Social Welfare Tenant Disaster

goodie2shoes

Carriexx wrote: »

The money still not arrived in bank - she says she will get social to contact me in the morning telling me it has been lodged....Im not holding my breath for that call.......

been there.
she's stringing you along.
next thing it'll be "the dog ate it":rolleyes:

djimi

goodie2shoes wrote: »

if it's a nice place i'ld insist on 2 month's deposit.

Has anyone ever agreed to that for you? I dont know many renters who agree to pay two months deposit; not considering how many cowboys there are out there who wont give back the one month deposit, let alone two months... Its also just not something you expect to be asked for, and I doubt many people prepare for it.

goodie2shoes wrote: »

cut your losses immediately and get rid.

Easier said than done. Once a fixed term lease is signed its very hard for a landlord to break it. An illegal eviction, no matter how bad the tenant may be, can prove extremely costly for the landlord should the tenant take a case against them. The laws in this country are stacked very much in favour of the tenant; rightly so for the most part, but it can lead to ridiculous situations where it is protecting the utter scum who know how to fully exploit it to get get away with paying as little rent as possible, and in a lot of cases to live somewhere rent free for months.

murphaph

goodie2shoes wrote: »

• NEVER EVER accept RA.
• NEVER rent to people who offer you cash and insist on moving in immediately.
• ALWAYS insist on (at least) 1 month's deposit & 1 month in advance. personally if it's a nice place i'ld insist on 2 month's deposit.
• check ALL references.
• INTERVIEW all potential tenants. (if you get a bad vibe/gut feeling, decline).

Agree with all that except NEVER renting to RS (I preume you mean RS, not RA).

I have super RS tenants for the last 4 years who came to me only because their previous landlord was selling up. He vouched for them and I am delighted I took them. Not once in 4 years have I had to chase them for any money. They keep the house spotless and are no bother to the neighbours etc. Model tenants basically.

If someone on RS comes to you with good references and a solid reason for leaving last accomodation and they have the gumption to have saved the deposit and rent in advance then there's a good bet they will be ok tenants.

I would NEVER rent to anyone who didn't have the deposit and rent in advance however. That is asking for trouble.

To the OP: serve the legal noticees and try to get her out asap. You might be lucky (if she really is renting another property in the city) and she might move back to it without a fuss. If you are unlucky, you could be in for a long drawn out process which might be better to avoid (the non-legal way can easily be cheaper, even with the fines, than waiting for legal possession, but that's hard to guess at the outset. You need to see if you think she'll stay on indefinitely once you issues your notices)

edellc

goodie2shoes wrote: »

• NEVER EVER accept RA.
  a bit judgemental there aren't you, most RS tenants are fine and above board as long as you have your mths rent in advance and deposit then there is no difference between RS tenant and private tenants
  
  
• NEVER rent to people who offer you cash and insist on moving in immediately.
  no worry with cash as for immediately maybe it could be an issue but with references and a valid reason as to why then I dont see an issue
  
  ALWAYS insist on (at least) 1 month's deposit & 1 month in advance. personally if it's a nice place i'ld insist on 2 month's deposit.
  a months rent thats all fine by two and your having a laugh, way to many dodgy landlords who try deduct money for no valid reason
  
  [*]check ALL references.
  no problem there
  
  [*]INTERVIEW all potential tenants. (if you get a bad vibe/gut feeling, decline).
  that should go without saying tbh

goodie2shoes

@djimi

agreed. most tenants will not give 2 month's deposit.
but then do you really want most tenants?
i'ld rather leave my places vacant for 6 months than accept some tenants.

there are a number of circumstances a landlord can invoke in order to issue an eviction notice. my favourite is "i've decided to move into the place myself, so you need to leave". it works.;)

goodie2shoes

murphaph wrote: »

Agree with all that except NEVER renting to RS (I preume you mean RS, not RA).

RS, RA whatever? The minute you hear the question "will ya accept rent allowance/supplement ......" my advice is to hang up.

glad u have had a good experience with them. there are exceptions to every rule i suppose.

