Home Reposessed??

cookie1977

So now we'd like ghetto's for evicted people. Wow that will help society. I'm all fine for permanent housing for families in apt's when said apt's and complexes come up to a certain standard. Until then you'd be making a bad situation worse for those families.There's a reason it's called social housing and not social living. We don't have apt's suitable for families in this country. Again see the link above.

lima

cookie1977 wrote: »

So now we'd like ghetto's for evicted people. Wow that will help society. I'm all fine for permanent housing for families in apt's when said apt's and complexes come up to a certain standard. Until then you'd be making a bad situation worse for those families.There's a reason it's called social housing and not social living. We don't have apt's suitable for families in this country. Again see the link above.

Yes, if they can't afford to live in the banks houses then send them out somewhere where there is a glut of empty property. Easy. Banks can then sell their houses and recoup some of their money before targeting them for the rest.

cookie1977

lima wrote: »

Yes, if they can't afford to live in the banks houses then send them out somewhere where there is a glut of empty property. Easy. Banks can then sell their houses and recoup some of their money before targeting them for the rest.

Thankfully for the most part our government and country don't work that way.

strandroad

cookie1977 wrote: »

So now we'd like ghetto's for evicted people. Wow that will help society. I'm all fine for permanent housing for families in apt's when said apt's and complexes come up to a certain standard. Until then you'd be making a bad situation worse for those families.There's a reason it's called social housing and not social living. We don't have apt's suitable for families in this country. Again see the link above.

How do you even make a mental jump from changing one's lifestyle when times get tough to "ghettos for evicted people".

The link above is someone else's short opinion, and it actually disproves your point - if families are stuck in "starter" apartments, releasing squatted on houses into the market could actually help them.

cookie1977

Honest question as it applies here. Have any of the posters above got kids? If so have you tried living in an apt with them? Or any such small place with no play area (garden etc...)

cookie1977

And what of the evicted families. Posters above want them in apts? Not going to work, not going to happen.

strandroad

cookie1977 wrote: »

Honest question as it applies here. Have any of the posters above got kids? If so have you tried living in an apt with them? Or any such small place with no play area (garden etc...)

cookie1977 wrote: »

And what of the evicted families. Posters above want them in apts? Not going to work, not going to happen.

Have a look around, you seem to have some serious blinkers on. From flats to half of Dundrum and Stepaside people have been and are bringing children up in apartments.
Yes, if someone had a 1-bed bachelor pad and they had two babies in it it won't wash for long. But if you wish to give every family a house with a garden you better start digging for oil.
How many houses in Dublin don't even have a garden, just some silly patio 4x4 feet with a cinderblock wall and two rubbish bins. What do you want to give these people, sure it's unacceptable to live in such conditions? Why would people in trouble deserve a gift of what other people may not even have?

cookie1977

mhge wrote: »

Have a look around, you seem to have some serious blinkers on. From flats to half of Dundrum and Stepaside people have been and are bringing children up in apartments.
Yes, if someone had a 1-bed bachelor pad and they had two babies in it it won't wash for long. But if you wish to give every family a house with a garden you better start digging for oil.
How many houses in Dublin don't even have a garden, just some silly patio 4x4 feet with a cinderblock wall and two rubbish bins. What do you want to give these people, sure it's unacceptable to live in such conditions? Why would people in trouble deserve a gift of what other people may not even have?

Apt's in dundrum had to be evacuated as they were dangerous. Priory hall in dublin is still empty due to it's dangers. There are lots of other examples too. When they build proper complexes we can discuss your idea.

strandroad

cookie1977 wrote: »

Apt's in dundrum had to be evacuated as they were dangerous. Priory hall in dublin is still empty due to it's dangers. There are lots of other examples too. When they build proper complexes we can discuss your idea.

Just as there are plenty of mouldy, cold, pyrite built houses. So what?

Are you such an extreme welfare state supporter that you will require stellar standard paid with taxpayer money before you will even entertain the thought that people in trouble may need to adjust their lives accordingly? We had unemployment in the house through no fault of our own. Where's my salary? What about the dangers of "ghettoisation" with hoi polloi in the dole queue?

cookie1977

mhge wrote: »

Just as there are plenty of mouldy, cold, pyrite built houses. So what?

