Time to re evaluate enoch powells "rivers of blood" speech

tiger55 · 28-09-2012 8:14pm

jimmi10 wrote: »

No. There will always be rough areas. If mass immigration is allowed and not managed then even more rough areas are created. It increases the problem even more. Look at Paris for example.

Try Sweden also.

Maybe Sweden had colonies in the 3rd world, and that's why they are there...oh wait...

Bannasidhe · 28-09-2012 8:18pm

kowloon wrote: »

Tell me that didn't happen in the last 30 years! :eek:

I could, but I would be lying. I can say it wasn't in this century.

Bannasidhe · 28-09-2012 8:23pm

tiger55 wrote: »

Try Sweden also.

Maybe Sweden had colonies in the 3rd world, and that's why they are there...oh wait...

You do know that Muslim's can be from any race yeah? I recently spent a week in Spain with 2 English Muslims named Steve and Kim. Kim, despite living in Spain for 4 years, is one of the whitest people I have ever met. She makes Doris Day look sallow skinned.

There are even Irish Muslims - with names like Gráinne and Siobhán. Imagine that!

Nodin · 28-09-2012 8:32pm

tiger55 wrote: »

Try Sweden also.

Maybe Sweden had colonies in the 3rd world, and that's why they are there...oh wait...

I see the David Duke fanclub is here.

Bannasidhe · 28-09-2012 9:38pm

tiger55 wrote: »

Maybe Sweden had colonies in the 3rd world, and that's why they are there...oh wait...

You know - a bit of research might help some people not end up looking a tad foolish when they try and pontificate

Sweden possessed overseas colonies from 1638 to 1663 and from 1784 to 1878.

The former Swedish colonies in Africa were:

Swedish Gold Coast (1650–1663; lost to Denmark and the Dutch) Including the Cape Coast (1649–1663) consisting of the following settlements:
Apollonia, presently Benin: 1655-1657.

Fort Christiansborg/Fort Frederiksborg, which became the capital, presently Osu: 1652-1658
Fort Batenstein, presently Butri: 1649-1656.
Fort Witsen, presently Takoradi: 1653-1658.
Carolusborg: April 1650 - January/February 1658, 10 December 1660- 22 April 1663

The former Swedish colonies in America:
Guadeloupe (1813–1814; returned to France)
Saint-Barthélemy (1784–1878; sold to France)
New Sweden (1638–1655; lost to the Dutch)
Tobago (1733; attempt for settlement thwarted by natives)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_overseas_colonies

Sweden also engaged in the slave trade, had it's own version of the Dutch VOC (East India Company) - the VOC and the British East India Company spearheaded 19th century colonial exploitation, indeed it was the excess' of the BEIC that caused the British government to take direct control of India - and Sweden had an empire, they lost their colonies because their empire fell.

long range shooter · 30-09-2012 3:10pm

Nodin wrote: »

So France, Britain, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and the rest are a "soft touch"? Fascinating.

Well Norway is a bit to soft if you ask me:eek:

Nodin · 30-09-2012 3:53pm

long range shooter wrote: »

Well Norway is a bit to soft if you ask me:eek:

And what makes you say that?

long range shooter · 30-09-2012 5:08pm

Nodin wrote: »

And what makes you say that?

Cause Norways integration and immigration politics have failed after Arbeiderpartiet came to power.:eek:
Hopefully this will be better when the new elections comes next year.:D
Oslo is the worst example,where ghettoes and schools are not mixed as they should be,with all nationalities.
Native Norwegians are instead moving out of certain areas in Oslo.

Nodin · 30-09-2012 6:21pm

long range shooter wrote: »

Cause Norways integration and immigration politics have failed after Arbeiderpartiet came to power.:eek:
Hopefully this will be better when the new elections comes next year.:D
Oslo is the worst example,where ghettoes and schools are not mixed as they should be,with all nationalities.
Native Norwegians are instead moving out of certain areas in Oslo.

According to you.

indioblack · 30-09-2012 7:45pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Whenever ever I see an English man, who would place his hand on his heart and praise the Empire, complain about immigration I do so laugh.

You have some foreigners in your country? For shame say I , but treat them well and you may just make up for Colonialism.

I am the son of a foreigner in this country, who was treated resonably well. Can I be excluded from your post-imperial guilt?

long range shooter · 01-10-2012 4:00am

Nodin wrote: »

According to you.

