Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

diusmr8a504cvk

Jayesdiem wrote: »

He also needs to stop calling it New ZeaLAND.

Nonstop. I was fit to throw the phone out the window.

CatFromHue

Tell me how wrote: »

I think he's right more often than not on the central tone of his pieces but they often make for uncomfortable reading and so people pick any fairly innocuous errors and say "Oh he got that wrong so he's a bluffer."

Very similar to Paul Kimmage again, around the time of the talk about doping in rugby when he and Luke Fitzgerald went head to head Paul got the name of a player or a club wrong in some conversation and many were saying that he hadn't a clue because of that error. I think that's missing the point.

I'm not sure if this backs up my side or yours :pac: but from his last article

Being the number two side in the world is an historical high - and there is no denying that that takes serious going from a set-up that have been superb - and thus facing the very best in New Zealand on Saturday brings intrigue, although it's not a true barometer either.

That's because the real test of any wannabe great team, and we've had over a decade of hearing about great Irish teams, is the pinnacle of competition. The Six Nations wins were damn good and won't be forgotten, but how often is the failure to just once get beyond the last eight in what amounts to a nine-team World Cup used as an asterisk beside, and an anchor attached, to the memories of recent seasons?

In real time we've seen this self-deception play out as if mirror, mirror on the wall.

The acceptance and lack of criticism of Brian O'Driscoll's excitement at a mere pool win over Australia in 2011, as Ronan O'Gara described that as a "great" team that would go on to do the bare minimum.

Ian Madigan's premature tears on the field after a group win against France last time.

In a way, our deifying for so little has hindered these sides, giving them a free pass rather than demanding more from so many groups laced with potential. This one has arguably the most potential, but can only deliver in 2019.

For all the RWC's up to 2003 Ireland would have been ranked 7th, 8th or 9th if the rankings existed. Ireland used to be a terrible team.

In the 1995 5N Ireland won one game against Wales and finished 4th, ahead of Wales. In 1999 Ireland again won only one game and finished 4th. In 1991 Ireland finished 4th ahead of Wales on points difference, we lost 3 and drew 1. In 1987 we surprisingly finished 2nd!

It's only from the early 2000's when Ireland started to be not ****e. In 2003 6N we finished 2nd but were annihilated by the winners England and were still miles off the SH teams.

In 2007 we started to get notions and think we could do stuff as we'd been not ****e for the previous few years. The team didn't perform and when they were knocked out Eddie O'Sullivan was asked on the touchline would he resign. He didn't and managed to limp on til the end of the following 6N when he resigned then.

The reasons why BOD and ROG were so happy to beat Australia in 2011 was because we so very rarely did it. Ireland were poor in their loss to Wales in the QFs and it marked the beginning of the end for Declan Kidney.

In 2015 Ireland lost 4 of our main players going into the QF game. Four players is a lot but even still there were fans not happy with how we performed, and rightly too.

So this whole Ireland's great teams is in perspective to how poor we used to be, not in relation to the All Blacks or traditional big teams. Before 2009 it was something like in the 40's when Ireland last won the 5N. Even then Irish management used to come in for some big criticism. A lack of perspective suits what Mackenna wants to do, have a go, but isn't accurate.

And that truth is there's an awful lot of people who don't like rugby. It's often not the game itself, but what's associated with it that causes such unease.

The elitism.

The hush around Munster and their scouting and signing of South African talent given what we know of how they go about their business down there.

A bending of the rules with the likes of CJ Stander and Bundee Aki purchased and proclaimed Irish for weeping to a Phil Coulter song.

And then there's that idea that this is rugby country.

That grates most for it's proclaimed with a smugness and a presumption from on high, and with a straight face when it's false. It's easy to disprove of course, as nobody is showing up for AIL games, the provinces average under 14,000 each per Pro 14 game, and who even knew Germany were playing Canada in the game of the weekend in a contest that has big World Cup ramifications?

Munster's current and previous head coaches are South African and they have 4 SA players in their squad at the moment, not incl CJ Stander. All 4, from what I can see, were signed by either of those two coaches, most by Erasmus. So this hush about how Munster do their scouting doesn't make sense.

I don't know what bending of the rules there are for CJ and Aki, both were signed as project players and adhered to the 3 year residency rule before becoming eligible for Ireland. This rule isn't a fan favourite and has since been pushed out to 5 years. Have either of them weeped to Ireland's Call? I dunno but it suits MacKenna to say they did.

The phrase "this is rugby country" is from a Guinness ad, every rugby fan in Ireland knows rugby is Ireland's 3 or 4th favourite sport. I don't know who's proclaiming it from on high, other than Guinness in their ads. Are Guinness now the official spokesperson for all rugby fans in Ireland? No, but it suits MacKenna to portray them as.

