Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

Imhof Tank

And what is this talk of a "work" environment creeping in to this?

Amateur sport is not a work setting in a legal sense.

gormdubhgorm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

There's absolutely no doubt but that the players believe they are justified. They are not doing this for the sport of it, clearly.

But sometimes in any group dynamic, opinions and claims can become exaggerated, or assume greater significance than they deserve.

Nothing that the group has said seems to merit the attention it has received. Frankly, it seems like a classic case of one (or a few?) dominant leaders shepherding the others into their personal crusade.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong!

It seems like this happened:

I think Peter Leahy is the dog in this video.

Faugheen

Lads, I don’t know much about these individuals or their associations, but two of the back-room staff left as well don’t forget.

Whatever about the players, but two members of Leahys own ticket walking out on him as well raises alarm bells in my opinion.

Leahy passes it off as nothing, the players make out that it’s everything.

I think it’s fair to say that what actually happened is somewhere in the middle and that neither side are giving us the true picture.

Faugheen

Listening here and it seems the LGFA released that statement before knowing the details of the players press conference.

Regardless of what’s happened here, the entire situation has been a complete and utter ****-show

Tell me how

Faugheen wrote: »

Listening here and it seems the LGFA released that statement before knowing the details of the players press conference.

Regardless of what’s happened here, the entire situation has been a complete and utter ****-show

Thats kinda what I think. They referenced what I think was clearly Cora Staunton's first interview with OTB as opposed to last nights press conference.

'Furthermore, we wish to express our disappointment at further statements made in a radio interview, whereby the playing environment under the management was deemed as “unhealthy” and she “didn’t feel it was a safe environment”. These remarks have led us to release this statement and we are seeking further advice with regard to them. We must stress that at no stage in our meeting with them were these remarks used. They have further exacerbated the situation and are extremely unhelpful going forward.

Even though that is from todays statement, I think it was written before last nights announcement.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Faugheen wrote:

Lads, I don’t know much about these individuals or their associations, but two of the back-room staff left as well don’t forget.

Well one was the father of one of the players that walked and I believe the other was from Carnacoun so prob had to leave when all the club players left

OldMrBrennan83

Tell me how wrote: »

Thats kinda what I think. They referenced what I think was clearly Cora Staunton's first interview with OTB as opposed to last nights press conference.



Even though that is from todays statement, I think it was written before last nights announcement.

It's not like they said much last night anyway apart from a few more empty accusations.

Tell me how

Raisins wrote: »

It was released this afternoon. It’s in direct response to the press conference. It’s an unbelievable mess now.

No.

https://twitter.com/offtheball/status/1042163858226307073

Imhof Tank

Off The Ball
✔
@offtheball
"We were not aware of mental health issues” – #Mayo Ladies’ county board secretary, Kevin McDonnell.
He also confirmed that tonight was the first time he had heard Sarah Tierney talk of feeling 'isolated' & 'intimidated' under Peter Leahy.


These guys are worse than Fox News on this story. They are making out like the mental health issues revelations change everything (and also a soft implication that the board shouldn't really have missed this from day 1). What yer man clearly meant was the players never mentioned mental health at any stage before Monday night and the old adage "it may harm your defence if you fail to mention something when questioned which you later rely on in evidence..........".

Eoin (?) also seemed to have terrible trouble grasping how mediation works. If no deal is done, then what is said is always confidential and never to be repeated whether in a court later or in the media. That is the central plank of the whole mediation system.

anthonyjmaher

Interesting post by Woolly this morning. This is a clip from a match where Cora Staunton, who was back from Australia, would not let Sarah Rowe take the free kicks (as she had been through the season - before the Queen Bee landed back on Irish soil).

https://twitter.com/Woolberto/status/1042331326932770816

I wonder did Sarah Rowe feel intimidated, undermined and suffer mental health issues due to Cora Staunton's behaviour?

ghostdancer

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Well one was the father of one of the players that walked and I believe the other was from Carnacoun so prob had to leave when all the club players left

yep, Carnacon club man. can't be going up against Queen Cora and the attempted coup....

if anything, it's telling that all the rest of the management staff stayed, along with most of the squad too.