Carriexx

Op here.
In my lease I hate stipulated if rent is not paid landlord is entitled to take property back at anytime.
I am not paying for her to live there.
I want to give her one weeks notice to leave tomorrow, her parents live down road. It is not my responsibility to pay for someone to live in my apartment. She can f off

goodie2shoes

Carriexx wrote: »

Op here.
In my lease I hate stipulated if rent is not paid landlord is entitled to take property back at anytime.
I am not paying for her to live there.
I want to give her one weeks notice to leave tomorrow, her parents live down road. It is not my responsibility to pay for someone to live in my apartment. She can f off

OP i wouldn't do that just yet without first getting good legal advice. despite what the tenancy agreement says, tenants have basic rights which cannot be signed away. if you attempt to ride roughshod over these rights you WILL get yourself into bother.
you might want to contact the citizen advice bureau &/or threshold also. just pretend you are the tenant and ask for their advice.

do not be discouraged, just remain calm and determined to rectify this situation.
Good Luck!

djimi

Carriexx wrote: »

Op here.
In my lease I hate stipulated if rent is not paid landlord is entitled to take property back at anytime.
I am not paying for her to live there.
I want to give her one weeks notice to leave tomorrow, her parents live down road. It is not my responsibility to pay for someone to live in my apartment. She can f off

You can not put something into the lease that goes against the residential tenancy act, and even is she signed it it does not make it legal. You are not entitled to take it back at any time and you are not legally allowed to give her one weeks notice to leave. I know that she is taking the piss but if you dont follow proper eviction procedure and look to evict her illegally then you are leaving yourself open to a massive fine if she knows what she is at and takes a case against you with the PRTB (and believe me, these people usually know the law inside out).

Carriexx

If admitted there was a problem, I would help her. I just can't take the lies anymore...

djimi

goodie2shoes wrote: »

@djimi

agreed. most tenants will not give 2 month's deposit.
but then do you really want most tenants?
i'ld rather leave my places vacant for 6 months than accept some tenants.

there are a number of circumstances a landlord can invoke in order to issue an eviction notice. my favourite is "i've decided to move into the place myself, so you need to leave". it works.;)

Most tenants are fine, just like most landlords are fine; we usually only hear the horror stories, but as with anything of this nature you never hear or have any reason to hear about the good tenants/landlords, who Im sure outweigh the bad ones many times over.

If you can afford to be picky then more power to you, but stipulating that you want 2 months deposit is basically cutting off the majority of the rental market to you, as most people will not even give your ad a second glance.

goat2

djimi wrote: »

Has anyone ever agreed to that for you? I dont know many renters who agree to pay two months deposit; not considering how many cowboys there are out there who wont give back the one month deposit, let alone two months... Its also just not something you expect to be asked for, and I doubt many people prepare for it.Easier said than done. Once a fixed term lease is signed its very hard for a landlord to break it. An illegal eviction, no matter how bad the tenant may be, can prove extremely costly for the landlord should the tenant take a case against them. The laws in this country are stacked very much in favour of the tenant; rightly so for the most part, but it can lead to ridiculous situations where it is protecting the utter scum who know how to fully exploit it to get get away with paying as little rent as possible, and in a lot of cases to live somewhere rent free for months.

and what i also understand, you will not be able to evict her due to also making a child homeless,
i have heard that it is a sticky situation when there is a child also, her fight to stay will be stronger, and she can string you out for a long time,

can anybody else enlighten me to this, or have more information of tenancy when a child is also in the picture.

Grolschevik

Carriexx wrote: »

Op here.
In my lease I hate stipulated if rent is not paid landlord is entitled to take property back at anytime.
I am not paying for her to live there.
I want to give her one weeks notice to leave tomorrow, her parents live down road. It is not my responsibility to pay for someone to live in my apartment. She can f off

So there is a lease? A year, yeah?

It doesn't matter what you put in it, nobody can be legally bound to a document where they effectively contract their statutory rights away, no matter what the thing she signed said.

Talk to a solicitor, FLAC, your local Citizens' Information, your council, or even Threshold before you do something that will see you breaking the law and thus becoming, in the eyes of the system, the bad guy.

sunnysoutheast

Carriexx wrote: »

Op here.
In my lease I hate stipulated if rent is not paid landlord is entitled to take property back at anytime.
I am not paying for her to live there.
I want to give her one weeks notice to leave tomorrow, her parents live down road. It is not my responsibility to pay for someone to live in my apartment. She can f off

Unfortunately the tenancy will still be subject to the terms of the RTA and the entire arrangement is ridiculously biased towards the tenant. If you do not follow the exact legal process to the letter you may find you will eventually have to pay the tenant for the privilege of living in your apartment for months rent-free.

