Social Welfare Tenant Disaster

Carriexx

HI - can someone please give me advice here.

I rented out my apartment to a girl and her daughter on social welfare. She said she would supply the €700 deposit herself on the day of moving in. She gave me a €150 security deposit. On day prior to her moving in, i was going to be away the next day so I gave her the key and said I would be over the next evening ( as she said she would have the rest of the deposit the next day ) On the next evening she said the social would come out and oversee apartment on the following day and pay deposit , i said fine. Then when social came they said they would send cheque at end of month but she said she would get it to me the following week - as i said this had been our agreement! I have so far got another €150 & €130 off her. She is there 3 weeks now.

I am constantly chasing her - she wont ring me when she says she will.

She said the rent would be lodged by the social yesterday - nothing has arrived. I have said I am considering ending the lease.

I actually cant afford to not have all this money, and her lies are too much for me now. Its like when I am talking to her she is saying I will definetely call you tomorrow, no problem. And then she just doesnt call and when i ask her - no excuses , just ah well i forgot.

Anybody have social welfare tenants - are the payments always bad like this?

What are my options?

Thanks

Yawns

This is the main thing that pops up again and again and again.

If a person on RA doesn't have the deposit and first months rent in hand when they go to sign the lease and collect the keys, walk away. Most of the time they are the worst case Rent Allowance tenants. Rent Allowance is only paid in arrears by the way so she won't receive any money from them until the end of the month every month.

The good tenants will generally be like normal private renting tenants. Deposit and months rent as lease is signed. It shows they can save even on low incomes and will have money for the rent. Then when the 1st months rent allowance comes in, cos they paid out of their own pocket they can use that as the second month. That way the rent is always paid in advance as it should on the agreed date. It's a simple thing that many people overlook. If you agree to take it in installments, it generally turns out the way it is now. You'll get it bit by bit and always a tale about waiting from social welfare office or they haven't gotten it yet, but will next week.

Rent Allowance always gets paid in arrears. Remember that when she's telling you next month that she hasn't gotten it yet but is expecting it at the end of the week. It's usually paid into the bank account on the last Thursday of the month btw.

Carriexx

Thanks Yawms, I know its a mess. So she moved in Sept 4th - does that mean they pay a month in arrears - will i get it this month ? or end of next month?

Yawns

She moved in the 24th. If she's paid by bank account she prob won't get paid until last Thursday in October. That's only if all the documentation is sent in and been processed. Some people wait for a few months before getting Rent Allowance paid to them. They get it all backdated but the ban tenants won't pay you in the mean time. The good ones will pay the rent on time anyway.

I know a couple who were as bad as tenants could be. They didn't get it sorted for about 5 months and didn't pay anything in the mean time. There are good people out there too on Rent Allowance so I do try not to tar but I fully understand the frustration with dealing with Rent Allowance tenants. I'm one too currently. Rent is paid on time along with all bills.

BostonB

You let someone move in without a deposit and 1 months up front. Seriously what were you thinking. RA might not get set up for months and month. The problem isn't the tenant. Its you. The tenant is taking advantage because you haven't a clue what you are doing. Maybe shes as equally clueless but I doubt it. This will only get worse. End it now. And do it properly read up on how you do it legally. And be aware how useless that process is. I hope it all works out though.

Carriexx

BostonB wrote: »

You let someone move in without a deposit and 1 months up front. Seriously what were you thinking. RA might not get set up for months and month. The problem isn't the tenant. Its you. The tenant is taking advantage because you haven't a clue what you are doing. Maybe shes as equally clueless but I doubt it. This will only get worse. End it now. And do it properly read up on how you do it legally. And be aware how useless that process is. I hope it all works out though.

