New wireless alarm for self monitoring

Carbon Fibre

Hi,

First of all great security forum.
After reading various posts within this forum I’ve finally taken the plunge to ask a question, so as a newbie please forgive me if I’ve posted this in the wrong area. I’m in the UK and looking for some opinions / advice on wireless alarm systems.

I’ve used the Visonic Powermax + in a previous house and it provided great service and useful self monitoring. I’ve now moved and require
a new totally wireless alarm to replace the failing hardwired Scantronics.

Possibly asking for the moon on a stick here but would like the following:
Wireless, self monitored, Broadband/IP access, GSM backup, X10 option, the ability to zone off the downstairs at night with remote keypad up stairs,
ability to extend out to cover out-buildings and possibly external of the house, ability be alert me (call, mail, SMS) not alarm if someone is walking up the drive or walking around the out-buildings. Ability to add IP cameras to monitor remotely if alerts or alarm triggered. I’m looking to self install and self monitor, possibly a big wish list but thought I’d ask.

I’ve looked at Visonic’s Powermax Pro and also Powermaster/Power G although the Powermaster/Power G looks only to be a professional monitored system and not really self monitored (is this correct?), although the wireless range and encryption are better than the Pro however there’s currently no Broadband/IP option release dates for the Powermaster/PowerG as yet but does have GSM currently.
I’ve also looked at the Siemens SPC range and would be interesting on your thoughts on this however having looked around in the UK I’m struggling to find a supplier for the Siemens but have plenty of options for Visonic.

I'm open to suggestions on other systems and welcome your thoughts on those I've listed above.

Many thanks

KoolKid

The Siemens would appear to be the only one that ticks all the box's for you.
It has all the flexibility you require. Its X10 controls are great. You can when use cause and effect from any alarm input or output to control devices. It has full control over IP.
I will check about availability in the UK and get you an email contact.

tleech32

Hi,

I believe HKC are now distributing in the uk know take a look at the 10/70 panel it will do all the things you are asking for.

KoolKid

tleech32 wrote: »

Hi,

I believe HKC are now distributing in the uk know take a look at the 10/70 panel it will do all the things you are asking for.

Is the 10/70 now IP accessible , Handling IP cameras and X10 ?

tleech32

KoolKid wrote: »

tleech32 wrote: »

Hi,

I believe HKC are now distributing in the uk know take a look at the 10/70 panel it will do all the things you are asking for.

Is the 10/70 now IP accessible , Handling IP cameras and X10 ?

My apologies did not read the post in full 10/70 is not ip accessible what are you looking to use x10 for.

KoolKid

tleech32 wrote: »

My apologies did not read the post in full 10/70 is not ip accessible what are you looking to use x10 for.

Its what the OP asked about...

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

Wireless, self monitored, Broadband/IP access, GSM backup, X10 option, the ability to zone off the downstairs at night with remote keypad up stairs

Presumably to switch & control mains devices from the alarm system. Something Siemens systems do very well.;)

tleech32

KoolKid wrote: »

tleech32 wrote: »

My apologies did not read the post in full 10/70 is not ip accessible what are you looking to use x10 for.

Its what the OP asked about...

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

Wireless, self monitored, Broadband/IP access, GSM backup, X10 option, the ability to zone off the downstairs at night with remote keypad up stairs

Presumably to switch & control mains devices from the alarm system. Something Siemens systems do very well.;)

Sorry koolkid I tought you were the moderator not the op?????

tleech32

tleech32 wrote: »

KoolKid wrote: »

tleech32 wrote: »

My apologies did not read the post in full 10/70 is not ip accessible what are you looking to use x10 for.

Its what the OP asked about...

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

Wireless, self monitored, Broadband/IP access, GSM backup, X10 option, the ability to zone off the downstairs at night with remote keypad up stairs

Presumably to switch & control mains devices from the alarm system. Something Siemens systems do very well.;)

Sorry koolkid I tought you were the moderator not the op?????

Ps koolkid I've read a lot of your other posts and your obnoxious quotes help nobody.

KoolKid

And that attitude gets you an infraction.
Play nice or leave the playground.

belcampprisoner

Just replace hard wired control panel with another one
Mark your wires first

tleech32

KoolKid wrote: »

And that attitude gets you an infraction.
Play nice or leave the playground.

You do know being a moderator is a privilege not a luxury.........

KoolKid

Dealing with attitude like yours certainly is not a luxury.
The chance to help people is the privilege I enjoy here.
Posting is also a privilege. One that can be removed if you wish.
Dragging threads off topic questioning & commenting on moderator decisions is also against the forum charter. If you wish to discuss anything in a civil manner Ill be happy to do so via PM.

Thunderbird2

I'd wait for HKCs IP system
Due shortly .
Panels very easy to setup
Easy to arm with quick codes so there's no need to go through menus

KoolKid

Afaik HKC don't even have a release date for an IP panel. So it could be a while.
I have said some input from HKC would be nice, but no information is forthcoming.
Again hopefully Stephen will clarify.
Any panel with IP access is going to be easy to set up. Also all panels will have quick keys and jobs etc for easy and quick operation.
Again I'd ask for some input front HKC.

Carbon Fibre

Hi CoolKid, Thunderbird2

Many thanks for your prompt responses and sorry for not responding sooner, it’s been one of those weeks!

Initially I had looked into the Siemens and thought that this would be the system for me as from what I could find out from the web it looked to cover my needs
for now and future, my only issue was trying to source one for self installation from within the UK although I might consider shipping one in from IE if I have no luck
in the UK!
I’m looking at installing on full wireless as the existing hardwired systems wiring is very messy and not something I have the time to bell out etc plus due to the age of the house a lot of the wiring to the window shock sensors of which there are currently 14 run over the surface from the room PIR’s to the window (possibly due to concert lintels!) also I’ve been happy with a full wireless system in a previous house (Visonic Powermax +) and really don’t want to see cables.

Can you confirm if the Siemens supports a wireless bell box as from what I can make out it’s only on wired but I’m happy to use the existing bell wire to support the Siemens system, I believe keypads are possibly wired as well, again could possibly live with this as I intend to place the keypad and main box close together (is this a good idea?) and use a wireless key fob for arming and disarming.

I’d like to replace all of the existing PIR’s with new wireless PIR’s and also all of the window shock sensors with wireless shock sensors, have seen references to Siemens wireless PIR’s but not Siemens wireless shock sensors to cover the windows any thoughts on options to cover this would be great, is there any way to successfully support other manufactures sensors on the Siemens system?

Ref X10 requirements I’d like to be able to switch on lights remotely as required and possibly support electric gates in the distant future and possibly more if as you
say “Its X10 controls are great. You can then use cause and effect from any alarm input or output to control devices”

If I do go down the Siemens route what model would you recommend I look at for the IP, GSM and X10 support as there looks to be a good choice but don’t want to go overkill on something that’s over spec’d capacity wise. House is detached, four bedrooms, four down stairs rooms plus conservatory and utility room. Also I’d like to cover my garage and workshop which is approximately 60 metres from the house but could possibly cover this with a dedicated alarm if the range on the Siemens won’t support that distance?

I’m happy to look at the HKC system if it’s available with IP/Broadband and will support GSM as a backup. How would you rate the Visonic Powermax Pro against the Siemens and the HKC systems?

Thanks once again for your valued input.


Belcampprisoner,
Keeping the hardwired system is not an option I’m interested in as I want to move to full wireless. Thanks for your input though.

KoolKid

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

Hi CoolKid, Thunderbird2

I might consider shipping one in from IE if I have no luck
in the UK!

That should not be too difficult.

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

Can you confirm if the Siemens supports a wireless bell box as from what I can make out it’s only on wired but I’m happy to use the existing bell wire to support the Siemens system, I believe keypads are possibly wired as well, again could possibly live with this as I intend to place the keypad and main box close together (is this a good idea?) and use a wireless key fob for arming and disarming.

Bells & keypads are wired. Generally existing wiring to the bells would be fine.
I also prefer this & generally use wired bells on the Visonic as well.
Likewise with one single keypad & the use of fobs all is good.

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

I’d like to replace all of the existing PIR’s with new wireless PIR’s and also all of the window shock sensors with wireless shock sensors, have seen references to Siemens wireless PIR’s but not Siemens wireless shock sensors to cover the windows any thoughts on options to cover this would be great, is there any way to successfully support other manufactures sensors on the Siemens system?

You can use the original Europlex/Visonic receiver to use Visonic Inertia contacts on the Siemens systems.

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

Ref X10 requirements I’d like to be able to switch on lights remotely as required and possibly support electric gates in the distant future and possibly more if as you
say “Its X10 controls are great. You can then use cause and effect from any alarm input or output to control devices”

This is something Siemens have really mastered with the use of cause & effect ,calendars & mapping gates

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

If I do go down the Siemens route what model would you recommend I look at for the IP, GSM and X10 support as there looks to be a good choice but don’t want to go overkill on something that’s over spec’d capacity wise. House is detached, four bedrooms, four down stairs rooms plus conservatory and utility room. Also I’d like to cover my garage and workshop which is approximately 60 metres from the house but could possibly cover this with a dedicated alarm if the range on the Siemens won’t support that distance?

The SPC 4320 goes upto 32 zones , The Next one up the 5320 goes to 128

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

I’m happy to look at the HKC system if it’s available with IP/Broadband and will support GSM as a backup. How would you rate the Visonic Powermax Pro against the Siemens and the HKC systems?

As I said HKC don't seem to have much to say on the subject. With their previous history of late launches, no date would indicate to me to be a good way off yet. We also have no idea of what sort of interface we are looking at.
If we compare Smartlink to SPCPro you can clearly see the differences.
One note re X10 . :
Siemens are developing their own protocol to replace X10 . At some future software upgrade this will replace X10 on the Siemens panels. This will be an announced & you will have the option to upgrade or not.

See these threads for more comparisons.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056676131
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056676093

Hope this helps.;)

Thunderbird2

If your going the wireless route go for the 2-way wireless detectors :-)

Carbon Fibre

Thanks once again for the responses.

With regards to wireless range of the Siemens do you think it will cover my garage and out-buildings approximately 60 metre from where the main alarm panel will be, if not is it possible to add range extenders?

Ref your previous response
“You can use the original Europlex/Visonic receiver to use Visonic Inertia contacts on the Siemens systems”

Please can you clarify this as I don’t currently have any Europlex/Visonic receivers, is this something that would allow the use of other manufacture
Inertia contacts etc, if so please can you supply details for me research and add to my shopping list.

As it looks like the HKC alarm can’t currently provide the IP requirements I’m after my only other thought as a comparison on spec and pricing would be a Visonic Prowermax Pro, do you have any experience of these alarms and if so what are your thoughts, pros and cons etc?

I’d like to get a shopping list together to try and price up the Siemens SPC 4320 solution and compare it with something like the Visonic Prowermax Pro which I believe can offer IP, GSM and X10.

So far I’ve got the following on the shopping list but looking for any recommendation to fill in the gaps.

1 x Siemens SPC 4320 or SPC 5320 alarm panel (with IP)

1 x SPCN310 GSM modem module

2 x Siemens SPCK422 – Keypad with wireless module (one for upstairs to be used to arm at night)

4 x Siemens IMKW6-10 wireless contact

x Wireless PIR’s Siemens or other manufactures which are compatible, please recommend make and model.

x Wireless External PIR’s which are compatible, please recommend make and model.

x Wireless Pet tolerant PIR’s Siemens or other manufactures which are compatible, please recommend make and model.

x Wireless Inertia contacts, please recommend make and model.

x Receivers for Inertia contacts, please recommend make and model

2 x Siemens IOPW6-11 wireless smoke detectors

3 x Siemens IRCW6-11 Remote control fob

1 x Bell box, and matching dummy please recommend a suitable make and model.

x IP cameras suitable for use with SPC alarm, please recommend a suitable make and model.

Any recommendations for suppliers within the UK and Ireland if I’m unable to find a UK supplier would be greatly appreciated.


Does anyone have any experience of using the Siemens SPCanywhere App / Web portal. Will I be able to register my Siemens alarm and make full use as
a self installer and self monitor user, are there any related chargers for using this environment?


I’d like to source the user manual and installation manual for the SPC alarm so will request that help via the correct post.

Many thanks.

KoolKid

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

With regards to wireless range of the Siemens do you think it will cover my garage and out-buildings approximately 60 metre from where the main alarm panel will be, if not is it possible to add range extenders?

It would not cover 60m . Range can be extended via wireless gateways or with receivers fitted into remote keypad.

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

Ref your previous response “You can use the original Europlex/Visonic receiver to use Visonic Inertia contacts on the Siemens systems”
Please can you clarify this as I don’t currently have any Europlex/Visonic receivers, is this something that would allow the use of other manufacture
Inertia contacts etc, if so please can you supply details for me research and add to my shopping list.

Previousally when Siemens were Europlex they used Visonic wireless devices.
You can still get these Visonic receivers & fit them to an SPC panel or compatible keypad. By changing the licenc key (Provided by Siemens)
You can use Visonic wireless devices on an SPC panel.

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

As it looks like the HKC alarm can’t currently provide the IP requirements I’m after my only other thought as a comparison on spec and pricing would be a Visonic Prowermax Pro, do you have any experience of these alarms and if so what are your thoughts, pros and cons etc?

The Powermax pro has much more limited IP functions compared to Siemens.

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

I’d like to get a shopping list together to try and price up the Siemens SPC 4320 solution and compare it with something like the Visonic Prowermax Pro which I believe can offer IP, GSM and X10.
So far I’ve got the following on the shopping list but looking for any recommendation to fill in the gaps.

1 x Siemens SPC 4320 or SPC 5320 alarm panel (with IP)

1 x SPCN310 GSM modem module

2 x Siemens SPCK422 – Keypad with wireless module (one for upstairs to be used to arm at night)

4 x Siemens IMKW6-10 wireless contact

x Wireless PIR’s Siemens or other manufactures which are compatible, please recommend make and model.

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

x Wireless External PIR’s which are compatible, please recommend make and model.

x Wireless Pet tolerant PIR’s Siemens or other manufactures which are compatible, please recommend make and model.

x Wireless Inertia contacts, please recommend make and model.

x Receivers for Inertia contacts, please recommend make and model

2 x Siemens IOPW6-11 wireless smoke detectors

3 x Siemens IRCW6-11 Remote control fob

Visonic are the only others you could have using the method mentioned above.

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

1 x Bell box, and matching dummy please recommend a suitable make and model.

http://www.pyronix.com/deltabellplus-external-sounder.php

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

x IP cameras suitable for use with SPC alarm, please recommend a suitable make and model.

Siemens will only support Siemens IP cameras with SPC panels.
Other will work but it depends.

Carbon Fibre wrote: »

Does anyone have any experience of using the Siemens SPCanywhere App / Web portal. Will I be able to register my Siemens alarm and make full use as a self installer and self monitor user, are there any related chargers for using this environment?

None its all free. Your panel is the server the portal just works as a redirect if you have dynamic IP address.

Did you get the manual I sent you?

Thunderbird2

Will Siemens give the licence key to DIY installers ?

KoolKid

Yeah,They don't seem to pay much attention to whose on the phone anyway.

Thunderbird2

Wow a bit careless of them ? Handy to know though

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Yeah,They don't seem to pay much attention to whose on the phone anyway.

Are you serious?

KoolKid

Pretty much the same as most tech support if you ask me.
Hello Im joe bloggs from ABC security...
I have never had any tech support ask me for ID have you?

fred funk }{

altor wrote: »

Are you serious?

I very regularly phone Siemens in the Uk. I have never once been asked who I was.

altor

Not very secure if any joe soap can ring and get the licensed key.
Any I would ring, they know me by name so never had any issues with ID.

KoolKid

Ring up & give a different name, Ill bet you still get looked after.
Speaking of which, I had a customer on a couple of weeks ago who got onto a well know manufacturer & got trade prices down to the penny for the panel & equipment he was inquiring about.

fred funk }{

KoolKid wrote: »

Ring up & give a different name, Ill bet you still get looked after.
Speaking of which, I had a customer on a couple of weeks ago who got onto a well know manufacturer & got trade prices down to the penny for the panel & equipment he was inquiring about.

Spill the beans.

altor

That should not be the case in my own opinion.
professional yes, Joe soaps no.

KoolKid

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Spill the beans.

3 Letters.:eek:

altor

ABC