Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

OldMrBrennan83

I can't listen to him at all. I've tried to get tickets for near every SC show, that was the only one I managed and I didn't use them when I seen it was Neville.

MattressRick

Just on that point about roadshows being good with the right guests, there was one a few years ago with Ray Parlour, Robbie Fowler and I think Andy Cole. Can't remember much about Cole but Parlour had some great stories. A funny guy. I've great time for him since.

howareyakid

MattressRick wrote: »

Just on that point about roadshows being good with the right guests, there was one a few years ago with Ray Parlour, Robbie Fowler and I think Andy Cole. Can't remember much about Cole but Parlour had some great stories. A funny guy. I've great time for him since.

I remember listening to that roadshow - Parlour was excellent. If memory serves me correct he had some great stories about the early days of Wenger and the infamous “Tuesday Club” etc.

deisedude

Kimmage is such a tremendous pain in the hole. Acting like a disappointed school teacher last night scolding Joe about all the things he should have said during the rugby roadshow.

He is obsessed with drugs in rugby but it has been covered to the death this past year. I don't think there was too much appetite to listen to O'Connell sidestep questions about it.

Tell me how

deisedude wrote: »

Kimmage is such a tremendous pain in the hole. Acting like a disappointed school teacher last night scolding Joe about all the things he should have said during the rugby roadshow.

He is obsessed with drugs in rugby but it has been covered to the death this past year. I don't think there was too much appetite to listen to O'Connell sidestep questions about it.

We need people like Kimmage. No ignore it is to tacitly accept it. Then it is a slippery slope to like the NFL where a doping violation can mean a 2 or 4 game suspension or South Africa where unqualified parents are injecting drugs in to their own children.

I for one, would be ok if all performances were less than what they were in the past but we knew that they were clean. We will never get to that point but I wish more were as upfront on the topic as Paul is. If they were, he wouldn't have to be so grumpy all the time.

diusmr8a504cvk

Ewan McKenna making a show of himself this morning.

Muscles Schultz

Brayan Chilly Shoplifter wrote: »

Ewan McKenna making a show of himself this morning.

What did he do?

Tell me how

Muscles Schultz wrote: »

What did he do?

Tried to keep a lid on the hype ahead of Rugby world cup.
He has a point. We've been here before ahead of world cups with "golden generation".

It was 3 against 1 on the show. Entertaining.

diusmr8a504cvk

Tell me how wrote: »

Tried to keep a lid on the hype ahead of Rugby world cup.
He has a point. We've been here before ahead of world cups with "golden generation".

It was 3 against 1 on the show. Entertaining.

He was just spouting crap, going against the grain for the sake of it almost and saying the game on Saturday was just a friendly.

Tell me how

Brayan Chilly Shoplifter wrote: »

He was just spouting crap, going against the grain for the sake of it almost and saying the game on Saturday was just a friendly.

I think the game on Saturday amounted to more than a "friendly" but he's right in that it was not part of a competition.

I think he was also right in that England, South Africa, Australia and NZ are mostly fine with where they are in their cycle. I don't think it is reasonable to suggest Ireland are going to improve from where they are right now as much as the other teams are going to. I think NZ are pretty Ok with having lost Saturday. It's a wake up call. They weren't embarrassed. It was to the 2nd team in the world. They didn't lose any competition as a result of it. That's why Hansen suggested Ireland are #1 now and WC favourites, to take the pressure of his team.


One thing I enjoyed about the piece and think is a similarity between Ewan and Paul Kimmage is that both of them are comfortable with going against public opinion. Ewan spent nearly an hour against 3 people very strongly disagreeing with him and he didn't bat an eyelid. And he had his points to support his argument. Agree or disagree with them, think you have to respect that willingness to take such an approach.

DEFTLEFTHAND

He's exactly right, we've ended up with egg on our face on countless occasions.

Our rugby team remind me of the old English soccer team at times with the hype and bluster.

