One in fifty killed by US killer drones in Pakistan is a known "terrorist".

Run_to_da_hills

The inconsistency of these cowardly American weapons dose not come to a shock to me at all, what worries me more is the manner in which the US war industry is promoting these weapons on a Global scale.

A report has claimed just one in 50 victims of U.S. 'surgical' strikes in Pakistan are known terrorists - while the rest are often civilians blown up in second 'double tap' hits.

Following the findings of their research, legal experts have condemned the ruthless U.S. tactic of drone strikes in tribal areas for their ineffectiveness in targeting militants.

The study conducted at Stanford and New York Universities found the covert war run by the U.S. against violent Islamists has become increasingly deadly despite the overall frequency of strikes falling.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2208307/Americas-deadly-double-tap-drone-attacks-killing-49-people-known-terrorist-Pakistan.html

Dolmio Pants

I personally believe that a fifth of U.S. of Americans cannot locate it on a map, like, such as, the Iraq.

CreepingDeath

Prevention is the best cure.

Slurryface

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The inconsistency of these cowardly American weapons dose not come to a shock to me at all, what worries me more is the manner in which the US war industry is promoting these weapons on a Global scale.

A report has claimed just one in 50 victims of U.S. 'surgical' strikes in Pakistan are known terrorists - while the rest are often civilians blown up in second 'double tap' hits.

Following the findings of their research, legal experts have condemned the ruthless U.S. tactic of drone strikes in tribal areas for their ineffectiveness in targeting militants.

The study conducted at Stanford and New York Universities found the covert war run by the U.S. against violent Islamists has become increasingly deadly despite the overall frequency of strikes falling.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2208307/Americas-deadly-double-tap-drone-attacks-killing-49-people-known-terrorist-Pakistan.html

No more cowardly than flying planes into an office block, planting car bombs, blowing up trains and buses.
What you also seem to miss is that these drones are no less effective than using convential fighter bombers.
personally I have zero problem with them being used, you have to fight fire with fire!

ejmaztec

Slurryface wrote: »

No more cowardly than flying planes into an office block, planting car bombs, blowing up trains and buses.
What you also seem to miss is that these drones are no less effective than using convential fighter bombers.
personally I have zero problem with them being used, you have to fight fire with fire!

So you'd be quite happy if a wanted Islamic terrorist walking down Grafton Street was droned whilst standing in a group of innocent Irish pedestrians?

Unfortunately, every last one of us is expendable in the "war on terror".

Yedya

Well i don't think any these reports are going to stop the americans,they think they are the capital of the world....I don't think anyone will ever stand up to them.They have troops all over the world.They can strike any country within 24 hours,not that they actually would...

There is countless secret wars and convert ops going on around the world and nobody even knows about.

But war is war,innocent people will always die....

It's alot easier to use drones and Fighters to take out high up militant leaders rather then send in troops on the ground.But with the JDAM strikes like these there will always be collateral damage.In fairness they are fighting men that dress the same as civilans and move with them as "cover" .Also the enemy is using IED's that kill innocent civilans also.....

Dolmio Pants wrote: »

I personally believe that a fifth of U.S. of Americans cannot locate it on a map, like, such as, the Iraq.

Your post has almost no relevance to the thread.Your talking about the general IQ of Americans....

Rented Mule

Dolmio Pants wrote: »

I personally believe that a fifth of U.S. of Americans cannot locate it on a map, like, such as, the Iraq.

I'd say it would be a higher number. In saying that, I would say the same thing about the population of Ireland.

Slurryface

ejmaztec wrote: »

So you'd be quite happy if a wanted Islamic terrorist walking down Grafton Street was droned whilst standing in a group of innocent Irish pedestrians?

Unfortunately, every last one of us is expendable in the "war on terror".

That bubba is the price of freedom in our society. Love this "Known Terrorist2 mullarkey too, none of the scum who flew the planes into the twin towers, or who blew up the buses and trains in london and Madrid was a "Known terrorist" until after they killed innocents.
You want to fight terror, then it has to be no holds barred, Pakistan wants to promote terrorism, fine let them accept the consequences.

speedboatchase

And yet not a single liberal has a peep over Obama and still moans about Bush and Gitmo, even though Obama's policy appears to be "kill indriscriminately, no need to ask questions later".