And wiki,your favorite spot:D

White flight has been seen in some neighborhoods as immigration of non-Scandinavians (in numerical order, starting with the largest group; migrants from Poland, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, Vietnam, Iran, Turkey, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Russia, Sri Lanka, The Philippines, UK, Kosovo, Thailand, Afghanistan, and Lithuania) has increased since the 1970s. By June 2009, more than 40% of Oslo schools had a majority of people of immigrant backgrounds, with some schools having a 97% immigrant share. Schools in Oslo are increasingly divided by ethnicity. For instance, in the Oslo borough of Groruddalen, which currently has a population of c. 165,000, the ethnic Norwegian population decreased by 1,500 in 2008, while the immigrant population increased by 1,600. In thirteen years, a total of 18,000 ethnic Norwegians have moved from the borough.
In January 2010, on the news programme Dagsrevyen on the public Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation, a feature story said, "Oslo has become a racially divided city. In some city districts the racial segregation starts already in kindergarten". Reporters during the feature said, "in the last years the brown schools have become browner, and the white schools whiter", an outspokenness which caused some minor controversy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

Nodin · 01-10-2012 7:29am

long range shooter wrote: »

And wiki,your favorite spot:D

White flight has been seen in (...........)caused some minor controversy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

So you've got it in for brown folk as well as the muslims. Well thats nice.

old hippy · 01-10-2012 1:42pm

long range shooter wrote: »

Well Norway is a bit to soft if you ask me:eek:

On the likes of Breivik, possibly

long range shooter · 02-10-2012 5:20am

Nodin wrote: »

So you've got it in for brown folk as well as the muslims. Well thats nice.

Did i mention anything about brown folks???Where did you see that,but i am surprised you didnt call me the R....t word will you where at it:rolleyes:
Its simple facts about failed integration and failed immigration politics.;)
Its funny when someone dont share the same view as you are being looked down on:rolleyes:

And Siv Jensen,leader of one of Norways biggest political parties FRP,seems a bit concerned too:eek:

http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/half-of-oslo-dwellers-immigrants-by-2040

long range shooter · 02-10-2012 5:23am

old hippy wrote: »

On the likes of Breivik, possibly

Really,thats quite insulting to say to a Norwegian native.
What he stands for i condemn with the rest of Norway.
But just the answer says a lot about you too:rolleyes:

PopePalpatine · 02-10-2012 9:57am

old hippy wrote: »

I live beside Southall and I've never had any problems, same goes for Brixton. The dangers you mention come from how people were treated on arrival and how their children were treated. If you ghettoise people and treat them like dirt, constantly denigrate them and their culture... you might just get social unrest. But amazingly enough, we get on well. Better than well, actually.

Great post. I was working with my dad in London at the end of August/start of September, and he lives near Seven Sisters Road. I'll admit that I appear to be an easy target, I'm not physically fit and I wear glasses. Not once was I attacked in the street when I was over there. During the day I could walk around by myself without a bother, and during the night neither me nor my father encountered any trouble.

old hippy · 02-10-2012 12:13pm

long range shooter wrote: »

Really,thats quite insulting to say to a Norwegian native.
What he stands for i condemn with the rest of Norway.
But just the answer says a lot about you too:rolleyes:

Just meeting flippancy with flippancy. I enjoyed my stay in Oslo, Bergen and the Lofoten Islands and saw plenty of cultures rubbing along well together. A Mexican lady in the tourist office who's lived in Norway for years was very entertaining. And everyone was very helpful and friendly. Nothing soft about that, at all.

Voodoo_rasher · 02-10-2012 12:15pm

Nodin wrote: »

They're perfectly entitled to come here and claim asylum, and they did. Considering the length of time it takes to get processed, the high refusal rate, and the fact that the benefits system is no better than elsewhere, I'd suggest you rethink your notions.

so it don't bother you that after attaining Irish citizenship, they will

subsequently bring over their large, sprawling extended families; siblings,

perhaps multiple spouses (wives), in-laws, ever growing numbers of

grandchildren , the works...As we all tend to take the short-term view

without regard to the long-term & and forget that the asylum seekers are far more craftier than official-dom care to think.

old hippy · 02-10-2012 12:24pm

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

so it don't bother you that after attaining Irish citizenship, they will

subsequently bring over their large, sprawling extended families; siblings,

perhaps multiple spouses (wives), in-laws, ever growing numbers of

grandchildren , the works...As we all tend to take the short-term view

without regard to the long-term & and forget that the asylum seekers are far more craftier than official-dom care to think.

