Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

anthonyjmaher

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just watched it. Nothing very new or exclusive?

Seems like the purpose of the statement was to try to justify the use of the words "player safety" and "unhealthy" but nothing in the statement reflected a justified use of those words. They said there was a long press conference last night, and seems like they will be drip feeding the content of it throughout the day. Could you imagine if the Irish soccer team players downed tools like this!

Bit childish the way that Ger said that Peter Leahy "spoke in the media in recent weeks" as opposed to naming Woolly's podcast.

NIMAN

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

"We weren't given feedback, one girl was told she was lazy".

The girls need to grow the f**k up. The ladies game is gonna suffer because of this, as no male manager or coach is ever gonna want to put himself in this position again.

If women want to be treated the same as men, then they need to toughen up.

Beechwoodspark

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

Seems like the purpose of the statement was to try to justify the use of the words "player safety" and "unhealthy" but nothing in the statement reflected a justified use of those words. They said there was a long press conference last night, and seems like they will be drip feeding the content of it throughout the day. Could you imagine if the Irish soccer team players downed tools like this!

Bit childish the way that Ger said that Peter Leahy "spoke in the media in recent weeks" as opposed to naming Woolly's podcast.

Wooly has tweeted about that also. He asked are otb so petty that they won’t mention him.

OldMrBrennan83

Took them a week to come up with that statement full of nothing.

Beechwoodspark

Just heard some of the press conference on RTÉ radio

A whole heap of nothing

“Nobody understands” and then water works.

Embarrassing.

NIMAN

I read the article on this press conference and tbh, I'm still none the wiser!

I wish to God someone would tell us what the hell happened, who said what to who, why they felt undermined, unsafe.

Throwing phrases like "it has affected our mental health" is strong stuff, and we need to know what happened that caused such harm?

I thought the one line "someone was called lazy" was a bit trivial. For it to be included made me think there is a bit of straw clutching going on. Every player in every level of Gaelic games is probably going to be called lazy at some point in their life. Get over it ffs.

Tell me how

Wooly has tweeted about this mornings coverage

https://twitter.com/Woolberto/status/1041961019936002048

This is never going to be resolved because so much of it is down to subjective opinion.

NIMAN

Yeah, too many people now are playing the big card too easily.

The Mayo ladies playing the mental health card.
Serena playing the racist card last week.

It devalues some peoples real struggles.

BPKS

"One girl did not make the starting 15 for the Connacht final and during an individual meeting she had after the final, she was given feedback as to why she wasn't starting and the feedback given was that she was lazy."



FFS.

Are they serious? They think that is being undermined or intimidated.

And then they play the mental health card.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Beechwoodspark

BPKS wrote: »

"One girl did not make the starting 15 for the Connacht final and during an individual meeting she had after the final, she was given feedback as to why she wasn't starting and the feedback given was that she was lazy."



FFS.

Are they serious? They think that is being undermined or intimidated.

And then they play the mental health card.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Going by what we’ve seen over the last few weeks I’d say the manager had some job dealing with these prima donnas

BPKS

And another thing.

The only player they name-check is the captain who isnt a Carnacon player I believe.

Surely this is a co-incidence!

Tell me how

Well, they've offered Peter Leahy to appear on the show.
I wonder will Colm Parkinson have the girls on.
Edit - Colm has said that he's asked them to appear.

Tell me how

Listening to the audio from the press conference one of the following seems to be the case.

Either the girls were soft and couldn't take criticism or,
Peter is an authoritarian, doesn't like being challenged and is unaware of the impact negative criticism can have on people.

I'm guessing no matter how long this goes on, there will always be some who say it was one or the other.

NIMAN

Most managers, especially in top level sports, are authoritarian surely?

And they shout at people too ffs !!
And they might call you lazy and tell you to get your finger out!

If this has a negative effect on your mental health, maybe you shouldn't be playing sport?

