If rejoining the UK meant jobs and an end to austerity, would you?

homeless student

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/belgium-a-nation-divided-765752.html

homeless student

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

So 99.9% of your stats are made up?

why do you think 99.9% of my stats are made up? why would i make it up? i have nothing against belgians or anything, its the greeks im after:)

An Coilean

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You can ask someone form Cork, where they are from, they will respond, I'm Irish.Full stop.

:rolleyes:

There is only one responce anyone has ever gotten to that question.

'I'm from Cork, boiii'

Micky Dolenz

homeless student wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/belgium-a-nation-divided-765752.html

I see nothing about the 4% you mentioned, nor did I see the German speaking Belgians to the East, if we want to talk about diversion.

The Irish could learn a lot from the Belgians. A large percentage of the population ( I won't quote stats, as I don't know the exact figures) speak more then two languages, a lot speak three and more. These are bus/team/metro drivers, people who work in super markets. Basically from low paid workers to high paid ones.

Some Belgians may speak different languages, but they all can communicate.The Belgian self identity should never be in question

And what did the Greeks ever do to you?

Micky Dolenz

An Coilean wrote: »

:rolleyes:

There is only one responce anyone has ever gotten to that question.

'I'm from Cork, boiii'

heh, I'm talking about the ones who left the island.

homeless student

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I see nothing about the 4% you mentioned, nor did I see the German speaking Belgians to the East, if we want to talk about diversion.

The Irish could learn a lot from the Belgians. A large percentage of the population ( I won't quote stats, as I don't know the exact figures) speak more then two languages, a lot speak three and more. These are bus/team/metro drivers, people who work in super markets. Basically from low paid workers to high paid ones.

Some Belgians may speak different languages, but they all can communicate.The Belgian self identity should never be in question

And what did the Greeks ever do to you?

im looking for the poll results now.
dont really get what you are getting at when you talk about the belgians have 3 different languages? irish people are generally crap at learning languages,wonder why that is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjM8X9OKHas

Snowie

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Is it ok I voted yes because I want to be in the minority?

Micky Dolenz

homeless student wrote: »

im looking for the poll results now

I look forward to reading that,

homeless student wrote: »

dont really get what you are getting at when you talk about the belgians have 3 different languages?

Because it proves diversion. Diversion does not mean division, something the Irish could learn from.

marvin_spazz

i think the op should be hung up by the balls from the nearest tree for making such a blaaaaaa thread. didnt even make a point about anything just throw up a poll. yourself and pat kenny can f@ck right off

homeless student

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I look forward to reading that,



Because it proves diversion. Diversion does not mean division, something the Irish could learn from.

ill post it the minute i find it.
one thing they should be proud of is their soccer team btw.

NinjaK

We never joined in the first place.

Precious flower

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Join 'em I say! What's this whole argument of 'Irish identity'? Blah! I'd pick a job over keeping my 'identity' anyday!

philologos

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Sound of Silence wrote: »

I can assure you that any Nation or People that displays such eagerness to relinquish their Sovereignty will never profit. We've already taken one step on that road, lets not take another.

I'm just putting a bit of perspective on it. In the grand scheme of things nations rise and fall. Most of our nation states are fairly modern. It only took the Roman Empire 4 centuries. Most of the current nations in the word are far younger.

Personally I think the liberty, rights and freedoms of individuals are what count. Nations are fragile, you can't really place your trust in them.

Happyman42

haulagebasher wrote: »

Well said. In particular the attempted forceful regaelicization of Ireland is just as bad if not worse than the degaelecisation of times past due to the latter taking place in modern and enlightened times. The former took place in the 17 &18th centuries when such things were order of the day everywhere in the world.

You should try Irish OP, English, ^^ has obviously failed you. :rolleyes:

LordSutch

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

ArtSmart wrote: »

One big issue with England is the huge population density in urban areas. So if Ireland were part of England for real, it might mean urban sprawl.

Ireland has never be part of England, but being part of the UK is another story.

Iwasfrozen

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

philologos wrote: »

I'm just putting a bit of perspective on it. In the grand scheme of things nations rise and fall. Most of our nation states are fairly modern. It only took the Roman Empire 4 centuries. Most of the current nations in the word are far younger.

Personally I think the liberty, rights and freedoms of individuals are what count. Nations are fragile, you can't really place your trust in them.

Exactly, people can stick their nation. As long as I have freedom, liberty and a job I don't care who my taxes are paid to.

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Exactly, people can stick their nation. As long as I have freedom, liberty and a job I don't care who my taxes are paid to.

And you believe people got freedom, liberty and equal oppurtunities the last time the British got a free hand on this island? Jeepers :rolleyes:

BillyMitchel

An Coilean wrote: »

:rolleyes:

There is only one responce anyone has ever gotten to that question.

'I'm from Cork, boiii'

Anyone else read this in a Cork accent?

the_syco

I'd wonder how many of the groups up North would rip up the GFA, and gain members the moment we were put under Englands rule again?

philologos

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Happyman42 wrote: »

And you believe people got freedom, liberty and equal oppurtunities the last time the British got a free hand on this island? Jeepers :rolleyes:

Do you think the UK of 2012 is the same as 1912?

Personally any country that denies fundamental human rights should be heavily criticised. By the by the Republic isn't blameless in that regard either.

Happyman42

philologos wrote: »

Do you think the UK of 2012 is the same as 1912?

I was talking about 'the last' time the British had a free run on this island.
Undoubtedly they would not get away with similar actions that it took them 40 yrs to apologise for, but the potential is always there when you are ruled remotely. We can only fully protect our people when we are a separate nation. We have given away economic sovereignty and look what is happening.

Personally any country that denies fundamental human rights should be heavily criticised. By the by the Republic isn't blameless in that regard either.

The British are quite good at denying fundamental human rights while feigning goodwill. Hopefully Tony Blair's trial as a war criminal will illuminate that to his sheeple.

charlemont

Lots of ye that advocate a return to the Union would be the first ones moaning when Parliament abolishes duplicate and useless government bodies here, Pakistani corner shops all over the place, Noisy RAF planes over west Dublin, Late night pub opening, cheaper alcohol, Police tolerance of Weed, Council blocks.

The above are things that the moaners would clog Joe Duffy's phone line about.

Solair

While I love discussing pointless stuff as much as the next person, is this thread not totally pointless?

Ireland's not going to re-join the UK. It's about as unlikely as relocating the country to Mars or something. Politically speaking, it's just totally unpalatable and it would cause absolute mayhem.

Secondly, the UK is not really in particularly good financial, fiscal or economic shape either. It's got vast debts, a bailed out banking system and a massive property bubble and it's entirely dependent on the City of London's wheeler-dealer casino banking economy for most of its wealth. Its actual export industries are mostly gone since the early 1980s thanks to Thatcher's attempts to modernise the economy and turn the country into a giant bank / stock brokers.

We just need to deal with the property bubble we had here and get on with it.

How would joining the UK help?

We'd still have all the debts, we'd have no fiscal control, taxation control etc whatsoever and we would end up as a far-flung region within the UK that would just sink into underdevelopment and end up like a rough part of the North of England.

It would absolutely not mean the end of austerity. It would be exactly the same story just with the Tories instead of FG + Labour and zero Irish input into their decision making.

There's serious austerity going in in the UK at the moment!

You'd also get to shovel all your taxation money into RBS, HBOS, and various other British sink holes instead AIB, Anglo and the other financial vortexes we have locally.

I honestly don't think you'd be much better off in say in modern-day North Wales than you would be in the West of Ireland.
North Wales has to put up with probably less control, not exactly wonderful infrastructure and a lot of the environmental consequences of things like nuclear power plants plonked in what were remote areas that have now lost tourism as a result e.g. Trawsfynydd NPP which was located in a stunningly scenic part of Wales and has left it with huge environmental consequences since its closure in the early 90s.

http://adaptivereuse.net/wp-content/uploads/images/arup-Trawsfynydd.jpg

Maglight

syklops wrote: »

Absolutely not. Things are temporarily not fantastic, but its only a blip. Look back over the last 90 years of independence. There were good times and bad times. We've had the Emergency when tea was rationed(tea!?!), the Troubles, when people were getting blown up. Right now we just have the Unpleasentness where people are living in houses they can't quite afford. They have tea and their not being blown up. Things aint so bad yet.

The unpleasantness - love it

Solair

Maglight wrote: »

The unpleasantness - love it

It's nearly as bad as the great disagreeableness of the 1980s!

Iwasfrozen

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Happyman42 wrote: »

And you believe people got freedom, liberty and equal oppurtunities the last time the British got a free hand on this island? Jeepers :rolleyes:

Things have changed. The question is would we join now for an end to austerity.

charlemont wrote: »

Lots of ye that advocate a return to the Union would be the first ones moaning when Parliament abolishes duplicate and useless government bodies here, Pakistani corner shops all over the place, Noisy RAF planes over west Dublin, Late night pub opening, cheaper alcohol, Police tolerance of Weed, Council blocks.

The above are things that the moaners would clog Joe Duffy's phone line about.

The highlighted ones sound freckin' amazing!

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Things have changed. The question is would we join now for an end to austerity.

No they haven't, they have just refocused their imperialist bent someplace else.

Britian has it's own problems and more coming down the line. It would increase the chances of more austerity, peripheral concerns are pheriperal concerns in times of fiscal crisis. We would bear the brunt of it over and over again.

Iwasfrozen

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Happyman42 wrote: »

No they haven't, they have just refocused their imperialist bent someplace else.

Britian has it's own problems and more coming down the line. It would increase the chances of more austerity, peripheral concerns are pheriperal concerns in times of fiscal crisis. We would bear the brunt of it over and over again.

Imperialist bent? :rolleyes: You really think if we rejoined the UK we'd be back to the bad ol' days of famine and colonisation? Or does your admission that Britain has "refocused their imperialist bent someplace else" refute your earlier point that we wouldn't have freedom liberty and equality in a modern day UK? Tbh I don't care what Britain does in the middle east. It's not the focus of this topic because they're going to do it whether we join them or not.

And perhaps. But they aren't in the Eurozone. And don't suffer from the same cute hoor syndrome we do. All of which combine to say they're looking to be in a mighty fine position compared to us. And besides you know we aren't talking about a direct rule situation here? More like the devo max proposed for Scotland. It'll never happen though of course.

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Imperialist bent? :rolleyes: You really think if we rejoined the UK we'd be back to the bad ol' days of famine and colonisation? Or does your admission that Britain has "refocused their imperialist bent someplace else" refute your earlier point that we wouldn't have freedom liberty and equality in a modern day UK? Tbh I don't care what Britain does in the middle east. It's not the focus of this topic because they're going to do it whether we join them or not.

And perhaps. But they aren't in the Eurozone. And don't suffer from the same cute hoor syndrome we do. All of which combine to say they're looking to be in a mighty fine position compared to us. And besides you know we aren't talking about a direct rule situation here? More like the devo max proposed for Scotland. It'll never happen though of course.

All you seem to care about is money. As long as you have it, fook the rest, and to hell with what is done in your name. Just emigrate and live in some soulless foreign suburb. You'll be richer... in a one dimensional way anyway.

Rented Mule

I'm reading through 12 pages of this thread. Basically, the OP wants to know if a 'change of masters' would be good for the country.

No....it would not be a good thing.

Iwasfrozen

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Happyman42 wrote: »

All you seem to care about is money. As long as you have it, fook the rest, and to hell with what is done in your name. Just emigrate and live in some soulless foreign suburb. You'll be richer... in a one dimensional way anyway.

Not only money, though it's nice I'd put freedom before it. And why emigrate? I have friends and family here.

Lollipops23

I genuinely don't know what I'd make of it; much as i'd love to have the jobs etc (and wouldn't particularly mind being part of the UK) I'd worry about what a move like that would do to the Irish image on the world stage.

Like I tend to get annoyed when Yanks think Ireland is part of the UK now, so joining up would make us look pretty pathetic. TBH my annoyance now is their ignorance of geography and not that they think I'm English...

philologos

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Happyman42 wrote: »

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Things have changed. The question is would we join now for an end to austerity.

No they haven't, they have just refocused their imperialist bent someplace else.

Britian has it's own problems and more coming down the line. It would increase the chances of more austerity, peripheral concerns are pheriperal concerns in times of fiscal crisis. We would bear the brunt of it over and over again.

The Bank of England have published quite recently that things are improving in the UK and that the worst has gone. From seeing things in London it looks like there is plenty of work at least.

Happyman42

philologos wrote: »

The Bank of England have published quite recently that things are improving in the UK and that the worst has gone. From seeing things in London it looks like there is plenty of work at least.

A 'Bank' says that does it? We'll all live happily ever after so. :rolleyes:

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Rejoining the UK?
What like, we voted to join it the first time around?:)

Bullseye1

I hate to be the bearer of bad news to the west Brits out there but its really bad over there too.

Nodin

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

In fairness, the UK and the British Empire were pretty bad ass and Ireland did play a role in building it in the first place. After all, it was the Empire of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

"bad ass". Thats one way of putting it.

The Foreign Office intervened to stop a criminal investigation into the alleged massacre of 24 unarmed villagers by British troops, in a cover-up that puts Britain's colonial past under renewed scrutiny. Newly disclosed documents reveal that in the 1990s UK officials pressured Malaysian authorities into aborting a police inquiry into the alleged killings by Scots Guards in Malaya in 1948.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/09/malaya-massacre-villagers-coverup

Elkins reveals that the British detained not 80,000 Kikuyu, as the official histories maintain, but almost the entire population of one and a half million people, in camps and fortified villages. There, thousands were beaten to death or died from malnutrition, typhoid, tuberculosis and dysentery. In some camps almost all the children died.

The inmates were used as slave labour. Above the gates were edifying slogans, such as "Labour and freedom" and "He who helps himself will also be helped". Loudspeakers broadcast the national anthem and patriotic exhortations. People deemed to have disobeyed the rules were killed in front of the others. The survivors were forced to dig mass graves, which were quickly filled. Unless you have a strong stomach I advise you to skip the next paragraph.

Interrogation under torture was widespread. Many of the men were anally raped, using knives, broken bottles, rifle barrels, snakes and scorpions. A favourite technique was to hold a man upside down, his head in a bucket of water, while sand was rammed into his rectum with a stick. Women were gang-raped by the guards. People were mauled by dogs and electrocuted. The British devised a special tool which they used for first crushing and then ripping off testicles. They used pliers to mutilate women's breasts. They cut off inmates' ears and fingers and gouged out their eyes. They dragged people behind Land Rovers until their bodies disintegrated. Men were rolled up in barbed wire and kicked around the compound.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/23/british-empire-crimes-ignore-atrocities

The Foreign Office stands accused of misleading the public over the plight of thousands of islanders who were expelled from their Indian Ocean homeland to make way for a large US military base.
More than 2,000 islanders – described privately by the Foreign Office as "Man Fridays" – were evicted from the British colony of Diego Garcia in the 1960s and 70s. The Foreign Office, backed by the US, has fought a long legal battle to prevent them returning home.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/dec/03/wikileaks-cables-diego-garcia-uk

I think we've enough of our own sins and flaws to handle, without taking on that lot as well.

Sir Pompous Righteousness

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Nodin wrote: »

"bad ass". Thats one way of putting it.

.....

I think we've enough of our own sins and flaws to handle, without taking on that lot as well.

Yes, I think spilling blood for world domination is pretty bad ass. It reads like a Hellsing comic. And by the way, there is barely any nation in existence that doesn't have a history of blood lust.

Sulla Felix

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I voted yes, if we still get to have our own language/culture/etc.
And so long as I am not expected to sit around watching the fecking Queen give speeches.

Our language being English and culture being fscking corrie and the factors? The English won the cultural war hundreds f year's ago.

Madam

I'm afraid they wouldn't want yis anyway - they have enough to do to keep their own in jobs!

DoesNotCompute

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

If it means that

1. our Social Welfare payments are lowered to match the UK's Social Welfare system, and
2. our overpaid Ministers, their advisors, the Directors and CEOs of all the State quangos and Semi-States have to reduce their remunerations to match those of their UK counterparts

then hell yeah.

Madam

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

If it means that

1. our Social Welfare payments are lowered to match the UK's Social Welfare system, and
2. our overpaid Ministers, their advisors, the Directors and CEOs of all the State quangos and Semi-States have to reduce their remunerations to match those of their UK counterparts

then hell yeah.

Oh we have our Quangos over here too and have you ever heard of the expeses scandal? Ireland after all just loves to follow all things British:rolleyes:

Benny_Cake

I'm anything but a Republican, I've never voted for Sinn Fein and never will, but the amount of self-loathing / cultural cringe in this thread is really something. We have our problems in this country, and they are pretty bad right now, but times will change and we still have it a lot better than most of the world. You don't have to hate someone else's country to love your own, I like Britain and most British people, but I'm Irish, dammit!

Piliger

We have the best country in the world, by a long long way. I hope the whiners emigrate and leave us to enjoy it.

Mickey Dazzler

I would rather eat the Queens arse out than rejoin the Union.

Nodin

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

Yes, I think spilling blood for world domination is pretty bad ass. It reads like a Hellsing comic. And by the way, there is barely any nation in existence that doesn't have a history of blood lust.

O thats ok then. Odd that you believe that some groups can't be joked about, but have no problem with the oul Empire.

Solair

Would that mean that TDs could apply for 2nd home and moat cleaning expenses like their UK counterparts?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/19/douglas-hogg-mps-expenses

Those moats are damn expensive to clean you know!

LordSutch

NO! I rather die on me feet than live on my knees.....800 years...de Brits...rabble rabble

I suspect that most UK politicians lead ordinary lives, be they in Stormomt, Holyrood, Cardiff or Westminster, there are of course exceptions.

Sound of Silence

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Our language being English and culture being fscking corrie and the factors? The English won the cultural war hundreds f year's ago.

That's regarded as Culture?

Clearly our standards have lowered substantially.

Niles

No. Not anti-British or anything. But we need to look at the bigger picture. I know things are bad at the moment (spent a long time unemployed, and know many struggling still) but in the context of history this is but a moment in time. We as a nation will get back on our feet eventually, and while we're struggling at the moment, it doesn't mean that we have failed as a nation full stop. It would be a terrible shame (hypothetically speaking) if we were to give up our independence for what would ultimately be a fix for a particular problem that will eventually be overcome.