NIMAN

Looks like these players tried to bluff us and had to show their hand...........and they only had a pair of 3s !!

And when you have such a sh1t hand, you gotta play the joker card.......mental health in this case.

anthonyjmaher

They referenced Peter Leahy's statement calling on both sides to stay quiet and stop playing the fight through the media.

Interesting that they said that they got texts from people questioning why they were giving the girls "a free pass". Adrian then went on with a half hearted defence of the OTB position and tried to persist with this facade that they gave fair quarter to both sides. At the end of the section he said that they contacted Peter Leahy weeks ago (which I think was supposed to give them impression that they had been welcoming of the opinions of both sides), but he wasn't prepared to go on to the show. In hindsight, it looks as though the OTB team took Leahy's reluctance to appear on their show as an admission of guilt and ran with that narrative.

Tell me how

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

They referenced Peter Leahy's statement calling on both sides to stay quiet and stop playing the fight through the media.

Interesting that they said that they got texts from people questioning why they were giving the girls "a free pass". Adrian then went on with a half hearted defence of the OTB position and tried to persist with this facade that they gave fair quarter to both sides. At the end of the section he said that they contacted Peter Leahy weeks ago (which I think was supposed to give them impression that they had been welcoming of the opinions of both sides), but he wasn't prepared to go on to the show. In hindsight, it looks as though the OTB team took Leahy's reluctance to appear on their show as an admission of guilt and ran with that narrative.

Well, if it did happen like this, they couldn't have handled it much differently, could they?

Why wouldn't he have gone on the show at the earliest opportunity?
Similarly, the girls should seriously consider going on The GAA hour.

If they offered him to go on, they are welcome of opinions from both sides. There is no giving that impression about it.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Tell me how wrote:

Why wouldn't he have gone on the show at the earliest opportunity? Similarly, the girls should seriously consider going on The GAA hour.

As he said on the GAA hour he only came on because of the stuff Cora said in OTB. He had planned on saying nothing at all. OTB seemed to have picked the players side so cant blame him for not wanting to go on with them after.

I'd have serious questions about why the players who left only had 2 journalists at their press conference the other night which Richie did question last night as well in fairness. They obviously wanted an easy ride as well, the whole thing has become a big PR battle at this stage.

NIMAN

The house of cards is starting to wobble badly.

It's all about to come crashing down.

NIMAN

A good piece by Ewan, saying what we now all know is right:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/ewan-mackenna-women-in-sport-have-been-fighting-hard-for-parity-clearly-on-this-occasion-it-didnt-suit-some-37334309.html

The ladies who rebelled aren't going to come out of this smelling of roses.

Tell me how

NIMAN wrote: »

A good piece by Ewan, saying what we now all know is right:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/ewan-mackenna-women-in-sport-have-been-fighting-hard-for-parity-clearly-on-this-occasion-it-didnt-suit-some-37334309.html

The ladies who rebelled aren't going to come out of this smelling of roses.

And this in the Times today suggests that Peter is owed an apology but also asks the question if a former military instructor had enough of a problem with what was going on, maybe there is more to it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/leahy-s-my-way-or-the-highway-approach-not-doing-him-any-favours-1.3634957

If the ladies had said Monday night they were uncomfortable and Cora had maybe used the wrong words, they'd have egg on their faces but it would now be largely behind them. Surely they had advice to that effect. For them to reinforce their claims is still very curious to me.

bloodless_coup

In this day and age where females can make accusations and the male will automatically lose his reputation and job, they thought they'd get away with it...

NIMAN

doylefe wrote: »

Is this day and age where females can make accusations and the male will automatically lose his reputation and job, they thought they'd get away with it...

We aren't sure if this was their ultimate objective, but they must have known it was a distinct possibility. Harsh if all the man was guilty of was shouting at them, calling a few lazy and telling them they wre playing sh1te.

