bugs early on when they're cheap and easy to fix, not later when they require specialists.

Maura74

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The point is that he's already paying for the service, but can't avail of it, as he has to pay again.
Going to a chemist instead of a doctor is not a solution to that problem.

Is it fair to say that a lot of those who 'abuse' the system, such as the elderly, will probably be able to do it for free anyway, since many of them have medical cards?

I constantly hear on the radio about how prostate cancer and other diseases are unusually high in Ireland. And the rate of men attending the doctor is extremely low, compared to women.
Most men I know wouldn't go to the doctor because they'd feel guilty about wasting the money, meaning symptoms which could be picked up early on, are being totally ignored.

It's like knowing about a design flaw in a car, but choosing not to fix it until the car is already built.

I think we have it all wrong.
Need to make GPs cheap and accessible, catch the bugs early on when they're cheap and easy to fix, not later when they require specialists.

I am really shocked by ageism towards elderly people on here. Some posters were implying that pensioners were using their doctor’s surgery for social events.

I agree doctors should be picking up major illness before it become a big problem, but as you say men are reluctant to go to their doctors surgery as they may be not able to afford it or think of it as wasting money but if they do not look after themselves and their health goes what good is money to them or their families then.
It is a big problem in UK as well and there was a TV campaign about embarrassing symptoms, such as prostate cancer in men and bowel cancer that affects everyone.

Elderly people are more prone to catching infections and other aged related conditions which fewer younger will be less likely to have such as arthritis and osteoporosis and of course dementia is a very big problem in Ireland with 40,000 and UK with over 800,000 suffering from that dreadful conditions, but its not diagnosed until it is too late and the damage has been done.

UK has flu jabs for pensioners and it is free, but younger people will have to pay for it as they will be more able to fight the infections unless they are classed as disabled.

I feel that health care should be free at point of contact for everyone in Ireland. Or at least there should be a free check-up once years for everyone like a MOT such as on cars.
I was very surprised to see how many posters here felt that it should not be free as they would have to put with lots of elderly people abusing it, this does not make sense at all.

I am aware that some men are the sole breadwinners of the family and have more difficult time getting off work for doctor’s appointments and being ill because it does not go down too well with employer in today’s job market. Also now employer can ask how many days you have been off ill during the past five years.

It is difficult when it is employers market now in the recession.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health/

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/en/CheckSymptoms

Boulevardier

The UK has had free GPs (at the point of use) since 1948.

Their primary care system, for all its problems, is still way better than ours. I can vouch for that, having used it between 1987 and 1999.

They also get prescription drugs at a fraction of the price we pay.

Even during a period of huge prosperity, we in this country did nothing to create a similar system.

Can anyone tell me why anyone in the North should bother supporting a united Ireland while such a state of afairs lasts?

djpbarry

Maura74 wrote: »

I am really shocked by ageism towards elderly people on here.

As am I – it’s ridiculous to assume that everyone over the age of 65 is frail, in poor health and incapable of paying for their own health care.

Maura74 wrote: »

I was very surprised to see how many posters here felt that it should not be free as they would have to put with lots of elderly people abusing it, this does not make sense at all.

It makes plenty of sense. According to a recent NHS survey, 51 million GP visits per year are totally unnecessary:

http://www.southofengland.nhs.uk/2012/07/12/51-million-unnecessary-gp-visits-nhs-investigate-why/

That’s FIFTY-ONE MILLION: an absolutely staggering waste of GPs’ time and taxpayers’ money.

Free GP visits are a really, really bad idea.

djpbarry

Boulevardier wrote: »

The UK has had free GPs (at the point of use) since 1948.

Their primary care system, for all its problems, is still way better than ours.

Bollocks it is.

Boulevardier wrote: »

They also get prescription drugs at a fraction of the price we pay.

We also pay far more in national insurance contributions.

Boulevardier wrote: »

Even during a period of huge prosperity, we in this country did nothing to create a similar system.

This is the same system that virtually everyone in the UK acknowledges is in dire need of major reform?

snickerpuss

Everytime this comes up I think of my nanny who goes to the doctor at least twice a week for every concievable problem - crick in her neck, funny feeling in her ear, feeling a bit dizzy. Nothing that urgently needs a GP. It's a total waste of money. And annoying since I often haven't gone to the doctor because I just haven't got €50.

PS Not being ageist. I love my nanny!

lazeedaisy

I took 6 months of from my job last year to move from Dublin to a very rural area. It took a lot of work so I figured why not.