Do people even know that he has a "Kill List"? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www

Send on the Obama apologists!

ejmaztec

Slurryface wrote: »

That bubba is the price of freedom in our society. Love this "Known Terrorist2 mullarkey too, none of the scum who flew the planes into the twin towers, or who blew up the buses and trains in london and Madrid was a "Known terrorist" until after they killed innocents.
You want to fight terror, then it has to be no holds barred, Pakistan wants to promote terrorism, fine let them accept the consequences.

Now you want them all dead because they're potential terrorists?

Screw-ups with drones killing the wrong people do more to increase the number of terrorists when the survivors start looking for revenge. After such an event, the mad mullahs have no trouble at all getting new recruits, and so it goes on and on.

Dolmio Pants

Rented Mule wrote: »

I'd say it would be a higher number. In saying that, I would say the same thing about the population of Ireland.

I suppose.

Slurryface

speedboatchase wrote: »

And yet not a single liberal has a peep over Obama and still moans about Bush and Gitmo, even though Obama's policy appears to be "kill indriscriminately, no need to ask questions later".

Do people even know that he has a "Kill List"? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www

Send on the Obama apologists!

Why apologise for doing the right thing? Thats a crazy notion.

el dude

Slurryface wrote: »

No more cowardly than flying planes into an office block, planting car bombs, blowing up trains and buses.
What you also seem to miss is that these drones are no less effective than using convential fighter bombers.
personally I have zero problem with them being used, you have to fight fire with fire!

So the US army are no better than terrorists is what you're saying.

af_thefragile

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Prevention is the best cure.

Why not just nuke all of Arab/Mooslim lands... :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

ejmaztec wrote: »

So you'd be quite happy if a wanted Islamic terrorist walking down Grafton Street was droned whilst standing in a group of innocent Irish pedestrians?

Unfortunately, every last one of us is expendable in the "war on terror".

Would it make a difference if it was dropped from a manned bomber? People (RTDH being a major one) seem to have a bee in their bonnet about drones. Whats the difference other than there doesnt need to be a guy sitting in it

Zebra3

el dude wrote: »

So the US army are no better than terrorists is what you're saying.

Never have been.

The US backed terrorists in Nicaragua that caused the deaths of over 30,000 people. We tend not to hear much about it though.

Rented Mule

af_thefragile wrote: »

Why not just nuke all of Arab/Mooslim lands... :rolleyes:

It screws up the real estate.

Overheal

ejmaztec wrote: »

So you'd be quite happy if a wanted Islamic terrorist walking down Grafton Street was droned whilst standing in a group of innocent Irish pedestrians?

Unfortunately, every last one of us is expendable in the "war on terror".

http://gizmodo.com/5946091/meet-the-street-artist-whos-wanted-by-the-nypd-for-punking-the-police-with-drone-ads

/runs away

CreepingDeath

af_thefragile wrote: »

Why not just nuke all of Arab/Mooslim lands... :rolleyes:

Oil have to think about that one... :rolleyes:

wes

Considering that the US has referred to groups attacking funerals and using the double tap tactic as being terrorists. Then by there own logic, the US are terrorists.

hooradiation

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The inconsistency of these cowardly American weapons dose not come to a shock to me at al...

I boggle at the mindset that can, with utter seriousness, call an inanimate object "cowardly".

TwoShedsJackson

Why are you posting this $hite in AH? Pi$$ off back to Conspiracy Theories you loon.

Slurryface

ejmaztec wrote: »

Now you want them all dead because they're potential terrorists?

Screw-ups with drones killing the wrong people do more to increase the number of terrorists when the survivors start looking for revenge. After such an event, the mad mullahs have no trouble at all getting new recruits, and so it goes on and on.

Drones don't screw up any more than fighter bombers, these people are so eager to support terrorism, well now they know the price of that support.
You flawed logic appears to infer that if close to ignore the poor wikle terrowists then they will just go away, get real!

patmac

af_thefragile wrote: »

Why not just nuke all of Arab/Mooslim lands... :rolleyes:

I think that's next week.

Zebra3

Slurryface wrote: »

these people are so eager to support terrorism

The Americans? Yeah, spot on.

