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AnimalRights

I see so many ads now, at 1st I thought I was not logged in but I am!
I am prob in wrong forum as well :P

Ken.

7 threads down.

Tombi!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056759223
Subscribing gets rid of them.

Mr Benevolent

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056759223
Subscribing gets rid of them.

So does Ad Blocker for Chrome.

Boards.ie: Danny

Confab wrote: »

So does Ad Blocker for Chrome.

One pays the bill, the other contributes nothing. Guess which one we'd prefer?

Morag

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

One pays the bill, the other contributes nothing. Guess which one we'd prefer?

So posters contributions to the site, which is the content of the site contributes nothing?

So the numbers of people who actively use the site and those who view the site not logged in, those numbers which are used to get advertising and talk to forums contribute nothing?

Seriously that line your taking isn't helping.


Resistance to change is normal, esp when it's a site like this one which the core group of users, will use this site everyday, it's their home away from home on the internet.

Any change which interrupts the flow of reading the discussion and derails the train of though of the person reading them it going to grate, hugely and may impact on the the discussion and the type of reply or if people are even going to bother reply.

So it's an invasive change, and while it is only two more ads it's doubled the amount of ads on the page.

I understand that the arse has fallen out of the market for online ads, the going rate for them has plummeted and the site needs to serve more as a result and that the site has over heads it didn't have previously but as admirable as the rebuilding of the site to move away from VBB is and the new interface, it has been a lot of change and many people don't' see or get what it is that the staff does and only sees what they consider negative 'improvements'.

So we need more ads to keep the site running and to pay for what the staff do to make the site better.
Any chance of and insight into what it is the staff do to keep things kicking over and improvements which users may want/welcome instead of ones which we are told the site needs?

Boards.ie: Danny

Sharrow wrote: »

So posters contributions to the site, which is the content of the site contributes nothing?

Without being drawn into debate, this is not what I said at all. Using Ad Blockers contributes nothing to the revenue boards needs to run. Viewing ads (or paying to subscribe for ad removal) does.

Danny

Dude111

Yes but does it really help Danny??

I mean does anyone even click them??


I saw a site once that had PAY PER CLICK ADS and the admin wanted everyone to click them as much as possible to help generate funds... (Thats the only way i can see them being helpful as i dont think many even click them otherwise)

Tombi!

Actually Danny, if you could answer for me: with the banner adds (the ones in the threads themselves and not at the bottom of the page): do you get revenue from users just seeing them?

If so, would it still get you revenue if I just had an adblocker that I used to block the adds that move at the bottom of the page by the quick reply box (but left the other banner adds alone)?

Ken.

Dude111 wrote: »

Yes but does it really help Danny??

I mean does anyone even click them??


I saw a site once that had PAY PER CLICK ADS and the admin wanted everyone to click them as much as possible to help generate funds... (Thats the only way i can see them being helpful as i dont think many even click them otherwise)

Dav wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the comments, I was really hoping people would be as understanding as this - consider my faith in humanity somewhat restored

First things first, ads with sound are in fact the work of the Devil and Loki and we will have no part of them. Occasionally one will slip through when it's something that's using our "spare" inventory, but our sales team would never willingly take one. Ads that make sound when you do something with them (click/mouse over) are a different matter of course, I'm specifically thinking of the ads that play film trailers and so on. Standard rules of "if you see/hear one with sound, please let us know and we'll nuke it" still apply.

We're looking at a small change in the layout which may mean that we take the ads from after post 1 and 9 and put them at the top and bottom of all posts as suggested above. I like this idea myself as it means that you have an uninterrupted flow of all the actual page content and whilst you'll see an ad at the top, you won't see another till the bottom of the page.

Subscribers:
This has unfortunately gone on the long finger for quite a while as we've had other essential work that needed taking care of. It is something that's always bubbling away in the back of everyone's mind here in the office and we will on occasion think of ideas and add them to our mental list. I'm hoping to have something in place before the end of the year as a revamp of the subscribers package.

We don't operate on pay per click, it's pay for views (CPM is the business term for it - Wiki Article). Clicks improve the Clickthrough Rate obviously which is useful to us, but isn't the basis of how we sell ads.

.

Elmidena

If it's only views and not clicks that count, then why interrupt the threads in the first place? It seems a move set to antagonise the boardsies to be honest. I'd focus on stuffing them to the left and right of threads rather than in them tbh, as at the end of the day all it does is alienate people who might decide to stick around otherwise.
I am not a subscriber at the moment, but have been on a number of occasions since signing up so I am aware the ads being there are my fault so to speak, but I really would object less if they were less intrusive!

Dude111

ken wrote:

We don't operate on pay per click, it's pay for views (CPM is the business term for it - Wiki Article). Clicks improve the Clickthrough Rate obviously which is useful to us, but isn't the basis of how we sell ads.

Ahhhh ok,thank you Ken!!

Where To

I was just having trouble accessing threads on the touch site, whenever I opened a thread I got a service unavailable message.

I switched to the full site, working ok, switched back, got logged out, logged back in, was redirected to the front page of the full site again.

And there it was

An ad for Sky Sports.

say_who_now?

Where To wrote: »

I was just having trouble accessing threads on the touch site, whenever I opened a thread I got a service unavailable message.

I switched to the full site, working ok, switched back, got logged out, logged back in, was redirected to the front page of the full site again.

And there it was

An ad for Sky Sports.

I just had that too WT, on the touch site, I couldn't even click into threads or navigate to the Site Development forum to log a bug report as I kept getting the "Service Unavailable" message. I think Danny mentioned before that the adverts are picked at random from a server, but ever since they introduced them on the touch site- they've been nothing but trouble, and the only advert I ever seem to get is the advert for the adverts app.

I also don't like Dav's explanation above about his faith being restored in humanity, etc, Boards.ie USED to be a community; it is NOW a business, a subsidiary of Daft Media. To refer to it as a community any more is ridiculous IMHO. Boards.ie is now providing a service for companies to capture a wide audience, that is all. The threads are full of adverts and the onus is on THE INDIVIDUAL to choose whether they want to pay to remove adverts or not. Where is the community spirit in that?

Boards.ie has evolved into a corporate entity where users can come and go as they please without feeling they have to give anything "back" to the site because it is not a community. Boards.ie is proud of the fact that they can quote stats like page hits and so on to advertisers, while subscribers, as Dav himself admits "are put on the long finger".

So the question then has to be asked-

Who actually IS Boards.ie's priority- their advertisers who pay them to advertise on the site, or the users who make the site what it is? I would contend that Boards.ie's priority, because they are a corporate entity, is their advertisers. If Boards.ie were still a community, it's priority would be it's subscribers and its members.

About time we call a spade a spade around here.

Rev Hellfire

So the question then has to be asked-

If people don't want to view adverts and sufficient numbers don't seem to want to subscribe how does boards.ie pay to keep the staff and infrastructure running?

Tallon

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

Confab wrote: »

So does Ad Blocker for Chrome.

One pays the bill, the other contributes nothing. Guess which one we'd prefer?

In sure you'd 'prefer' to be given a million euro a day too, but that's not going to happen

I don't like that the term 'you shouldn't be using Adblock' seems to be thrown around a lot lately with these ad discussions

Are you going to ask is to stop using a certain Internet browser next?

say_who_now?

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

So the question then has to be asked-

If people don't want to view adverts and sufficient numbers don't seem to want to subscribe how does boards.ie pay to keep the staff and infrastructure running?

Well the answer is simple- create content that people are willing to pay for, or wrap up the business! And since Boards.ie does not create any content (it's members do!), then wrap up the business that isn't paying for itself.

But Dav has at least a proper alternative suggestion and I do hope to see it implemented- increasing the amount of businesses using the "Talk to" forums, and start listening to and prioritising subscribers, make them feel like they're getting value for their money, it's not enough just to say "pay us €50 per anum and you can contribute to user generated content with adverts turned off".

I for one want better value for my €50 than something I can work around with a piece of software- make as many appeals to my conscience as you want and even call it a community if you think that'll make me feel like I'm part of something, but tbh I'd sooner feel like I was getting value for my money that can't be got by using a piece of software to get around it.

That is the nature of business- give your target audience what they want, because if you fob them off telling them "We'll eventually get around to giving you something you want, but keep paying us anyway", users of the service will just say "NO!" and keep their money in their pockets.

When I go into a shop to buy a loaf of bread, the Brennans bread guy isn't standing there going "please buy my bread, I've got mouths to feed at home". I won't buy his bread if it tastes like dirt, I'll buy a bread I like the taste of, and if Brennans guy wants me to buy his bread, then change the recipe and give me a bread I'll want to buy! Same with Boards.ie- give me content I feel is worth paying for and don't bother telling me I'll get a warm fuzzy feeling inside if I pay over my hard earned cash to support somebody else. Boards.ie is a business, not a charity, and certainly doesn't feel anything like a community any more.

CrowdedHouse

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

If people don't want to view adverts and sufficient numbers don't seem to want to subscribe how does boards.ie pay to keep the staff and infrastructure running?

Meh...do what all the Corporates do, reduce the staff 'headcount', sweat more out of who's left.

Rev Hellfire

say_who_now? wrote: »

Well the answer is simple- create content that people are willing to pay for, or wrap up the business! And since Boards.ie does not create any content (it's members do!), then wrap up the business that isn't paying for itself.

No complaints there, if boards wants to be subscriber driven then its not going to work as a forum.

say_who_now? wrote: »

But Dav has at least a proper alternative suggestion and I do hope to see it implemented- increasing the amount of businesses using the "Talk to" forums, and start listening to and prioritising subscribers, make them feel like they're getting value for their money, it's not enough just to say "pay us €50 per anum and you can contribute to user generated content with adverts turned off".

Personally I have a problem with this idea of being beholden to these companies. If boards primarily relies on them for its funding, in my view its compromised and can be treated as just another shill site.
Proof will be in the reading though I guess, but I'd take anything said with a pinch of salt.

say_who_now? wrote: »

I for one want better value for my €50 than something I can work around with a piece of software- make as many appeals to my conscience as you want and even call it a community if you think that'll make me feel like I'm part of something, but tbh I'd sooner feel like I was getting value for my money that can't be got by using a piece of software to get around it.

I agree with you on the e50, if you're looking for value for money then you're not getting it. Though I always though it was pitched as more a sponsorship dealie.

say_who_now? wrote: »

When I go into a shop to buy a loaf of bread, the Brennans bread guy isn't standing there going "please buy my bread, I've got mouths to feed at home". I won't buy his bread if it tastes like dirt, I'll buy a bread I like the taste of, and if Brennans guy wants me to buy his bread, then change the recipe and give me a bread I'll want to buy!

I'm not sure that the analogy is quite correct, its like if you're not a subscriber (and you're using an adblocker) then you are simply just taking the bread off the shelf and walking off with it without reimbursing the suppliers.
It seems reasonable for them to ask for something in return.

minidazzler

When you subscribe, you're not paying for a service, everyone who does knows that. I'd say the majority of subscribers aren't even doing so to avail of the extra's. Most are just loyal members looking to give something back, because they get a lot from the community. Except for the fact that I'm broke as hell I'd subscribe.

Talking about user generated content and all that other stuff is grand, but boards provide the platform and infrastructure which doesn't come cheap, the staff of boards HQ are working on improving things every day. I don't see why people who regularly use boards and get a lot out of it can't just disable adblock for here, it's not like they are intrusive. You should have developed an internal noise filter by now to be able to skip over ads, it's not like they look like they are regular posts.

The old adage of "If you can't see the product that a company is selling to make money, then you are the product" rings true for boards, and I don't see why people can't just be good products. They are getting to use boards for free, if you see X Thousand ads a year it gives boards a few euro into the coffers while taking nothing away from you.

People need to stop being cnuts and just ignore the ads it's not that hard, especially if you are someone who actually enjoys boards.

say_who_now?

minidazzler wrote: »

When you subscribe, you're not paying for a service, everyone who does knows that. I'd say the majority of subscribers aren't even doing so to avail of the extra's. Most are just loyal members looking to give something back, because they get a lot from the community. Except for the fact that I'm broke as hell I'd subscribe.

Talking about user generated content and all that other stuff is grand, but boards provide the platform and infrastructure which doesn't come cheap, the staff of boards HQ are working on improving things every day. I don't see why people who regularly use boards and get a lot out of it can't just disable adblock for here, it's not like they are intrusive. You should have developed an internal noise filter by now to be able to skip over ads, it's not like they look like they are regular posts.

The old adage of "If you can't see the product that a company is selling to make money, then you are the product" rings true for boards, and I don't see why people can't just be good products. They are getting to use boards for free, if you see X Thousand ads a year it gives boards a few euro into the coffers while taking nothing away from you.

People need to stop being cnuts and just ignore the ads it's not that hard, especially if you are someone who actually enjoys boards.

You're joking right? Banner adverts on the top and bottom of every, single, page... then yet more adverts beside the quick reply box?

Boards needs to realise it can't have it all ways- revenue from advertisers, revenue from subscribers, and then revenue from the "talk to" forums. You can't keep everybody happy, so Boards needs to decide is it a community, funded by subscriptions from it's content creators, or is a business, funded by advertisers aimed at it's captive audience.

Right now Boards is talking out of both sides of it's mouth, telling potential advertisers about the huge captive audience it has with the biggest discussion site in Ireland, then turning round to it's members and telling them they're part of a community and they regale us with tales of how much it costs to run the servers, pay the staff, etc.

A community driven website full of loyal members will have no problem giving back to the community, but asking me to pay €50 a year to be called a tool by another "community member" in After Hours, is a bit Irish tbh! I just use that as one example.

Boards USED to feel like a small internet community, but it's become bigger than it can handle itself, became a corporate entity under Daft Media, and if 70% of members actually subscribed, how much of that subscription would go towards improving the user experience, and how much would go towards marketing, to capture yet a bigger audience, and then we're back at square one where the management of boards will come back and say "Now we need to increase subscriptions because our site costs have risen yet again".

Boards WAS a fantastic resource for discussion of all manner of subjects back in the early years, but the site has grown now to a stage where one man's vision comes at a price. Depending on how you look at it, the quality of user contributions to the site has dropped DRAMATICALLY, as the quantity of members making those contributions has increased.

The site feels more like an entity now than a community, an entity that has taken on a life of it's own, and outgrown it's manageability. If you are happy to be classified as a product for advertisers, more power to you, but I for one am not, and just like facebook, if Boards were to shut it's doors in the morning due to it's undecided and unsustainable business model- people would just go somewhere else.

Boards needs to tighten up, and start listening again to its loyal community members if it is to survive, and make them feel like their input is valued if it wants their continued participation or subscription, or else go back to the drawing board and redefine it's business model to make it a more attractive prospect to it's corporate customers, in which case it is not a community, but a corporate entity, that like any other corporate entity has to turn a significantly larger profit before they plan on expansion!

minidazzler

I think boards is doing a pretty decent job of walking the fine line between corporate and community. It can be both. The Community manages itself pretty well with generally good listening from Dav.

4 small ads can be ignored pretty easily, they move yeah, but they aren't in horrid colours they generally blend well with the site while standing out enough to not look like they are actual site content.

The Business Model is Advertising OR Subscription with some additional revenue brought in by Talk To Forums which you never have to even look at.

A Subscription only model is completely stupid, and there is no arguement for it.

The Ads are NOT that intrusive, they are simply on the page, right now I see 3 on this page, I'm using the New look with 40 posts per page. You are getting something for nothing and they aren't bombarding you with flashing images to win a totally for realz Ipad4.

As for the Community, I've noticed on some of the forums I used to use heavily there are fewer of the past regulars posting. But they aren't social forums so people just moved on. On the Social forums I use there is a bit of turnover but there is still somewhat of a core community. I don't see where you are getting the impression that there is a lack of community spirit. Maybe it's because you aren't included?

What reason would boards have to give back? It's already free to use boards, sure it makes some people money, but we get to use it for free because we choose to. If you view yourself as a "Content Creator" then create a blog and get it big enough to get paid for.

Boards does somewhat let long term posters a little lee-way in advertising their own businesses as long as it's not all they do, so I suppose that could be seen as giving back to the community.

I really don't understand why people hate the ads on here so much. And hating that their are ads. How fcuking DARE boards make money by placing something you can ignore on a webpage they don't force you to visit.

I can see your argument if it's something that we are forced to pay for, a TV licence for example, by threats. But when the subscription is purely voluntary and the ads can be removed by doing so, your argument fails to hold water. The staff of boards have to be paid, the bills for the running and hosting of the website have to be paid and many other overheads.

You use the site for free, if you don't like the ads why not fcuk off because obviously they are an evil corporate entity in your view.

Boards for dummies 101

Pay Subscription - No Ads - Enjoy boards.

