A Wheel of Time

AnCapaillMor

She's a biotch but was one of my favourite characters by the end of the series.

OwaynOTT

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

I heard he wrote the last chapter first and then started the eye of the world next and worked from there. It was definately left open for more but him passing away ended that. I can understand the wife trying to keep his legacy with the books as his books, still bloody annoying though. His writing wasn't the best but the history\backstory blows me away, i'd love to see something with his ideas written by sanderson again.

That's not true. He wrote the ending somewhere in the middle of his writing of the books.

keane2097

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

She's a biotch but was one of my favourite characters by the end of the series.

She's more than just a bitch in fairness, as Sleepy said she suffers from a lack of self-awareness so profound as to make her utterly unbelievable as a character. She thinks & behaves in ways so ridiculous that she just becomes some sort of pantomime character after a couple of hundred pages. Jordan's complete inability to understand and write women distilled down into a single, dumb character.

ixoy

If you think Nynaeve's a misandrist bitch just wait until you encounter Cadsuane...

Sleepy

Oh, jaysus, there's another one!? :rolleyes:

keane2097, bearing in mind I'm still only on book 4 but most of the other female characters seem reasonable enough to me... what would your issues with his other main female characters to this point?

I'm at the point where

Rand is still in Tear; Perrin in the Ways headed back to Emond's Field with Loilal, Faile and the Aiel; Nynaeve and Elayne just boarded ship with the Sea Folk

keane2097

ixoy wrote: »

If you think Nynaeve's a misandrist bitch just wait until you encounter Cadsuane...

Not really spoilers but if you're very sensitive...

re:Cadsuane

I remember thinking she, while obviously an extremely irritating **** was nevertheless a better character as she at least was consistently following some class of a motivation. Nynaeve's character just veers in and out of tantrums over things that are not believable and has no self-awareness.

Cadsuane was on a mission and was a prick about it, which is grand. I can believe that guy exists. The Nynaeve gob****e who is unaware she is pulling her own hair and has no inkling whatsoever as to her culpability for her own mistakes is just too far into the world of caricature. Nobody like that exists. You jumped the shark Nynaeve baby.

Sleepy wrote: »

Oh, jaysus, there's another one!? :rolleyes:

keane2097, bearing in mind I'm still only on book 4 but most of the other female characters seem reasonable enough to me... what would your issues with his other main female characters to this point?

I'm at the point where

Rand is still in Tear; Perrin in the Ways headed back to Emond's Field with Loilal, Faile and the Aiel; Nynaeve and Elayne just boarded ship with the Sea Folk

I can't remember exactly tbh. The Aiel are all pretty terrible as well IIRC. Jordan basically uses things like Ji-e-toh a lot to excuse his characters acting completely irrationally and in ways that aren't believable because he's not smart enough to figure out how to get everyone where he needs them at the end of the book without them being inexplicably stupid at multiple plot branches.

Loial and

his mother

is another one I vaguely remember. Just stop being a gob****e Loial,

sack up and tell the bitch to mind her own business. If you're not prepared to do that I don't see how I'm meant to buy that you're going to fight the devil

.

EDIT: re the women which you asked about specifically:

He writes them all pretty irrational IMO. Elayne and Egwene are practically slow at times in their failure to comprehend the motivations of Rand and others which makes their subtle machinations where they out-think people pretty superbly very difficult to swallow

Nody

*Smooths out her skirt*
*Woolheaded men*
*Pulls her braid*
Rand/Perrin/Mat complaining about the other two having so much understanding/luck with women

You could go on but those are really getting annoying after a while...

keane2097

For the record I don't think I have ever seen anyone smooth a skirt.

wyrn

Sleepy wrote: »

On book 4 now and have to admit the character of Nynaeve is really beginning to grate. Am I supposed to be rooting for such a misandrist with no self awareness or control whatsoever?

Hoping she has a future as a

daman

ahead of her!

I hated her at first, she made me really angry. Loved her in the end. I much preferred her storyline to Elayne and co. In fact I couldn't wait for a Nynaeve storyline.

Probably because

I'm a sucker for a bit of romance in these stories and Lan was my favourite character of the whole WoT series. I would happily read a Nyneave and Lan spin off

Trojan

keane2097 wrote: »

EDIT: re the women which you asked about specifically:

He writes them all pretty irrational IMO. Elayne and Egwene are practically slow at times in their failure to comprehend the motivations of Rand and others which makes their subtle machinations where they out-think people pretty superbly very difficult to swallow

That drove me nuts too. Not sure this is a spoiler, more of a general thing but

I find it ok for the author to have some main characters on the same side having disagreements or misunderstandings, but to think that they could be so repeatedly stupid, time and time again, it didn't work for me.

Very irritating.

AnCapaillMor

Don't know if Jordan meant to take it into account but Woman pretty much have ruled the roost for 3,000 years and that would bring on a certain amount of we're always right also men were pretty much blamed for the breaking and there's still a stigma of that around. I imagine Aes Sedai still thought if Lews Therin had gone in with the Female Chanelers together the breaking wouldn't have happened. Possibly might explain Egwene being such a biocth.

