Keeping cats out of garden?

TooManyDogs

Ayla wrote: »

Every animal's natural instinct is to roam - there is not a single animal in existence (other than humans) that have chosen to remain permanently planted in any one spot. So why are cats the only ones given this carte blanche hall pass to do whatever they please where ever they please?

+1
I've said this many many times on here in cat roaming threads. Just because it's in a domesticated animal's instincts to roam doesn't mean it should be allowed to. There are no other pet/domesticated animals who aren't confined except for cats. Herd animals would naturally roam large distances grazing but are contained to a farmer's field, wild rabbits and hares roam over a field yet apparently free roaming of a private garden is too much room?

One of my dogs in her hayday was able to scale 13ft walls, does that mean I don't have responsibility to keep her in my garden because she can scale a wall like a cat does? I should be allowed let her use everyone elses garden as a toilet and let her chase the neighbours pets around their own property?

kylith

SillyMangoX wrote: »

With the large number of these threads of people complaining about cats fouling in gardens would it be worth setting up a 'name and shame' thread? Basically if you find a cat who has been doing the dirt in your garden, throw up a picture and state location in the hope someone here owns or recognises said creature, because a big mind set of "my fluffy tiddles wouldnt do a thing like that" is going on. (i admit I can be guilty of this at times!) so seeing your cat all over the web messing up someone's garden might be the kick up the posterior that some people need to contain their critters! ( as for me, I hope my felines wouldnt be guilty as I often see them going in my garden but who knows!)

It's not even that, it's: "Well, no-one's complained to me about it, so they must all be ok with it". The problem being, as someone pointed out up thread, that very few people can follow a cat home, up fences, over roofs, and along walls to find out where it lives. One can complain about one's neighbour's barking dogs because one knows where the dogs live, the best I can do with cats in my area is to have a suspicion about what street they live on, so there is no-one to whom I can complain when the cats are annoying my dogs.

Not that even knowing where they live would be any help. Every time we have one of these threads I ask: Cat owners, if your neighbour came to your house and showed you pictures of your cat defecating in their garden/eating their pet rabbit, or even just said that your cat was no longer welcome in their garden would you then confine it to yours? I don't think I've ever gotten an answer to it...

Shenshen

kylith wrote: »

Not that even knowing where they live would be any help. Every time we have one of these threads I ask: Cat owners, if your neighbour came to your house and showed you pictures of your cat defecating in their garden/eating their pet rabbit, or even just said that your cat was no longer welcome in their garden would you then confine it to yours? I don't think I've ever gotten an answer to it...

I wouldn't even need to see a picture. If anyone complained, the cats would be confined to the house for the time being.
We're currently working on getting our place cat-proofed, but as we need planning permission for the front we can't do much just yet other than wait. But we know our neighbours all round, and none of them mind the cats. The lady next door enjoys them coming for a visit. So the main reason we want the garden closed off is that we're fed up with people who walk their dogs off the leash out in the street, as the dogs keep coming into the garden to crap on the lawn and chase the cats.

Yes, building up a wall and putting on gates will cost us a good bit, but hey, you can't expect people to keep dogs confined to their gardens, or on a leash or under control when in public.

TooManyDogs

Shenshen wrote: »

Yes, building up a wall and putting on gates will cost us a good bit, but hey, you can't expect people to keep dogs confined to their gardens, or on a leash or under control when in public.

Of course you can expect people to keep dogs out of someone else's garden, it's not acceptable either. Only difference is that at least you can complain to the dog warden and get them to call out and warn the dog owners. Granted some people don't pay attention to dog wardens either but it'd make a difference with a good few owners and make them change their ways. No such option to complain about a cat though

Shenshen

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Of course you can expect people to keep dogs out of someone else's garden, it's not acceptable either. Only difference is that at least you can complain to the dog warden and get them to call out and warn the dog owners. Granted some people don't pay attention to dog wardens either but it'd make a difference with a good few owners and make them change their ways. No such option to complain about a cat though

Well, we tried ringing the dog warden and were told that people can let their dogs of the leash in the park across the road, nothing they can do there.
And if those dogs come running across the road into our garden, we should shut the gate (which we don't have yet).