But I think the minute the county board said that Leahy was going nowhere, had their full backing and would be manager next year, the girls were fecked. It was then that they decided rather than backing down a little and taking the heat, they decided to continue digging the hole, in the hope that the womens side would always be seen as the right one.

Tell me how

doylefe wrote: »

Is this day and age where females can make accusations and the male will automatically lose his reputation and job, they thought they'd get away with it...

NIMAN wrote: »

We aren't sure if this was their ultimate objective, but they must have known it was a distinct possibility. Harsh if all the man was guilty of was shouting at them, calling a few lazy and telling them they wre playing sh1te.

But I think the minute the county board said that Leahy was going nowhere, had their full backing and would be manager next year, the girls were fecked. It was then that they decided rather than backing down a little and taking the heat, they decided to continue digging the hole, in the hope that the womens side would always be seen as the right one.

I'm not so sure. There are a lot of them involved. And none have split ranks.
And the doubling down has me still on the fence, as I have said.

This isn't quite at the Roxanne Pallett level of manipulation but they are being seen in this way by a lot I think.

anthonyjmaher

I think Cora's halo starts to slip when you look at that video with the free kick. I mean she's just back from Australia, and lucky to be even included in the squad after having been away. A lot of teams would not have her back after not training with the team during the winter and league. And even with those concessions, she still thinks that she can take over the free kicks. Peter Leahy probably should have dropped her completely at that stage.

And the other girl, who joined the team in January having been away, said that she had suggested to Peter Leahy that they bring in an unnamed former Mayo footballer to help with the defence. And then claimed that SHE felt undermined. Surely Leahy would have felt undermined by the suggestion that he wasn't coaching the defence properly.

With regard to the former army person. I was thinking the same that surely an ex army employee would be used to discipline, authority, team environments etc etc and would not be involved in exaggerating the situation or making up false claims. But remember, this is the same army that were whinging all over social media that they had to sleep out in the Phoenix Park when the pope was here!

Looking forward to reading McKenna's article, thanks for the link.

Tell me how

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I think Cora's halo starts to slip when you look at that video with the free kick. I mean she's just back from Australia, and lucky to be even included in the squad after having been away. A lot of teams would not have her back after not training with the team during the winter and league. And even with those concessions, she still thinks that she can take over the free kicks. Peter Leahy probably should have dropped her completely at that stage.

And the other girl, who joined the team in January having been away, said that she had suggested to Peter Leahy that they bring in an unnamed former Mayo footballer to help with the defence. And then claimed that SHE felt undermined. Surely Leahy would have felt undermined by the suggestion that he wasn't coaching the defence properly.

With regard to the former army person. I was thinking the same that surely an ex army employee would be used to discipline, authority, team environments etc etc and would not be involved in exaggerating the situation or making up false claims. But remember, this is the same army that were whinging all over social media that they had to sleep out in the Phoenix Park when the pope was here!

Looking forward to reading McKenna's article, thanks for the link.

Something tells me you have a pretty entrenched view on this whole matter. I'm not sure what it is, can't put my finger on it.

gormdubhgorm

NIMAN wrote: »

A good piece by Ewan, saying what we now all know is right:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/ewan-mackenna-women-in-sport-have-been-fighting-hard-for-parity-clearly-on-this-occasion-it-didnt-suit-some-37334309.html

The ladies who rebelled aren't going to come out of this smelling of roses.

This bit amused me.

The we-share-everything-but-you-pay-for-dinner mentality

But, then I can help think that when you think of it in terms of his Dublin financial unfairness arguments, it is more then a bit ironic

Niles Crane

NIMAN wrote: »

A good piece by Ewan, saying what we now all know is right:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/ladies-football/ewan-mackenna-women-in-sport-have-been-fighting-hard-for-parity-clearly-on-this-occasion-it-didnt-suit-some-37334309.html

The ladies who rebelled aren't going to come out of this smelling of roses.

100% correct from McKenna women is sport (and life in general) seem to what parity/equality with men but only the good aspects of it.

If you are playing top level sport you have to accept that getting a bit of a telling off every now and then and some industrial language being used is par for the course.I only played at junior b level and I'd say I was subjected to worse stuff than the Mayo ladies team were this year.