Boston, thanks for that.

zef

Sometimes people get paid RA weekly, are you sure she will be getting a monthly cheque?
Also best to have the cheque made out to your bank acc. number, and not to her.
Maybe she is not taking advantage, and is stressed out over it too.
I hope you can work it out, the system is flawed in the waiting time for RA to be approved.
She might have 'rights' after being there 3 weeks with her daughter , no?

riclad

As far as i know all rent allowance tenants get paid 1 cheque monthly,IT would be incredibly complex if not impossible,to start paying rent allowance,by the week, i was on ra.
ANY landlord should expect a deposit plus 4 weeks, rent minimum ,before tenant move in.thats at least 7- 800 euro.
you can get advice from centrecare or threshold,say tenant moves in today, it may be 3 to 4 weeks before she gets the 1st cheque.
She should have got a deposit cheque in first week.

i know a landlord takes ra tenants, he gets deposit and 4 weeks rent
before you get a key to the flat.
i dont want to be rude ,but, you should understand how the ra,system works or else stick to private tenants.
depends on the rent ,the tenant on ra pays about 20 per cent, a single mother might pay ten per cent ,approx ,of the rent ,
the cheque covers the rest.
the cheque maybe sent by post or else lodged in her bank account.

i,d say most landlords who take ra, know the system inside out.
i dont know ,there maybe a delay ,it should,nt take more than six weeks to get the first cheque, in the first week,her welfare officer
should have the forms,plus bout 5 documents, bank statement etc
in order to process ,accept the application.
if theres a delay,the tenant will get all the back rent,
rent allowance,cheques, then its up to her to pay it to you.
She may be just avoiding you, cos shes waiting for cheque no1 to arrive.
you can go to the health centre or centrecare and find out how system works .
re processing ra forms.,cheques in general.
i would get a cheque once a month ,by post, always the first wednesday of the month.
i cant remember exactly, i think i got 1st cheque after 5 weeks,
there certainly was not months of delay.
i heard of some people getting the cheque 1 week late,
ie after 5 weeks ,but thats unusual ,once your claim is processed,and accepted.
i think after 2 weeks, living there, the welfare officer visited to check, i was living there,
thats standard procedure.
i,ve never heard of anyone getting a ra,cheque weekly, that would be expensive on postage ,processing,there s at least 40 thousand people on ra.

IF someones living there on ra, its crazy after 3 weeks,
to think ,oh ill give her notice to quit.

Thats why you get a large deposit, plus 4 weeks rent , as a form of insurance .
And to show the tenant is reliable.

Yawns

Some places in the country do get it weekly along with their jobseeker's allowance in the post office for example. I was going to suggest that but the OP has a location as Kildare so most likely the tenant will be dealing with the Central Rents Unit in Dublin. They do it on a monthly basis and not weekly. People in Longford get it on a weekly basis.

MistyCheese

riclad wrote: »

i,ve never heard of anyone getting a ra,cheque weekly, that would be expensive on postage ,processing,there s at least 40 thousand people on ra.

I know two people in Dublin who receive a weekly Rent Supplement cheque and lots of people who get it weekly through the Post Office.

Yawns

I have known quite a number of people who were waiting a number of months for RA to kick in. It can be pretty straight forward. I did find that when I was in Longford it was a few basic forms and some info submitted and that was that. In Kildare when dealing with the Central Rents Unit, it was a lot more info looked for and things such as a solicitor's letter stating who owned the house.

If I couldn't give a solicitor's letter, I needed a copy of the deeds or mortgage. As if any LL would give a prospective tenant a copy of deeds or mortgage agreement...

riclad

I looked at a ra,form a few months ago, ,it says letter from bank stating landlord has a mortgage on the house, or copy of the deeds,
ie landlord should have a letter ,saying ,i paid x amount on the mortgage in 2011.
perhaps some landlords don,t take ra cos of the extra paperwork involved.
NO one is forced to take on a ra tenant,
the councils also have a scheme they get a tenant,for say 2 years,
the council gaurantees the rent, they choose the tenant.
a letter saying joe bloggs paid interest on mortgage to bank x,


on house x in 2011 would probably be enough.
maybe different areas ,countys have slightly different
ra procedures.
i think its natural you take a tenant on ra ,there might be some delay in the first month.
Thats why you ask for a large deposit.
i dont think they require the full mortgage agreement.
i,d see no point in them sending out ra cheques to
every tenant ,every week,
it seems very unnecessary.i,m not saying it doesnt happen.
i think after 3 weeks ,is very early to be panic, ing about this.
the welfare officer needs to know the landlord owns or has a mortgage
on the house,
IN order to verify this is a legal tenancy,and to prevent fraud.