It all means nothing until next Autumn. The way the pools are structured, baring upsets we're going to play either NZ or South Africa in the QF's. There's a decent chance that we will once again fall at this hurdle.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Tell me how wrote: »

I think the game on Saturday amounted to more than a "friendly" but he's right in that it was not part of a competition.

I think he was also right in that England, South Africa, Australia and NZ are mostly fine with where they are in their cycle. I don't think it is reasonable to suggest Ireland are going to improve from where they are right now as much as the other teams are going to. I think NZ are pretty Ok with having lost Saturday. It's a wake up call. They weren't embarrassed. It was to the 2nd team in the world. They didn't lose any competition as a result of it. That's why Hansen suggested Ireland are #1 now and WC favourites, to take the pressure of his team.


One thing I enjoyed about the piece and think is a similarity between Ewan and Paul Kimmage is that both of them are comfortable with going against public opinion. Ewan spent nearly an hour against 3 people very strongly disagreeing with him and he didn't bat an eyelid. And he had his points to support his argument. Agree or disagree with them, think you have to respect that willingness to take such an approach.

About the piece, is Gilroy normally that aggressive/confrontational? (I'm not sure of the best way to describe the way he came across to be honest? It's the first time I watched Off The Ball rather than listened, so maybe he's like that all the time and it doesn't come across over the airwaves?

Is he as host expected to be impartial, not saying he is, just wondering?

Tell me how

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

About the piece, is Gilroy normally that aggressive/confrontational? (I'm not sure of the best way to describe the way he came across to be honest? It's the first time I watched Off The Ball rather than listened, so maybe he's like that all the time and it doesn't come across over the airwaves?

Is he as host expected to be impartial, not saying he is, just wondering?

Depends on who you ask?

He often has a clear opinion and brings that in to his questioning. I enjoy that because I think it leads to more interesting interviews. I don't see why the host should have to be entirely impartial as long as alternate views are explored. Don't think he's any different in this respect to the likes of Second Captains, Eamon Dunphy etc.

I expect others will tell you that he wants it to be all about him and he shouts over his guests and is only interested in getting his voice heard.

gormdubhgorm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

He's exactly right, we've ended up with egg on our face on countless occasions.

Our rugby team remind me of the old English soccer team at times with the hype and bluster.

It all means nothing until next Autumn. The way the pools are structured, baring upsets we're going to play either NZ or South Africa in the QF's. There's a decent chance that we will once again fall at this hurdle.

Tell me how wrote: »

Tried to keep a lid on the hype ahead of Rugby world cup.
He has a point. We've been here before ahead of world cups with "golden generation".

It was 3 against 1 on the show. Entertaining.

If I had known that Ewan McKenna was saying this about the rugby I might have listened.
It was the first thing I said after the win it is no good if they do not do it in the WC.
For the last 20 years they always made a balls of it in the WC loosing to teams they should be beating, or worse embarrassing themselves against rank outsiders.
They definitely did not over-achieve anyway or even match expectations.
What program/time was it on? Or what podcast?
I should listen to it to see if he said anything I was mouthing about for the last few days.
I suppose part of me is delighted he is not giving out about Dublin GAA funding anymore!

Gentleman Off The Pitch

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

..
They definitely did not over-achieve anyway or even match expectations.
What program/time was it on? Or what podcast?
...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeVWCkis_ak

dominatinMC

Tell me how wrote: »

One thing I enjoyed about the piece and think is a similarity between Ewan and Paul Kimmage is that both of them are comfortable with going against public opinion. Ewan spent nearly an hour against 3 people very strongly disagreeing with him and he didn't bat an eyelid. And he had his points to support his argument. Agree or disagree with them, think you have to respect that willingness to take such an approach.