Do you think if you post the myths repeatedly it all becomes true?

Does this apply to all immigrants?

My wife hasn't brought over her family. She once thought of obtaining an Irish passport but I persuaded her not to besmirch her culture

Bannasidhe · 02-10-2012 12:37pm

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

so it don't bother you that after attaining Irish citizenship, they will

subsequently bring over their large, sprawling extended families; siblings,

perhaps multiple spouses (wives), in-laws, ever growing numbers of

grandchildren , the works...As we all tend to take the short-term view

without regard to the long-term & and forget that the asylum seekers are far more craftier than official-dom care to think.

What - you mean like the large sprawling family I have in the US?

Irish Catholics breed like rabbits- everyone knows that.

First widowed great-granny went - then she brought her daughter who married another Paddy and had a zillion children who all have children.

As if that wasn't bad enough - 3 of the children of the daughter Great-Granny left in Ireland followed their granny and auntie to the US and had a bazillion children so that now we have taken over large swathes of eastern Massachusetts and totally infiltrated the Democratic Party in the region.

We have opened sub-branches in Southern California and Northern Florida as the weather is better there.

Then there is the branch in England and Switzerland....

long range shooter · 02-10-2012 1:21pm

old hippy wrote: »

Just meeting flippancy with flippancy. I enjoyed my stay in Oslo, Bergen and the Lofoten Islands and saw plenty of cultures rubbing along well together. A Mexican lady in the tourist office who's lived in Norway for years was very entertaining. And everyone was very helpful and friendly. Nothing soft about that, at all.

Nice to hear that you enjoyed your stay in Norway,i have to admit i share the same experience in Ireland after living here for 12 years.
But that doesnt help the fact that Norway have been to soft in their immigration politics,and its going to be on the agenda in next years elections.

Nodin · 02-10-2012 2:59pm

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

so it don't bother you that after attaining Irish citizenship, they will

subsequently ..............

Unless you've very specific proof of your allegations in relation to asylum seekers in this country, please don't waste my time with them.

Nodin · 02-10-2012 3:00pm

old hippy wrote: »

She once thought of obtaining an Irish passport but I persuaded her not to besmirch her culture

Now, now.

Nodin · 02-10-2012 3:02pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What - you mean like (......)Northern Florida as the weather is better there.

Then there is the branch in England and Switzerland....

Dear god, imagine the drunken chaos...on both coasts of the states. The place will collapse in a drunken riverdance apocalypse of dodgy planning permissions and rezoning malfesance.

Bannasidhe · 02-10-2012 3:45pm

Nodin wrote: »

Dear god, imagine the drunken chaos...on both coasts of the states. The place will collapse in a drunken riverdance apocalypse of dodgy planning permissions and rezoning malfesance.

I suspect a family feud between the 'Fitchburg' and the 'Holyoke' cousins for control of the Democratic vote spilled over into Florida and California and may account for Romney, Schwarzenegger and Bush as governors.

old hippy · 02-10-2012 5:45pm

Nodin wrote: »

Now, now.

I know, I know

Duzzer · 13-10-2012 9:02pm

af_thefragile wrote: »

You'ld probably do the same if you were in their place too.
Don't judge, its just human nature to want a better life.
Same reason why the Irish move to USA/Australia etc.

Just because they're a different colour doesn't make them any lesser human.

If I was in danger I'd get to the closest place of safety. The Irish that went to america and Australia had to work. There was no social welfare to keep them going. The other thing is that america and Australia are countries where everybody in is an immigrant except the aborigines and Indians, so trying to compare Irish immigrants to "asylum seekers" doesn't stack up.

seamie87 · 14-10-2012 1:21am

MrMatisse wrote: »

Its disgusting stupid and should not be shrouded in any other language.

Yes, Enoch Powell, a man who was the youngest professor in the british empire, then became the youngest brigadier general in the british army, then lived in india was "stupid" and ignorant and less well informed than the typical modern liberal.

Nodin · 14-10-2012 7:02am

seamie87 wrote: »

Yes, Enoch Powell, a man who was the youngest professor in the british empire, then became the youngest brigadier general in the british army, then lived in india was "stupid" and ignorant and less well informed than the typical modern liberal.