BostonB

riclad wrote: »

...
NO one is forced to take on a ra tenant, ....

One tactic I've seen is to pay the deposit the first couple of months rent then tell the LL the need to claim RA. At which point the LL can't refuse it.

Pkiernan

OP:

You are about to be financially screwed. You will find out how hard it is for a LL to evict a scumbag tenant.

You must now issue in writing a 14 day notice of arrears. The tenant has 14 days to pay the arrears.

After the 14 days has elapsed, if the rent has not been paid, you can serve a 28 day notice of of termination of the tenancy.

At this point if the tenant still refuses to leave, you are in a mess, as it will typically take over a year to get them out during which time they will probably not be paying you a penny in rent.

Get on the the PRTB immediately.

Visit irishlandlord.com asap for more info on how to get the above notices correct (they have to be right, otherwise they are not valid notices).

Good luck getting this filth out of your house. Remember you experience and relate it to any left wing politicians who come looking for your vote in the future.

Pkiernan

Note that termination of tenancy does not mean eviction - eviction can only happen after the tenancy has been terminated.

Goodshape

Pkiernan wrote: »

...a scumbag tenant..

...

Good luck getting this filth out of your house.

That's harsh. You have no idea who this girl is except that she's unable to pay rent for herself and her daughter.

That doesn't change the landlords position ( = the subject of this thread), but scumbag filth? Bit harsh.

edellc

^^^^

a bit harsh...its down right disgusting tbh

we are hearing one side of this story and to call someone by such derogatory names is well below par and speaks volumes about the type of person the poster is....

As for you question OP

If your lease that you issued says rent paid monthly then the rent is paid in this way and its paid the last thursday of the month into the post office or if your tenant is a lone parent then it can be paid into her bank account

however if your lease says weekly then the RA will be issued weekly

what you have to remember is that it is up to you to vet your tenants and its your judgement if they can pay rent or not.

I have been both a private and RA tenant and regardless of which I am I always have my mths rent and deposit up front, I am always honest with the landlord about rent allowance if I am in need of it and every time it has been dealt with within the first month that I have been there so there has never been a delay in paying my rent and in that regard I am just like any other private paying tenant.

Speaking as a mother, I know that my child is my priority and having a home for him is the most important thing on my agenda so there is no way that I would jeopardise this by giving the landlord the run around. She may be dong exactly as she said and waiting for the cheque to be issued and is terrified of you ringing every day looking for something that isnt going to arrive until next week. Likewise I understand that you cant be out of pocket but if your going to rent to RA tenants then you should educate yourself as to how the system works and request a months rent and deposit up front anyway.

She could be genuine or she could be playing you, but you are the one that vetted her and you should be able to tell if someone is a genuine or not, but I do think the majority of RA tenants are honest but the length of time it takes the system to work gives them a bad name which is unfortunate as with the economy the way it is there are plenty people who are in need of such help through no fault of their own and to tar them all with comments like the previous poster is wrong

Carriexx

Hi - thanks all for your replies. I asked her yesterday for a letter from social to say money was on its way. SHe turned off her phone. So i called central rents - and she has never given in any forms relating to my apartment she is receviing a rent to a proerty in dublin. So she has lied saying it would be in the bank account on tuesday - as they know nothing about it. Central rents told me to report her to her office and gave me the number. She has not turned her phone on since and didnt come home until approx 11 last night ( I live in the same block )

Im too trusting of people - please dont make me feel like sh*t over this - i already do...but she IS NOT going to be living in my apartment rent free!!

djimi

Has she signed a fixed term lease? If not then you can terminate the tenancy for any reason in the first 6 months. If this is an option for you then you may be wise to consider it...

Yawns

Unfortunate to hear this turn of events. At least you now see the error about how to conduct a tenancy be it RA or private. The genuine ones will have a deposit and months rent. Some genuine people may not be able to have it but if they don't then unfortunately I would be tough in those cases even if genuine and say no.

