Almost 40,000 emigrating each year

MakeEmLaugh

From today's Irish Independent:

Almost 40,000 people may be leaving the country each year in the face of bleak employment prospects, new statistics show.

Grim unemployment figures would be even worse if it was not for the high emigration rate, analysts said yesterday.

New figures from the Central Statistics Office show fewer people are working, but also reveal that the labour force -- the total number of people available to work -- is down almost 30,000 in the past year.

This shows that thousands are leaving the country, according to Davy economist Conall Mac Coille.

"The 29,500 fall in the labour force in the year to Q2 indicates that emigration could be running close to 40,000 per annum, given the expected natural increase (in the workforce)."

Alan McQuaid, economist with Merrion Capital, also said it appeared emigration was a factor in preventing the unemployment figures from getting even worse.

"Many young Irish people are either staying on in education or moving abroad to avail of significant job opportunities," he said.

Young people are finding it twice as hard as older ones to get jobs, with nearly a third of those aged 20 to 24 out of work.

In total, the number of people working in Ireland fell by 33,400 in 12 months, down to 1.78 million in June this year.

Some would have joined the ranks of the unemployed while others may have emigrated or returned to education.

An extra 4,000 people are officially described as unemployed, nudging the unemployment rate up slightly to 14.8pc or 308,500 people.

Employment fell in most sectors of the economy with administration, finance and construction the hardest hit.

However, the hotel and restaurant sector took on an extra 6,300 workers over the past year, the Quarterly National Household Survey shows.

This showed the Government's 9pc VAT cut in this area was working, said Tourism Minister Leo Varadkar.

The public sector shed more jobs than the private sector with a 6.3pc decline in employee levels compared to 0.3pc in private companies over the 12 months.

Over the past three years the number of private sector employees has fallen by 77,500 while public sector employment has dropped by 36,800.

- Aideen Sheehan Consumer Correspondent

I would curious to know how many of the 40,000 emigrating are Irish nationals, and how many of them are non-Irish nationals.

I do know that for the year ending April 2010 only 27,700 of the 65,300 leaving Ireland were actual Irish-born people.

Tombi!

Wouldn't really matter, though would it? Even they're not Irish-born they still have the cop on to use their money to feck off to a better place to work. Or at least have the money anyhow.

Ah sure not to worry, the strategy of "have the youth educated here, leave for work experience and then come back with experience to do an internship for 50 euro extra a week" seems to be working quite well.

NIMAN

How many emigrated during the boom? Irish have always emigrated.

They say 40,000 each year, but maybe 20,000 would have emigrated anyway, recession or not.

nachocheese

Without identifying how many went home to their countries of origin (or left for somewhere new) and how many are off on 1 or 2 year working holiday visas, the statistic is pretty worthless.

People came for the boom, it's gone and now many are too. There isn't really any surprise there.

davet82

This showed the Government's 9pc VAT cut in this area was working, said Tourism Minister Leo Varadkar.

found that bit interesting... they raise the VAT on everything else which would have the oppisite effect on jobs...

fcuking knob heads :rolleyes:

seamus

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

I do know that for the year ending April 2010 only 27,700 of the 65,300 leaving Ireland were actual Irish-born people.

40,000 Irish nationals emigrated in the year to April 2011. I don't care about Irish-born; if you're a citizen, then you're Irish.

The actual emigration figure that year was 76,400. Of that, only 8,200 were people from outside the EU - i.e. people who required visas to work.

If we go by last year's figures where we had a net migration of -34,000 (i.e the balance of immigrants/emigrants had 34,000 people leave the country) of which 23,000 were Irish, then a net migration of -40,000 this year would be an 18% increase, and roughly two-thirds of that 40,000 (26,667) will be Irish nationals.

Worth noting that even with a net loss in migration, the population is still rising due to our birthrate. We brought in a lot of people during the boom, so losing people through emigration isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a release valve for what was an unsustainable population level given the size of our economy.

How many emigrated during the boom? Irish have always emigrated.

They say 40,000 each year, but maybe 20,000 would have emigrated anyway, recession or not.

I was thinking the same as you, but in actual fact about 15,000 Irish emigrated each year during the boom, and about 18,000 came home.
Last year, 40,000 Irish people emigrated and 17,000 came home. So while the "coming home" figures are are good sign (I suspect most of these are people who went travelling), the emigrations are up by about 170%.

Slurryface

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

From today's Irish Independent:



I would curious to know how many of the 40,000 emigrating are Irish nationals, and how many of them are non-Irish nationals.

I do know that for the year ending April 2010 only 27,700 of the 65,300 leaving Ireland were actual Irish-born people.

Who cares what their place of birth is? That should make no difference at all.

mikom

Edna's bringing them all back for the "Gathering".
Then we are all going to climb Croagh Patrick together.

davet82

Slurryface wrote: »

Who cares what their place of birth is? That should make no difference at all.

dead right. just because somebody isn't born here but you educate and invest in them to fcuk home with their skills because they can't get a job isn't a good thing imo

Tombi!

davet82 wrote: »

dead right. just because somebody isn't born here but you educate and invest in them to fcuk home with their skills because they can't get a job isn't a good thing imo

Isn't Ireland doing something like it? You get your education, get told you need to get experience so you go work in your local Pennys for a few months, save money, leave and get experience in an actual job and come back and get a job at entry level with your several years experience.

gobnaitolunacy

mikom wrote: »

Edna's bringing them all back for the "Gathering".
Then we are all going to climb Croagh Patrick together.