I had to bring my in laws to the doc at least twice a week - first him on a monday - and her on a weds for blood tests, YES - it is a social visit in their GP surgery. Being a jackeen - who goes to the doc when we have to - to finding myself in the middle of nowhere with a load of OAP's who meet to go to the docs for the tea and coffee - and having to wait to bring them home because they treat it like a social visit. Its the highlight of the week for a lot of them - so yes I can prove it - and it happens where I live. The doctors encourage it - the nearest day centre for the old folks is quite a bit away and its a headache from the HSE to get lifts, they dont want to, there is no library - but they have a mobile one that comes by. So the particular area has a pub, a shop, a garage, a school and the church - where else can they go!

They are abusing the system - another thing, i used pick up all their scripts - the doc gives them the same medication time and again and they wont fess up and tell the doc they dont need or want particular medication - sure its free - why not - and its not medication I am talking about - the stuff to make them use the bathrooms more regularly - sure we could sell it as they both get a litre bottle a month! the doc gets a particular amount to see medical card patients and they encourage people to come back - ah sure - just to make sure everythign is ok....

so yes - i know what i am talking about because coming from Dublin that kind of abuse had never been seen by myself. :eek:


oh and Maura 74 - I have done alot of work with HIQA and part of that was to do surveys in GP offices - in the run up to the standards being released. but dont ever assume the over 65's are frail - look what happened when the govt threatened to take their medical cards off them. and for the record - I think I am a brave person all the same - thanks


I am not ageist - I dont think this country treats our senior citizens well - you just have to look at the closure of the nursing homes, I am just pointing out a fact that NOT JUST over 65's but people with medical cards - SOME of them - abuse the system.

Also, There is a very large percentage of people on the long term illness scheme that actually work. Its these people that do not get free GP visits - sure thats why the government are talking about introducing the scheme for them initially.

Making GP visits relatively cheap wil not make man go - its the mind set that they dont and you have to change that - there is no way they will be encouraged to go coz its cheaper - its not about the money now.

Most GP surgeries I have visited are open either before during or after working hours to enable people working to work around the hours.

Anyway - I dont mind dropping the MIL off for a cuppa on a weds for her social visit - it gives me a couple of hours to do my own thing!

SO fair play to the OAP's who tie up this particular surgery - as they are not taking any new referrals as they are creaming it with what they have, the guy has other GP's working for him and is alwasy boasting about the cheques the HSE sends him,

I am not being ageist either -

The few times I have to go to the doc - I too find it hard to pay for it. and i dont go to this rural GP.

EoghanConway

Slurryface wrote: »

I pay a flat fee of €15 per month and can see the GP as often or seldom as I need to, also does Blood Tests, ECG, etc on the premises at no extra charge.
Personally I think it is a brilliant system.

As do I, for working people. In fact I would love to see a tax break scheme for employers to provide this for employees.

Slurryface wrote: »

I would be very concerned about giving people "free" anything, I think all services should have at the very least, a nominal charge applied to them.

I agree, the difference between free and even one measly cent is vast.

A charge of just one euro would be enough to make people stop and say "well, do I REALLY need to go to the doctor?"

Maura74 wrote: »

Posts comes across as ageism against older people. Remember these people would have worked much harder all their lives than younger workers of today.

Isn't that just baseless ageism against younger workers? Who could possibly even judge that?

Dannyboy83

djpbarry wrote: »

Bollocks it is.
This is the same system that virtually everyone in the UK acknowledges is in dire need of major reform?

This is true, but they simultaneously acknowledge it's superior to what we have in Ireland (assuming you're not a medical card holder that is, in which case the Irish system is probably one of the better health systems in Europe.)

GarIT

I have a medical card but I don't think it should be free.

I think the best way of doing it would be €40 for Adults, €20 for children, €10 for adults with medical cards and €5 for children with medical cards.

djpbarry

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This is true, but they simultaneously acknowledge it's superior to what we have in Ireland...

I wouldn't be too sure of that at all. For example, according to OECD surveys, the Irish health care system scores better than the UK in several areas. For example, Ireland has more doctors and nurses per head of population than the UK. Ireland also has far more CT and MRI scanners per capita. The number of hospital beds per capita are similar. Based on personal experience, I don't think there's much to choose between them - they both suffer from similar organisational problems.

creedp

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

It's like knowing about a design flaw in a car, but choosing not to fix it until the car is already built.