Too many new age journalists seem to want to turn sport in an office like environment.

BPKS

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This bit amused me.

The we-share-everything-but-you-pay-for-dinner mentality

But, then I can help think that when you think of it in terms of his Dublin financial unfairness arguments, it is more then a bit ironic

Explain the irony

sightband

Have absolutely no idea what Giles is trying to say. This sounds like the most drunken nonsensical 4am in the morning conversation between two lads, the other falling asleep trying to humour the drunker of the two that wants to stay up gargling.

NIMAN

sightband wrote: »

Have absolutely no idea what Giles is trying to say. This sounds like the most drunken nonsensical 4am in the morning conversation between two lads, the other falling asleep trying to humour the drunker of the two that wants to stay up gargling.

Listened to him on the way home last night, first time I've heard Giles in a couple of months, and jesus he's getting worse.

He sounds like a man of 90 who can't remember stuff just waffling on and on. He repeats every point he makes about 4 or 5 times and goes round in circles.
But the presenter seems to let him to, can't keep him focused on anything and should intervene more often.

Its a hard listen.

Imhof Tank

NIMAN wrote: »

Listened to him on the way home last night, first time I've heard Giles in a couple of months, and jesus he's getting worse.

He sounds like a man of 90 who can't remember stuff just waffling on and on. He repeats every point he makes about 4 or 5 times and goes round in circles.
But the presenter seems to let him to, can't keep him focused on anything and should intervene more often.

Its a hard listen.

Yeah it just isn't working lately with these younger presenters - not saying that's all their fault, just how it is.

Then you listen to him on Dunphy's pod and he's very good IMO, like a completely different person.

gormdubhgorm

BPKS wrote: »

Explain the irony

Ewan McKenna sees the Mayo issue as women wanting equality.
But when they get equality they are fine as long as it does not cost them anything.
He sniggers at this concept and calls it:

The we-share-everything-but-you-pay-for-dinner mentality

But, it is what McKenna expects Dublin to do in a GAA context.

Let another county (Dublin) pay for the rest so it can be equal.

So he wants Dublin to share everything, finances, support, sponsorship and expertise.
While the other counties pay nothing.
That seems to be McKenna's version of GAA equality.
The Dublin brand has to carry the rest.

dr.kenneth noisewater

I dont think he wants Dublin to pay themselves, he wants the GAA to distribute the funding more equally to the rest of the country

elefant

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ewan McKenna sees the Mayo issue as women wanting equality.
But when they get equality they are fine as long as it does not cost them anything.
He sniggers at this concept and calls it:

The we-share-everything-but-you-pay-for-dinner mentality

But, it is what McKenna expects Dublin to do in a GAA context.

Let another county (Dublin) pay for the rest so it can be equal.

So he wants Dublin to share everything, finances, support, sponsorship and expertise.
While the other counties pay nothing.
That seems to be McKenna's version of GAA equality.
The Dublin brand has to carry the rest.

That's some serious straw-clutching.

gormdubhgorm

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Yeah it just isn't working lately with these younger presenters - not saying that's all their fault, just how it is.

Then you listen to him on Dunphy's pod and he's very good IMO, like a completely different person.

I disagree there.
Dunphy covers for him and couches his questions in such a way that Giles would be able to answer them. With the answer buried in the question, or leads him to the answer.
Mix in a few Giles classic phrases/cliches and that's it.

The same tactic a presenter would use when interviewing a young child.
Or the same tactic the presenter on Sky Sports post-match uses with foreign players.

Presenter (Dunphy) :

John, do you think the team is playing well at this time and the victory is important for the team?

Interviewee (Giles):

Yes, the team is playing well and I think the victory is important for the team.

They showed moral courage, took the game on it's merits there.

And they were not afraid to speculate to accumulate.

Get on the ball like they can.



Presenter (Dunphy) :

Thank you John Giles, fantastic insight from a fantastic former player.

Imhof Tank

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Presenter (Dunphy) :

John, do you think the team is playing well at this time and the victory is important for the team?