What this sounds like to me, and I can't understand whats happening in all this, is something along these lines : a player was shouted at or dropped or called lazy or whatever, she took the hump, rallied her friends around and then they sat down and decided if they could do anything about it. So one of them had the bright idea to play the biggest card they had: H&S, mental health, player welfare, call it what you will.

Then issue vague statements that Joe Public can't make head nor tail of, and some even might think sexual assaults or approaches were made. Then the can of worms was open and more vague statements made the situation worse, and they can't take back what they said.

elefant

NIMAN wrote: »

Most managers, especially in top level sports, are authoritarian surely?

And they shout at people too ffs !!
And they might call you lazy and tell you to get your finger out!

If this has a negative effect on your mental health, maybe you shouldn't be playing sport?

Seems a bit strange that the most decorated and experienced players in the squad were all the most brittle ones. Something in the Carnacon water?

NIMAN

elefant wrote: »

Seems a bit strange that the most decorated and experienced players in the squad were all the most brittle ones. Something in the Carnacon water?

More a case of 'One Out, All Out'.

Tell me how

elefant wrote: »

Seems a bit strange that the most decorated and experienced players in the squad were all the most brittle ones. Something in the Carnacon water?

Or that the most decorated and experienced players were brave enough to recognize and stand up to unacceptable behaviour......

Dick Pickle

Tell me how wrote: »

Or that the most decorated and experienced players were brave enough to recognize and stand up to unacceptable behaviour......

Ha! Are you on the stage ?

ThunbergsAreGo

Tell me how wrote: »

Or that the most decorated and experienced players were brave enough to recognize and stand up to unacceptable behaviour......

Calling a player lazy,in private, when they asked for feedback is unacceptable now?

sonic85

Tell me how wrote: »

Listening to the audio from the press conference one of the following seems to be the case.

Either the girls were soft and couldn't take criticism or,
Peter is an authoritarian, doesn't like being challenged and is unaware of the impact negative criticism can have on people.

I'm guessing no matter how long this goes on, there will always be some who say it was one or the other.

This is it in my opinion. Could well be a bit of both.

Im not even into womens football but this case is interesting. Before the press conference i thought the players were hamming it up a bit and blew the whole thing out of proportion but now im not so sure.

If what they were saying is right then the manager seems like hes a bit of a bully. Surely phoning a player and giving them abuse is a bit of a no no? Or tearing strips off another player and then having a good laugh about it to another player? FFS if stuff like that was happening in a workplace there would be serious consequences. Sport seems to be the last place it's acceptable to dole out insults and abuse with no blowback.

It'll be interesting to hear his reply

ThunbergsAreGo

sonic85 wrote: »

This is it in my opinion. Could well be a bit of both.

Im not even into womens football but this case is interesting. Before the press conference i thought the players were hamming it up a bit and blew the whole thing out of proportion but now im not so sure.

If what they were saying is right then the manager seems like hes a bit of a bully. Surely phoning a player and giving them abuse is a bit of a no no? Or tearing strips off another player and then having a good laugh about it to another player? FFS if stuff like that was happening in a workplace there would be serious consequences. Sport seems to be the last place it's acceptable to dole out insults and abuse with no blowback.

It'll be interesting to hear his reply

Did he do this? Cannot see it in the statement

Dots1982

Wasn’t team selection a major issue to the carnacons according to Leahy?

sonic85

naughtb4 wrote: »

Did he do this? Cannot see it in the statement

I listened to some of the AM show and they had some clips of the press conference. The former Mayo captain was in one giving a few examples of the issues she personally had. I'm not saying those examples she gave are true but if they are then it paints the whole thing in a different light IMO

sightband

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/the-whole-experience-had-a-significant-impact-on-our-mental-health-departed-mayo-players-release-strong-statement-37327872.html

NIMAN

sonic85 wrote: »

If what they were saying is right then the manager seems like hes a bit of a bully. Surely phoning a player and giving them abuse is a bit of a no no? Or tearing strips off another player and then having a good laugh about it to another player? FFS if stuff like that was happening in a workplace there would be serious consequences. Sport seems to be the last place it's acceptable to dole out insults and abuse with no blowback.