They love dictators too.

ejmaztec

Slurryface wrote: »

Drones don't screw up any more than fighter bombers, these people are so eager to support terrorism, well now they know the price of that support.
You flawed logic appears to infer that if close oor ignore the poor wikle terrowists then they will just go away, get real!

Can I have a translation please.

kowloon

Slurryface wrote: »

No more cowardly than flying planes into an office block, planting car bombs, blowing up trains and buses.
What you also seem to miss is that these drones are no less effective than using convential fighter bombers.
personally I have zero problem with them being used, you have to fight fire with fire!

As mental as the entire Islamic fundamentalism thing is, it's still pretty ballsy doing anything that results in your certain death. Bad people, probably, cowards? not so much.

long range shooter

Zebra3 wrote: »

Never have been.

The US backed terrorists in Nicaragua that caused the deaths of over 30,000 people. We tend not to hear much about it though.

We dont hear to much about this either:rolleyes:

1. Muslim Turkey has expelled approximately 1,500,000 Greeks from its empire in the east and replaced them with Turks. They have massacred approximately 2 million Armenians and replaced them with Turks in the west.
2. Muslim Turkey has invaded and occupied northern Cyprus, displacing the Greeks living there.
3. Muslim northern Sudan has conquered much of southern Sudan, literally enslaving its Christian and pagan population.
4. Indonesian imperialism has occupied all of non-Islamic western New Guinea and incorporated into Indonesia.
5. Muslim Indonesia has invaded and conquered Christian East Timor with horrible loss of life.
6. This very day, Muslim Indonesia is attempting to destroy Christianity in what used to be called the Celebes.
7. A half-dozen Arab countries have fought two to four wars (depending how you count) in an attempt to destroy Israel and occupy its territory, and is currently continuing the attempt this very day with the publicly voted consent of 55 of the world's 57 Islamic nations.
8. For no good reason, Muslim Libya has blown up western aircraft, killing many civilians.
9. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist war of aggression, invaded and occupied Muslim Kuwait.
10. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist act of aggression, invaded Muslim Iran with a resulting (some estimates say) death of 2 million people.
11. Muslim Albania, this very minute, is attempting to enlarge its borders at Christian Macedonia's expense.
12. Muslim Northern Nigeria has been (and is currently) an aggressor against the Christian south.
13. Muslims expelled approximately 800,000 Jews from their homelands between 1947 and 1955.
14. During Jordan's occupation of the West Bank, the kingdom undertook an unsuccessful attempt to make Jerusalem a Muslim city by forcing out approximately 10,000 Christian inhabitants.

Run_to_da_hills

hooradiation wrote: »

I boggle at the mindset that can, with utter seriousness, call an inanimate object "cowardly".

Those behind it then, just like the Nazis launching their V1 "Doodlebugs" against London remotely from a great distance. In this case you have joystick warriors operating these drones at distance with no official military training the than a miss spent youth playing video games

Piliger

Slurryface wrote: »

Drones don't screw up any more than fighter bombers, these people are so eager to support terrorism, well now they know the price of that support.
You flawed logic appears to infer that if close oor ignore the poor wikle terrowists then they will just go away, get real!

These drones are doing a brilliant job. Forget this garbage from Stanford and New York - they haven't a bloody clue. We need to take out all of these evil Muslim terrorist murderers and the US is the only one with the guts to do it.

Zebra3

long range shooter wrote: »

We dont hear to much about this either:rolleyes:

1. Muslim Turkey has expelled approximately 1,500,000 Greeks from its empire in the east and replaced them with Turks. They have massacred approximately 2 million Armenians and replaced them with Turks in the west.
2. Muslim Turkey has invaded and occupied northern Cyprus, displacing the Greeks living there.
3. Muslim northern Sudan has conquered much of southern Sudan, literally enslaving its Christian and pagan population.
4. Indonesian imperialism has occupied all of non-Islamic western New Guinea and incorporated into Indonesia.
5. Muslim Indonesia has invaded and conquered Christian East Timor with horrible loss of life.
6. This very day, Muslim Indonesia is attempting to destroy Christianity in what used to be called the Celebes.
7. A half-dozen Arab countries have fought two to four wars (depending how you count) in an attempt to destroy Israel and occupy its territory, and is currently continuing the attempt this very day with the publicly voted consent of 55 of the world's 57 Islamic nations.
8. For no good reason, Muslim Libya has blown up western aircraft, killing many civilians.
9. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist war of aggression, invaded and occupied Muslim Kuwait.
10. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist act of aggression, invaded Muslim Iran with a resulting (some estimates say) death of 2 million people.
11. Muslim Albania, this very minute, is attempting to enlarge its borders at Christian Macedonia's expense.
12. Muslim Northern Nigeria has been (and is currently) an aggressor against the Christian south.
13. Muslims expelled approximately 800,000 Jews from their homelands between 1947 and 1955.
14. During Jordan's occupation of the West Bank, the kingdom undertook an unsuccessful attempt to make Jerusalem a Muslim city by forcing out approximately 10,000 Christian inhabitants.