But thanks for the tip.

kylith

Shenshen wrote: »

I wouldn't even need to see a picture. If anyone complained, the cats would be confined to the house for the time being.
We're currently working on getting our place cat-proofed, but as we need planning permission for the front we can't do much just yet other than wait. But we know our neighbours all round, and none of them mind the cats. The lady next door enjoys them coming for a visit. So the main reason we want the garden closed off is that we're fed up with people who walk their dogs off the leash out in the street, as the dogs keep coming into the garden to crap on the lawn and chase the cats.

Yes, building up a wall and putting on gates will cost us a good bit, but hey, you can't expect people to keep dogs confined to their gardens, or on a leash or under control when in public.

Good to hear that you're going to be keeping your kitties safe!

It's awful when people let their dogs roam, but at least you can report them to the warden.

nachocheese

Jesus, what a load of fuss over nothing. You should call the council and ask them to prevent the birds from flying over your houses too, lest they take a **** in your garden or on your car.

I live in an area with LOADS of roaming cats and my own cat roams, spending about half his time outside. Have no idea where they go to the bathroom but it's obviously not causing an issue as none of the neighbours complain. Their cats come into my garden when the dogs not out, our cat goes into theirs and everyone just gets on with things. They even go into eachother's houses from time to time (oh the horror! the horror!).

If you've a real issue with a cat going in your garden then get some courage together, prepare yourself to engage an actual human being and go to the owner and let them know what's going on. I know, it's much easier to run to the internet and moan to your hearts content but it really isn't going to solve anything and half baked solutions like a ****ing set of spikes on a solitary set of gates is not going to stop a cat entering your garden.

However, if the owner knows there's an issue they might only let the cat out after they've seen it go in a litter tray or similar.

I would never keep a cat indoors full time. If you do, you've to provide it with an enviroment that stimulates them and then play with them with toys and similar a lot to stimulate them aswell. Otherwise it's basically abuse. It's keeping a cat for the sole purpose of satisfying yourself if/when it suits you to deal with it which is just wrong.

Silverfish

I'd definitely complain if I knew who the cats belong to, but climbing over 8 foot walls through a load of gardens to trace the cats to their homes would be difficult.

nachocheese

Cats:
A: Maintain a small area that they patrol
and
B: Usually sit outside their own house

So no scaling of walls necessary. If you're in an estate, it'll most likely come from a house 3-4 houses up one way or the other, or the neighbours who share a wall at the back of your garden.

You could even be really, really daring and ask your neighbours if they know whose cat it is.

I know guys, we're talking potentially major levels of human contact here (comparatively) but it'll get your problems sorted without having to invest in silly spikes or having to climb 8 foot walls.

DBB

Mod note: Nachocheese,
Could you please follow your own advice and bear in mind that the posters you're aiming your posts at are human beings too.
As per the forum charter, we expect civility between posters. Everyone can express their opinion without sarcasm or attempting to belittle each other.
Not for the first time in this thread I am having to ask a poster to keep it civil.
Do not respond to this post on-thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Silverfish

nachocheese wrote: »

Cats:
A: Maintain a small area that they patrol
and
B: Usually sit outside their own house

So no scaling of walls necessary. If you're in an estate, it'll most likely come from a house 3-4 houses up one way or the other, or the neighbours who share a wall at the back of your garden.

You could even be really, really daring and ask your neighbours if they know whose cat it is.

I know guys, we're talking potentially major levels of human contact here (comparatively) but it'll get your problems sorted without having to invest in silly spikes or having to climb 8 foot walls.

How will it solve my problem? If someone was to come to you and ask you to keep your cat out of their garden, would you do so?