It'll be interesting to hear his reply

Well this is at least more information as to what might have happened.

Where did you read this from, cos all the time I have been following this case I never read those.

But this sort of behaviour has been happening in team sports for an eternity. Its not just started now with the Mayo ladies.
Perhaps if Alex Ferguson was still in management we would have some players crying off and running to the press saying "he's a bully, he called me useless and lazy".

I still think if thats the main crux of all this debacle, then the ladies simply needed to toughen up a bit. Or get out of Gaelic games.

ThunbergsAreGo

NIMAN wrote: »

Well this is at least more information as to what might have happened.

Where did you read this from, cos all the time I have been following this case I never read those.

But this sort of behaviour has been happening in team sports for an eternity. Its not just started now with the Mayo ladies.
Perhaps if Alex Ferguson was still in management we would have some players crying off and running to the press saying "he's a bully, he called me useless and lazy".

I still think if thats the main crux of all this debacle, then the ladies simply needed to toughen up a bit. Or get out of Gaelic games.

If the genders were reversed or if it was a male team, none of this would be entertained. A key line in the article was Leahy said he was about equality. It seems to me he has treated them like any other team, male or female he has managed previously

Maybe there is a wider point about the manager abusing players, but that is part of a wider issue in sport (and again we have only heard one side on this, and its still vague accusations)

NIMAN

If this is simply a case of people being shouted at and called lazy (or 'bullying' if you want to term it that) then it has the potential to change sport forever.

If a manager has to say only nice things to his or her players, then what sort of sport will we have in the future, where no-one can be criticised after bad performances?

sonic85

NIMAN wrote: »

Well this is at least more information as to what might have happened.

Where did you read this from, cos all the time I have been following this case I never read those.

But this sort of behaviour has been happening in team sports for an eternity. Its not just started now with the Mayo ladies.
Perhaps if Alex Ferguson was still in management we would have some players crying off and running to the press saying "he's a bully, he called me useless and lazy".

I still think if thats the main crux of all this debacle, then the ladies simply needed to toughen up a bit. Or get out of Gaelic games.

I don't agree with any of this TBH. Nowadays it's not about who can shout and scream the loudest it's about being a good man manager. Tailoring your approach to try coax the best out of certain players. Not everybody is made from stone and can take sh1t and aggressive behaviour. Are people really OK with alienating good players because the manager hasn't got a clue how to actually manage?

I've seen it plenty of times in sports and work environments "managers" whose only approach to solving an issue is to lose the rag.

Ferguson was a great manager but those were different times. We have the same crap happening now with the Irish team. Keane who can't deal properly with people driving wedges into the squad and turning the atmosphere toxic. And all you hear from MON is well Mr Clough did it this way. Times change.

ThunbergsAreGo

http://www.offtheball.com/GAA/Specifics-mayo-football

BPKS

NIMAN wrote: »

If this is simply a case of people being shouted at and called lazy (or 'bullying' if you want to term it that) then it has the potential to change sport forever.

If a manager has to say only nice things to his or her players, then what sort of sport will we have in the future, where no-one can be criticised after bad performances?

It might just come to this.

There is a generation coming through whereby everybody gets a medal on sports day.

Where criticism or motivation can be seen as bullying.

Where people are genuinely unable to deal with any form of adversary without retreating into their shell and looking to blame others.

Where common sense and cop on are things they read about in history books.

And these attitudes are being facilitated by flaky, PC frenzied media. Both traditional media and social media.

ThunbergsAreGo

sonic85 wrote: »

I don't agree with any of this TBH. Nowadays it's not about who can shout and scream the loudest it's about being a good man manager. Tailoring your approach to try coax the best out of certain players. Not everybody is made from stone and can take sh1t and aggressive behaviour. Are people really OK with alienating good players because the manager hasn't got a clue how to actually manage?