Off the top of my head....

"Muslim Indonesia" carried out those atrocities while backed by the United States.

"Muslim Iraq"? Haha. Clueless. Secular Iraq would be more accurate. And yes, Iraq invaded Iran (a country that the US helped overthrow the democracticlly eleceted government). Iraq during their war on Iran gassed Iranian civilians and military which was against international law.

Go on, guess who supported Iraq during their aggresive war on Iran.

Benny_Cake

Piliger wrote: »

Slurryface wrote: »

Drones don't screw up any more than fighter bombers, these people are so eager to support terrorism, well now they know the price of that support.
You flawed logic appears to infer that if close oor ignore the poor wikle terrowists then they will just go away, get real!

These drones are doing a brilliant job. Forget this garbage from Stanford and New York - they haven't a bloody clue. We need to take out all of these evil Muslim terrorist murderers and the US is the only one with the guts to do it.

I fail to see how killing human beings from the safety of a computer screen shows "guts". The drone campaign is completely undermining the stability of Pakistan which will have consequences as well as allowing the use of military force without any risk of repercussions in terms of public disapproval stateside. It makes waging war just to easy.

It appears that I've partially agreed with Run_to_da_hills so I need to go and lie down now.

twinytwo

kowloon wrote: »

As mental as the entire Islamic fundamentalism thing is, it's still pretty ballsy doing anything that results in your certain death. Bad people, probably, cowards? not so much.

walking into a crowd of unarmed women and children and blowing yourself up is as cowardly as it gets................

pablomakaveli

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I fail to see how killing human beings from the safety of a computer screen shows "guts". The drone campaign is completely undermining the stability of Pakistan which will have consequences as well as allowing the use of military force without any risk of repercussions in terms of public disapproval stateside. It makes waging war just to easy.

It appears that I've partially agreed with Run_to_da_hills so I need to go and lie down now.

A lot of the militants being killed by the drone strikes are trained by Pakistani security forces. There'd be no drone campaign in Pakistan if the Pakistanis themselves weren't in bed with them.

marshbaboon

Slurryface wrote: »

That bubba is the price of freedom in our society. Love this "Known Terrorist2 mullarkey too, none of the scum who flew the planes into the twin towers, or who blew up the buses and trains in london and Madrid was a "Known terrorist" until after they killed innocents.
You want to fight terror, then it has to be no holds barred, Pakistan wants to promote terrorism, fine let them accept the consequences.

Piliger wrote: »

These drones are doing a brilliant job. Forget this garbage from Stanford and New York - they haven't a bloody clue. We need to take out all of these evil Muslim terrorist murderers and the US is the only one with the guts to do it.

Right, so, quick question. How is the American killing of innocents any different than the Muslim killing of innocents? If it's to incite fear in the population, as you say, that sounds like terrorism to me.. considering that war hasn't been declared.

Is it because "they started it", and thus America can murder civilians indiscriminately and call it "collateral"? I'm not even going to go into the American arms dealing to Iraq during the Iran Iraq war, Enron, or the state of Israel.

America is very like the middle east. You have a certain amount of fundamentalists that want to force their ideals onto the rest of the world, and the innocents that suffer and die because of those ideals.

Yedya

kowloon wrote: »

As mental as the entire Islamic fundamentalism thing is, it's still pretty ballsy doing anything that results in your certain death. Bad people, probably, cowards? not so much.

And IED's?

pablomakaveli

marshbaboon wrote: »

Right, so, quick question. How is the American killing of innocents any different than the Muslim killing of innocents? If it's to incite fear in the population, as you say, that sounds like terrorism to me.. considering that war hasn't been declared.