Interviewee (Giles):

Yes, the team is playing well and I think the victory is important for the team.

They showed moral courage, took the game on it's merits there.

And they were not afraid to speculate to accumulate.

Get on the ball like they can.



Presenter (Dunphy) :

Thank you John Giles, fantastic insight from a fantastic former player.

Have you actually posted a word for word transcript there or just made that up?

gormdubhgorm

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Have you actually posted a word for word transcript there or just made that up?

Nope, not word for word.
That was just made up completely, from hearing the same stuff over time.

The fact it seems like a word for word, probably says a lot.

Imhof Tank

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Nope, not word for word.
That was just made up completely, from hearing the same stuff over time.

The fact it seems like a word for word, probably says a lot.

Unfair then.

I could go back and post word for word the piece they did with Brady the other week about the Declan Rice, the background to Giles capping Lawrenson, the key role Kerr used to play in recruitment.

Maybe Dunphy does get the best out of him with leading questions. That's my point really. Think your point is he is just past it yeah?

The OTB guys have a totally different style. They are happiest with nerd on nerd scenarios, interviewing their journalist mates who wouldn't be fit to lace Johnny Giles' boots.

gormdubhgorm

I suppose I do think Giles is past it. I would much prefer a recently retired and opinionated former pro.
You make some valid points about otb and thier interviewing style. But they are not footballers.
Eoin Sheehan (for example) was never going to be a commanding midfield presence, he is a bookish type fella.

As for Dunphy's style:
Dunphy should not have to lead Giles by the hand and get him to parrot his own views. It does not make good listening.
In fairness to giles we all have heard his views and stories already.
Name any topic in soccer and I would be able to make a good effort on what Giles would say.

Tell me how

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Name any topic in soccer and I would be able to make a good effort on what Giles would say.

To be fair, could you not say the same about any analyst?
I mean, you wouldn't get it word for word, but you'd have a fair opinion on their position.

(Except maybe Jamie Redknapp)

gormdubhgorm

Tell me how wrote: »

To be fair, could you not say the same about any analyst?
I mean, you wouldn't get it word for word, but you'd have a fair opinion on their position.

(Except maybe Jamie Redknapp)

Yes that might be true in some cases.
But my point is Giles is on a different level of narrowness (opinions/knowledge) when it comes to expressing himself.
As a result questions have to be tailored for him so he can give any kind of interview.


Names of players have to be avoided if possible - Giles can't say them.

Tactical discussions have to be avoided - Giles does not believe in them.

Any discussions beyond the premier league or champions league have to be avoided - Giles does not know much about modern football beyond these teams.
Even though it is easy to research he could not be bothered.
On occasion on the RTE panel he openly said during World Cups/non-British clubs that he does not know anything about the teams.
And jokes were made about it on air!

Giles must only be allowed to discuss generalities at all times -
the dressing room, camaraderie, doing the simple things well, getting on the ball, moral courage etc etc

Dunphy follows all these rules when talking to Giles and guides him along with his leading questions, avoiding all Giles weak interview areas (which is a lot).

So what sort of interview is left it is hardly going to be in-depth?
He is now just venerated because of his age and is a kindly auld lad.
A gent at all times.
But when a soccer fella from a pub could offer more then Giles his time is up.

So when as another poster put it.
The 'journalist nerd' interviews Giles on newstalk it becomes very difficult for them.
As Giles does not make it easy.

What the 'journalist nerd' should do is treat the discussion like with an elderly person in a nursing home, with a strong interest in soccer.
Don't make it too taxing fill in the blanks for them.

gormdubhgorm

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

I dont think he wants Dublin to pay themselves, he wants the GAA to distribute the funding more equally to the rest of the country

But that is making Dublin pay for it in a roundabout way.
Who brings in the most funds to Leinster keeping it afloat with crowds etc - Dublin

Mckenna wants even more handed over to other counties.
But it is basically Dublin paying for thier dinner, doing all the leg work, so other counties can be seen to be strong and independent.
It will be keeping other counties artificially afloat