I've seen it plenty of times in sports and work environments "managers" whose only approach to solving an issue is to lose the rag.

Ferguson was a great manager but those were different times. We have the same crap happening now with the Irish team. Keane who can't deal properly with people driving wedges into the squad and turning the atmosphere toxic. And all you hear from MON is well Mr Clough did it this way. Times change.

I dont really disagree with any of the above.

What I disagree with is the use of the words unsafe and player welfare. they would have been better off saying we dont like the manager and his approach and walking.

I dont think anyone would have had any issue with it

NIMAN

sonic85 wrote: »

I don't agree with any of this TBH. Nowadays it's not about who can shout and scream the loudest it's about being a good man manager. Tailoring your approach to try coax the best out of certain players. Not everybody is made from stone and can take sh1t and aggressive behaviour. Are people really OK with alienating good players because the manager hasn't got a clue how to actually manage?

I've seen it plenty of times in sports and work environments "managers" whose only approach to solving an issue is to lose the rag.

Ferguson was a great manager but those were different times. We have the same crap happening now with the Irish team. Keane who can't deal properly with people driving wedges into the squad and turning the atmosphere toxic. And all you hear from MON is well Mr Clough did it this way. Times change.

Of course times change, but this is why a generation is being labelled 'snowflake'.

Sometimes managers have to lose the rag as you put it. In a professional office work space, I'd say its not a common thing. But in a sports environment, yes for sure. Would be great if everyone could speak calmly to their players and get results, but sometimes showing some passion is whats needed.

Maybe I'm old school. I don't believe in medals being given to those that just take part. I don't mind players getting shouted at, especially if they are adults. People need to have some internal toughness or else they are fecked. The world can be a nasty place, you can't spend all day in your safe space.

sonic85

NIMAN wrote: »

Of course times change, but this is why a generation is being labelled 'snowflake'.

Sometimes managers have to lose the rag as you put it. In a professional office work space, I'd say its not a common thing. But in a sports environment, yes for sure. Would be great if everyone could speak calmly to their players and get results, but sometimes showing some passion is whats needed.

Maybe I'm old school. I don't believe in medals being given to those that just take part. I don't mind players getting shouted at, especially if they are adults. People need to have some internal toughness or else they are fecked. The world can be a nasty place, you can't spend all day in your safe space.

Yes but I didn't say speak calmly to everyone - I said tailor your approach. There's plenty of players out there who love a bit of needle who need a bit of a confrontation to get the adrenaline pumping. But there's also plenty of people who don't respond to that and screaming and yelling at those people won't really get you anywhere and will probably affect their performance in a negative way.

And I'd actually say there's probably a bit of a difference between shouting at somebody and then maybe abusing them.

A lot of this will hinge now on Leahys response. OTB invited him on to reply but he said he's going to listen through the 50 minutes of the press conference first

gormdubhgorm

BPKS wrote: »

"One girl did not make the starting 15 for the Connacht final and during an individual meeting she had after the final, she was given feedback as to why she wasn't starting and the feedback given was that she was lazy."



FFS.

Are they serious? They think that is being undermined or intimidated.

And then they play the mental health card.

Absolutely ridiculous.

This made me think of the programme Underdogs on TG4 (where they unearth untapped GAA talent)
I think it was the first series Brian Mullins was manager years ago.

A fella was removed from the team.

Mullins:

Sorry you are not good enough you are not making the next round.

You are going home.


Player:

(Tears in his eyes - dreams shattered on the verge of crying)

You could have told me nicer, not just like that



Mullins:

(Looks the fella right in the eye - deadpan)

Is it a hug you want?




I think Mullins should go for the Mayo Ladies football job when Leahy is forced out by the girls.
It would be some craic.

