Social Welfare Tenant Disaster

djimi

goodie2shoes wrote: »

within the initial 6 months a landlord can give the tenant 28 days Notice to Quit. there is no need for the landlord to give any reason.


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

This does not apply when the tenant has a fixed term lease. There are very few situations which allow a landlord to break a fixed term lease.

Carriexx

Op here.
I have a number for someone in her social welfare office so going to call them this morning, as she is actually still receiving cheques for another home.
Then I think I will give her 28 days notice this evening, only thing is she has no phone and I bet she won't be home/won't answer door.

Carriexx

Thanks for all your advice, I really have taken it on board

ronan45

OP

Cautionary Tale

I had a tenant that was getting rent allowance. long story short they pocketed the first 2 months of payments and 1 back month. The first cheques were sent direct to him in HIS name. I didnt know he had been cashing them. He spun me stories that they were delaying. Rang the SW office myself and was told off the record there were cheques cashed. MAKE BLOODY SURE YOU GET THOSE CHEQUES IN YOUR NAME OR SENT DIRECT TO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT

murphaph

Duiske wrote: »

These situations seem to be becoming more common, and I think a simple* solution would be for the HSE to pay the full rent/deposit directly to the landlord, and deduct the tenants contribution from their social welfare benefits.
The landlord would have the rent paid in full and on time, and the tenant would not be put in the position of being tempted to use the rent allowance to pay bills or whatever.

* I say simple, but maybe there are negatives in this that I have not thought of.

That's what the German social welfare system does. Landlords in some parts of Germany prefer social welfare tenants as the rent is as good as guaranteed in their bank account at the end of the month.

There's absolutely no reason why this problem with overholding (at least with RS tenants) can't be eliminated more or less overnight, if our public sector was up to it or even cared on iota.

But all landlords are evil monsters from the Victorian era, so nothing will be done. I know I've been extremely lucky with my tenants in Ireland but if prices nudge up a bit, I'll probably sell up and get out of residential letting there altogether. The system is just gone too far to one side now.

edellc

Pkiernan wrote: »

As you obviously haven't a clue about renting, I'll forgive your personal insult, and not report it to a Mod.

A tenant who doesn't pay rent is a thief, and the OP will suffer. This tenant is scum. This tenant is filth.

I hope that you will have the decency to apologise for your clearly ignorant post.
Please note the definition of ignorant: "Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular".

Please explain what type pf person you think I am.

Report my post by all means your words show the type of person you are, I feel that anyone who lowers themselves to name calling is immature, nasty and shows a lack of intelligence and to do this to someone who does not have a voice to defend themselves also shows you as a bully

Thrilled you can actually look up a dictionary considering how you have shown yourself to lack intelligence and thank you for being condescending and thinking you are better than me and trying to educate me, there really is no need

Since you did bother to trawl through the thread I suppose I shouldnt be surprised that you failed to see that my post was prior to our discovery that the tenant was not a genuine one, I will refrain from stooping to name calling and leave that to you

There has been name calling, threats to kick the tenant out NOW, take the softly softly approach and everything in between on this thread, clearly all bar your name calling are trying to be helpful, but all sending mixed messages

Op please seek the advice of threshold or a solicitor for the proper course of action to take that will not get you into any legal trouble and I hope a speedy resolution is found for you. My biggest concern is the poor child caught in the middle of all this with a possibility of being homeless, yes this is the mothers fault and responsibility but it still pulls at the heart strings.

djimi

murphaph wrote: »

That's what the German social welfare system does. Landlords in some parts of Germany prefer social welfare tenants as the rent is as good as guaranteed in their bank account at the end of the month.

There's absolutely no reason why this problem with overholding (at least with RS tenants) can't be eliminated more or less overnight, if our public sector was up to it or even cared on iota.

But all landlords are evil monsters from the Victorian era, so nothing will be done. I know I've been extremely lucky with my tenants in Ireland but if prices nudge up a bit, I'll probably sell up and get out of residential letting there altogether. The system is just gone too far to one side now.

I actually find it amazing that RA cheques arent paid directly to the landlord. There does seem to be a huge number of problems with the tenancy system in this country; the fact that a tenant can recieve a RA cheque and cash it for their own means, not pay their rent and it could take a number of years before the landlord can get them out of their property just goes to show how completely wrong the system is.

I guess the government have bigger fish to fry at the moment, but it is something that needs to be looked at seriously. A landlord keeps a tenants deposit unfairly and it can take 9+ months to get it back if a PRTB case is lodged. A scumbag moves into your house and decides to live there rent free and it can take years to sort the issue out, and if you put one foot wrong you end up paying them a large sum of money by way of a fine. The whole system is wrong.