And if so, why not assume that lots of people don't want your pets in their gardens and act accordingly. I don't see how someone knocking on a door and stating the problem will change anything, the cat is out and wandering about because the owner doesn't want to / feel the need to keep it contained, they won't feel any different about that I'm sure just because someone finally complained.

DBB

I can answer those questions

Thank you, planetx, for answering my questions. You are the first and only cat-owning poster who has tried to answer my questions. So, thank you.

There are just a couple of things I'd like to comment on. Planetx, I'm using your post just for illustration's sake. I'm not trying to have a go at you personally and don't want you to think I am, but your post allows me to address some of the explanations being raised by some cat-owning posters in this thread for why, in their opinion, it's okay to allow their cats to roam.

I don't have a possessive reaction about them 'trespassing' onto my property.

It is really, really unfair to accuse posters like me of having a "possessive reaction" to cats coming into my garden, as has been suggested by several posters in this thread. I thought I had addressed this in my above post. I am not just looking at cats coming into my garden. If that's all they did, there'd hardly be a problem.

My neighbours' cats have cost me several hundred euros because of the damage they've done to my plants, my clothes, and my property. They have also made my garden a no-go zone: I can no longer enjoy my hobby because the neighbours cats destroy it all. I am utterly innocent in all of this. I did not make the decision to have a cat in my property, yet some cat owners seem to think it's acceptable to foist this on me. Why is this okay? I have never seen anybody able to answer this: why is this okay?

Now, please bear in mind, I know that this is the cats just doing "what nature intends": it's not their fault.
But just because a behaviour is natural, does not mean it is acceptable to those of us who have chosen not to keep cats as pets. All expressions of natural behaviour, in domesticated animals, is subject to a balancing act between allowing an animal to express natural behaviour, and not allowing that natural behaviour to become a problem for an innocent bystander. It is also true to say that some natural behaviours are actually harmful to the animal in question.
For dogs, horses, cows, hamsters, snakes, whatever, part of that balancing act means keeping the animals safely contained and under control, so that they do not pose a nuisance. Yet, for some reason, some cat owners don't think this applies to their cats. Why? I simply don't accept the excuses so far (re territory size etc): if those excuses were legitimate, how come many cat owners can perfectly well keep their cats enclosed in their house and/or garden enclosure and/or on lead in public without their cat going into some sort of mental breakdown? Maybe it's an Irish thing: other countries seem aghast at this laissez-faire attitude the Irish have to their cats. In any case, it simply does not matter that your cat wants to go further afield. ALL animals want to go further if given the space. But this is one of the compromises of living in a civil society: let your cat do what it wants, on your property, so that it does not cause a nuisance to innocent parties, nor endanger itself. It's all about compromise. All animal welfare is.

Responsible pet ownership is surely all about making sure that your pet's natural behaviours do not cause a nuisance to others. Your pet, that you are responsible for. Not me.
Dogs bark. You can report them to the council.
Dogs defaecate on the path. You can report them to the guards/warden.
Dogs run loose and annoy people. You can report them to the guards/warden.
Dogs kill sheep. You can report them to the guards/warden.
Dogs cause an accident. The owner can be sued.

I often have neighbours dogs passing through the garden, children too sometimes

With all due respect, having kids come into the garden is not the same thing as having cats come in. Certainly, the kids in this area do not defaecate on my plants, or urinate on my plants and clothes, or rip up my plants.
Similarly, any loose dogs running about here cannot access the back of my property because I have installed proper fencing to keep my dogs in, so that they can't annoy anyone else. However, dogs that do defaecate on my grass at the front are quickly identifiable, and are sent home with their "delivery" tied to their collar in a bag. In any case, the dog warden can be called if this becomes a problem.
But I can't do that with cats. Cats can freely access my garden, and cause the damage I've described. I don't know who owns them. I can't catch the cats. And I should not have to approach their owners. They never have to approach me, because I don't let my dogs bother anyone.

