Any protestants in NI that feel Irish?

Iwasfrozen

AEDIC wrote: »

Why would (although imho more should) everyone need to speak Irish to learn the National Anthem? You are talking about learning and repeating lines of test that never change and is less than 60 lines long.

Hardly the As Gailge version of War and Peace now is it?

So you suggest to just learn off sounds without knowing the meaning? Hardly facilitates a sense of national purpose.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Neither are you the Irish people and just because you cant sing it doesn't mean most people cant. I sincerely doubt the majority cant sing it, is i not taught in most schools? Not to mention that anyone with any link to the GAA will probably know it as it is played at all matches. What are you basing that assertion on?

Yes the majority cant sing it. You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think they can. Ask the average person on the street and they will only know the first couple of lines.

AEDIC

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So you suggest to just learn off sounds without knowing the meaning? Hardly facilitates a sense of national purpose.

Its a start.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So you suggest to just learn off sounds without knowing the meaning? Hardly facilitates a sense of national purpose.

He clearly said "learning" not "mimicking." I would take learning to mean understanding where it comes from and what it means. I learned it myself as a young fella and it stuck with me, wasnt difficult.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes the majority cant sing it. You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think they can. Ask the average person on the street and they will only know the first couple of lines.

Again I ask what are you basing that on? You and your friends? I saw 80 odd thousand people belting it out with gusto on Sunday

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

He clearly said "learning" not "mimicking." I would take learning to mean understanding where it comes from and what it means. I learned it myself as a young fella and it stuck with me, wasnt difficult.

I don't see what the problem here is. I honestly thought this would be a non issue. Why don't you want the national anthem sung in english?

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Again I ask what are you basing that on? You and your friends? I saw 80 odd thousand people belting it out with gusto on Sunday

:rolleyes:

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I honestly don't see what the problem here is. I honestly thought this would be a non issue. Why don't you want the national anthem sung in english?

Because that isnt the national anthem. the national anthem is Amhrán na bhFiann.
Also, this is Ireland and I think it's only appropriate that the national anthem be in the national language. It's no harm at all for people to put a wee bit of effort into learning it.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Good answer, you've convinced me

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Because that isnt the national anthem. the national anthem is Amhrán na bhFiann.
Also, this is Ireland and I think it's only appropriate that the national anthem be in the national language. It's no harm at all for people to put a wee bit of effort into learning it.

I know it isn't the national anthem. That's why i want to change it. And sure you can say it's no harm for people to put some effort into learning it but realistically that won't happen.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Good answer, you've convinced me

Words fail me if you really think 80k people were singing as gaeilge yesterday.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I know it isn't the national anthem. That's why i want to change it. And sure you can say it's no harm for people to put some effort into learning it but realistically that won't happen.



Words fail me if you really think 80k people were singing as gaeilge yesterday.

If somebody isnt going to bother to learn their anthem in Irish, in all likelihood they arent the type of person to learn it in any language.

Words fail me if you think the vast majority of GAA members wouldnt know the words to the national anthem.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

If somebody isnt going to bother to learn their anthem in Irish, in all likelihood they arent the type of person to learn it in any language.

Words fail me if you think the vast majority of GAA members wouldnt know the words to the national anthem.

That's the thing. When the anthem is in your own language you don't need to learn it. You pick it up by absorption. I know the words of The Star-Spangled Banner and God Save the Queen but have never learned them. They just become part of popular culture. The translation of the Solider's Song has held back widespread knowledge of it.

And please. Next you'l be telling me everyone who plays gaelic speaks Irish too. what nonsense.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's the thing. When the anthem is in your own language you don't need to learn it. You pick it up by absorption. I know the words of The Star-Spangled Banner and God Save the Queen but have never learned them. They just become part of popular culture. The translation of the Solider's Song has held back widespread knowledge of it.

And please. Next you'l be telling me everyone who plays gaelic speaks Irish too. what nonsense.