Footoo

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This made me think of the programme Underdogs on TG4 (where they unearth untapped GAA talent)
I think it was the first series Brian Mullins was manager years ago.

A fella was removed from the team.

Mullins:

Sorry you are not good enough you are not making the next round.

You are going home.


Player:

(Tears in his eyes - dreams shattered on the verge of crying)

You could have told me nicer, not just like that



Mullins:

(Looks the fella right in the eye - deadpan)

Is it a hug you want?




I think Mullins should go for the Mayo Ladies football job when Leahy is forced out by the girls.
It would be some craic.

If he said that to one of the Mayo ladies, he'd be in jail and the key thrown away already in
the current environment.

Tell me how

Dick Pickle wrote: »

Ha! Are you on the stage ?

No. Are you suggesting that such experienced players couldn't/shouldn't have an opinion on what constitutes acceptable behaviour?

naughtb4 wrote: »

Calling a player lazy,in private, when they asked for feedback is unacceptable now?

I think there's more to it than that. Going by the captains statements anyway.

OldMrBrennan83

Mayo LGFA statement on last night's players statement.

http://www.the42.ie/mayo-lgfa-statement-peter-leahy-carnacon-4241606-Sep2018

'Mayo LGFA County Board Executive believe the time is now right to issue a statement regarding the player walkout from the Mayo Ladies Senior Football panel in July 2018. We wish firstly to state, that we are endorsing Peter Leahy and his management team, as Mayo Senior Ladies management for the upcoming season and beyond and offer them our full support.

'We wish to thank Peter, his management team, and their respective families for their patience, integrity and dignity throughout this episode since July. The County Board also wish to thank the Mayo Senior Players who remained on the panel for the three remaining Intercounty championship games this year and commend them for their performances under immense emotional pressures and in some cases, intimidation.

'Three members of the executive met with players who left the senior panel along with representatives of the Carnacon club and listened to their concerns and feelings several days after the walkout. While cognisant of the feelings expressed to us that evening, we felt strongly that their issues related to management style, decisions and selections that are normal and commonplace in any team environment. We respected the players right to leave the panel and have at all times respected their feelings and concerns by not making them public as we were asked on that occasion by those players. We feel that it is incumbent on the players to release these and still await them doing so. However, as members of the County Board Executive, as parents, and as people involved with Ladies football for many years, we felt extremely comfortable in our decision to endorse Peter Leahy and his management team less than 48 hours later at a training session in Kiltoom. We thanked the remaining 28 players who remained for their endorsement of the management team also. We thought it was important to meet with the remaining panel on this night as many of us on the Executive had been receiving calls from players and parents concerned as to what was happening. This concern was due to a statement released by the players who left, through the WGPA, where they cited their reasons for leaving as “Player welfare issues of a personal and sensitive nature”.

'We are of the opinion, that this was an orchestrated and calculated statement designed to create maximum impact, and garner maximum headlines. We were extremely disappointed having heard the player concerns that they would express them in this manner. The statement, which remains unsubstantiated, led to rumour and innuendo of the vilest nature and Peter Leahy, and indeed his family, endured a torrid few weeks where they received online, telephone and face to face comments of a despicable nature. All the while this was happening, the players who left did nothing to quell such rumour and gossip though we now appreciate that they have retrospectively taken responsibility for this in their most recent statement. After this meeting, we found that remaining players had been contacted and pressurised up to and including two days before the intercounty game with Cavan to try and convince them to leave the panel. We find this behaviour totally unacceptable and unbecoming of anyone who claims to have the interest of Mayo football at heart. We are of the opinion that the walkout was an orchestrated move designed to make the management of Peter Leahy untenable due to sheer weight of numbers leaving the panel. We feel it was a move designed to wrestle control of the senior team from the management and but for the steadfastness of Peter Leahy, the existing Mayo panel and the County Board it would have succeeded.