My "possessive reaction" to cats coming into my garden is NOT based on any lack of charity towards animals, it is not based on any dislike I have for cats, because I do like them. It is based on the fact that I am at a loss, both finanacial and emotional, because the cat's owners are quite frankly completely ignorant of their social, civil duties. I am, at this stage, worn out with them. I am not possessive. I am well peed off with my neighbours though.

Whatever justification some cat owners come up with for why I should have to put up with their cat's destructive behaviour, it really is NOT okay for anyone's cat (or dog) to defaecate in my garden. It is NOT acceptable for anyone's cats to destroy my plants. It is NOT acceptable that anyone's cat destroys my clothes. It is NOT acceptable that I can no longer enjoy my garden. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that anyone in this world can say to me to make me think that it's a cat owner's right to allow their cat do this to my property, and any justification for it is, quite frankly, unacceptable. I will NOT "just get over it", as some posters have suggested. I have patiently put up with it for years, and I am at the loss.

planetX wrote: »

You can't simply grab a cat like that and trap it in the house. It isn't practical for most people anyway - how do you stop cats slipping out doors when children are running in and out. How could you ever open a window?

The Sweeper has posted above about the steps she is taking to secure her garden to stop her cats escaping. Doesn't sound too expensive: it's probably going to take her a couple of days to do it? I posted a list of sites showing pictures of enclosures, some of them covering huge areas.
Yet this still is not good enough for some cat owners. Any reasonable suggestion that keeps EVERYBODY happy is immediately dismissed with "my cat won't like that" or "why should I". Well, you know what, this human doesn't like your cat destroying my garden. But do you care about MY needs or MY wishes? No. How very rude, and how utterly inconsiderate.
Your cat can have the run of your whole garden, your cat can be contained safely on your property, your cat can live a full, happy, and SAFE life as a result.

I cannot, and will never, ever understand how any pet owner can deliberately endanger their pet, or on any level enable their pet to die a potentially horrendous death. I just cannot understand it. It simply beggars belief.
I absolutely applaud, wholeheartedly, the cat owners here who have built, or are building, enclosures or fencing to keep their cats in. No excuses, no fudging the issue, just responsibility and consideration both towards their neighbours and towards their cats.

I'm not going to post again because these threads make me feel really upset and miserable. I don't understand why people can't live and let live.

Me too. It cuts both ways. I get really upset at the thought of a pet owner being okay, on any level, with consciously endangering their pet's safety. I get upset that some cat owners simply cannot see my point of view, that it upsets me that their cat is costing me, and that somehow I'M the baddie in all of it?

Cedrus

I had a new kind of trespass/ incursion today, got home to find a lost cat flyposter thumbtacked onto a tree in my front garden. In this estate all the houses have a tree in our front garden courtesy of the developer and the cat poster is tacked to every 4th/5th tree, all private property.

They've given an address 2 km away on the far side of a dual carriageway so I don't rate the cats chances of making it this far.

nachocheese

Silverfish wrote: »

How will it solve my problem? If someone was to come to you and ask you to keep your cat out of their garden, would you do so?

And if so, why not assume that lots of people don't want your pets in their gardens and act accordingly. I don't see how someone knocking on a door and stating the problem will change anything, the cat is out and wandering about because the owner doesn't want to / feel the need to keep it contained, they won't feel any different about that I'm sure just because someone finally complained.

Given that cats don't dig or carry out any other destruction to a garden, any issue surrounding them would be with them going to the toilet. If a cat was repeatedly doing poos in someone's garden, the owner could keep the cat in until it has went in its litter box and then let it out, thus significantly reducing the likelihood of it going in said person's garden.

Cats are for the most part basically non-existent when it comes to gardens, they're no different to birds and tbh if you're so precious about your garden that you've a problem with birds/cats just wandering through then you've likely significantly bigger issues in your life than a few animals in your garden.

If there's an issue with other animals, say cats fighting or whatever, then that's a different matter but that's not what the thread is about.