Ridiculous straw man argument. The national anthem is played at every GAA match and function. Most people would have at the very least picked it up, as you say, through absorption.
Im also at a loss as to why you think members of an organisation specifically set up to promote and protect Irish culture wouldnt have any interest in learning their national anthem.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Ridiculous straw man argument. The national anthem is played at every GAA match and function. Most people would have at the very least picked it up, as you say, through absorption.
Im also at a loss as to why you think members of an organisation specifically set up to promote and protect Irish culture wouldnt have any interest in learning their national anthem.

Bringing up the GAA in the first place was a straw man argument. Pot meet kettle. Sure some of them would know it but not the majority and even at that GAA members are only one section of our society. As I've said to AEDIC learning off sounds without knowing the meaning is hardly going to inspire us to a sense of national purpose or unity.

Now i ask you again. Why would you be averse to having a new anthem in english composed? It wouldn't be expensive and it could be included without a referendum if labour ever implement their plan for a new constitution. It's not like this new anthem wouldn't have an irish version. It just wouldn't be the official version.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Bringing up the GAA in the first place was a straw man argument. Pot meet kettle. Sure some of them would know it but not the majority and even at that GAA members are only one section of our society. As I've said to AEDIC learning off sounds without knowing the meaning is hardly going to inspire us to a sense of national purpose or unity.

Now i ask you again. Why would you be averse to having a new anthem in english composed? It wouldn't be expensive and it could be included without a referendum if labour ever implement their plan for a new constitution. It's not like this new anthem wouldn't have an irish version. It just wouldn't be the official version.

I have already answered this. The current national anthem has historic value and meaning. Something new would just end up being some awful empty rubbish like Ireland's Call.
As I said earlier Irish is the national language and it's only appropriate the national anthem is in the national language.
Also as I said earlier AEDIC said people should learn the song, not mimic the sound, again, another straw argument.
Im also appalled that you think something like the national anthem shouldnt be put to a referendum.
You can also keep your pot and kettle, I brought up the GAA as a relevant and recent example of a large number of people singing the national anthem.

LordSutch

Crooked Jack wrote: »

The current national anthem has historic value and meaning. Something new would just end up being some awful empty rubbish like Ireland's Call. As I said earlier Irish is the national language and it's only appropriate the national anthem is in the national language.

Surely in the context of this 'Thread Title' Amhrán na bhFiann is not appropriate for Unionists (as explained in #284).

swimming in a sea

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I have already answered this. The current national anthem has historic value and meaning. Something new would just end up being some awful empty rubbish like Ireland's Call.
As I said earlier Irish is the national language and it's only appropriate the national anthem is in the national language.
Also as I said earlier AEDIC said people should learn the song, not mimic the sound, again, another straw argument.
Im also appalled that you think something like the national anthem shouldnt be put to a referendum.
You can also keep your pot and kettle, I brought up the GAA as a relevant and recent example of a large number of people singing the national anthem.

As anthems go I like Ireland's Call, it sounds better you can understand it and it's not wrote to piss people off.

Crooked Jack

swimming in a sea wrote: »

As anthems go I like Ireland's Call, it sounds better you can understand it and it's not wrote to piss people off.

It most certainly does not sound better (although that's going to be a matter of opinion), I'd say more people can understand it than can't and how was it written to piss people off?

Crooked Jack

LordSutch wrote: »

Surely in the context of this 'Thread Title' Amhrán na bhFiann is not appropriate for Unionists (as explained in #284).

Any Irish national anthem is not going to be "appropriate" for unionists. The Thread title asks if protestants (distinct from unionists)in the north feel Irish, protestantism is a wide and varied family, I wouldn't presume to suggest how they feel en masse about Amhrán na bhFiann

BQQ

swimming in a sea wrote: »

As anthems go I like Ireland's Call, it sounds better you can understand it and it's not wrote to piss people off.

And yet, it still pisses a lot of people off.

bernardamaac.

BQQ wrote: »

And yet, it still pisses a lot of people off.

Oh ya hate it.Besides who cares if unionist's dislike our national anthem i dont like there's?

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I have already answered this. The current national anthem has historic value and meaning. Something new would just end up being some awful empty rubbish like Ireland's Call.

No song has history when it's first written. I disagree totally that a new anthem can't have value or meaning. In fact writing a new one would give us a chance to include the values and meaning of modern irish society. And not song proud militaristic anti-brit bragging from arguably the most militarily weak country in the EU.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

As I said earlier Irish is the national language and it's only appropriate the national anthem is in the national language.

Again if there is a new constitution, and i think we should only change the anthem if there is one, irish may not be the national language. Sure it will probably still be an official language or one of two national ones. But I can't see it keeping the privileged position Dev gave it. This will all be for the better of course because it gives us more scope to argue issues like the anthem, or translating documents and it's status as a compulsory language in schools.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Also as I said earlier AEDIC said people should learn the song, not mimic the sound, again, another straw argument.

What people should and do are not aways the same. Realistically most irish people can't sing their own anthem. This is a problem and we should look for solutions to this problem. The cheapest being to write a new anthem in english. Or hell even use the soldier's song in it's original language. That would work as a compromise.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Im also appalled that you think something like the national anthem shouldnt be put to a referendum.
You can also keep your pot and kettle, I brought up the GAA as a relevant and recent example of a large number of people singing the national anthem.

Oh it would be voted on. As part of a larger referendum to adopt the new constitution. But referendum's are expensive and it wouldn't be feasible to hold one on the anthem alone. And seriously? Going la la la la laaa, la la la la la eeeireannn, is not singing the national anthem.

swimming in a sea wrote: »

As anthems go I like Ireland's Call, it sounds better you can understand it and it's not wrote to piss people off.

It's a **** song and I would hate it see it as our national anthem.

bernardamaac. wrote: »

Oh ya hate it.Besides who cares if unionist's dislike our national anthem i dont like there's?

Ah let's not let bias get in the way. God Save the Queen has one of the nicest tunes of any anthem. Words aside it's far nicer then our own. And all the British people can sing along to it as well.

AEDIC

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And not song proud militaristic anti-brit bragging from arguably the most militarily weak country in the EU.


Ah let's not let bias get in the way. God Save the Queen has one of the nicest tunes of any anthem. Words aside it's far nicer then our own. And all the British people can sing along to it as well.

Ahhh lightbulb moment.... I foolishly thought you were serious about discussing the Irish National Anthem because people couldn't understand it ....and there you suddenly show your petticoat. Should Flower of Scotland also not be used (by Scotland) because it also offends your pro Brit sensibilities? (it is in English though..)

And nicest tunes?? Are you completely tone deaf? It sounds like a funeral march.

Have you bothered to read ALL of the verses to GSTQ by the way?

MajorMax

sureitsgrand wrote: »

Google Billy Leonard.

Interesting man.

Jesus, talk about a man who can't make his mind up

Former member of
1. Orange order
2. RUC
3. Free Presbyterian church
4. SDLP
5. Sinn Fein
6. Former MLA

Has he ever finished something he started?

Iwasfrozen

AEDIC wrote: »

Ahhh lightbulb moment.... I foolishly thought you were serious about discussing the Irish National Anthem because people couldn't understand it ....and there you suddenly show your petticoat. Should Flower of Scotland also not be used (by Scotland) because it also offends your pro Brit sensibilities? (it is in English though..)

What? Scotland can sing what they want as far as I'm concerned.

AEDIC wrote: »

And nicest tunes?? Are you completely tone deaf? It sounds like a funeral march.

No I'm not and yes it has a much nicer tune then our own. I hope I don't come across to you as pro brit for saying so. I love the Marseillaise most of all but I wouldn't call myself pro french. Well not in the way you mean anyway.

AEDIC wrote: »

Have you bothered to read ALL of the verses to GSTQ by the way?

No why would I?

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

Irelands Call can be sung with gusto by each and every Irish man woman and child, be they Nationalist or Unionist every Irish person can sing Irelands Call knowing that nobody is going to be upset or annoyed, and that is its great strength as a rousing anthem for Ireland as a whole.

Amhran na Bhfiann on the other hand just cannot be sung by Unioinists, as it goes totally against the grain (to put it mildly), and God knows its difficult enough for many non unionists to get past the 1st couple of lines anyway, before mumbling along to the tune without really knowing many of the words . . .

I think we all are fully aware of the particular tune you prefer to hum at this stage.

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No song has history when it's first written. I disagree totally that a new anthem can't have value or meaning. In fact writing a new one would give us a chance to include the values and meaning of modern irish society. And not song proud militaristic anti-brit bragging from arguably the most militarily weak country in the EU.

A few brave citizens of the 'most militarily weak country in the EU' forced the British out of the south and established a democratic republic and a further few got them around the table to negotiate a settlement in the north.
Some soldiers are we!

AEDIC

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No why would I?

I just found it odd that you could chide the 'proud millitaristic' lyrics of Amhrán na bhFiann yet offer a preference for gstq and even more so the Marsielles...

Made me wonder if you have actually seen the full versions of the 'proud millitaristic' anthems you seem to prefer.

Which by the way all seems to have moved immesurably from your original objection to the language the Irish National Anthem is sung in.

Happyman42

Nodin wrote: »

I think we all are fully aware of the particular tune you prefer to hum at this stage.

Not to mention the fact that Unionists can't sing 'Ireland's Call' either, because they only answered 'Britian's Call In Relation To Ireland'.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What people should and do are not aways the same. Realistically most irish people can't sing their own anthem. This is a problem and we should look for solutions to this problem. The cheapest being to write a new anthem in english. Or hell even use the soldier's song in it's original language. That would work as a compromise.


Oh it would be voted on. As part of a larger referendum to adopt the new constitution. But referendum's are expensive and it wouldn't be feasible to hold one on the anthem alone. And seriously? Going la la la la laaa, la la la la la eeeireannn, is not singing the national anthem.

Where are you getting this from? For the third time I ask what are you basing your assertion that most Irish people dont know the national anthem on? It would seem that you dont know it. Either produce your evidence to back up your claim or stop projecting your personal failings onto an entire nation.

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

I think we all are fully aware of the particular tune you prefer to hum at this stage.

Yep, That I'd be Irelands Call.

RandomName2

Stinicker wrote: »

They are Irish whether they like it or not and they cannot escape this as they live in Ireland. Northern Ireland is an artificial commodity created by the partition of the island. It is a political oddity.

Reminds me of Germans in the 1930s laughing at the concept of Czechoslovakian sovereignty.

"You are British whether you like it or not and cannot escape this as you live in the British Isles. The republic of Ireland is an artifical commodity created by the partition of the island. It is a political oddity"

How would it sound from the other side?

Have a bit of respect for our neghbours, man. There are many there that value their home rule state, what right have we to treat it as if it's nothing, as if we have natural dominion over that country?

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

A few brave citizens of the 'most militarily weak country in the EU' forced the British out of the south and established a democratic republic

What's Cyprus got to do with the conversation?

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What's Cyprus got to do with the conversation?

You may ask IwasFrozen about that, the quoted bit was how they referred to Ireland.

Iwasfrozen

Happyman42 wrote: »

A few brave citizens of the 'most militarily weak country in the EU' forced the British out of the south and established a democratic republic and a further few got them around the table to negotiate a settlement in the north.
Some soldiers are we!

I said arguably. Don't paraphrase. All that you have listed above was achieved through popular revolt and guerrilla tactics. Not conventional warfare. No doubt some of the rebels were brave, to the point of stupidity even. But terror tactics is not something to boast about.

AEDIC wrote:

I just found it odd that you could chide the 'proud millitaristic' lyrics of Amhrán na bhFiann yet offer a preference for gstq and even more so the Marsielles...