Yawns

the_syco wrote: »

Show me an Irish case that the tenant has won anywhere near that amount. Seriously. I've looked a few months back, and there has been no case in Ireland.

OP: if you can, put all the bills in her name. If you stop paying, the companies will go after you not her if the bills are in your name. Also, you can't switch off the water/electricity on the tenant, as this is not allowed in the eyes of the law.

Oh, and if she has the bills under her name, and she flees without paying them, the bills follow her.

It's the PRTB who can award damages up to €20k.

http://www.threshold.ie/download/pdf...rief_guide.pdf

There was a person near my brother who had stopped paying rent and the landlord had their stuff chucked and locks changed. It was the LL who told us a few years later he was taken to the cleaners by the PRTB for €18k I took him at his word and don't have a case reference to show you unfortunately. But have a read of the quick guide.

the_syco

Yawns wrote: »

There was a person near my brother who had stopped paying rent and the landlord had their stuff chucked and locks changed. It was the LL who told us a few years later he was taken to the cleaners by the PRTB for €18k I took him at his word and don't have a case reference to show you unfortunately. But have a read of the quick guide.

I have read the guide before, and am not arguing that such a thing didn't happen, I'm just saying that when I looked into it myself I couldn't find any evidence. As for the PTRB; they're toothless, the person near your brother could in the end have ignored them.

Yawns

oh yes probably and for all I know he did. Just taken it from the horse's mouth so to speak. I don't have any case reference to hand nor know of one, but honestly I've never looked. Just it would be a bit silly to try remove someone and at the same time prob make a mess of it legally and drag the whole situation out more.

I do hope the OP manages to find a way out of this tho.

djimi

the_syco wrote: »

I have read the guide before, and am not arguing that such a thing didn't happen, I'm just saying that when I looked into it myself I couldn't find any evidence. As for the PTRB; they're toothless, the person near your brother could in the end have ignored them.

There have been cases posted on here where tenants were awarded amounts upwards of €20k. Whether or not the tenant ever actually saw any of that money is another thing, but there have definately been cases. Id imagine they are fairly few and far between though; to get that sort of a payout I would have thought the landlord would have had to really gone over the top.

riclad

Make sure and put the esb, gas in her name ,otherwise you could be left with a large bill.

Victor

Pkiernan wrote: »

As you obviously haven't a clue about renting, I'll forgive your personal insult, and not report it to a Mod.

A tenant who doesn't pay rent is a thief, and the OP will suffer. This tenant is scum. This tenant is filth.

I hope that you will have the decency to apologise for your clearly ignorant post.
Please note the definition of ignorant: "Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular".

Please explain what type pf person you think I am.

Cut the attitude

Moderator

the_syco

riclad wrote: »

Make sure and put the esb, gas in her name ,otherwise you could be left with a large bill.

As said above, i second this. If she doesn't agree to this, start the eviction process, as you'll know then that she intends to live there rent and bill free, and she'll bring you to court if you turn them off, esp during the winter.

djimi wrote: »

There have been cases posted on here where tenants were awarded amounts upwards of €20k

And when asked for a link of the story, it turns out to be a "I heard on the bus/from the granny/priest/politician/etc".

djimi

the_syco wrote: »

And when asked for a link of the story, it turns out to be a "I heard on the bus/from the granny/priest/politician/etc".

I think it was odds_on that posted several examples of PRTB rulings that showed those kind of payouts to tenants following illegal evictions.

goat2

carriexxx
how did you get on, did you receive all payment

AlekSmart

Carriexx wrote: »

Op here.
I have a number for someone in her social welfare office so going to call them this morning, as she is actually still receiving cheques for another home.
Then I think I will give her 28 days notice this evening, only thing is she has no phone and I bet she won't be home/won't answer door.

Hi Carriexx,murphaph describes a perfectly sensible and fair RA system which functions for both parties,however somewhat unfortunately it's in big bad ol Germany.

The system we freewheelin Irish have is so skewed as to have been devised by someone of semi-criminal intent as it facilitates the lazy and indolent in becoming even more so,at the State's expense....it's a growth sector and no doubt !!

I would suggest that when you extricate yourself from this mess,if you wish to continue facilitating RA/RS customers,then you "should" make it a priority to familiarize yourself with the relevant staff in the RA/RS section.