I think we have it all wrong.
Need to make GPs cheap and accessible, catch the bugs early on when they're cheap and easy to fix, not later when they require specialists.

I like this analogy and will take it a step further. Most of us would service our car regularly because we know if we don't we are likely to hit much higher bills down the road when things actually go wrong and we could get left by the side of the road, etc. This is preventative maintenance. The same applies to ourselves except most won't go for preventative maintenace to a GP but will wait until a problem has actually arisen and in many cases has actually escalated. The difference between car and the person is that the cost of repairing the car remains with the person while the incremental medical costs associateed with serious illness will fall on Govt and the taxpayer. So it is in the taxpayers interest that cost does not remain a barrier to acessing GP servcies as it will inevitally result in lower costs and higher std of health down the road.

Maura74

djpbarry wrote: »

As am I – it’s ridiculous to assume that everyone over the age of 65 is frail, in poor health and incapable of paying for their own health care.

I never said anywhere that everyone over the age of 65 is frail, in poor health and incapable of paying their own care. All you got to do is look at his man that ran the marathon at the age of 100!
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/news/regions/americas/canada/oldest-marathon-runner-centenarian-toronto

djpbarry wrote: »

This is the same system that virtually everyone in the UK acknowledges is in dire need of major reform?

Of course it needs reform at present it is international health services not national health services therefore the system is not serving the tax payer well.

snickerpuss wrote: »

Everytime this comes up I think of my nanny who goes to the doctor at least twice a week for every concievable problem - crick in her neck, funny feeling in her ear, feeling a bit dizzy. Nothing that urgently needs a GP. It's a total waste of money. And annoying since I often haven't gone to the doctor because I just haven't got €50.

PS Not being ageist. I love my nanny!

Have you actually sat your nan down and talk to her why she needs to visit the GP so often when you know that there is nothing wrong with her.

You survive not seeing your doctor otherwise you would not be able to post on here.

GarIT wrote: »

I have a medical card but I don't think it should be free.
I think the best way of doing it would be €40 for Adults, €20 for children, €10 for adults with medical cards and €5 for children with medical cards.

Give your card back if you do not want it is not mandatory to keep it or use it.

djpbarry wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure of that at all. For example, according to OECD surveys, the Irish health care system scores better than the UK in several areas. For example, Ireland has more doctors and nurses per head of population than the UK. Ireland also has far more CT and MRI scanners per capita. The number of hospital beds per capita are similar. Based on personal experience, I don't think there's much to choose between them - they both suffer from similar organisational problems.

Correct.

GarIT

Maura74 wrote: »

Give your card back if you do not want it is not mandatory to keep it or use it.

I'll use it while I have it, what I'm saying is if there was a small fee charged it would be completely understandable.

Maura74

GarIT wrote: »

I'll use it while I have it, what I'm saying is if there was a small fee charged it would be completely understandable.

Fair enough, however a small fee to you may not be hardship but to a woman that did not work and brought up a family and is now widow with no pensions with only the standard state pension that would be a lot for that person and the same for younger disabled people as well. I do not know about Ireland but in the UK from what I read benefits are very difficult to get when you have a disability and the government is making everyone go for tests again to see if they can work, but there is no work available for anyone now.

It is well known that being kept active this is beneficial for everyone especially older people in care homes, but there are no facilities in these places for them to do exercise such as swimming that would not have such as bad effect on their older people bones. Unfortunately, it's all about money today, people do not matter when you have passed their sell by date.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/05/oldest-woman-to-finish-a-_n_844972.html

hmmm

When I go to see my GP it's packed with medical card patients. I'm the one paying my taxes, yet I'm also the one who has to avoid seeing the GP because I have to pay for my visits while they visit to get a prescription everytime they need paracetomol.

"Free" anything will always be abused, there should be a charge for everyone.

Maura74

hmmm wrote: »

When I go to see my GP it's packed with medical card patients. I'm the one paying my taxes, yet I'm also the one who has to avoid seeing the GP because I have to pay for my visits while they visit to get a prescription everytime they need paracetomol.

"Free" anything will always be abused, there should be a charge for everyone.

Yes but pensioners have paid their taxes as well do you want them to keep paying their taxes and not take the state pension that they may have contribute towards??:eek:

Again people assume far too much when they go to their GP they know when people are paying and how old they are, I would find it very difficult to tell if some one is 63, or 64, which would not make them pensioners.

People in Ireland can die if they got no money to see their GP what a sorry state of affairs that is, just like the US, show the colour of your money first and they you will be treated and may live.