Made me wonder if you have actually seen the full versions of the 'proud millitaristic' anthems you seem to prefer.

Which by the way all seems to have moved immesurably from your original objection to the language the Irish National Anthem is sung in.

I like the tune of Marsielles. I never mentioned it's lyrics.

Crooked Jack wrote:

Where are you getting this from? For the third time I ask what are you basing your assertion that most Irish people dont know the national anthem on? It would seem that you dont know it. Either produce your evidence to back up your claim or stop projecting your personal failings onto an entire nation.

Do you disagree that having an anthem in english would make it more accessible?

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I said arguably. Don't paraphrase. All that you have listed above was achieved through popular revolt and guerrilla tactics. Not conventional warfare. No doubt some of the rebels were brave, to the point of stupidity even. But terror tactics is not something to boast about.

Arguably, our ways are more effective than 'conventional warfare'. The end justified the means.

Iwasfrozen

Happyman42 wrote: »

Arguably, our ways are more effective than 'conventional warfare'. The end justified the means.

Arguably. But it's not something to be proud of.

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Arguably. But it's not something to be proud of.

It's not something you are proud of...arguably.

Iwasfrozen

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's not something you are proud of...arguably.

Which isn't arguable.

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Which isn't arguable.

In future, speak for yourself then...or you'll get into arguments.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Happyman42 wrote: »

A few brave citizens of the 'most militarily weak country in the EU' forced the British out of the south and established a democratic republic and a further few got them around the table to negotiate a settlement in the north.
Some soldiers are we!

I said arguably. Don't paraphrase. All that you have listed above was achieved through popular revolt and guerrilla tactics. Not conventional warfare. No doubt some of the rebels were brave, to the point of stupidity even. But terror tactics is not something to boast about.

AEDIC wrote:

I just found it odd that you could chide the 'proud millitaristic' lyrics of Amhrán na bhFiann yet offer a preference for gstq and even more so the Marsielles...

Made me wonder if you have actually seen the full versions of the 'proud millitaristic' anthems you seem to prefer.

Which by the way all seems to have moved immesurably from your original objection to the language the Irish National Anthem is sung in.

I like the tune of Marsielles. I never mentioned it's lyrics.

Crooked Jack wrote:

Where are you getting this from? For the third time I ask what are you basing your assertion that most Irish people dont know the national anthem on? It would seem that you dont know it. Either produce your evidence to back up your claim or stop projecting your personal failings onto an entire nation.

Do you disagree that having an anthem in english would make it more accessible?

Yes i disagree. completely. i dont speak fluent irish yet i still had the ability to learn it. do you agree that you havent backed up your earlier statements because they are in fact codswallop that you lifted off the top of your head

Frogeye

p.oconnor wrote: »

I never really liked Ireland's call until "that" match in Croke Park against England, there was many a tear shed that day for both Irish anthems.

Slightly off topic but anyone else notice the ref singing along to Irelands call at 3.46?

p.oconnor

Frogeye wrote: »

Slightly off topic but anyone else notice the ref singing along to Irelands call at 3.46?

I think he was an Irish official, kind of like a 4th official in soccer who just deals with substitutions, can't influence the result anyway.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Yes i disagree. completely. i dont speak fluent irish yet i still had the ability to learn it. do you agree that you havent backed up your earlier statements because they are in fact codswallop that you lifted off the top of your head

You had the ability to learn it yes but the fact is you didn't. Nor did most people. Your irrational disdain of the english language is telling. It's amazing you don't move to connemara and learn irish. :rolleyes:

The arguement is basically divided into four parts:

Irish people by and large cannot speak irish. Yes they can learn and it would be be nice if they would but realistically they won't.

Because of this their anthem isn't accessible to them. Or at least less accessible then it would be in English.

This is a problem.

The cheapest solution is to use the old anthem in it's original English form or use this opportunity to write a totally new one that reflects modern Irish society. Much cheaper then teaching people irish en masse.