Having a contact within the section even if only on a first name basis can head-off a LOT of grief before it lands on your lap.

In your case I would not be surprised if you find yourself only the latest in a line of Landlords (Big Bad Evil ones) who have been stung by your tenant.

The only thing you need to hope for now is that you regain the use of your property in a habitable state,as this often turns out not to be the case.....:(

The_Conductor

Ok everyone, lets calm down and discuss this topic in a rational manner.
If you disagree with what someone else posts- refute the post without attacking the poster. If a post is abusive in nature- use the 'report post' function, to bring it to the attention of moderators- don't start a tit for tat scrap.

We should be able to discuss tenant or landlord issues, in a civilised manner- if we're not, aside from it being a sad state of affairs- I will close the threads concerned, and take whatever action is necessary against anyone in breach of the forum charter.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

riclad

IF a landlord takes a ra tenant on, he should expect there maybe a delay in getting the first payment especially a single mother.
maybe call her once or twice a week.The welfare officer only deals with rent enquirys maybe 3 days a week ,depending on the area you live in.
ONCE the first cheque arrives , ie the ra claim is approved,it should arrive promptly thereafter
unless theres a glitch in the banking computer system, ie sometimes cheques may arrive 1 week late.
i know landlord s in certain areas , there main clients are ra tenants,
you can ask her get a note from welfare officer, stating the payment is being processed ,this ra claim has been accepted for client x at adress x.

ebixa82

Carriexx wrote: »

HI - can someone please give me advice here.

I rented out my apartment to a girl and her daughter on social welfare. She said she would supply the €700 deposit herself on the day of moving in. She gave me a €150 security deposit. On day prior to her moving in, i was going to be away the next day so I gave her the key and said I would be over the next evening ( as she said she would have the rest of the deposit the next day ) On the next evening she said the social would come out and oversee apartment on the following day and pay deposit , i said fine. Then when social came they said they would send cheque at end of month but she said she would get it to me the following week - as i said this had been our agreement! I have so far got another €150 & €130 off her. She is there 3 weeks now.

I am constantly chasing her - she wont ring me when she says she will.

She said the rent would be lodged by the social yesterday - nothing has arrived. I have said I am considering ending the lease.

I actually cant afford to not have all this money, and her lies are too much for me now. Its like when I am talking to her she is saying I will definetely call you tomorrow, no problem. And then she just doesnt call and when i ask her - no excuses , just ah well i forgot.

Anybody have social welfare tenants - are the payments always bad like this?

What are my options?

Thanks

Long story short you let a RA tenant move in to your house without paying the deposit in full?

What did you think was going to happen?

Live and learn is the best advice that can be given.

Jarren

ebixa82 wrote: »

Long story short you let a RA tenant move in to your house without paying the deposit in full?

What did you think was going to happen?

Live and learn is the best advice that can be given.

Post more often please

Yawns

ebixa82 wrote: »

Long story short you let a RA tenant move in to your house without paying the deposit in full?

What did you think was going to happen?

Live and learn is the best advice that can be given.

About the bit in bold. It shouldn't matter whether the tenant is in receipt of RA or not. Always get a deposit and months rent upfront when signing the lease and handing over keys.

ebixa82

Yawns wrote: »

About the bit in bold. It shouldn't matter whether the tenant is in receipt of RA or not. Always get a deposit and months rent upfront when signing the lease and handing over keys.

Of course. But without being all discriminatory and non-PC the law of averages would suggest that RA tenants are more likely to cause problems than those not in RA.

A small yet significant minority damage the reputation of the majority unfortunately.

Yawns

Cannot argue with you there. I know what you mean in that a small bunch of maggots will ruin the chances of others. It's why I don't bat an eyelid if I hear of a LL refusing to accept RA. I know of a couple who were in RA who trashed the placed. Absolute filth. Then I know of some others who like myself need RA and the place is spic n span. But of course we always hear of the bad and generally never hear about the good and automatically associate the bad tenants with RA.

The_Conductor

The other thing is- on the internet, you only hear the horror stories, or the unbelievably brilliant stories- you don't hear what happens to the average person going about their daily life. Most tenants have perfectly normal arrangements with their landlords- and are perfectly happy with their landlords, as are the landlords with their tenants. This is across the board- every single category of dwelling and every single possible category of tenant. The actions of a few do tar the expectations of others though- so we hear all the stories about RA tenants being unreliable and indeed amateur landlords not having a clue and withholding deposits without justification. These morph into- every landlord withholds deposits- and never ever under any circumstance consider taking a RA tenant from the other perspective. That unfortunately is the nature of the internet.