'The County Board, at great expense, employed the services of a professional and independent mediator who listened to and spoke with all parties involved via telephone and through a sit-down mediation process over the space of a week. All issues were discussed, and all parties were fully aware of each other’s issues on the night. In recent comments by a certain player who left the panel, it was stated that perhaps the girls who remained were not aware or didn’t see any of the “Player Welfare Issues”, but they would have been made fully aware of all concerns and feelings through the mediation process. The players have accepted that a number of them did not fully address their issues with other members of the panel and we welcome this, however, we are disappointed that they would refer to the mediation as an “Unfair Process”.

'The mediator in question is one of the most respected mediators in the country and has worked professionally in all areas of mediation be it industrial or the sporting environment. The mediation process ended unresolved. It must be stated that while the players who left have been insinuating that their issues were not investigated, we the County Board Executive feel that we could not have done anything else reasonably expected of us. The players withdrew through a phone call from the secretary of the Carnacon club to Peter Leahy, at no time was the player liaison officer or any member of the county board forewarned of any issues, or indeed of the walkout itself. We approached the players through the secretary of the Carnacon club to organise the meeting and we organised the independent mediation process.

'At the August County Board meeting which was the first meeting since the player walkout, club delegates asked the executive for a summary of the whole incident around the senior team. While having consideration to the promise we made to the players on the night we met them that their issues would remain confidential, we gave the clubs the timeline of events. The clubs were of the opinion that the Carnacon clubs’ actions in withdrawing their players from the senior panel went against the ethos of the LGFA in the manner that it was done and through the subsequent statement released. The club delegates felt that members of the Carnacon club were complicit in the whole event and had brought Mayo LGFA into disrepute by causing a very public storm through their actions and the harmful statement which followed. There was a lot of hurt and anger and the clubs felt strongly that Carnacon should be sanctioned for bringing the organisation, their clubs and players into disrepute. As a County Board Executive, we were compelled to sanction the Carnacon club after an overwhelming majority vote. While we were acutely aware that the sanction would affect players who were not part of the walkout, we feel that it was the Carnacon club who removed their young players from a county panel where they would have enjoyed bright futures.

'Furthermore, we wish to express our disappointment at further statements made in a radio interview, whereby the playing environment under the management was deemed as “unhealthy” and she “didn’t feel it was a safe environment”. These remarks have led us to release this statement and we are seeking further advice with regard to them. We must stress that at no stage in our meeting with them were these remarks used. They have further exacerbated the situation and are extremely unhelpful going forward.

'Peter Leahy felt compelled to break his silence following these outrageous comments and we feel strongly that we must do likewise. It must be further stated at this stage that management, remaining players and county board officials have all said, and continue to say the same thing, we were not and are not aware of any issues which could be deemed as welfare issues, unhealthy or unsafe environments. We sincerely hope that this situation finishes today and are glad that the players indicated there will be no further comment.

'We wish them well in their future endeavours and hope our Senior Team can look forward to playing next year without restriction or intimidation. We wish Peter and his management team all the best going into the new season and we sincerely hope that we, the county board, can get back to the business of administrating Ladies football in the county for our children all the way to our adult players. We thank the clubs for their support and patience throughout this time.'

_

Tell me how

Patww79 wrote: »

Mayo LGFA statement on last night's players statement.

When was that released? It doesn't seem to address last nights statements by the players who left.

On both sides there are accusations of intimidation. Intimation of players to leave the panel by those who left or intimidation by the management team on girls to stay away from a compulsory meeting. On both sides there are accusations of being attacked over this in the public domain.

It's all so subjective as to where you might think responsibility lies for this. Peter Leahy sounded convincing on Colm's podcast, but so too did Sarah Tierney at last nights press conference.

I can see this fading away to some degree while simultaneously leaving a stain on May ladies football which will be there for many years. None of those that left will be welcome to partake in future training or coaching roles for example.
Lot of friendships probably affected by this as well.

anthonyjmaher

Just listened to the press conference. It's some craic all the same. :-) There's nothing like a good aul GAA controversy. Only a matter of time before it's on liveline.