So you're saying what, exactly?

14-10-2012 10:32am

Some years ago I read 'Like The Roman: The Life of Enoch Powell' by Simon Heffer.
Why did I do such a thing?
Well as someone 'of the Left', I've always believed in the concept of 'know your enemy'.
It was a great read, and Simon Heffer is a great writer, funny too.

Having read the book I concluded that Powell was a visionary, but also mad.
As I said on another thread, when used to describe someone, the words 'visionary' and 'mad' are not mutually exclusive, they're often symbiotic.

So was he academically brilliant, a consummate multilinguist, a man of principal?
Yes, yes and yes.

Was he a racist?
In my opinion, a hugh big, fat as you like in neon lights.
YES

Show Time · 14-10-2012 12:05pm

seamie87 wrote: »

Yes, Enoch Powell, a man who was the youngest professor in the british empire, then became the youngest brigadier general in the british army, then lived in india was "stupid" and ignorant and less well informed than the typical modern liberal.

All that time as a general in India paid off well by turning him into a racist.

old hippy · 15-10-2012 12:43pm

seamie87 wrote: »

Yes, Enoch Powell, a man who was the youngest professor in the british empire, then became the youngest brigadier general in the british army, then lived in india was "stupid" and ignorant and less well informed than the typical modern liberal.

It always amazes me when we have people on here, quoting Churchill, praising the likes of Powell or lamenting Thatcher.

What brought down your precious "Empire" was arrogance and the bloody minded belief that you were somehow, superior to the rest of the world.

You weren't. Now get over it.

summerskin · 15-10-2012 12:48pm

old hippy wrote: »

It always amazes me when we have people on here, quoting Churchill, praising the likes of Powell or lamenting Thatcher.

What brought down your precious "Empire" was arrogance and the bloody minded belief that you were somehow, superior to the rest of the world.

You weren't. Now get over it.

What makes you think the poster there is British? Or are you showing your own small-mindedness?

Only one post there smacks of arrogance and superiority, really...

golden lane · 15-10-2012 12:50pm

old hippy wrote: »

It always amazes me when we have people on here, quoting Churchill, praising the likes of Powell or lamenting Thatcher.

What brought down your precious "Empire" was arrogance and the bloody minded belief that you were somehow, superior to the rest of the world.

You weren't. Now get over it.

who on earth is ......"you"......

empires make people rich......not everybody of course.....

every country in eorope, had or tried to have an empire.......get over it!!!!!

old hippy · 15-10-2012 12:55pm

summerskin wrote: »

What makes you think the poster there is British? Or are you showing your own small-mindedness?

Only one post there smacks of arrogance and superiority, really...

I didn't mention anyone being "British", did I? :rolleyes:

There's people here who have a hankering for the Empire - but I never said they were British.

FWIW, I live in London and love it. But hold no truck with the diseased mind of Powell, the Black and Tans master & would be Kurds gasser Churchill and the community destroying mammon worshipping Thatcher.

Over to you

Bannasidhe · 15-10-2012 12:56pm

golden lane wrote: »

who on earth is ......"you"......

empires make people rich......not everybody of course.....

every country in eorope, had or tried to have an empire.......get over it!!!!!

Really? I'd love to hear all about Switzerland's empire and when we've done that can we discuss Norway and Finland's empires next?
Then lets do Romania's and Serbia's and Luxemburg's ...

summerskin · 15-10-2012 1:05pm

old hippy wrote: »

I didn't mention anyone being "British", did I? :rolleyes:

There's people here who have a hankering for the Empire - but I never said they were British.

FWIW, I live in London and love it. But hold no truck with the diseased mind of Powell, the Black and Tans master & would be Kurds gasser Churchill and the community destroying mammon worshipping Thatcher.

Over to you

it was how you referred to is as "your empire".

FWIW I'm British and have no time for Powell at all.

I am however booking a day off after Thatcher dies. Not to mourn her, but to mourn those people who had their lives destroyed by her.