As for the 14K average attendance for Pro14 games, when you think that the season is from September to May that average is actually pretty good. Going to rugby games in Ireland is usually a cold to very cold, damp experience weather wise.

Jayesdiem

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not sure if this backs up my side or yours :pac: but from his last article



For all the RWC's up to 2003 Ireland would have been ranked 7th, 8th or 9th if the rankings existed. Ireland used to be a terrible team.

In the 1995 5N Ireland won one game against Wales and finished 4th, ahead of Wales. In 1999 Ireland again won only one game and finished 4th. In 1991 Ireland finished 4th ahead of Wales on points difference, we lost 3 and drew 1. In 1987 we surprisingly finished 2nd!

It's only from the early 2000's when Ireland started to be not ****e. In 2003 6N we finished 2nd but were annihilated by the winners England and were still miles off the SH teams.

In 2007 we started to get notions and think we could do stuff as we'd been not ****e for the previous few years. The team didn't perform and when they were knocked out Eddie O'Sullivan was asked on the touchline would he resign. He didn't and managed to limp on til the end of the following 6N when he resigned then.

The reasons why BOD and ROG were so happy to beat Australia in 2011 was because we so very rarely did it. Ireland were poor in their loss to Wales in the QFs and it marked the beginning of the end for Declan Kidney.

In 2015 Ireland lost 4 of our main players going into the QF game. Four players is a lot but even still there were fans not happy with how we performed, and rightly too.

So this whole Ireland's great teams is in perspective to how poor we used to be, not in relation to the All Blacks or traditional big teams. Before 2009 it was something like in the 40's when Ireland last won the 5N. Even then Irish management used to come in for some big criticism. A lack of perspective suits what Mackenna wants to do, have a go, but isn't accurate.



Munster's current and previous head coaches are South African and they have 4 SA players in their squad at the moment, not incl CJ Stander. All 4, from what I can see, were signed by either of those two coaches, most by Erasmus. So this hush about how Munster do their scouting doesn't make sense.

I don't know what bending of the rules there are for CJ and Aki, both were signed as project players and adhered to the 3 year residency rule before becoming eligible for Ireland. This rule isn't a fan favourite and has since been pushed out to 5 years. Have either of them weeped to Ireland's Call? I dunno but it suits MacKenna to say they did.

The phrase "this is rugby country" is from a Guinness ad, every rugby fan in Ireland knows rugby is Ireland's 3 or 4th favourite sport. I don't know who's proclaiming it from on high, other than Guinness in their ads. Are Guinness now the official spokesperson for all rugby fans in Ireland? No, but it suits MacKenna to portray them as.

As for the 14K average attendance for Pro14 games, when you think that the season is from September to May that average is actually pretty good. Going to rugby games in Ireland is usually a cold to very cold, damp experience weather wise.

Finally some perspective. I’ll also add some of my own.

The popularity of a sport cannot be judged by playing numbers alone. You also have to take into account other factors. You wouldn’t think soccer is the most popular sport in Ireland given the large swathes of green empty seats at Ireland’s home games and general apathy towards the team and domestic league, yet it is. Meanwhile rugby tickets are difficult to come by. Isn’t it also odd that Ireland’s biggest rugby matches often feature in the top few most watched sporting events on the year. What about these measures of popularity?

To defer to the playing numbers thing is far too simplistic. I know fellas who bloody love the game but don’t want to run the risk of getting bashed around the place on a Saturday afternoon because of the risk of sustaining a broken bone which would then impact on their working life. For them, it’s far easier to be an armchair fan and have a 5 aside kick about 2 or 3 times a week. Safer option for a self employed father of 3 whose family’s feeding depends on the use of his limbs. Extrapolate that throughout the country and it’ll go some way to explaining lower player numbers.

At the end of the day McKenna is behaving in an envious, immature way. As an Irish person I cheer on all teams representing Ireland. I can’t say demographics or playing numbers or emotional players or the manner of media coverage have ever really affected that decision and I can’t understand McKenna’s bitterness.

EDIT: No mention either of that great patriot Declan Rice who flaunted soccer’s even more ridiculous rules of eligibility to play for a country he doesn’t want anything to do with.

Dots1982

A fair appraisal from one of the only Irish journos who is balanced regarding the Irish team.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/daniel-mcdonnell-five-great-nights-undone-by-51-defeat-37553837.html

sightband

One thing I’ve noticed about McKenna’s tweets that I’ve noticed is just how poorly written they are. They aren’t just typos. I wonder how much of his articles he actually writes.

Dots1982

sightband wrote: »

One thing I’ve noticed about McKenna’s tweets that I’ve noticed is just how poorly written they are. They aren’t just typos. I wonder how much of his articles he actually writes.