Why are Off The Ball only now offering Peter Leahy a chance to give his side of the story? They had their narrative from the start, and didn't care about the fact that they were facilitating the players accusing the management of creating a unsafe environment. Both sides have gone all-in at this stage, so it could get very interesting.

I also think there is a danger of this becoming a petty OTB vs The GAA Hour battle for hearts and minds as well. OTB are still fully backing Staunton, and Woolly is fully backing Peter Leahy, and I hope that doesn't get in the way of the story.

Raisins

Tell me how wrote: »

When was that released? It doesn't seem to address last nights statements...

It was released this afternoon. It’s in direct response to the press conference. It’s an unbelievable mess now.

Even if everything the women said last night is true, the way they handled the walk out was completely wrong. If it was a dad or family member of mine who had those insinuations sitting there in the public domain or on the airwaves I’d be furious.

With all the sexual abuse stuff that’s come out from changing rooms etc to leave accusations of an “unsafe environment”, “serious player welfare issues” which they claimed their team mates who stayed knew nothing about, was terrible stain on his reputation given that the height of it now is that he’s an angry aggressive drill sergeant of a coach.

They knew exactly what they were doing, they stayed vague because they weren’t comfortable calling out the conduct specifically. Staying vague like that for as long as possible left him seriously damaged.

anthonyjmaher

Raisins wrote: »

With all the sexual abuse stuff that’s come out from changing rooms etc to leave accusations of an “unsafe environment”, “serious player welfare issues” which they claimed their team mates who stayed knew nothing about, was terrible stain on his reputation given that the height of it now is that he’s an angry aggressive drill sergeant of a coach.

Citing "player welfare issues" and an "unsafe environment" was very unfair to the manager with all the connotations that that brings these days. It's not too far short of being retweeted by Rose McGowan with a #MeToo at this stage.

Raisins

Raisins wrote: »

With all the sexual abuse stuff that’s come out from changing rooms etc to leave accusations of an “unsafe environment”, “serious player welfare issues” which they claimed their team mates who stayed knew nothing about, was terrible stain on his reputation given that the height of it now is that he’s an angry aggressive drill sergeant of a coach.

They knew exactly what they were doing, they stayed vague because they weren’t comfortable calling out the conduct specifically. Staying vague like that for as long as possible left him seriously damaged.

That's exactly what I assumed this 'controversy' was about when I first heard of it, I'm sure most people were the same.

The fact that the only example they can give of an 'unsafe' environment is a player being called "lazy" is preposterous. Talk about a PR-move backfiring. The ladies involved seem to have acted completely irresponsibly here.

Tell me how

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

That's exactly what I assumed this 'controversy' was about when I first heard of it, I'm sure most people were the same.

The fact that the only example they can give of an 'unsafe' environment is a player being called "lazy" is preposterous. Talk about a PR-move backfiring. The ladies involved seem to have acted completely irresponsibly here.

That isn't the only example though. Did you hear their press conference?

They also said that the manager phoned some girls, including the captain, and swore at them for what he felt was questioning their authority.
Another girl was asked was she blind, or stupid, or both.

I'm not suggesting that these constitute outright abuse but a lot seem to be just going with the narrative that first the girls were dropped and got the hump and now that they were called lazy and got the hump.

I don't know if the above comments were the extent of it or what but I still think there is more going on. They have doubled down on their actions with last night's statement. That, in a situation where their county board and most of the clubs in the county are siding with the manager. I'm wondering why would formerly such respected and very experienced players act in this way. To this extent.

Raisins

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't know if the above comments were the extent of it or what but I still think there is more going on.

Stop that speculation you can only go on what has actually been said by these women about the manager. I’d be surprised if they’re sparing him. He challenged them to put every health and safety issue in the public domain and we have to assume now after the press conference they have done so.