Silverfish

nachocheese wrote: »

Given that cats don't dig or carry out any other destruction to a garden, any issue surrounding them would be with them going to the toilet. If a cat was repeatedly doing poos in someone's garden, the owner could keep the cat in until it has went in its litter box and then let it out, thus significantly reducing the likelihood of it going in said person's garden.

Cats are for the most part basically non-existent when it comes to gardens, they're no different to birds and tbh if you're so precious about your garden that you've a problem with birds/cats just wandering through then you've likely significantly bigger issues in your life than a few animals in your garden.

If there's an issue with other animals, say cats fighting or whatever, then that's a different matter but that's not what the thread is about.

You didn't read this thread, did you.

Making digs at me about being 'precious' about my 'garden' are neither working, nor contributing in any way. The issue is that cats are coming into my garden and causing physical harm to my pets, in their own garden.

I want cat owners to keep their cats contained, rather than me having to try and keep several different cats out.

I'm starting to see that there is no way to try and make people see that I can't let my pets out because their pets are natural predators. It's not my job to police other people's pets, so like I said, they'll be relocated out of my garden to the nearest animal shelter.

toadfly

nachocheese wrote: »

If you've a real issue with a cat going in your garden then get some courage together, prepare yourself to engage an actual human being and go to the owner and let them know what's going on. I know, it's much easier to run to the internet and moan to your hearts content but it really isn't going to solve anything and half baked solutions like a ****ing set of spikes on a solitary set of gates is not going to stop a cat entering your garden.

I would have no problem speaking to the owner if I knew who that was. I have only ever seen this cat at night and theres no way I am following him home then.

I had a problem with a neighbour, she let her dog out to $hit in my front garden, I knew who owned the dog so I spoke to her. Didnt make a blind bit of difference but yes I am well capable of having a conversation and Im not just running to the internet giving out.

I just cant understand how cat or dog owners who let their animal roam can say they care about that animal when its very likely they are going to get killed sometime they are out for a wander.

DBB

nachocheese wrote: »

Given that cats don't dig or carry out any other destruction to a garden, any issue surrounding them would be with them going to the toilet.

Cats don't dig? Can you come up here and tell the cats around here that? They do dig. They dig to bury their faeces unless it is a midden they're using for territory marking. Then they leave it all on the surface.
Is digging to defaecate, defaecating, and peeing all over stuff not destructive behaviour?

Cats are for the most part basically non-existent when it comes to gardens, they're no different to birds and tbh if you're so precious about your garden that you've a problem with birds/cats just wandering through then you've likely significantly bigger issues in your life than a few animals in your garden.

Here we go again. So if someone has a keen interest in their garden, invests time, money and dedication to their garden, and a cat comes in and digs up most of the plants, and deposits faeces all over the beds, on the gardener's own property, the garden owner is now being precious?
Have you read any of the other posts in this thread?
Just try, just for a minute, to put yourself into my shoes here. Is there something you love to do or make? Something you have invested a lot of time in? How would you feel if I came in and trashed it all on you, and told you it's your fault? And to tell you you're being precious because you get peed off at me for showing such an utter lack of regard for you?

Heroditas

We have three cats. Two since they were kittens and have always kept them indoors.
The third was a stray who was initially terrified of indoors but now won't set foot outside the house.
We put a roof on the side passage of the house and they have their own little run there. I'm attaching a greenhouse to it this weekend (also for my flowers) to give them more freedom and somewhere to sun themselves. Next I'll build a mesh against the fence running to the greenhouse to give even more freedom.
It's easily done. We have a few cats in the neighbourhood who invade our garden. Doesn't bother me too much but I can see how it would annoy lots of people.
We keep the cats in for their own safety and longevity. They're extremely healthy and very content.
If people want to let theirs roam, fair enough. They just have to accept the fact that a dog could kill it, it could get splatted by a car or poisoned or shot by a disgruntled neighbour.
Not really fair on the cat though....

fatmammycat

nachocheese wrote: »

Given that cats don't dig or carry out any other destruction to a garden, any issue surrounding them would be with them going to the toilet. If a cat was repeatedly doing poos in someone's garden, the owner could keep the cat in until it has went in its litter box and then let it out, thus significantly reducing the likelihood of it going in said person's garden.