The prick kind of tenants generally won't have the deposit or savings up front. Most of them won't. Of course some may have it and still turn out to be bad tenants but that's a risk regardless. They generally won't have it because they can't save or stop pissing money against the wall. As someone mentioned above, when they were receiving the RA, it would appear that they are a private renting tenant because the rent was never late. I'm like that and so are a hell of a lot of good people who rely on the RA. I would generally save up the rent during the month and not get a lot of stuff during those weeks. When the money comes through at the end of the month I would then fill the chest freezer etc. I generally get by on about €30 - €40 each week for bread, milk etc. Chest freezer full for the most part at the end of the month to cover food for the next month. Rent and bills are all paid from weekly money.

If you signed a fixed term lease then it could get tricky if this girl knows what she's entitled to etc. Follow the advice above about notices and do not do anything rash like chucking her stuff and changing the locks. If you do that you can be brought to court where you will lose and end up paying her thousands. It has happened, even with tenants not paying rent.

Monty Burnz

Carriexx wrote: »

Hi - thanks all for your replies. I asked her yesterday for a letter from social to say money was on its way. SHe turned off her phone. So i called central rents - and she has never given in any forms relating to my apartment she is receviing a rent to a proerty in dublin. So she has lied saying it would be in the bank account on tuesday - as they know nothing about it. Central rents told me to report her to her office and gave me the number. She has not turned her phone on since and didnt come home until approx 11 last night ( I live in the same block )

Im too trusting of people - please dont make me feel like sh*t over this - i already do...but she IS NOT going to be living in my apartment rent free!!

Summary: it turns out she is a scumbag.

Any chance of landlords banding together and creating a register of renters? I've talked about it before here - I don't understand why those who rely on rental income don't do it.

riclad

if i was a landlord i wouldn,t take on anyone, unless
i get deposit and 4 weeks rent.
but i know some landlords outside dublin depend on
ra clients,to pay the mortgage.

Jarren

OP

you don't need that hassle.

Follow the proper procedures and get rid off her asap

djimi

Jarren wrote: »

OP

you don't need that hassle.

Follow the proper procedures and get rid off her asap

Unfortunately for the OP the hassle has already started. Even following proper procedure it could take months to get rid of such a tenant.

zombiepaw

The HSE can write cheques for the unemployed covering their deposit, only asking that they get it back when tenancy is over. It can be a laborious process sometimes. maybe this is what your tenant was waiting when first moving in.

Zamboni

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Any chance of landlords banding together and creating a register of renters? I've talked about it before here - I don't understand why those who rely on rental income don't do it.

I can only imagine the legal issues arising from data protection alone.

djimi

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Any chance of landlords banding together and creating a register of renters? I've talked about it before here - I don't understand why those who rely on rental income don't do it.

Surely if you look for references and follow up on them properly then this should not be required?

BostonB

djimi wrote: »

Surely if you look for references and follow up on them properly then this should not be required?

Unfortunately people who do these kinda scams are adept at creating believable references, one I had experience went so far as to work in a charity for a while to use as on of their references, and indeed had a number of people who all vouched from them, but all got taken advantage of in one form or another.

djimi

BostonB wrote: »

Unfortunately people who do these kinda scams are adept at creating believable references, one I had experience went so far as to work in a charity for a while to use as on of their references, and indeed had a number of people who all vouched from them, but all got taken advantage of in one form or another.

Ouch. Ive heard of people putting their mates down as references but thats just ridiculous.

Carriexx

The money still not arrived in bank - she says she will get social to contact me in the morning telling me it has been lodged....Im not holding my breath for that call.......

goodie2shoes

riclad wrote: »

if i was a landlord i wouldn,t take on anyone, unless
i get deposit and 4 weeks rent.
but i know some landlords outside dublin depend on
ra clients,to pay the mortgage.

• NEVER EVER accept RA.
• NEVER rent to people who offer you cash and insist on moving in immediately.
• ALWAYS insist on (at least) 1 month's deposit & 1 month in advance. personally if it's a nice place i'ld insist on 2 month's deposit.
• check ALL references.
• INTERVIEW all potential tenants. (if you get a bad vibe/gut feeling, decline).

my experience has been, if the tenancy starts off badly, the situation rarely improves. cut your losses immediately and get rid.

go down the legal route, and exhaust all avenues available.
failing that, a friend of mine knows a few lads who "will assist her with moving"