Are you such an extreme welfare state supporter that you will require stellar standard paid with taxpayer money before you will even entertain the thought that people in trouble may need to adjust their lives accordingly? We had unemployment in the house through no fault of our own. Where's my salary? What about the dangers of "ghettoisation" with hoi polloi in the dole queue?

Yes I'm such an extreme welfare supporter that I favour people being allowed to repay their debt, people not becoming reliant on state support with social housing and people not being a further burden on the tax payer. Whereas you favour evictions and families being moved to state housing. Ket pottle etc...

jmayo

Zamboni wrote: »

There is absolutely not a shortage of family homes in Dublin.
There are thousands of empty apartments.
Apartments are perfect for family living, but as usual, the Irish have a twisted view of entitlement for a nice 3 bed semi with gardens.

cookie1977 wrote: »

Try raising a family in an Irish 1 or 2 bed apartment complex and let me know how you get on. See here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82475033&postcount=335

cookie1977 wrote: »

Honest question as it applies here. Have any of the posters above got kids? If so have you tried living in an apt with them? Or any such small place with no play area (garden etc...)

True you do have a point that Irish apartments, especially those of the type built by the likes of carroll are not suitable, because there are stuck up with no real communal infrastructure like proper playgrounds etc.

Looking at your posts you are indulging in hyperbole and also think that people have a God given right to certain things.

You are whipping up a frenzy that would lead one to believe that it will be like when oliver cromwell arrived and threw thousands destitude onto the road side.

The banks will try and get some form of deal, that is if the borrower isn't being a smart ass and trying to pull a stunt where they offer €10 a week all the while keeping their 50" tv to watch skt sports.
So it aint as you seem to intimate where there will be swat team backed bailiffs chucking thousands out onto the streets overnight.

Secondly you appear to believe that people are entitled to certain quality of life.
You were the one that dragged the fecking UN into this claiming Braodband is a right.
Well it is not, just like having a personal garden for you kids to play in is not a bloody right.
Some people are going to have to lump it and face the fact they and their kids will have to move somewhere smaller, maybe without the fancy decking, the sky package, the spare room or whatever else they had in the property they can no longer afford.

Your entitlement mullarkey reminds me of the gent in Limerick/Clare who demanded a larger free hosue form the council/HSE because he saw fit to keep on expanding his family.
He had gotten a normal basic family home.
It is not the states fault that he couldn't keep his mickie in his pants and his idea of a family was twice that of everyone else.
:rolleyes:

jmayo

cookie1977 wrote: »

Yes I'm such an extreme welfare supporter that I favour people being allowed to repay their debt, people not becoming reliant on state support with social housing and people not being a further burden on the tax payer. Whereas you favour evictions and families being moved to state housing. Ket pottle etc...

And what do you suggest for those who are either encapable of repaying, or unwilling to even make an effort to repay, their massive debts ?

Should they in your opinion still keep their property ?

strandroad

cookie1977 wrote: »

Yes I'm such an extreme welfare supporter that I favour people being allowed to repay their debt, people not becoming reliant on state support with social housing and people not being a further burden on the tax payer. Whereas you favour evictions and families being moved to state housing. Ket pottle etc...

They are not paying their debt, that's the whole point, and they are a burden on the taxpayer already. If they could pay half of it as your solution assumes, they'd be paying it now also and the banks negotiate with such people.

beaner88

cookie1977 wrote: »

And what of the evicted families. Posters above want them in apts? Not going to work, not going to happen.

I've a kid due and we're renting in an apartment. I suppose I'm the one who will have live in an apartment as I will have a hard time affording a house on a single income.

Zamboni

cookie1977 wrote: »

Try raising a family in an Irish 1 or 2 bed apartment complex and let me know how you get on. See here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82475033&postcount=335

The funny thing is, if rental prices went beyond a certain level I would have to raise a family in an apartment.
The difference is, I would have nobody to complain to if I simply couldn't afford it.
You are creating inequality between the renter and the mortgagee. I am not.

cookie1977

mhge wrote: »

They are not paying their debt, that's the whole point, and they are a burden on the taxpayer already. If they could pay half of it as your solution assumes, they'd be paying it now also and the banks negotiate with such people.

The banks are not negotiating like this at all. That's the problem. They are not a burden as it stands on the taxpayer as the banks have written down the bad mortgages and been compensated (recapitalised). Your method will result in a burden on the tax payer. Look I have nothing to gain from my opinions. Others on here have.

cookie1977

Zamboni wrote: »

The funny thing is, if rental prices went beyond a certain level I would have to raise a family in an apartment.
The difference is, I would have nobody to complain to if I simply couldn't afford it.
You are creating inequality between the renter and the mortgagee. I am not.

