Any protestants in NI that feel Irish?

davet82

The whole mcilroy saga got me thinking, i've heard of catholics and people with Irish surnames (so not just religion) feeling British. I remember reading a survey about a small minority of catholics who would rather stay under british rule...

is there any prodestants or people of that desent that would feel irish and would like a united ireland?

i'm just curious, i'm not looking for a debate on the politics of it just if there any people that feel that way, sort of a vice-versa of the mcilroy thing?

Heroditas

I know plenty of Northerners who are Protestants but feel very much "Irish".
They just don't want to be part of a country run from Dublin.
As one of them once told me: "I'm Irish, but I'm also British"

Grolschevik

I've met several Northern Protestants who would consider themselves to be Republicans politically.

Where To

I know plenty of protestants who consider themselves Irish. I know plenty of protestants who consider themselves british. I know plenty more who couldn't give a fluck.

davet82

Heroditas wrote: »

They just don't want to be part of a country run from Dublin.

i cant really blame them for that bit, think half the country feels like that at them moment!

Crooked Jack

I have a few nationalist/republican protestant friends. They're very much in the minority but they're definitely there

davet82

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I have a few nationalist/republican protestant friends. They're very much in the minority but they're definitely there

i find that really strange, what influnced them into taking that view do you know? Do they live in a mainly nationalist area or something?

Heroditas

davet82 wrote: »

i cant really blame them for that bit, think half the country feels like that at them moment!

More than half!!

Seaneh

A lot of the ulster rugby boys would be protestant and very much considers themselves to be Irish.

Stinicker

They are Irish whether they like it or not and they cannot escape this as they live in Ireland. Northern Ireland is an artificial commodity created by the partition of the island. It is a political oddity.

Francie Barrett

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I have a few nationalist/republican protestant friends. They're very much in the minority but they're definitely there

Really? I have never met any. I know a few Protestants who have no problem labeling themselves as being Irish, but I have never met any nationalist Protestants.

Stinicker

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Really? I have never met any. I know a few Protestants who have no problem labeling themselves as being Irish, but I have never met any nationalist Protestants.

Some of Ireland's most prominent Nationalists were Protestants, Sam Maguire and Douglas Hyde for example. Religion should have nothing to do with the conflict and what is the occupation of 1/6th of Ireland was allowed descend into sectarian conflict by the British and Unionist majority and their bigoted ways.

RikkFlair

Just on the McIlroy thing, I believe Darren Clarke would identify himself as Irish. To be fair he probably sees himself as Britsh/N.Irish also, but he did pose with the tricolour at the Ryder cup, something which McIlroy of course quickly discarded when someone threw him one at the US Open.

That said, Clarke did say that he was glad to be holding the Orange part of the flag. :pac:

sureitsgrand

Google Billy Leonard.

Interesting man.

iDave

Eddie Irvine i believe is a protestant but was never comfortable with the Union flag being raised when he won. He tried to get the FIA to introduce a compromise flag but they werent having any of it. He also moved to Dublin but not sure if hes still here.

Fuinseog

are there any shinners in the north who speak Irish?

is there anyone in south county dublin who does not feel west british?

Francie Barrett

Stinicker wrote: »

Some of Ireland's most prominent Nationalists were Protestants, Sam Maguire and Douglas Hyde for example. Religion should have nothing to do with the conflict and what is the occupation of 1/6th of Ireland was allowed descend into sectarian conflict by the British and Unionist majority and their bigoted ways.

I am talking about Protestant nationalists in Northern Ireland today.

LordSutch

Stinicker wrote: »

Some of Ireland's most prominent Nationalists were Protestants, Sam Maguire and Douglas Hyde for example. Religion should have nothing to do with the conflict and what is the occupation of 1/6th of Ireland was allowed descend into sectarian conflict by the British and Unionist majority and their bigoted ways.

You were doing so well until the last part, so I crossed it out.

Border-Rat

I grew up with the Captain of the National Cricket Team. He was a bit of a Loyalist at school, I guess he grew out of it.

J Cheever Loophole

Brian Keenan.

krudler

Popcorn! get your popcorn!

Fuinseog

wolfe tone, Chas Stuart Parnell.

henry mountcharles

cloptrop

The fella who started the Home Rule movement was protestant as far as I remember . And yer man who got caught trying to smuggle guns from the spanish and shot was as well can never
remember names.

minidazzler

Stinicker wrote: »

They are Irish whether they like it or not and they cannot escape this as they live in Ireland. Northern Ireland is an artificial commodity created by the partition of the island. It is a political oddity.

Ireland is an artificial country created by boundaries of the sea though it was never truly united. The High Kings/King of Tara were NOT in charge of a country that was united by any manner of means.

Seaneh

minidazzler wrote: »

Ireland is an artificial country created by boundaries of the sea though it was never truly united. The High Kings/King of Tara were NOT in charge of a country that was united by any manner of means.

Fail.

Ireland is the geographical name for an Island in the north Atlantic.

Irish is the name given to the people who live on the Island.

Border-Rat

Seaneh wrote: »

Fail.

Ireland is the geographical name for an Island in the north Atlantic.

Irish is the name given to the people who live on the Island.

And even Scotland. The Roman term for 'Irish' was Scot was it not?

Topper Harley

RikkFlair wrote: »

Just on the McIlroy thing, I believe Darren Clarke would identify himself as Irish. To be fair he probably sees himself as Britsh/N.Irish also, but he did pose with the tricolour at the Ryder cup, something which McIlroy of course quickly discarded when someone threw him one at the US Open.

Well there's plenty of debate over that too. Some think he discarded the tricolour while others say a security guard pulled it away. I myself believe even if he didn't want to pose with it he would make sure to have gotten rid of it discretely as he has always tried to avoid the issue so as not to upset anyone and keep their support. Which is fair enough, there's enough division as it is and it's slowly going away and he doesn't want to be the cause of it flairing up again.

Fuinseog

do people really give a toss where they live and who rules them as long as they can live a decent life with a decent job?

Seaneh

Border-Rat wrote: »

And even Scotland. The Roman term for 'Irish' was Scot was it not?

Well the word Scotland comes from Scoti, which basically means of Ireland...

Seaneh

Fuinseog wrote: »

do people really give a toss where they live and who rules them as long as they can live a decent life with a decent job?

It's only in the last 2 decades that nationalists in the north could live a decent like with a decent job

No wonder they care who rules them when they were denied basic human rights.

Fuinseog

Seaneh wrote: »

Well the word Scotland comes from Scoti, which basically means of Ireland...

Scotland or Scotia Major is an irish colony. we should take it back.

LordSutch

Ian Paisley is a proud Irishman, but within a British context of course.

Many people seem to strugle with the concept of being British & Irish, but its not uncommon in Ireland or Britain to be both at the same time!
The same goes for being Scottish & British, Welsh & British, Indian & British, or Polish & British, and the list goes on . . . . . .

Fuinseog

Seaneh wrote: »

It's only in the last 2 decades that nationalists in the north could live a decent like with a decent job

No wonder they care who rules them when they were denied basic human rights.

what was it like for non catholics in the republic, a case of keep your mouth shut and your head down.

Dyr

LordSutch wrote: »

Ian Paisley is a proud Irishman, but within a British context of course.

Many people seem to strugle with the concept of being British & Irish, but its not uncommon in Ireland or Britain to be both at the same time!
The same goes for being Scottish & British, Welsh & British, Indian & British, or Polish & British, and the list goes on . . . . . .

you did'nt mention english & british

p.oconnor

LordSutch wrote: »

Ian Paisley is a proud Irishman, but within a British context of course.

I'm sure Ian Paisley was once asked during an interview if he considered himself Irish, in no uncertain terms he snapped back saying he was a British man and that's all.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Seaneh wrote: »

Fail.

Ireland is the geographical name for an Island in the north Atlantic.

Irish is the name given to the people who live on the Island.

It is also the name of the country.

Not everyone on this island considers themselves 'Irish' regardless of being born here.

Topper Harley

p.oconnor wrote: »

I'm sure Ian Paisley was once asked during an interview if he considered himself Irish, in no uncertain terms he snapped back saying he was a British man and that's all.

I'm fairly sure he also once said that you can't be an Ulsterman without being an Irishman. I'll look for a source on that now ... await my return.

Happyman42

LordSutch wrote: »

Ian Paisley is a proud Irishman, but within a British context of course.

Many people seem to strugle with the concept of being British & Irish, but its not uncommon in Ireland or Britain to be both at the same time!
The same goes for being Scottish & British, Welsh & British, Indian & British, or Polish & British, and the list goes on . . . . . .