Good luck with it anyway.

drunkmonkey

She's not even there a month, she has not paid the agreed amount. She's constantly told lies. Remove here from your property straight away. If she want's to go down a legal route let her just keep a record of everything and deal with it if it ever happens. Keep the receipts for what she has paid. Refund her if it's possible.

goat2

i think you have to look up evicting a person when there is a child involved, as this is a bit different,
this also happened to me yrs ago, and i was told at the time that i could not remove a person who has a minor from my property that easy, as they had stronger rights,
has any others on here heard of this.
i had to put up with them for six months, and they just paid half rent per week, better half than none, and i knew i would have lost more than gained if i went down the solicitor route, that could be long drawn out, and while waiting for things to come to court i was told, that the tenant could stop paying until a verdict came through, so i had no choice, it would have been very costly

littleredspot

Op, there is an incredible amount of bad and illegal advice in this thread (and some good) you should walk away from this thread quicker than you walk away from your problem tenant.

goat2

littleredspot wrote: »

Op, there is an incredible amount of bad and illegal advice in this thread (and some good) you should walk away from this thread quicker than you walk away from your problem tenant.

you say there is bad advice,
i am only putting a problem which was similar that i had with a tenant, and the advice that i received, but that was 15 yrs ago, maybe laws are different since

areyawell

Leave it till the first of the month and see if she pays up, if not get rid on the 2nd

Yawns

OP it's all well and good people telling you to get rid of her. However in legal terms it will not happen soon so don't start trying to show who's boss so to speak. Have a word about the rent and when it's 14 days over, hand deliver them a written notice. Do it above board and proper. There is a number of cases where people were deemed illegally evicted even without paying rent, the result was the LL paying sums ranging in the region of €20k.

People will tell you to change the locks etc do not do this. She's signed a lease and it is now officially her home and the child's home. That is how the law will look at it. It's your house/apartment but it's their family home now. So take the polite but firm route instead. try to avoid legal confrontations as she may drag her heels in. Go have a chat and explain it was supposed to be x amount on day 1 and you are not happy. Tell her if she vacates immediately you will give her the deposit back that she has paid thus far minus the rent for 1 week or if you want shot fast give it all back. Talk to her parents as you said they were close by if you must. If you go legal it could take months but most likely it will take a year or more just to get a court ordered eviction after which you must still get them out of your house. If it comes to a court ordered eviction, these type of people still drag it out for another few weeks / months.

goodie2shoes

areyawell wrote: »

Leave it till the first of the month and see if she pays up, if not get rid on the 2nd

regardless of whether she's paid the rent or not, you're gonna have to give her 28 days Notice to Quit (unless she's threatened you, or been involved in serious anti-social behaviour in which case 7 days notice will suffice. report all such matters to the Gardai in order to cover your ass).

assuming the latter does not apply (anti-social/threatening behaviour) 28 day notice is required. you do not need to specify why, as she's not there 6 months. after that she must get a valid reason. (ie selling the property, moving in yourself, refurbishment of the property).

but make sure you go about it in the proper manner, proper letter, dates etc. (if you're new to this you might want to engage the services of a Solc., but personally i don't think there's any need to).
if after the 28 day period she refuses to leave, then you will need to apply to the courts to have her removed.
you may be entitled to compensation, but given her status i wouldn't bank on it. (that's why i don't like Social Welfare folk. nuthin personal).

Yawns

OP it might best to have a quick read of this just to let you know to steer clear of doing anything drastic.

http://www.threshold.ie/download/pdf/illegal_evictions_a_brief_guide.pdf

goat2

Yawns wrote: »

OP it's all well and good people telling you to get rid of her. However in legal terms it will not happen soon so don't start trying to show who's boss so to speak. Have a word about the rent and when it's 14 days over, hand deliver them a written notice. Do it above board and proper. There is a number of cases where people were deemed illegally evicted even without paying rent, the result was the LL paying sums ranging in the region of €20k.

People will tell you to change the locks etc do not do this. She's signed a lease and it is now officially her home and the child's home. That is how the law will look at it. It's your house/apartment but it's their family home now. So take the polite but firm route instead. try to avoid legal confrontations as she may drag her heels in. Go have a chat and explain it was supposed to be x amount on day 1 and you are not happy. Tell her if she vacates immediately you will give her the deposit back that she has paid thus far minus the rent for 1 week or if you want shot fast give it all back. Talk to her parents as you said they were close by if you must. If you go legal it could take months but most likely it will take a year or more just to get a court ordered eviction after which you must still get them out of your house. If it comes to a court ordered eviction, these type of people still drag it out for another few weeks / months.

i had a similar story about fifteen yrs ago, and the advice above, is much like the advice i got from a solicitor friend of mine,
also the tenant told me that she could drag her heels as long as she liked and that i would have to accept her terms or go the long route of court which could drag for up to three yrs without any payments until court agreements were reached,
so i opted for the six months half rent, anything was better than nothing.