Well said. We badly need journalists of their ilk. In GAA terms, I think Wooly is a bit like them, outspoken and not afraid to go against the grain. Too many journalists these days exist in an echo chamber, spinning a narrative to suit the public opinion. Contrarians like Ewan and Paul (and Wooly to a lesser extent) can be a breath of fresh air in this PC era.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

dominatinMC wrote: »

Well said. We badly need journalists of their ilk. In GAA terms, I think Wooly is a bit like them, outspoken and not afraid to go against the grain. Too many journalists these days exist in an echo chamber, spinning a narrative to suit the public opinion. Contrarians like Ewan and Paul (and Wooly to a lesser extent) can be a breath of fresh air in this PC era.

Looking at MacKenna's Twitter and even the comments under the Youtube link above, it's amazing how intolerant people of an alternative viewpoint. The attitude among many is that this person has a different opinion to mine and is therefore thinking wrongly and shame on <insert medium here> for giving his opinions airtime

Alf Veedersane

Brayan Chilly Shoplifter wrote: »

He was just spouting crap, going against the grain for the sake of it almost and saying the game on Saturday was just a friendly.

He wasn't really. He didn't take anything away from the effort or the performance.

But its not a match that had anything at stake. It wasn't a friendly, though his use of 'friendly' was because there was nothing really riding on it.

The hype machine went into overdrive and while I have no issue with excitement that we might just be in a position to compete at the business end of the World Cup next year, some of the fawning was cringeworthy.

OldMrBrennan83

I used to never like McKenna because of his constant campaigning against Dublin GAA but the more you listen to him and read his work, it's very hard not to find him interesting and a very good journalist.

dominatinMC

Patww79 wrote: »

I used to never like McKenna because of his constant campaigning against Dublin GAA but the more you listen to him and read his work, it's very hard not to find him interesting and a very good journalist.

Ha, he does go on a lot about Dublin GAA at times, but again he has a lot of facts to back up his arguments. I also think he has got the best interests of the sport at heart, and is not just saying things to be controversial.

OldMrBrennan83

dominatinMC wrote: »

Ha, he does go on a lot about Dublin GAA at times, but again he has a lot of facts to back up his arguments. I also think he has got the best interests of the sport at heart, and is not just saying things to be controversial.

Very true. I don't agree with a lot of his ideas but he lays them out very well and, as you say, he genuinely does seem to have good intentions when you listen to him.

Actually, what show was he on that people are talking about above? I went through all my OtB podcasts and didn't see an episode mention him.

dominatinMC

Patww79 wrote: »

Very true. I don't agree with a lot of his ideas but he lays them out very well and, as you say, he genuinely does seem to have good intentions when you listen to him.

Actually, what show was he on that people are talking about above? I went through all my OtB podcasts and didn't see an episode mention him.

I think they are referring to an appearance on Off The Ball AM, didn't see it myself.

Clonmel1000

Brayan Chilly Shoplifter wrote: »

He was just spouting crap, going against the grain for the sake of it almost and saying the game on Saturday was just a friendly.

It was just a friendly

yosser hughes

dominatinMC wrote: »

Ha, he does go on a lot about Dublin GAA at times, but again he has a lot of facts to back up his arguments. I also think he has got the best interests of the sport at heart, and is not just saying things to be controversial.

God bless your innocence.

The likes of McKenna should not be compared to Kimmage. Paul Kimmage can write for a start.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Patww79 wrote: »

Very true. I don't agree with a lot of his ideas but he lays them out very well and, as you say, he genuinely does seem to have good intentions when you listen to him.

Actually, what show was he on that people are talking about above? I went through all my OtB podcasts and didn't see an episode mention him.

I gave the link just a few posts back. It appears he was invited on a result of these two recent articles

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/ewan-mackenna-the-most-important-rugby-match-this-weekend-isnt-in-dublin-and-it-says-a-lot-about-the-sport-37532181.html

http://www.punditarena.com/features/emackenna/mackenna-monday-rugby-game-irelands-elite/

Alf Veedersane

Patww79 wrote: »

Very true. I don't agree with a lot of his ideas but he lays them out very well and, as you say, he genuinely does seem to have good intentions when you listen to him.

Actually, what show was he on that people are talking about above? I went through all my OtB podcasts and didn't see an episode mention him.