That being said it still drove me mad, especially Elyane "kim Bauer" Trakand.

bradyle

Ok I’m about to start book 11. I read the first 7 or so in one go and since then have been reading them every once in a while, this seems to be pretty normal as most people agree they get worse after like book 6. But my question is do they get better again? Like don’t get me wrong I still enjoy them in a way I just don’t feel any need to read the next book when I finish the current one.

Nody

bradyle wrote: »

Ok I’m about to start book 11. I read the first 7 or so in one go and since then have been reading them every once in a while, this seems to be pretty normal as most people agree they get worse after like book 6. But my question is do they get better again? Like don’t get me wrong I still enjoy them in a way I just don’t feel any need to read the next book when I finish the current one.

Not really; the spark is gone and you're really only reading them for the sake of completing the story (I hate not completing stories). I don't think many, if anyone excluding the most dedicated zealots, will ever read through the whole series twice for example.

bradyle

Nody wrote: »

Not really; the spark is gone and you're really only reading them for the sake of completing the story (I hate not completing stories). I don't think many, if anyone excluding the most dedicated zealots, will ever read through the whole series twice for example.

Is Sanderson's books any better? I'm a big fan of him and really knowing he was finishing it was what got me to try reading the series again after I gave up when I tried when i was fairly young.

ciaranmac

bradyle wrote: »

Ok I’m about to start book 11. I read the first 7 or so in one go and since then have been reading them every once in a while, this seems to be pretty normal as most people agree they get worse after like book 6. But my question is do they get better again? Like don’t get me wrong I still enjoy them in a way I just don’t feel any need to read the next book when I finish the current one.

I'm probably in a minority but I feel they get better again starting at book 11 (the last one Jordan finished). When I got to AMOL I was reading it literally every spare minute I had.

AnCapaillMor

It's pick up again after crossroads. Jordans last book was pretty good and gathering storm just had some epic moments.

Nody

bradyle wrote: »

Is Sanderson's books any better? I'm a big fan of him and really knowing he was finishing it was what got me to try reading the series again after I gave up when I tried when i was fairly young.

There are no sudden Deux Ex moments and there are cliff hanger chapters or "WTF" moments of "revelations" but it's not making me stay up past midnight to just "read one more chapter before bed". It's not Dune ending bad how ever (the final two books written to finish the Dune saga were... painfull...) so it's readable but it's not making me turn around and recommend the books to my friends as a "must read" (rather a "well you can finish that series now if you want to").

I stand by my prediction though and I don't expect many people will read through the whole series again after they have finished it simply because it's not that good (I'm on the final book half way through and so far nothing has changed my oppinion on that view).

Tristram

Finished "Knife of Dreams" yesterday and started "The Gathering Storm" last night. I think it did pick up again in Book 11 but that may just be me anticipating the end. I think that at this stage I'm most excited in following Matt's storyline and seeing how things go if/when he

he goes to rescue Moiraine.

Tenger

Nody wrote: »

...... but it's not making me stay up past midnight to just "read one more chapter before bed". It's not Dune ending bad how ever (the final two books written to finish the Dune saga were... painfull...) ....

Really? I was considering getting the last few Dune books (Sandworms of, Winds of...., Hunters of, Paul of... and Hunters of.. etc)

I really enjoyed the House series and the Jihad/Battle/Crusade series.

Nody

The Jihad/House series are ok/fine; the last two books of Dune to finish the story lines are atrocious...

Sleepy

Just starting book 5.

Please someone tell me that these morons will eventually figure out that

when you have your enemies caught in a weave of air, you don't leave them there, you slit their f**king throats!

Trojan

Sleepy wrote: »

Just starting book 5.

Please someone tell me that these morons will eventually figure out that

when you have your enemies caught in a weave of air, you don't leave them there, you slit their f**king throats!

Oh yeah, sure they do.

They definitely figure that at some point later.

Or is that some other series I'm thinking of?

Sleepy

The constant stupidity of some of the characters is just so jarring it takes you out of the story...

ixoy

Trojan wrote: »

Oh yeah, sure they do.

They definitely figure that at some point later.

That's one thing I noticed when Sanderson took over: more intelligent use of magic. Not surprisingly as he's one of the best out there for magic systems.

AnCapaillMor

I'd say it killed sanderson when he took over, he goes into great detail on his magic system, jordan just went he made fire and it happened. Definately brought something to the books magic, androl was his creation.

stesaurus

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

I'd say it killed sanderson when he took over, he goes into great detail on his magic system, jordan just went he made fire and it happened. Definately brought something to the books magic, androl was his creation.

Excellent character, loved his sections.

Tristram

Finished AMOL last night. Really enjoyed the last three books. It all came to a close at quite a breakneck speed. Is the prequel worth reading?

Tristram

Well I went ahead and got stuck into the prequel. Seems so pedestrian compared to pace of the last few books. Back to long descriptive passages of trips to the dress-shop and other such excitement. Really not enjoying the treatment of Moiraine. Such a bad mix of Egwene & Nynaeve.

Tristram

Finished New Spring there. Colossal waste of time. Jesus.

Nody

Tristram wrote: »

Finished New Spring there. Colossal waste of time. Jesus.

That's along the lines I remember it as well. On a side note finished AMOL today (audio book ftw); I think

there were way to much happy happy boy gets girl to the ending; yes it had some significant deaths but far less then what I expected and far to "nice" deaths (i.e. suicide rush to save everyone) rather then tortured and broken people on the good side

.