i have had people who the socail welfare were helping pay the rent, and they were sound,

goodie2shoes

goat2 wrote: »

i had a similar story about fifteen yrs ago, and the advice above, is much like the advice i got from a solicitor friend of mine,
also the tenant told me that she could drag her heels as long as she liked and that i would have to accept her terms or go the long route of court which could drag for up to three yrs without any payments until court agreements were reached,
so i opted for the six months half rent, anything was better than nothing.

i have had people who the socail welfare were helping pay the rent, and they were sound,

i agree there are many fine upstanding social welfare tenants, but i believe they are much more likely to fuuck you over. most other folk don't have the time to be bothered. they got other things to be doing with their time & energy. like work, or socialising.
also they got more (something) to lose if you decide to sue them. try suing some dole scrounger and see how far you get.:(

goat2

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i agree there are many fine upstanding social welfare tenants, but i believe they are much more likely to fuuck you over. most other folk don't have the time to be bothered. they got other things to be doing with their time & energy. like work, or socialising.
also they got more (something) to lose if you decide to sue them. try suing some dole scrounger and see how far you get.:(

i never had reason to sue, and i have had a good few people who are unemployed and on housing benefit, all sound, i only ever had one person who gave me problems, but that person gave more than me headaches i found out later, but as for the others, they respected me and i had great respect for them, as a matter of fact the person who is now renting from me is on the assistance and is there three yrs, she is a great tenant, and i hope she stay for a good while yet, dont want to be trying to find a good tenant, as it takes lots of people applying for tenancy before i get the right one,
the smallest little niggle would put me off taking a person on, as it is very easy get a tenant, but if things go bad, it is impossible, and the law is not always cut and dried.

irishgirl19

goodie2shoes wrote: »

areyawell wrote: »

Leave it till the first of the month and see if she pays up, if not get rid on the 2nd

regardless of whether she's paid the rent or not, you're gonna have to give her 28 days Notice to Quit (unless she's threatened you, or been involved in serious anti-social behaviour in which case 7 days notice will suffice. report all such matters to the Gardai in order to cover your ass).

assuming the latter does not apply (anti-social/threatening behaviour) 28 day notice is required. you do not need to specify why, as she's not there 6 months. after that she must get a valid reason. (ie selling the property, moving in yourself, refurbishment of the property).

but make sure you go about it in the proper manner, proper letter, dates etc. (if you're new to this you might want to engage the services of a Solc., but personally i don't think there's any need to).
if after the 28 day period she refuses to leave, then you will need to apply to the courts to have her removed.
you may be entitled to compensation, but given her status i wouldn't bank on it. (that's why i don't like Social Welfare folk. nuthin personal).

It was my understanding that if the tenant has a fixed tenancy agreement the landlord can not kick them out within 6 months

goodie2shoes

irishgirl19 wrote: »

It was my understanding that if the tenant has a fixed tenancy agreement the landlord can not kick them out within 6 months

within the initial 6 months a landlord can give the tenant 28 days Notice to Quit. there is no need for the landlord to give any reason.


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

the_syco

Yawns wrote: »

Do it above board and proper. There is a number of cases where people were deemed illegally evicted even without paying rent, the result was the LL paying sums ranging in the region of €20k.

Show me an Irish case that the tenant has won anywhere near that amount. Seriously. I've looked a few months back, and there has been no case in Ireland.

OP: if you can, put all the bills in her name. If you stop paying, the companies will go after you not her if the bills are in your name. Also, you can't switch off the water/electricity on the tenant, as this is not allowed in the eyes of the law.

Oh, and if she has the bills under her name, and she flees without paying them, the bills follow her.

Pkiernan

edellc wrote: »

^^^^

a bit harsh...its down right disgusting tbh

we are hearing one side of this story and to call someone by such derogatory names is well below par and speaks volumes about the type of person the poster is....

As you obviously haven't a clue about renting, I'll forgive your personal insult, and not report it to a Mod.

A tenant who doesn't pay rent is a thief, and the OP will suffer. This tenant is scum. This tenant is filth.

I hope that you will have the decency to apologise for your clearly ignorant post.
Please note the definition of ignorant: "Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular".

Please explain what type pf person you think I am.

Duiske

These situations seem to be becoming more common, and I think a simple* solution would be for the HSE to pay the full rent/deposit directly to the landlord, and deduct the tenants contribution from their social welfare benefits.
The landlord would have the rent paid in full and on time, and the tenant would not be put in the position of being tempted to use the rent allowance to pay bills or whatever.

* I say simple, but maybe there are negatives in this that I have not thought of.