And throw Enda off it....

keelanj69

mikom wrote: »

Edna's bringing them all back for the "Gathering".
Then we are all going to climb Croagh Patrick together.

Ah heyor, leave it out.

MakeEmLaugh

Slurryface wrote: »

Who cares what their place of birth is? That should make no difference at all.

If you are an economic migrant who moved here in your twenties from another, less prosperous country, with the intention of saving money before returning home, then yes, I do believe a distinction should be made between you and an Irish person who was born, raised and educated here, who never intended on emigrating from their friends and family.

davet82

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Isn't Ireland doing something like it? You get your education, get told you need to get experience so you go work in your local Pennys for a few months, save money, leave and get experience in an actual job and come back and get a job at entry level with your several years experience.

i wouldn't hold my breath for that job in seven years either the way things look at the moment! :rolleyes:

Tombi!

davet82 wrote: »

i wouldn't hold my breath for that job in seven years either the way things look at the moment! :rolleyes:

Ah one day. One day I'll get those 15 years experience to get that shelf-stacking job in Tesco...

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

If you are an economic migrant who moved here in your twenties from another, less prosperous country, with the intention of saving money before returning home, then yes, I do believe a distinction should be made between you and an Irish person who was born, raised and educated here, who never intended on emigrating from their friends and family.

Why? They're still spending money here. What about people who are Irish and plan to leave, are they to be treated differently?

smurgen

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Ah one day. One day I'll get those 15 years experience to get that shelf-stacking job in Tesco...



Why? They're still spending money here. What about people who are Irish and plan to leave, are they to be treated differently?

yes! we need to look after our own just like every other country in the world put a priority over their own. Don't get me wrong immigrants have their part to play in our country and those that paid taxes etc should receve social welfare and all the protection that an irish citizen should have but I do think that an Irish person should be held with higher importance than an immigrant.

Tombi!

smurgen wrote: »

yes! we need to look after our own just like every other country in the world put a priority over their own. Don't get me wrong immigrants have their part to play in our country and those that paid taxes etc should receve social welfare and all the protection that an irish citizen should have but I do think that an Irish person should be held with higher importance than an immigrant.

All Irish people? Or just the ones that work hard?
Because I can tell you now, I'd rather have someone from another country that speaks little English but works hard working with me than some lazy fecker from Ireland that skives off at every chance.

Lord TSC

I used to argue against emigration. I've had some big rows with people on this very board about hwo it's the cowardly and easy way out.

Now though....honestly, if I wasn't so close to my brother and mother, I'd have ran so very quickly, so very far away.

MakeEmLaugh

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Why? They're still spending money here. What about people who are Irish and plan to leave, are they to be treated differently?

I did not say that non-Irish people should be treated differently. I said I believed a distinction should be made between those people and Irish citizens. If you become an Irish citizen through naturalisation, then you are Irish.

However, most people who move here from other countries do not become Irish citizens. They maintain the citizenship of their country of birth.

Tombi!

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

I did not say that non-Irish people should be treated differently. I said I believed a distinction should be made between those people and Irish citizens. If you become an Irish citizen through naturalisation, then you are Irish.

However, most people who move here from other countries do not become Irish citizens. They maintain the citizenship of their country of birth.

Well I was hoping it was that because what's the point in saying "sorry, you refuse to become Irish so you aren't being treated as positively"?

Just because someone isn't Irish doesn't mean that can't be useful to Ireland.

bluecode

This seems to be going off on a tangent, Irish, non Irish who cares. The reality is that it's back to normal. People look around and see the alternatives are to sit here on the dole or take any job no matter how bad the pay or leave the country and take your chances in a country that actually values hard work and good qualifications.

If there never was the safety valve of emigration. This country would be heading for a revolution.

Why do we never learn?

smurgen

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

All Irish people? Or just the ones that work hard?
Because I can tell you now, I'd rather have someone from another country that speaks little English but works hard working with me than some lazy fecker from Ireland that skives off at every chance.

God no! if it's a job application situation for example I believe the Irish person should recieve preference over the immigrant if they have the same or better education and experience. If the immigrant has better experince/education then obviosly they should get it.

The point i'm trying to make is that every country looks after their own and I don't think Ireland should be any different.

Gone Drinking

I've got a decent job in Ireland. If I couldn't get a job in Ireland, I'd try set up my own company, if that wasn't viable I'd be outta here, a long with everyone else.

What's the big deal?

Tombi!

We do, though. Far as I know if you're an immigrant you need to be here for a year and worked for that year to get dole?

But in either case, you can't blame employers for hiring non-Irish if they feel the non-Irish will work better based on experience.

Unless you meant government wise (as in helping Ireland first) then yes, I agree 100% but Ireland's government is well, horrible.

Piliger

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

From today's Irish Independent:

These numbers are BS. Extrapolations and guesswork.