Call it what it is... a 'conveinience'. It allows them to give their allegiance to Mrs Winsdor. In effect, it means nothing and dressing up in bowler hats to ape the British gentleman class won't change what you are...Irish, in just the same way that dressing up as a zombie doesn't make you one.

LordSutch

Bambi wrote: »

you did'nt mention english & british

Dead right, I thought of it too late.

Seaneh

Fuinseog wrote: »

what was it like for non catholics in the republic, a case of keep your mouth shut and your head down.

I know tons of Anglicans, Methodists and Prysby's and none of experienced any bother past the odd "proddy ****" from some knkacked in secondary school.

In fact, there has always been a lot of Protestants in high level civil service jobs in the Republic.

Where as, the reverse wasn't allowed in the north.

Topper Harley

Ian Paisley wrote:

I was born in the island of Ireland. I have Irish traits in me - we don't all have the traits of what came from Scotland, there is the Celtic factor ... and I am an Irishman because you cannot be an Ulsterman without being an Irishman.

- J. Loughlin, Ulster Unionism and British National Identity Since 1885 (London and New York, 1995), p. 217.

LordSutch

Happyman42 wrote: »

In effect, it means nothing and dressing up in bowler hats to ape the British gentleman class won't change what you are...Irish, in just the same way that dressing up as a zombie doesn't make you one.

You seem to be confusing British identity with the English upper classes (bowler hat image and all that). But in reality being British can mean many things to many people.

p.oconnor

Topper Harley wrote: »

- J. Loughlin, Ulster Unionism and British National Identity Since 1885 (London and New York, 1995), p. 217.

I think old Paisley can't make up his mind:)

Where To

Seaneh wrote: »

Fuinseog wrote: »

what was it like for non catholics in the republic, a case of keep your mouth shut and your head down.

I know tons of Anglicans, Methodists and Prysby's and none of experienced any bother past the odd "proddy ****" from some knkacked in secondary school.

In fact, there has always been a lot of Protestants in high level civil service jobs in the Republic.

Where as, the reverse wasn't allowed in the north.

There aren't many Anglicans in Ireland.

dlofnep

p.oconnor wrote: »

I think old Paisley can't make up his mind:)

He is also on record in recent years stating "I would never repudiate the fact that I am an Irishman".

dlofnep

Fuinseog wrote: »

are there any shinners in the north who speak Irish?

Yes, heaps at a very high level.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

Fratton Fred

Where To wrote: »

Seaneh wrote: »

Fuinseog wrote: »

what was it like for non catholics in the republic, a case of keep your mouth shut and your head down.

I know tons of Anglicans, Methodists and Prysby's and none of experienced any bother past the odd "proddy ****" from some knkacked in secondary school.
In fact, there has always been a lot of Protestants in high level civil service jobs in the Republic.
Where as, the reverse wasn't allowed in the north.

There aren't many Anglicans in Ireland.

Nip down to christchurch Sunday morning.

Seaneh

Where To wrote: »

There aren't many Anglicans in Ireland.

There are plenty.

Almost every large urban area has at least one Anglican church.

Sir Pompous Righteousness

davet82 wrote: »

i find that really strange, what influnced them into taking that view do you know? Do they live in a mainly nationalist area or something?

I imagine it's quite simple really. Republicanism is ideologically superior to monarchism. Also, republicanism is far more secular than monarchism, especially British monarchism where the monarch is the head of the Anglican faith.

These Republican/Nationalist Protestants might have been from a different line of Protestantism, maybe Presbyterian or Quaker, etc... Also, they might have been Protestants of Irish descent.

There were a few native Irish who converted to Protestantism during and after the Reformation, so they're not all imports form Scotland/England. There is definitely a history of Irish Republican/Nationalist amongst protestants in Ireland, take the United Irishmen as an example. So I certainly don't see there existence today as very unusual.

There needs to be a shift from sectarian-esque republicanism/nationalism in NI to the secular principles espoused by the likes of the United Irishmen.

p.oconnor

dlofnep wrote: »

He is also on record in recent years stating "I would never repudiate the fact that I am an Irishman".

Old Paisley seemed to have mellowed an awful lot over the past 10 years, I think he and other unionists realised if Catholics/Nationalists were refused power-sharing in the north it would directly lead to the unification of Ireland.