I can't see it on the app but if you go to the website > podcasts > Off The Ball > Rugby on Off The Ball and it's the most recent one

ETA: Or here, as posted earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeVWCkis_ak

Tell me how

Patww79 wrote: »

Actually, what show was he on that people are talking about above? I went through all my OtB podcasts and didn't see an episode mention him.

I can see both sides to the arguments here and I enjoyed the amount of depth they gave on this.

Ironic thing is that just last week Ewan said that he would be giving Twitter a break for a couple of weeks because he couldn't be dealing with some of the stuff on it.

two wheels good

I heard:
- rugby supporters going to a match "show no adrenaline"
- gratitude to the premiership for sustaining irish peoples' interest in soccer.

Such crap! The premiership - opium of the masses.
Must remember not to bother tuning in again.
Though there was a good boxing dicussion on Joe Louis recently.

gormdubhgorm

two wheels good wrote: »

I heard:
- rugby supporters going to a match "show no adrenaline"
- gratitude to the premiership for sustaining irish peoples' interest in soccer.

Such crap! The premiership - opium of the masses.
Must remember not to bother tuning in again.
Though there was a good boxing dicussion on Joe Louis recently.

I thought Ewan did alright until he went off the cliff and started going on about tears.
It sounded like he was just taking the p at that stage 'Dunphy-lite'.
But amongst the guff he did make some valid points, I suppose if you fire enough bullets/opinions like he does some are going to hit.
It was fairly funny at stages what the show needs more of a bit of real angst among the pundits.
Varying opinions etc.

ghostdancer

McKenna went a bit OTT/wind-up at times, but overall he was pretty correct in what he said IMO.

had to laugh after he brought up the Murray/Zebo threesome video incident and the lads sat there for a few seconds not sure what to say :pac:

CatFromHue

ghostdancer wrote: »

had to laugh after he brought up the Murray/Zebo threesome video incident and the lads sat there for a few seconds not sure what to say :pac:

why did he bring that up? what's it got to do with anything?

pc7

I felt he was being contrary for the sake of it, some points fair enough but some were embarrassing. Especially the crying stuff, no need for that.
In 2015 we didn’t fook up the World Cup we were decimated with injury and the key thing Saturday showed is we’ve worked to have a system we’re other players can step in.
I was at the match, it was amazing, both sides gave it all, the crowd were unbelievable. Anything can happen in ten months time so we’ll see them, I don’t believe any fan is naive enough to believe we can win based on one game, but it’s a huge monkey off the back. the ‘superhero’ article he referenced was pure tongue in cheek.
Ewan ain’t pissing in my cornflakes on this one.

irishguitarlad

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

About the piece, is Gilroy normally that aggressive/confrontational? (I'm not sure of the best way to describe the way he came across to be honest? It's the first time I watched Off The Ball rather than listened, so maybe he's like that all the time and it doesn't come across over the airwaves?

Is he as host expected to be impartial, not saying he is, just wondering?

He always comes across that way to me, really grumpy as well. I prefer the lad with the red hair that's on with him and the guy on Fridays. To be fair there much better presenters on off the ball than him.

Alf Veedersane

CatFromHue wrote: »

why did he bring that up? what's it got to do with anything?

The point was that the rugby players/teams get an easier ride in the media in general, ie that whole story and video was put to bed fairly quickly at the time.

yosser hughes

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The point was that the rugby players/teams get an easier ride in the media in general, ie that whole story and video was put to bed fairly quickly at the time.

All those types of stories are put to bed quickly in Ireland. Why do you think there's never any political sex scandals like the UK? Are our politicians more chaste? Same goes for any other public figure.
The fact is with our libel laws,the media are afraid to go there.
Even when there are actual charges, which there weren't in this case.
Look at the Tom Humphreys story. It was barely touched for years until the actual trial.
It's not peculiar to rugby players.
There's an undercurrent of resentment from certain quarters that can't just be happy for the Irish rugby team,even if it's not your sport.
It's inverted snobbery or something.
The fact that a lot of this comes from English Premier League supporters just makes the whole thing more ridiculous.