Cats are for the most part basically non-existent when it comes to gardens, they're no different to birds and tbh if you're so precious about your garden that you've a problem with birds/cats just wandering through then you've likely significantly bigger issues in your life than a few animals in your garden.

If there's an issue with other animals, say cats fighting or whatever, then that's a different matter but that's not what the thread is about.

Pfft, I've two cats, they dig, kill birds/butterflies and destroy my bedding plants quite often, but they're MY cats so I've accepted that as part of owning them, I've also netted up the top of my walls so they don't get out into the neighbour's garden. Plus it keeps other -aggressive toms- out.

nachocheese

Silverfish wrote: »

You didn't read this thread, did you.

I have tried, really, I have. It is riddled with sanctimonious keyboard warriors, like a lot of the threads I've read on this particular sub-forum, so it was hard to get through admittedly.

Making digs at me about being 'precious' about my 'garden' are neither working, nor contributing in any way. The issue is that cats are coming into my garden and causing physical harm to my pets, in their own garden.

Yes well then you need to go and speak to the owner as that can't be tolerated.

I want cat owners to keep their cats contained, rather than me having to try and keep several different cats out.

Pretty much certain to not happen, not en mass anyway. The eccentric people with very expensive cats, perhaps.

I'm starting to see that there is no way to try and make people see that I can't let my pets out because their pets are natural predators. It's not my job to police other people's pets, so like I said, they'll be relocated out of my garden to the nearest animal shelter.

I certainly wouldn't do that if I were you. If your animals use your garden, they're a solitary poison-stuffed meatball away from extreme illness or death. I wouldn't take my frustration out on someone's pet, not least of all because I wouldn't want them retaliating on my own pet.

TillyGirl wrote: »

I just cant understand how cat or dog owners who let their animal roam can say they care about that animal when its very likely they are going to get killed sometime they are out for a wander.

Very likely as in... >50% chance they'll be killed on a wander? 'Cause I've grown up in areas with lots of wandering cats and dogs and not many come to mind as having been killed while wandering. Saying "very likely" would mean a lot of those same animals should have been killed wandering and yet...

DBB wrote: »

Cats don't dig? Can you come up here and tell the cats around here that? They do dig. They dig to bury their faeces unless it is a midden they're using for territory marking. Then they leave it all on the surface.
Is digging to defaecate, defaecating, and peeing all over stuff not destructive behaviour?



Here we go again. So if someone has a keen interest in their garden, invests time, money and dedication to their garden, and a cat comes in and digs up most of the plants, and deposits faeces all over the beds, on the gardener's own property, the garden owner is now being precious?
Have you read any of the other posts in this thread?
Just try, just for a minute, to put yourself into my shoes here. Is there something you love to do or make? Something you have invested a lot of time in? How would you feel if I came in and trashed it all on you, and told you it's your fault? And to tell you you're being precious because you get peed off at me for showing such an utter lack of regard for you?

Oh the hysteria! "Pulling up all me flowers they were, Joe, terrible it was Joe"

fatmammycat wrote: »

Pfft, I've two cats, they dig, kill birds/butterflies and destroy my bedding plants quite often, but they're MY cats so I've accepted that as part of owning them, I've also netted up the top of my walls so they don't get out into the neighbour's garden. Plus it keeps other -aggressive toms- out.

C'mon now, lets not be dishonest, the emboldened is the reason the nets are there, not some good citizen concern for your neighbours gardens.

DBB

Mod note:
Nachocheese banned for twice ignoring on-thread warnings, and for a nice PM sent to me in the meantime.
I don't see any reason to keep this thread open any longer, what a pity the uncivil behaviour demonstrated by Nachocheese here has meant this topic cannot be discussed in a mature and adult fashion.
Thread closed
Thanks,
DBB