Now while I really don't see how you can argue with this I'm sure you'll still find a way.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You had the ability to learn it yes but the fact is you didn't. Nor did most people. Your irrational disdain of the english language is telling. It's amazing you don't move to connemara and learn irish. :rolleyes:

The arguement is basically divided into four parts:

Irish people by and large cannot speak irish. Yes they can learn and it would be be nice if they would but realistically they won't.

Because of this their anthem isn't accessible to them. Or at least less accessible then it would be in English.

This is a problem.

The cheapest solution is to use the old anthem in it's original English form or use this opportunity to write a totally new one that reflects modern Irish society. Much cheaper then teaching people irish en masse.

Now while I really don't see how you can argue with this I'm sure you'll still find a way.

This is getting tiresome, you have still not produced any evidence for your claim that most people dont know the anthem and now you're resorting to silly comments like your Connemara jibe.
You do not need to be fluent to know and understand the anthem.
The cheapest solution is to leave it as it is because this simply is not a problem.
The anthem is taught in schools, played at GAA matches and international sporting events and a dozen other everyday everyday events. Te vast majority of people will know the anthem, those who do not are the type who would not bother to learn it regardless of what language it's in.
If you had spent the time looking over it that you've spent arguing with me you'd have learned it by now and seen how obtuse you're being.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

This is getting tiresome, you have still not produced any evidence for your claim that most people dont know the anthem and now you're resorting to silly comments like your Connemara jibe.
You do not need to be fluent to know and understand the anthem.
The cheapest solution is to leave it as it is because this simply is not a problem.
The anthem is taught in schools, played at GAA matches and international sporting events and a dozen other everyday everyday events. Te vast majority of people will know the anthem, those who do not are the type who would not bother to learn it regardless of what language it's in.
If you had spent the time looking over it that you've spent arguing with me you'd have learned it by now and seen how obtuse you're being.

How can I produce evidence that doesn't exist? I can no more provide evidence for my position then you can for yours. Even asking for evidence when you no none such exists is an attempt to derail the topic because you have no points to argue. The best we can do with the lack of such evidence is to reason out the argument with our common sense. No you do not need to be fluent to understand the Soldier's song but you do need to have a firm grasp on it.

The problem we have is that most people do not understand the language of the song supposed to represent them. No matter how much you say they should the reality is they don't. I've proposed that the cheapest solution to this problem would be to just sing the soldier's song in english but the words of this song are not indicative of modern irish society and this becomes clear upon reading the words in their original language. A better solution would be to simply write a totally new anthem in english. One that represents the diversity of modern irish society without conjuring images of war and anti british sentimentality.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How can I produce evidence that doesn't exist? I can no more provide evidence for my position then you can for yours. Even asking for evidence when you no none such exists is an attempt to derail the topic because you have no points to argue. The best we can do with the lack of such evidence is to reason out the argument with our common sense. No you do not need to be fluent to understand the Soldier's song but you do need to have a firm grasp on it.

The problem we have is that most people do not understand the language of the song supposed to represent them. No matter how much you say they should the reality is they don't. I've proposed that the cheapest solution to this problem would be to just sing the soldier's song in english but the words of this song are not indicative of modern irish society and this becomes clear upon reading the words in their original language. A better solution would be to simply write a totally new anthem in english. One that represents the diversity of modern irish society without conjuring images of war and anti british sentimentality.

Perhaps then you should stop stating it like it's some sort of indisputable fact.
Your entire argument is based upon this notion you have that nobody knows the national anthem. You can back that claim up in no way whatsoever yet you continue to repeat it ad nauseam.
And where, oh where, is the anti-british sentiment in Amhrán na bhFiann?

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Perhaps then you should stop stating it like it's some sort of indisputable fact.
Your entire argument is based upon this notion you have that nobody knows the national anthem. You can back that claim up in no way whatsoever yet you continue to repeat it ad nauseam.

And yours is based of the fact that they do. Like I've said in the last post, though you didn't bother highlighting that bit.

Iwasfrozen wrote:

I can no more provide evidence for my position then you can for yours. Even asking for evidence when you know none such exists is an attempt to derail the topic because you have no points to argue. The best we can do with the lack of such evidence is to reason out the argument with our common sense. No you do not need to be fluent to understand the Soldier's song but you do need to have a firm grasp on it.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

And where, oh where, is the anti-british sentiment in Amhrán na bhFiann?

Everywhere. Though none so obvious as the final verse.

Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale!
The long watched day is breaking
The serried ranks of Inisfail
Shall set the Tyrant quaking
Our camp fires now are burning low
See in the east a silv'ry glow
Out yonder waits the Saxon foe
So chant a soldier's song

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And yours is based of the fact that they do. Like I've said in the last post, though you didn't bother highlighting that bit.

I presented the fact that it is taught in schools and played at all major sporting events involving Ireland, not to mention every GAA match as evidence that most people would have at least picked up the anthem that way had they not gone to the bother of actively learning it.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Everywhere. Though none so obvious as the final verse.

That is not the national anthem. Amhrán na bhFiann doesn't have any verses.
This is your national anthem in its entirety. Kindly point out the "anti-British sentiment."

Sinne Fianna Fáil
A tá fé gheall ag Éirinn,
buion dár slua
Thar toinn do ráinig chugainn,
Fé mhóid bheith saor.
Sean tír ár sinsir feasta
Ní fhagfar fé'n tiorán ná fé'n tráil
Anocht a théam sa bhearna bhaoil,
Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil
Le guna screach fé lámhach na bpiléar
Seo libh canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann.

translated

Soldiers are we
whose lives are pledged to Ireland;
Some have come
from a land beyond the wave.
Sworn to be free,
No more our ancient sire land
Shall shelter the despot or the slave.
Tonight we man the gap of danger
In Erin's cause, come woe or weal
'Mid cannons' roar and rifles peal,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I presented the fact that it is taught in schools and played at all major sporting events involving Ireland, not to mention every GAA match as evidence that most people would have at least picked up the anthem that way had they not gone to the bother of actively learning it.

It's taught in schools? News to me. I never learned it. And do you honestly think people learn an other language through sporting events? I'll answer for you, no. They don't. What we need is a new anthem, without the language barriers. One that can be easily understood by all people with a clear yet simple representation for modern irish multi cultural society.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

That is not the national anthem. Amhrán na bhFiann doesn't have any verses.
This is your national anthem in its entirety. Kindly point out the "anti-British sentiment.

Ah here Crooked Jack why cut it down? You remove all the good bits. Pointing out that only the chorus is the actual anthem is a bit anal. Do you agree that the full song is anti British?

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's taught in schools? News to me. I never learned it. And do you honestly think people learn an other language through sporting events? I'll answer for you, no. They don't. What we need is a new anthem, without the language barriers. One that can be easily understood by all people with a clear yet simple representation for modern irish multi cultural society.

You were the one who argued earlier that most people pick up their national anthem through gradual absorption. Not satisfied with arguing with me you're now arguing with yourself.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ah here Crooked Jack why cut it down? You remove all the good bits. Pointing out that only the chorus is the actual anthem is a bit anal. Do you agree that the full song is anti British?

I didnt cut it down, that's what it is. Pointing out that the chorus is the anthem is factual, not anal. The Irish national anthem is not anti anything, it's pro-Ireland. There are lots of anti-British songs out there (they have a habit of inspiring those feelings in people) Amhrán na bhFiann is not one of them.

Jimoslimos

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Everywhere. Though none so obvious as the final verse.

And there have been anti-Scottish (a constituent country of the UK) sentiments expressed in some versions of GSTQ.

Lord grant that Marshal Wade

May by thy mighty aid

Victory bring.

May he sedition hush,

And like a torrent rush,

Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the Queen!