Tell me how

pc7 wrote: »

I felt he was being contrary for the sake of it, some points fair enough but some were embarrassing. Especially the crying stuff, no need for that.

He has a point.

It is indicative of what constitutes meeting or exceeding targets when someone was so overwhelmed in such a circumstance. It does indicate that they were not expecting to be involved in more critical matches later in the tournament.
Ergo they did not have the resolve to overcome the challenge in the next game.

Which is pretty much exactly what happened.

Alf Veedersane

yosser hughes wrote: »

All those types of stories are put to bed quickly in Ireland. Why do you think there's never any political sex scandals like the UK? Are our politicians more chaste? Same goes for any other public figure.
The fact is with our libel laws,the media are afraid to go there.
Even when there are actual charges, which there weren't in this case.
Look at the Tom Humphreys story. It was barely touched for years until the actual trial.
It's not peculiar to rugby players.
There's an undercurrent of resentment from certain quarters that can't just be happy for the Irish rugby team,even if it's not your sport.
It's inverted snobbery or something.
The fact that a lot of this comes from English soccer supporters just makes the whole thing more ridiculous.

The point wasn't laboured much, to be fair. More was made about why Rory Best wasn't really pulled up on turning up at the Belfast trial, about Munster bringing in Grobbler, about scouting in South Africa where drug use seems to be rife amongst schools players. It's not that it is ever flagged but that it's fairly muted in the media as a whole.

anthonyjmaher

Ewan doesn't help himself with the sort of arrogant/righteous manner in which he speaks. And for a journalist he got quite a few facts wrong, which Gilroy took delight in correcting him.

But his point is essentially right. It was a great win, but it really means nothing without reaching at least a semi final of the RWC.

elefant

Tell me how wrote: »

It is indicative of what constitutes meeting or exceeding targets when someone was so overwhelmed in such a circumstance. It does indicate that they were not expecting to be involved in more critical matches later in the tournament.
Ergo they did not have the resolve to overcome the challenge in the next game.

This is complete conjecture.

It's a pretty big leap to extrapolate from someone being emotional after winning a big game to everything else you've mentioned there. Dropping in an 'Ergo' at the end doesn't make it any less of a leap.

If the message is to temper expectations, that's fair enough. The above is just waffle.

Tell me how

elefant wrote: »

This is complete conjecture.

It's a pretty big leap to extrapolate from someone being emotional after winning a big game to everything else you've mentioned there. Dropping in an 'Ergo' at the end doesn't make it any less of a leap.

If the message is to temper expectations, that's fair enough. The above is just waffle.

SMH.

We've different opinions on this. I'm fine with that.

Icemancometh

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

CatFromHue wrote: »

why did he bring that up? what's it got to do with anything?

The point was that the rugby players/teams get an easier ride in the media in general, ie that whole story and video was put to bed fairly quickly at the time.

And rightly put to bed. People having sex is hardly newsworthy. Dwelling on the story would only have been prurient.

Tell me how

Icemancometh wrote: »

And rightly put to bed. People having sex is hardly newsworthy. Dwelling on the story would only have been prurient.

I broadly agree.

But, if it had been GAA or Soccer players involved, do you think it would have faded as quickly?

yosser hughes

Tell me how wrote: »

I broadly agree.

But, if it had been GAA or Soccer players involved, do you think it would have faded as quickly?

Yes. Why do you think otherwise? If you you do think otherwise, why do you think the treatment would be different,?

Utopia Parkway

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

Ewan doesn't help himself with the sort of arrogant/righteous manner in which he speaks. And for a journalist he got quite a few facts wrong, which Gilroy took delight in correcting him.

But his point is essentially right. It was a great win, but it really means nothing without reaching at least a semi final of the RWC.