This is the same mentality that Mckenna calls
"The we-share-everything-but-you-pay-for-dinner mentality"

anthonyjmaher

They are discussing the Mayo ladies issue on the YouTube channel now. the paper review live.
Sinead O'Carroll is on it though, so be pre warned.

anthonyjmaher

Richie thinks the terrible thing about it is that is has all been played out in the media. ffs, who was it that gave Staunton the platform to use the phrases "unsafe" and "player welfare issues"

dr.kenneth noisewater

anthonyjmaher wrote:

They are discussing the Mayo ladies issue on the YouTube channel now. the paper review live. Sinead O'Carroll is on it though, so be pre warned.

She was very good on it on Second Captains during the week in fairness

CatFromHue

Giles has his faults, I do love when he tells the interviewer he's going to get technical and imply's the interviewer might struggle and then starts talking about tracking back or something, but my God I do love his half hour slot on a Thursday.

anthonyjmaher

I see Franno has had a go at the Dublin fans for waving the Palestinian flag this week.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/neil-francis-after-the-atrocities-of-munich-palestinian-flag-should-not-be-flown-at-any-sporting-arena-37345100.html

Haven't heard Gilroy, him who is equally offended by such things, speaking about that. Maybe Franno could come on the show and they could have a flag-off. And then I'll flag off as well.

Raisins

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But that is making Dublin pay for it in a roundabout way.
Who brings in the most funds to Leinster keeping it afloat with crowds etc - Dublin

Mckenna wants even more handed over to other counties.
But it is basically Dublin paying for thier dinner, doing all the leg work, so other counties can be seen to be strong and independent.
It will be keeping other counties artificially afloat

This is the same mentality that Mckenna calls
"The we-share-everything-but-you-pay-for-dinner mentality"

What are you talking about? Read the facts on the funding and then make stupid parallels.

This topic has been done to death and still Dublin fans are pretending not to understand it. It’s worse than Brexit.

Dublin get a level of games development funding comparable to all the other counties in Leinster combined. This has nothing to do with Dublin commercial revenue or the gate receipts. It’s straight GAA funding that they’re getting at a multiple of other counties, only because the GAA were desperate for a strong Dublin team. It’s mission accomplished and that funding has to stop. There are other arguments about commercial revenue being spread and Croke Park as their home venue but that’s the key point.

Niles Crane

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I see Franno has had a go at the Dublin fans for waving the Palestinian flag this week.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/neil-francis-after-the-atrocities-of-munich-palestinian-flag-should-not-be-flown-at-any-sporting-arena-37345100.html

Haven't heard Gilroy, him who is equally offended by such things, speaking about that. Maybe Franno could come on the show and they could have a flag-off. And then I'll flag off as well.

Such a nonsensical article for a rugby journalist to be writing.

There was loads of rugby on during the last week that he could have wrote about but no he decided to right a piece criticizing people for waving a palestinian flag and then stupidly decided the Munich Terrorist attack of 46 years ago was the main reason they shouldn't be doing it .

Francis has serious delusions of himself being a real deep thinker and every now and then he writes a bull**** article like the one in todays paper.

OldMrBrennan83

Are there not Palestinian flags at most GAA games now? Especially up north.

gormdubhgorm

Niles Crane wrote: »

Francis has serious delusions of himself being a real deep thinker and every now and then he writes a bull**** article like the one in todays paper.

Saw that skimmed through it.

It is almost as if he thinks what would an edgy person say?
If I was edgy what would I do?

Then he comes up with stuff that seems to be written in a hurry, and is only thought provoking, if you rarely ventured out of leafy D4.

He did a thing about guns before that went down like a lead balloon as well.
Made no sense.

Does he be talking to Paul Kimmage on his lunch break or something?

Blanco100

Very impressed with their boxing coverage the last few weeks I must say. Aside from Andy Lee they had some other guys on whom I had never heard before and they were very knowledgeable.

Ample opportunity for them to go on a long winded rant of their disapproval of Billy Joe Saunders latest incident but they managed to also discuss all the boxing whilst also rightfully condemning his idiotic stunt.