See Ads - Ignore Ads - get something for nothing - enjoy boards

See Ads - Possess no internal noise filter - Throw fit

Block Ads - get something for nothing - boards get nothing for something - Dick move.

say_who_now?

minidazzler wrote: »

I think
You use the site for free, if you don't like the ads why not fcuk off because obviously they are an evil corporate entity in your view.

Boards for dummies 101

Pay Subscription - No Ads - Enjoy boards.

See Ads - Ignore Ads - get something for nothing - enjoy boards

See Ads - Possess no internal noise filter - Throw fit

Block Ads - get something for nothing - boards get nothing for something - Dick move.

Not once did I use the phrase or even imply that Boards was an "evil" corporate entity. I don't tend to use such juvenile idealist phrasiology, as I don't believe there is anything wrong with a business trying to squeeze a dollar out of a dime. Boards was once a small community, now it is a business, a legal entity if you will, but just because some users still view it as a community, does not make it so. In the same way as Boards was once viewed as a discussion site- many now view it as a social media website. Boards has a bit of an identity crisis.

And to be told to fcuk off by another community member does not exactly endear me to reach into my pocket and contribute towards the upkeep of a site that gives another person a platform to do so.

I may be a dick if I block advertisements, but tbh I'd sooner be called a dick than pay €50 to be called one anyway. Here's a novel idea- create a platform that users will WANT to pay for, and then Boards won't need advertisements, and in the process you'll wipe out all the freeloaders like myself who in your view want to give nothing back to the community.

Boards would baulk at this suggestion because it would mean they wouldn't be able to wax lyrical to their advertisers about how many pairs of eyeballs will peruse their adverts on a daily basis. Their revenue from advertisers far exceeds their subscriptions, so they care more about what their advertisers think than what their "community members" or subscribers think, clearly demonstrated by the fact that despite numerous requests for better value for their subscriptions, subscribers have been put "on the long finger" while Boards are so keen to prioritise the way the site looks for their advertisers.

If you think that Boards.ie Ltd. are improving the site to appeal more to it's "community" than it's advertisers, then ask yourself- where is Boards biggest revenue stream? Ironically enough, the answer is probably staring you in the face right now, unless of course you have your visual filters turned off.

For me I choose not to subscribe as the site does not in MY opinion provide value for money at €50 a year subscription, and until does, I will not be subscribing. If Boards wants my money, then they need to come up with a USP targeted at me, something I can't get anywhere else on the internet that I would consider is worth paying for...

Being told to fcuk off because I'm a dick isn't it, that's for sure, and is certainly not unique to boards.ie either!

N64

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

Without being drawn into debate, this is not what I said at all. Using Ad Blockers contributes nothing to the revenue boards needs to run. Viewing ads (or paying to subscribe for ad removal) does.

Danny

Out of intrest how much money does the commercial "talk to" boards generate?

I don't feel guilty one bit about using adblock on this site. Perhaps if you used non intrusive, beneficial ads then I would unblock (I disabled adblock for reddit, for example)

TheChrisD

minidazzler wrote: »

The Ads are NOT that intrusive

Except for the reports every few days of new audio-ads which play with or without mouseovers...

Boards.ie: Nicola

TheChrisD wrote: »

Except for the reports every few days of new audio-ads which play with or without mouseovers...

And they are the ads we really do not want but, like Danny said, can sometimes slip through.

If anyone spots an audio ad, please do send it on to me-as soon as I have the URL I'll pass it on to the traffic manager to be blocked

minidazzler

Boards.ie: Nicola wrote: »

And they are the ads we really do not want but, like Danny said, can sometimes slip through.

If anyone spots an audio ad, please do send it on to me-as soon as I have the URL I'll pass it on to the traffic manager to be blocked

Is there any singular thread for reporting "bad" ads? Kinda like the spammer thread, but for ads with sound and pop ups?

Boards.ie: Danny

minidazzler wrote: »

Is there any singular thread for reporting "bad" ads? Kinda like the spammer thread, but for ads with sound and pop ups?

Start one, if it becomes a commonly used thing I'm sure we'll sticky it somewhere

Danny

minidazzler

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

Start one, if it becomes a commonly used thing I'm sure we'll sticky it somewhere

Danny

I would, but the OP would need details and guidelines of what should and should not be reported (like SigPo). I mean, if it was up to me no sound at all, regardless of interaction, would be welcome. I suppose there aren't actually all that many that get through though