Imhof Tank

Tell me how wrote: »

. I'm wondering why would formerly such respected and very experienced players act in this way. To this extent.

Duh? They are part of the snowflake revolution, encouraged by the likes of the MeToo movement, Serena Williams, OTB and Sport Ireland with their corporate governance workshops laid on to give the pen pushers in Abbotstown something to do.

The law around what constitutes bullying is totally up in the air at present- some practitioners are saying it has to be wholly subjective, the only question being "how did the conduct make me feel". No regard for proportionality or how the reasonably stable person would react. The next thing then is it becomes a no fault culture where all you have to do is think, not even say out loud, that you're not comfortable and everyone around you suddenly has a duty of care to be a mind reader and make changes to suit you and your welfare.

It was completely obvious that the Mayo panel had been reading up on their law books before the press conference. Little gems like "we were given no chance to improve" - straight out of the guidebooks that one was.

All of that said, I didn't take any sexual misconduct innuendo from all the welfare and player safety talk. Bullying was the implication I took from it personally.

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Tell me how wrote: »

That isn't the only example though. Did you hear their press conference?

Yep, I'm basing my views on Des Cahill's reports on Morning Ireland which included recordings from the press conference.

They also said that the manager phoned some girls, including the captain, and swore at them for what he felt was questioning their authority.
Another girl was asked was she blind, or stupid, or both.

Those are nasty things to hear, for sure; but I get that kind of stuff on an almost weekly basis from my boss. And i'm good at my job:pac::pac:

It does not amount to an "unsafe working environment". I would have been far more sympathetic to the players' complaints if their criticism had been proportionate from the outset. But that fact that they began by claiming the workimg environment was "unsafe", only to reply with this damp squib, strips them of all credibility. In an era of #MeToo, they knew exactly what they were implying by claiming that the environment was toxic and unsafe.

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Imhof Tank wrote: »

Duh? They are part of the snowflake revolution, encouraged by the likes of the MeToo movement, Serena Williams, OTB and Sport Ireland with their corporate governance workshops laid on to give the pen pushers in Abbotstown something to do.

Maybe, you could be right...

But what about if the counter argument is from those that feel that the women are getting ahead of themselves and so they have latched on to this as a male vs female debate.

I see a lot commenting on this that comment elsewhere along the lines of the world is gone too PC, men are being belittled etc. I think some are using this incident to fight a different battle.

I know I'll be accused here of being a snowflake and feminist and so on but if it's any consolation I got accused in real life at the weekend of being anti-women. I disputed that too. ;)

anthonyjmaher

Another statement (this afternoon) from the Mayo LGFA contradicts the statement from the players last night and backs Leahy - They say the walk out was designed to force him to resign. This is gas. lol

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0918/994546-mayo-lgfa-walkout-statement/

"We feel it was a move designed to wrestle control of the senior team from the management and but for the steadfastness of Peter Leahy, the existing Mayo panel and the County Board it would have succeeded."

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A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

In an era of #MeToo, they knew exactly what they were implying by claiming that the environment was toxic and unsafe.

I suppose I'm wondering why they would have done this if they didn't believe their claims were justified. They knew there were many who were staying on the panel, they knew Peter would defend his position.

I see last night as them doubling down on their claims and I think before they did that, they'd have looked at it and said "lets fade away in to the background" if they didn't truly believe them.

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Tell me how wrote: »

I suppose I'm wondering why they would have done this if they didn't believe their claims were justified.

There's absolutely no doubt but that the players believe they are justified. They are not doing this for the sport of it, clearly.

But sometimes in any group dynamic, opinions and claims can become exaggerated, or assume greater significance than they deserve.

Nothing that the group has said seems to merit the attention it has received. Frankly, it seems like a classic case of one (or a few?) dominant leaders shepherding the others into their personal crusade.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong!