Vodafone refusing refund/replacement - advise needed

gambit83

Hi,

I was looking for some advise.

Recently I bought a new phone from a Vodafone shop.
Within about a week I stopped receiving some text messages and some of mine weren't delivered.
Some people tried to ring me but the phone calls never came through either.
The phone also switched off by itself a few times.

I rang customer service and the representative that I spoke to sent me a few text messages and they didn't come through to my phone. He said to bring the phone into the Vodafone shop where I bought the product because their is a fault with the phone. I brought the phone in and the sales representative said that they can't give me a refund or replacement but that they would send the phone away to the manufacturer to be checked for the faults. Vodafone sent away the phone and it came back a few weeks with no faults found. I asked was I entitled to a refund or replacement and the person in the shop said no because their was no fault found, she said to put my SIM card into the phone and see if it works and if it doesn't then she will send it away again for testing.

Since then I've being using my old phone because I don't want to insert my SIM card into the new phone because if it doesn't work like before I won't know if I'm not receiving text messages or phone calls for a few days later like before and then its too late. So I'm left with a phone that I can't use and a case for the phone which now is useless.

I taught that I was entitled to a refund under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 but Vodafone are refusing one.

Do I have any rights in this situation? Am I entitled to a refund or replacement and if so how do I get it - should I try the Small Claims Court?

Any advise is much appreciated.

xxlauraxxox

you might want to post this on the vodfone thread as well they usually have reps on it

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1270

best of luck

gambit83

good idea, I'll do that too but I was speaking to a girl in Vodafone Customer Care yesterday and she said the same thing as the girl in the Vodafone shop (I'm not entitled to a refund/replacement but that they'll send it away for checking) so I presume that they'll say the same thing on here

I was wondering if anyone encountered a similar problem with Vodafone and if so what did they do??

GerardKeating

gambit83 wrote: »

I taught that I was entitled to a refund under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 but Vodafone are refusing one.

Do I have any rights in this situation? Am I entitled to a refund or replacement and if so how do I get it - should I try the Small Claims Court?

Any advise is much appreciated.

You are entitled to either a Repair, Refund or Replacement, but the choice of which one is not yours,

Vodafone opted for "Repair" and you have chosen not to test the repaired phone, so you might not win a claim in court, since you cannot prove the repair did not take.

Random

i have moved this thread to consumer issues where i think it belongs more. thanks

P. Breathnach

You really need to establish that the phone is not working properly since you got it back. I suggest that you put the simcard into it, send test messages to a few people, asking them to text you back. If you send, say, twelve messages and get eight replies, check the four missing replies to see if messages were received and replied to.

If you have already been without the phone for a few weeks and it is clear that it is still not working properly, you can reasonably refuse a further effort at repair and demand a replacement or refund.

The Small Claims Court would seem to be the best avenue.

dudara

Look, the first thing you need to do is test the repair. Until you've done that, we can't advise you on how to proceed.

mdebets

OP, first you have to actually put the SIM into the phone, to check that it is indeed not working.

You always have the rights to repair, replacement or refund, but only if your phone is faulty. However, the retailer also has the right to confirm, that the phone really is faulty and it's not just a network, SIM card or any other error. Vodafone has done this and came to the conclusion that it is not faulty (and I presume they won't change that, if they check it again).
You now have the choice, to go to the SCC and claim one of the three Rs from them (I don't think the checking constitutes a repair, but I might be wrong there). To succeed at the SCC, you need to proof that the phone is faulty, as Vodafone will claim that they checked it and they didn't find a fault. The best proof would be an independent report on the phone, but the judge might accept a test, by which you proof, that the SIM can receive texts in another phone, but not in your phone.

P. Breathnach

mdebets wrote: »

...
You now have the choice, to go to the SCC and claim one of the three Rs from them (I don't think the checking constitutes a repair, but I might be wrong there)....

OP reported a fault; Vodafone had the phone for some weeks in order to deal with it before claiming that there wasn't any fault. I am fairly confident that the SCC would treat that as the vendor's opportunity to effect a repair.

davo10

P. Breathnach wrote: »

OP reported a fault; Vodafone had the phone for some weeks in order to deal with it before claiming that there wasn't any fault. I am fairly confident that the SCC would treat that as the vendor's opportunity to effect a repair.

But OP has not bothered to check if it is functioning correctly now, why would you be confident SCC claim would be successful? surely the Judge would ask if it works after it was returned by vodafone.

gambit83

Thanks for the responses everyone, I guess I’ll put in the SIM card and see what happens
It’s just frustrating because I won't know if the phone doesn't work until it’s too late like before or else I’ll have to send myself a text message every few hours every day to make sure they are coming through which isn’t ideal!!!

It seems to me though that Vodafone don't have to take responsibility for the products that they sell - when I made initial contact with Vodafone, the customer care representative said that there was a fault with the phone as he sent me several text messages and none came through

I can’t prove this either. I asked him could I get a reference number so I would have proof that he said this and he said that everything is recorded on computers. When I rang Vodafone a few days ago I asked could I get a transcript of that conversation and the girl I spoke to said that they don't keep records and can't give me a copy. I just think that it’s pretty crap that I bought the phone from Vodafone and they don't take direct responsibility for the products that they sell, i.e. Vodafone will send the phone away for checking instead of checking the phone themselves, of course the manufacturers will say that there isn't a fault with their phones as this will give their brand a bad name

Apologies Moderator for putting the post in the wrong place and thanks for putting it in here

Del2005

gambit83 wrote: »

Thanks for the responses everyone, I guess I’ll put in the SIM card and see what happens
It’s just frustrating because I won't know if the phone doesn't work until it’s too late like before or else I’ll have to send myself a text message every few hours every day to make sure they are coming through which isn’t ideal!!!

It seems to me though that Vodafone don't have to take responsibility for the products that they sell - when I made initial contact with Vodafone, the customer care representative said that there was a fault with the phone as he sent me several text messages and none came through

I can’t prove this either. I asked him could I get a reference number so I would have proof that he said this and he said that everything is recorded on computers. When I rang Vodafone a few days ago I asked could I get a transcript of that conversation and the girl I spoke to said that they don't keep records and can't give me a copy. I just think that it’s pretty crap that I bought the phone from Vodafone and they don't take direct responsibility for the products that they sell, i.e. Vodafone will send the phone away for checking instead of checking the phone themselves, of course the manufacturers will say that there isn't a fault with their phones as this will give their brand a bad name

Apologies Moderator for putting the post in the wrong place and thanks for putting it in here

You have to request a copy of the call using the data protection act, you can't just ask for it, and don't mind the customer care person all incoming calls are recorded.

But first you need to find out if the phone is still acting up or not, I don't work with phones but have dealt with enough complex electronics fixing themselves after a few reboots to believe Vodafone. Just do as someone posted earlier, send a batch of text messages, to see if it's fixed. If you're worried about missing messages swap the SIM to the working phone at night. If you receive a load of texts at night it'll prove the new phone isn't working.

belcampprisoner

Complain on twitter or Facebook on their friends page as they will do more
What make and model of phone is it

P. Breathnach

davo10 wrote: »

But OP has not bothered to check if it is functioning correctly now, why would you be confident SCC claim would be successful? surely the Judge would ask if it works after it was returned by vodafone.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80904529&postcount=6

gambit83

Will try that Del2005, although it’s not ideal if I don’t receive a text message until it’s too late that night

It’s a Huawei Ascend G300 belcampprisoner

So I’ve switched the SIM to the new phone and sent 3 messages from my friends phone and none came through. I restarted the phone and 2 of the 3 came through, waited about 25 minutes for the other one but it never come through. Restarted the phone again and waited about 25 minutes and it still didn’t come through. Switched the SIM over to the old phone and the missing message came through on that phone!!

doubletrouble?

vodafone's policy is to send the item off 3 times for repair then after that they'll only replace it with the same type of phone. here is what the sale of goods act says.
“Repair:
IF YOU REQUEST A REPAIR OF A FAULTY PRODUCT INSTEAD OF REJECTING IT, IT SHOULD BE OF PERMANENT REPAIR. IF THE SAME FAULT OCCURS AGAIN THEN YOU SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO A REPLACEMENT OR REFUND. IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE RETAILERS OFFER TO REPAIR THE ITEM, YOU CAN REJECT IT. BUT IF YOU DO THIS, YOU MAY HAVE TO US THE SMALL CLAIMS PROCESS IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THE MATTER FURTHER.”

however

Changing your mind

"If you simply change your mind about a product you bought in a shop and decide you don't want to keep it, you do not have any rights under consumer law.

However, some retailers may offer to accept returns and give you an exchange or refund within a certain amount of time after the purchase. This is shop policy and a gesture of goodwill and not a legal requirement."

foggy_lad

OP from your description of the issue you are having I would say your problem is not the handset but network or sim card related!

First you should request a replacement sim card from Vodafone.

If that does not work you should write to Vodafone and make a "Formal Complaint" you must use the heading Formal Complaint otherwise it may not be recorded as a complaint. In the letter state that you have not been getting some calls and texts and that calls and texts you make/send are not completed on the network. Give as much information like times of messages and numbers sent to etc. Then if you get no proper response or resolution within ten working days you can send your complaint to ComReg and let them deal with Vodafone on your behalf.

Procrastastudy

doubletrouble? wrote: »

vodafone's policy is to send the item off 3 times for repair then after that they'll only replace it with the same type of phone. here is what the sale of goods act says.
“Repair:
IF YOU REQUEST A REPAIR OF A FAULTY PRODUCT INSTEAD OF REJECTING IT, IT SHOULD BE OF PERMANENT REPAIR. IF THE SAME FAULT OCCURS AGAIN THEN YOU SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO A REPLACEMENT OR REFUND. IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE RETAILERS OFFER TO REPAIR THE ITEM, YOU CAN REJECT IT. BUT IF YOU DO THIS, YOU MAY HAVE TO US THE SMALL CLAIMS PROCESS IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THE MATTER FURTHER.”

however

Changing your mind

"If you simply change your mind about a product you bought in a shop and decide you don't want to keep it, you do not have any rights under consumer law.

However, some retailers may offer to accept returns and give you an exchange or refund within a certain amount of time after the purchase. This is shop policy and a gesture of goodwill and not a legal requirement."

Thats how the NCA interpret the SOGASOS Act - not what it says. It's not even a great interpretation imho.

P. Breathnach

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Thats how the NCA interpret the SOGASOS Act - not what it says. It's not even a great interpretation imho.

I agree that it is not a great interpretation of the legislation, in particular because it does not give any weight to reasonableness.

For example, it is hardly reasonable to reject a new car on the basis that the radio does not work and the first effort to fix it is unsuccessful.

Further, there is a body of legal precedent that suggests that if you reject the retailer's offer of a repair, the courts are unlikely to side with you (again, subject to reasonableness: some things of their nature cannot satisfactorily be repaired).

foggy_lad

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I agree that it is not a great interpretation of the legislation, in particular because it does not give any weight to reasonableness.

For example, it is hardly reasonable to reject a new car on the basis that the radio does not work and the first effort to fix it is unsuccessful.

Further, there is a body of legal precedent that suggests that if you reject the retailer's offer of a repair, the courts are unlikely to side with you (again, subject to reasonableness: some things of their nature cannot satisfactorily be repaired).

if anything can't be repaired then a replacement is an option even when dealing with a faulty radio in a new car simply because not having a properly working radio will take so much from the value of the new car it then makes a replacement a reasonable option.

P. Breathnach

foggy_lad wrote: »

if anything can't be repaired then a replacement is an option even when dealing with a faulty radio in a new car simply because not having a properly working radio will take so much from the value of the new car it then makes a replacement a reasonable option.

But it still comes down to reasonableness. If you buy a €45 radio and it doesn't work properly, it is reasonable to reject it after one ineffective attempt at repair. But it is less obviously reasonable to reject a €22k car after one ineffective attempt to repair a non-functioning radio - you might demand that the radio be replaced.

Procrastastudy

My personal annoyance with it - is that it does not properly highlight to the consumer that that should receive a remedy within a reasonable time. If it's going to take weeks to have something repaired it should be replaced - this does not require an initial attempt at repair when one looks directly at the act. I also agree the reasonableness aspect is rather overlooked in many incidences.

foggy_lad

P. Breathnach wrote: »

But it still comes down to reasonableness. If you buy a €45 radio and it doesn't work properly, it is reasonable to reject it after one ineffective attempt at repair. But it is less obviously reasonable to reject a €22k car after one ineffective attempt to repair a non-functioning radio - you might demand that the radio be replaced.

Yes indeed you would not reject a more expensive item because one removable part has failed but you can reject that part which has failed and if the repair/replacement is not made available in a reasonable time of 2weeks you could then seek to reject the whole car as the retailer will have shown a certain lack of ability in providing after sales care.

RangeR

OP. Just put a free sim in it and text it a few times, if you are so worried about losing live texts.

Gormal

Have you registered your handset on the vodafone website? If so did you get the settings sent to your phone and install them? This sometimes solves text/call issues....... it may help or it may not but it's certainly worth a try.

Riamfada

It really sounds like a sim card issue. But you cant post here if Vodafone have repaired the fault but you still want a new phone without checking did Vodafone actually fix it.

charlietheminxx

It's not necessarily a sim issue - I had this problem twice with my old phone. Meteor repaired it twice, apparently it was a "software issue" but it was very annoying, as the first time when I put my SIM into a replacement phone I got 63 messages, some of which were important and from a week previous. It's worse when you get some messages and not others, as it's very hard to prove there is a fault. Also, as well as being without your phone for a week or two, you lose EVERYTHING on a phone as it is factory reset when repaired. If you have important messages or info on the phone, this can be a nightmare.

The OP has said above that they have tested it and some messages still aren't coming through until their SIM is in another phone.

It's unacceptable, bring it back, the issue has not been fixed.