Our entire housing system in Ireland needs to be seriously looked at. On the one hand- we have this almost morbid fascination with owning property- at any cost whatsoever. We defend this fascination- by telling ourselves- look, we were historically dispossessed- therefore we *need* to own property. Why are we any different from anywhere else though? Germany, France and many of the other European countries that we like to imagine we're trying to mirror with our social schemes- have no such hang-ups about property ownership- in many cases entire districts of major cities- such as Berlin for example, have their entire residential areas owned by pension companies- and this is considered to be an entirely acceptable way of living- were we to suggest something similar here- the outcry would be enormous......

Septic tank charges, water rates, property tax and the proposed residential tax- are all going to heap the cost of ownership of property- will it change how we perceive the need to own property though?

ABajaninCork

smccarrick wrote: »

Septic tank charges, water rates, property tax and the proposed residential tax- are all going to heap the cost of ownership of property- will it change how we perceive the need to own property though?

If you look at the UK model, then no. Property (Council in the UK) & water rates are the norm at home and everyone pays whether you own the property or not. Landlords will usually pass on the council tax and the tenant is expected to pay. Property tax alone will not discourage people from buying, nor should it. Any buyer now with a brain should factor in possible property charges before applying for the mortgage. Banks should be stress-testing for this also. But I doubt this is the case.

OTOH - With the council tax, the bins are included in the charge as is recycling. The LA's get a budget from central Govt and are expected to provide local services from that budget.

From what I can see and have read, it looks as though the property tax will rapidly rise to the levels seen in the UK. AND you'll have to pay again to have the bins taken. Why bin charges cannot be included in the tax, I don't understand. It would discourage people from fly-tipping their rubbish, but I understand it won't get rid of the problem altogether.

Another thing I don't understand is why there is no bond scheme for the retention of tenant deposits. In the UK (and elsewhere - I think the US and Australia for example), landlords by law have to lodge deposits into a Government-sponsored scheme. There is no escape from this, and the landlord faces huge fines for not registering the tenancy and lodging the money. It is the TENANT'S money and not money for the landlord to use as they please. If there is a dispute, then it goes to arbitration. I reckon with a lot of the cases where the deposit isn't returned, the money's already been spent by the landlord (probably to pay their BTL mortgage!) and they simply can't pay the deposit back.

But that's only my 2c's worth.

riclad

WHERE the ra application is accepted and a single mother is getting the rent cheque it makes no sense to
not pay the rent .SHE has to live in a stable adress in order to be on the housing list,get points,move up the list, and get a house or apartment from council .
I know woman on ra for 7 years, paid 12k per year rent ,for 3 bed house,
she got a lovely 2bed, bed apartment brand new ,all mod cons, in 2010 ,
in a nice area.She loves it.
EVEN if you are a tenant you,ll probably have to pay water rates
unless there,s a low income exemption brought in.
The welfare officer is not stupid, she,ll know at some point if tenant is not paying rent.
i think in germany theres rules on tenacy, or lower rents
which encourage more people to rent long term .
UNder data protection law ,staff can only give a very limited amount of personal info to a landlord or other person
re your tenant ,
they might or might not, confirm her name,or rent allowance is being
processed , or cheques are being paid out.
ITS NOT really their job to talk to landlord s
unless theres some emergency situation.
I,M not saying don,t talk to welfare officer,
leave it, maybe another 2 weeks.
in some working class area,s
its easier to find a ra tenant for a house ,than a private tenant, or the ra rent is a bit higher than
the private rental you might get.
IF you get a ra tenant ,if shes happy , she,ll
stay for 2 or 3 years.

BostonB

riclad wrote: »

WHERE the ra application is accepted and a single mother is getting the rent cheque it makes no sense to
not pay the rent .SHE has to live in a stable adress in order to be on the housing list,get points,move up the list, and get a house or apartment from council...

What is up with the formatting of your posts. Makes it very hard to read.

Problem is some people simply aren't sensible.

BostonB

ABajaninCork wrote: »

....Another thing I don't understand is why there is no bond scheme for the retention of tenant deposits. ...

+1, they should also have a means of looking up tenants and landlords to see if they've had previous disputes and the resolution. So if someone has a habit of causing problems, retaining deposits, or leaving the LL out of pocket, there is a record of it.

The_Conductor

Apparently the bond scheme is in the pipeline- its been held up for a considerable length of time- but things seem to be moving again, so heres hoping.......