As it is, I've seen the plans for her grave. The dancefloor is surprisingly small.

golden lane · 15-10-2012 1:05pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Really? I'd love to hear all about Switzerland's empire and when we've done that can we discuss Norway and Finland's empires next?
Then lets do Romania's and Serbia's and Luxemburg's ...[/Q

read your history.........all of it......

and of course....the post you replied to......

don't forget about, when ireland invaded england in the tenth century.......

and the normans (northmen) invaded england, and ireland.....

and the helvetians......

and when roumania invaded russia.....fairly recent, was that one....hoping to pick up the spoils that the germans didn't want......

and when luxumbourg was part of the belgae tribe.......

yes, they have all been at it.......

summerskin · 15-10-2012 1:07pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Really? I'd love to hear all about Switzerland's empire and when we've done that can we discuss Norway and Finland's empires next?
Then lets do Romania's and Serbia's and Luxemburg's ...

Switzerland's empire was financial. Dirt money hoarded by corrupt bankers.

As for Norway.... Vikings!

enricoh · 15-10-2012 1:09pm

i've a friend that hails from luton and he cant walk through large areas of that city on his own basically because he's white. not a skinhead or chav etc and he says many of the towns n cities around him are the same.
if thats multicultural progress count me out

Bannasidhe · 15-10-2012 1:11pm

golden lane wrote: »

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Really? I'd love to hear all about Switzerland's empire and when we've done that can we discuss Norway and Finland's empires next?
Then lets do Romania's and Serbia's and Luxemburg's ...[/Q

read your history.........all of it......

and of course....the post you replied to......

don't forget about, when ireland invaded england in the tenth century.......

and the normans (northmen) invaded england, and ireland.....

and the helvetians......

and when roumania invaded russia.....fairly recent, was that one....hoping to pick up the spoils that the germans didn't want......

and when luxumbourg was part of the belgae tribe.......

yes, they have all been at it.......

I've not only read history I lecture in History so why don't you supply some links (academic please, not wiki) as apparently all my years of study and lecturing on empire building and imperialism seems to have left me deficient in the field of makey-up pseudo-history.

- btw 'invasion' does not = empire.

old hippy · 15-10-2012 1:11pm

summerskin wrote: »

it was how you referred to is as "your empire".

FWIW I'm British and have no time for Powell at all.

I am however booking a day off after Thatcher dies. Not to mourn her, but to mourn those people who had their lives destroyed by her.

As it is, I've seen the plans for her grave. The dancefloor is surprisingly small.

Fair enough, I've heard there will be parties up and down the nation. As much as I loathe the old witch, I won't be at any of them but I might raise a glass to remember those who were affected (and still are) by her toxic legacy.

There's plenty of Empire lovers in Ireland. I have as little time for them as the rampant flag wavers

summerskin · 15-10-2012 1:11pm

There are parts of Dublin, Limerick etc that I can't safely walk through alone, and they are definitely not multi-cultural. What's the difference?

old hippy · 15-10-2012 1:12pm

enricoh wrote: »

i've a friend that hails from luton and he cant walk through large areas of that city on his own basically because he's white. not a skinhead or chav etc and he says many of the towns n cities around him are the same.
if thats multicultural progress count me out

I'm sure you'll be sorely missed :rolleyes:

golden lane · 15-10-2012 1:13pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Really? I'd love to hear all about Switzerland's empire and when we've done that can we discuss Norway and Finland's empires next?
Then lets do Romania's and Serbia's and Luxemburg's ...

well, it's all available.......get reading....it's called history.....

very interesting.

Bannasidhe · 15-10-2012 1:15pm

golden lane wrote: »

well, it's all available.......get reading....it's called history.....

very interesting.

Advice you need to follow yourself rather then give out me thinks.

Can't find any academic links then?

token101 · 15-10-2012 1:22pm

golden lane wrote: »

well, it's not available at all.......so you can't get reading....because it's called history total bollocks.....

not very interesting.

I've never heard of the Swiss Empire to be honest.

enricoh · 15-10-2012 1:22pm

nah i'm staying ta, but passing the dole office i notice the benefits of multiculturalism more n more in ireland.
smoke a spliff there n it'll all be sorted

old hippy · 16-10-2012 12:20pm

enricoh wrote: »

nah i'm staying ta, but passing the dole office i notice the benefits of multiculturalism more n more in ireland.
smoke a spliff there n it'll all be sorted

You'll have to explain that one, please

hooradiation · 16-10-2012 12:23pm

summerskin wrote: »

There are parts of Dublin, Limerick etc that I can't safely walk through alone, and they are definitely not multi-cultural. What's the difference?

It runs against the narrative of "multiculturalism is bad because...foreigners", I'd imagine

Time to re evaluate enoch powells "rivers of blood" speech

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