Glad I do not live in Ireland anymore. :eek::eek:

avalon68

spank_inferno wrote: »

No need to piss on the guys post Maura.
We all know surgerys that are all but full of OAPs from 9am onwards.

My better half spent a year as a GP receptionist and can testify to the same. Today being friday (always a busy day for some reason) I'm certain the waiting area of my home GP clinic will be full of old people nattering away to each other..... chances are my Gran will be there!
The woman is there most weeks, though there is nothing wrong with her.

The way I see it.... I pay a health tax (now USC) for others to reap the benefit.
If I'm sick, I get over it because I cannot afford to miss work and pay €50 to see a GP for 5 mins to tell me I am sick!

A small charge for all means more resourses for all... means more fairness for all.

I fail to see the point

The system is fundamentally flawed - yes there is a shortage of GPs, but the vast majority of people in a waiting room at any one time could be seen to be a nurse, or nurse practitioner. Thats the kind of system we need to move towards, one where doctors only see patients that are genuinely ill, and rountine checkups, blood draws, vaccinations are done by nurses. A pre-screening of patients if you will, where the serious cases get sent through to the doctor.....I dont have a problem with making visits free, but as already mentioned, it will lead to overflowing GP offices unless they can up the flow through. It would also provide employment for all of our recent nursing grads who have no hope of work right now, and for once would be a good use of tax money to improve the system

djpbarry

Maura74 wrote: »

Yes but pensioners have paid their taxes...

How do you know?

Maura74 wrote: »

People in Ireland can die if they got no money to see their GP what a sorry state of affairs that is, just like the US, show the colour of your money first and they you will be treated and may live.

An ill person in Ireland will not be refused essential treatment if they cannot afford to pay for it.

djpbarry

avalon68 wrote: »

It would also provide employment for all of our recent nursing grads who have no hope of work right now...

Ireland already employs a huge number of nurses.

avalon68

djpbarry wrote: »

Ireland already employs a huge number of nurses.

Yes I know that - employing them in doctors offices might actually help with patient care, perhaps at a lower rate of pay that a hospital nurse as it would be a 9-5 gig mainly. Ireland has to embrace a shift towards better local care facilities, especially with so many hospitals losing A&E departments. Take Germany for example - my aunt lives there and her local GP has the facilities to draw and analyse blood (rapid results), take xrays, bandage up sprains and strains and simple breaks. In Ireland if I twist an ankle - I go to the GP, who sends me off to the nearest hospital for an xray, where I wait for hours while more urgent cases get seen to (and rightly so!), only to be told in broken english by a doctor who looks monumentally pissed off with life in general, that nothing is broken and its just a sprain. I then get sent to a nurse, where i wait a few more hours and finally leave with a bandage (and whatever infections I might have been exposed to by touring through the hospital that I never needed to visit!). Its a ridiculous system which places far too much pressure on the hospital system. Local clinics staffed by nurses/nurse practitioners and GPs would be far more effective in dealing with minor ailments such as there, leaving the hospitals free for more serious cases.

thebman

Why not just regulate the prices rather than introduce free GP's for all?

There is a middle ground between 50 euro a go and free that is a reasonable price.

GP's price gouge those that pay at the moment it seems as they are usually the regular PAYE worker again.

Free GP care for all will just mean increased taxes for PAYE so what is the difference between that and just continuing to pay 50 euro a go except if you don't go often, your now also subsidisng those that go often.

I'm sure GP's love the idea of government sponsored GP visits. Seems like in 5-10 years, it will be costing us a fortune and we'll be wondering what we were ever thinking.

Maura74

thebman wrote: »

Why not just regulate the prices rather than introduce free GP's for all?

There is a middle ground between 50 euro a go and free that is a reasonable price.

GP's price gouge those that pay at the moment it seems as they are usually the regular PAYE worker again.

Free GP care for all will just mean increased taxes for PAYE so what is the difference between that and just continuing to pay 50 euro a go except if you don't go often, your now also subsidisng those that go often.

I'm sure GP's love the idea of government sponsored GP visits. Seems like in 5-10 years, it will be costing us a fortune and we'll be wondering what we were ever thinking.

Pensioners that have moved back to Ireland have their medical fees paid by the UK government. Irish doctors charge £6000 per patients. That is a lot of money and it is more than the rest of EU charges.

It is at the end of BBC programme for all to view it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nbryp/Panorama_Britains_Secret_Health_Tourists/