There's actually been a lot of basic errors in his recent articles which have been corrected after people have pointed them out on Twitter. I'd say he's been in a rush to get content out to ride this latest wave of controversy that his fact checking has been put to the side. Ewan MacKenna's articles are often interesting and well researched but I have no doubt that he 100% plays up being a contrarian and going against the grain for the sake of it as it gets him attention and gets him paid. He's carved out that niche for himself now that the usual contrarians in the industry are getting on in age.

I remember during the Summer he wrote an article after the Kildare v Galway game castigating Galway for stuff that happened off the ball in the match. Ewan wasn't at the match in Newbridge, he was in Brazil yet he can spot things happening off the ball through his laptop screen in another continent? I just found it completely disingenuous.

Some of his stuff can be really good to be fair but there's a lot of nonsense in there as well. You just have to sift through it. I will give him this. He won't back down from his argument. I've never seen him admit to being wrong or mistaken about anything. He will stubbornly argue his point no matter how off the wall it seems.

CatFromHue

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The point wasn't laboured much, to be fair. More was made about why Rory Best wasn't really pulled up on turning up at the Belfast trial, about Munster bringing in Grobbler, about scouting in South Africa where drug use seems to be rife amongst schools players. It's not that it is ever flagged but that it's fairly muted in the media as a whole.

Best was asked about why he went to the trial and there was a big media inquest into Grobbler.

The Grobbler thing was very big so I dunno why anyone is saying it was muted.

@ Utopia Parkway, I've only read a few of MacKenna's rugby articles and I've found them to have some errors, mistruths and also some comparisons which aren't like for like but give him his desired outcome. So whatever grain of truth or point he is trying to get across is lost.

He also takes the negative out of every possible situation and his twitter account is a genuine cesspit.

It's worked for him as he's a lot more prominent in the media now, it just doesn't mean he's right.

Tell me how

CatFromHue wrote: »

Best was asked about why he went to the trial and there was a big media inquest into Grobbler.

The Grobbler thing was very big so I dunno why anyone is saying it was muted.

@ Utopia Parkway, I've only read a few of MacKenna's rugby articles and I've found them to have some errors, mistruths and also some comparisons which aren't like for like but give him his desired outcome. So whatever grain of truth or point he is trying to get across is lost.

He also takes the negative out of every possible situation and his twitter account is a genuine cesspit.

It's worked for him as he's a lot more prominent in the media now, it just doesn't mean he's right.

I think he's right more often than not on the central tone of his pieces but they often make for uncomfortable reading and so people pick any fairly innocuous errors and say "Oh he got that wrong so he's a bluffer."

Very similar to Paul Kimmage again, around the time of the talk about doping in rugby when he and Luke Fitzgerald went head to head Paul got the name of a player or a club wrong in some conversation and many were saying that he hadn't a clue because of that error. I think that's missing the point.

Jayesdiem

I just listened to it there. I’m usually a fan of Ewan McKenna and the opposite of Ger Gilroy, but they changed roles for me here. Ruairdhi O’Connor was as good as he usually is. McKenna’s stance was nasty and vindictive. There was an element of jealousy to it too. Really unsavoury stuff.

Tell me how

Jayesdiem wrote: »

I just listened to it there. I’m usually a fan of Ewan McKenna and the opposite of Ger Gilroy, but they changed roles for me here. Ruairdhi O’Connor was as good as he usually is. McKenna’s stance was nasty and vindictive. There was an element of jealousy to it too. Really unsavoury stuff.

In what way?

Jayesdiem

Tell me how wrote: »

In what way?

I should have known you’d disagree. In the way that he seems to hate rugby, despite being somewhat knowledgeable on it. He also needs to stop calling it New ZeaLAND.

MD1990

Have a look at McKenna articles here https://www.independent.ie/opinion/independent-journalists/ewan-mackenna/

I do agree with his points at times. But look how negative all his articles are. His tone in the articles I did read are often condescending of a different point of view also.



I am not a fan of Rugby at all but to say it is just a friendly in unfair. New Zealand players looked devasted after the game saturday.