It's a fair point. I suppose the only thing I can say is that those renting are not exposed to massive debt unlike the other people.

Another point is that those families on welfare (not in debt from a mortgage) below a certain income get housed anyway so why don't renters (not in receipt of social welfare) complain about that?

strandroad

cookie1977 wrote: »

The banks are not negotiating like this at all. That's the problem.

For every news piece about arrears they also say how many more are restructured and proceed in this form; with the ability to pay 50% of your loan you don't need any magic solutions. The problem is with those who can't or won't pay even that.

cookie1977 wrote: »

They are not a burden as it stands on the taxpayer as the banks have written down the bad mortgages and been compensated (recapitalised). Your method will result in a burden on the tax payer. Look I have nothing to gain from my opinions. Others on here have.

At this point I really think you're trolling as you insist on ignoring basic facts so consistently. The writedown money has been pencilled in as a stress test scenario, but it doesn't mean that the scenario has to run and use it up. If it does, the taxpayer will end up with the bill. There is no magic free money.

curlzy

Hey,

I don't own a house although I could have got one since around 2005. I listened to may mammy when she said the economy is gonna crash, didn't buy and I'll be thanking my mammy until the day I die.

I have a good job, good car and am debt free. So in a way none of this really concerns me. But I really had to hop in here and say the attitude of some posters is beyond disgustingly selfish, mean hearted and downright cruel. Yeah "my taxes" are going to help others that were lied to by the government, Bertie and his cronies, the banks, let down by the banking regulator and told "get on the property ladder" morning, noon and night. However, I personally don't blame my fellow citizens, nor do I begrudge them help. I CANNOT blame them for being lied to.

My heart goes out to all the people that have lost their job, are having sleepless nights worrying about feeding and clothing their children or losing their jobs. I honestly cannot imagine the life they're living at the moment. NONE of this is their faults and the fact people are going on like it is is just pathetic and sick:mad:

So yeah any of you that are being made to feel bad or less than human by the likes of Lima and others, I say to you; it's not your fault. No one saw this coming, no one warned you. It's not your fault. I hope things get better for you soon. Personally I'm not over the moon about paying the banks but I will never ever begrudge my taxes going to social welfare, health, education, rent etc because I am glad to be Irish and I think the Irish people have got a very raw deal and I'm glad to help them out any way I can.

I just can't believe people are being sh*tty to people in such a bad situation, it has a very sadistic edge to it.

So yeah, sorry for the rant, just felt the need to hop in and say that.

Hope it all gets better this year,
C.

cookie1977

Sanity prevails.

beaner88

Get out of it Curlzy. It is largely their fault. Look at first preference votes for FF in the past decade and leadership satisfaction polls. The average man loved the property bubble and loved Ahern for it. They got everything they deserved.

I don't begrudge your charitable nature but I do not like being forced into contributing to my own families detriment.

kunst nugget

curlzy wrote: »

I say to you; it's not your fault. No one saw this coming, no one warned you.

Yer mammy did.

gutteruu

beaner88 wrote: »

I've a kid due and we're renting in an apartment. I suppose I'm the one who will have live in an apartment as I will have a hard time affording a house on a single income.

Don't be stupid. Buy a mansion. All you have to do is stop paying your mortgage and the bank will be obliged to take 50% under this new idea. That way you get a huge expensive property at half the price! Then call MARP and get your payments wrote down to 66% of the interest only for 5 years! You could be living like a king for pittance all legally and if anyone flares up, play the "caring society" card or "can't put the poor kids out on the street" card.

But don't forget its great for everyone including the banks. Maybe in the future, if you want to sell and maybe the house has gone up in value, maybe the bank will get some money back so maybe its a great deal for everyone. Lets spend all the banks/publics money now buying half of every house thats in arrears, as it maybe a fantastic deal in the future.

repsol

cookie1977 wrote: »

Honest question as it applies here. Have any of the posters above got kids? If so have you tried living in an apt with them? Or any such small place with no play area (garden etc...)