Is it because "they started it", and thus America can murder civilians indiscriminately and call it "collateral"? I'm not even going to go into the American arms dealing to Iraq during the Iran Iraq war, Enron, or the state of Israel.

America is very like the middle east. You have a certain amount of fundamentalists that want to force their ideals onto the rest of the world, and the innocents that suffer and die because of those ideals.

America doesnt deliberately target innocents they target the militants. The Islamist militants like to target innocents specifically however so its not like for like.

karma_

pablomakaveli wrote: »

America doesnt deliberately target innocents they target the militants. The Islamist militants like to target innocents specifically however so its not like for like.

That's all well and good, until that is you read the definition of a militant according to the US administration.

all military-age males in a strike zone"

If Cork were a strike zone and you were over the age of 16 and male I have news for you pal, you're a militant.

czx

karma_ wrote: »

If Cork were a strike zone and you were over the age of 16 and male I have news for you pal, you're a militant.

Then why would they bother conducting tactical strikes? What does the US have to gain by targeting civilians?

pablomakaveli

karma_ wrote: »

That's all well and good, until that is you read the definition of a militant according to the US administration.



If Cork were a strike zone and you were over the age of 16 and male I have news for you pal, you're a militant.

But they are not hitting every random male over the age of 16. These strikes are not conducted randomly. A lot of surveillance and reconnaissance will be carried out. There conditions for carrying out a strike, for example seeing someone carrying weapons.

Im not saying they get it right everytime but it isnt mindless blowing up of everything as so many people like to portray it.

c_man

Woo Obama, four more years of this, woo.

karma_

czx wrote: »

Then why would they bother conducting tactical strikes? What does the US have to gain by targeting civilians?

Yeah mate, heres something I won't be doing - having a conversation with yourself about anything, I've seen a canine make more progress chasing his tail.

czx

karma_ wrote: »

Yeah mate, heres something I won't be doing - having a conversation with yourself about anything, I've seen a canine make more progress chasing his tail.

Thought so.

karma_

pablomakaveli wrote: »

But they are not hitting every random male over the age of 16. These strikes are not conducted randomly. A lot of surveillance and reconnaissance will be carried out. There conditions for carrying out a strike, for example seeing someone carrying weapons.

Im not saying they get it right everytime but it isnt mindless blowing up of everything as so many people like to portray it.

Well the reason they use this definition, it's to make their success rate appear more accurate, if they deem every male over 16 to be a militant then they won;t have to face the same level of criticism. No doubt they do get actual terrorists, but this completely glosses over the horrific civilian casualties.

c_man wrote: »

Woo Obama, four more years of this, woo.

c_man, the most depressing is that Romney would be much much worse.

Remmy

The other forty nine are freedom fighters .

Run_to_da_hills

c_man wrote: »

Woo Obama, four more years of this, woo.

Another four years of Drone Frenzy and no doubt he will turn on his own people with them.

enfant terrible

and the way the news covers the deaths

‘A bomb went off in Kandahar today, killing two British servicemen, three UN relief workers and a whole bunch of Pakis.’

pablomakaveli

karma_ wrote: »

Well the reason they use this definition, it's to make their success rate appear more accurate, if they deem every male over 16 to be a militant then they won;t have to face the same level of criticism. No doubt they do get actual terrorists, but this completely glosses over the horrific civilian casualties.

The number of civilian casualties from these strikes vary wildly depending on the source.

While the american definition of militant may be used to gloss over civilian casualties we have to balance that with the possibility that relatives of victims may not admit their relative was involved with the militants when reporting their death.

Getting a real figure is almost impossible.

czx

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Another four years of Drone Frenzy and no doubt he will turn on his own people with them.

Like Judgement Day, ya?

karma_

pablomakaveli wrote: »

The number of civilian casualties from these strikes vary wildly depending on the source.

While the american definition of militant may be used to gloss over civilian casualties we have to balance that with the possibility that relatives of victims may not admit their relative was involved with the militants when reporting their death.

Getting a real figure is almost impossible.

None of which makes drone strikes any more morally palatable.

TwoShedsJackson

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Another four years of Drone Frenzy and no doubt he will turn on his own people with them.

No doubt.

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