If you don't have room in your home for the kids to play,bring them to a park or a playground. There are hundreds of them.People in apartments would love a garden but they can make do until they can afford a move. Thats life. We can't always have everything we want.People in cities such as central New York or Tokyo would not even consider a garden an option so what makes everyone in this country so special.The mention of Priory Hall etc is irrelevant. Those apartments are unfit for anyone to live in regardless of the size of their family.

cookie1977

repsol wrote: »

If you don't have room in your home for the kids to play,bring them to a park or a playground. There are hundreds of them.People in apartments would love a garden but they can make do until they can afford a move. Thats life. We can't always have everything we want.People in cities such as central New York or Tokyo would not even consider a garden an option so what makes everyone in this country so special.The mention of Priory Hall etc is irrelevant. Those apartments are unfit for anyone to live in regardless of the size of their family.

Of course it's fine in a proper planned society. Except in other countries build decent complexes with appropriate services and ammeneties around. Our apt complexes are not. I would not be happy living next door to a family in a modern irish apt. The noise alone would drive people mad as there's such poor soundproofing between apts.


Mute point anyway as families with children are prioritised for housing under welfare.

jmayo

curlzy wrote: »

Hey,

I don't own a house although I could have got one since around 2005. I listened to may mammy when she said the economy is gonna crash, didn't buy and I'll be thanking my mammy until the day I die.

I have a good job, good car and am debt free. So in a way none of this really concerns me.

You see that is where you are wrong, because if you have a good job you are paying taxes and instead of those taxes being used for things like Garda, A&E, schools for any future kids of yours, the taxes according to some will be used to make sure some people stay in properties they no longer can afford.
And in some cases these may even be the type of properties that you may never get the chance to afford yourself.

Oh and when you go to eventually buy a property it's price will be higher because there is an artifical floor on the market and the banks will be lending less because they will have to bear the cost of writting off a lot of mortgages they shouldn't have.
Now see where this affects you ????

curlzy wrote: »

Yeah "my taxes" are going to help others that were lied to by the government, Bertie and his cronies, the banks, let down by the banking regulator and told "get on the property ladder" morning, noon and night. However, I personally don't blame my fellow citizens, nor do I begrudge them help. I CANNOT blame them for being lied to.

As a famous character once said. "It takes two to lie, one to lie and one to listen".
You would swear that people have no ability to make up their own minds.

Do you believe every fecking sales pitch that is thrown at you ?
Because if you do you must be a sales persons dream.

Ever hear of a thing called Personal Responsibility.

Your argument bears about as much credance as the guy standing up in court claiming it was the drinks fault for him attacking someone.
Actually remember how one guy blamed the medication he was on for attacking some poor woman.
Same thing in my opinion.

curlzy wrote: »

So yeah any of you that are being made to feel bad or less than human by the likes of Lima and others, I say to you; it's not your fault. No one saw this coming, no one warned you.

BULLSH**.
Sorry that is the only word I can use to describe that last sentence.
A lot of people did see it coming, but they were ridiculed and lambasted.

Ehhh BTW didn't your mammy did see it coming ?????

The_Conductor

jmayo- a little less of the aggression and personalisation please. Remember the motto- attack the post and not the poster. You're skating on thin ice here.......

OMD

jmayo wrote: »

BULLSH**.
Sorry that is the only word I can use to describe that last sentence.
A lot of people did see it coming, but they were ridiculed and lambasted.

Most economists did not see it coming. To expect people with no economics training to see something economists didn't is expecting too much.
Most who saw it coming were wrong in the timing of the end.

cookie1977

OMD wrote: »

Most economists did not see it coming. To expect people with no economics training to see something economists didn't is expecting too much.
Most who saw it coming were wrong in the timing of the end.

If you say something for long enough it will happen. That's what a lot did. they said a crash was going to happen and they'd said it for years but were incorrect about the timing as you say.

Seems the domestic economy is still down in the dumps:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0103/exchequer-deficit-at-14-billion-in-2012-business.html

and there's still increases in Spending at the Department of Social Protection which was 4.2% higher than forecast, at €13.9 billion for the year. Personal insolvency bill is almost signed off so that should provide debtors with greater traction to negotiate with their banks. We'll soon see/hear how that all goes.

looters

Sad, but I'm glad they are taking properties off people who were greedy and bought houses that were too big and flash for them to afford, rather then trying to get us to pay.

But, I feel bad for people who just needed to get a house for their family and got caught up in all the madness.