Bad spelling/punctuation isn’t the reason for that.

You might notice the later in the day it is the more badly written his tweets become.

I’ll leave it up to you why that might be.

anthonyjmaher

Dots1982 wrote: »

You might notice the later in the day it is the more badly written his tweets become. I’ll leave it up to you why that might be.

He's texting while attending Samba classes?

gormdubhgorm

Dots1982 wrote: »

A fair appraisal from one of the only Irish journos who is balanced regarding the Irish team.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/daniel-mcdonnell-five-great-nights-undone-by-51-defeat-37553837.html

Five great nights me hoop, the win against Italy was thier cobbled together B team with nothing to play for.So I think the myth is greater then fact on that for a start.

CatFromHue

sightband wrote: »

One thing I’ve noticed about McKenna’s tweets that I’ve noticed is just how poorly written they are. They aren’t just typos. I wonder how much of his articles he actually writes.

If he didn't tweet so much giving out about rugby you could give him more slack for the mistakes he makes in his articles. It's clear from his twitter account that he has a major problem with the game and so is making the mistakes in his accounts on purpose i.e. they're not mistakes.

Tell me how

CatFromHue wrote: »

If he didn't tweet so much giving out about rugby you could give him more slack for the mistakes he makes in his articles. It's clear from his twitter account that he has a major problem with the game and so is making the mistakes in his accounts on purpose i.e. they're not mistakes.

He's fine with the game. He has a problem with some of the hype around it.

Tell me how

I've noticed that more and more they are pushing content as it is being created. For example, right now, Matt Williams talking to Joe is available on Twitter (probably on FB as well). The same with the Keith Andrews show and the Sunday Paper Review.
I'm sure the same interview will be played out tonight. It's normal to prerecord content but I am curious about making it available ahead of the show. They must be willing to lose listeners from the radio show when going this route and this could ultimately impact on ratings and advertisement rates for the show.

I wonder what the strategy is around it.

CatFromHue

Tell me how wrote: »

He's fine with the game. He has a problem with some of the hype around it.

he pretty much tweets constantly giving out about various aspects of the game, he's not fine with it.

Tell me how wrote: »

I've noticed that more and more they are pushing content as it is being created. For example, right now, Matt Williams talking to Joe is available on Twitter (probably on FB as well). The same with the Keith Andrews show and the Sunday Paper Review.
I'm sure the same interview will be played out tonight. It's normal to prerecord content but I am curious about making it available ahead of the show. They must be willing to lose listeners from the radio show when going this route and this could ultimately impact on ratings and advertisement rates for the show.

I wonder what the strategy is around it.

I don't know how these things work for other people but I tend to only listen to the radio when I'm in the car or the gym.

I do look at youtube when i get home though.

So for me it's increasing how much I tune in by them putting their stuff on youtube.

As for them putting it out before it going on the radio has no affect on my listenership.

Stargazer7

I was finding the whole "The FAI have an agenda and this new soccer deal is a disaster waiting to happen" schtick a bit tiresome and forced for the sake of something to complain about. I do get their point but I find that the OTB team can be like a dog with a bone sometimes with stuff like this. Righteous indignation of a form.

Kinda enjoying Kenny Cunningham just shoot the whole theory down this evening on the show fairly effectively :pac:

diusmr8a504cvk

Turned off the other morning when they had Andy Lee on, hard to listen to them trying to get info out of a boxer about other sports that he's not that informed about.
For the same reason I didn't tune in for Jack McAffrey, and the fact that I despise the GAA

Imhof Tank

Keith Andrews doing the interview with Gilesy there last night and the dynamic was totally different (better) compared to when one of the staffers does it. Most points were prefaced with "as you know yourself as a former pro.......".

diusmr8a504cvk

John Duggan on the betting show is like a hybrid between a used car salesman and someone on one of those gameshows where you have to ring in.

jk23

The elephant is the room with women’s sport is most of it compared to men’s stuff is boring to watch and a poorer product

yosser hughes

jk23 wrote: »

The elephant is the room with women’s sport is most of it compared to men’s stuff is boring to watch and a poorer product

Switched it off. How long have OTB been banging this drum? I wish they'd spend as much time on LOI football.
Why do they feel they need to be advocates? Women's sports need more women to support them really. Most aren't arsed with sport and you can't force people to like something.
It's not the focking patriarchy!!

jk23

yosser hughes wrote: »

Switched it off. How long have OTB been banging this drum? I wish they'd spend as much time on LOI football.
Why do they feel they need to be advocates? Women's sports need more women to support them really. Most aren't arsed with sport and you can't force people to like something.
It's not the focking patriarchy!!

They are on feminist fm that’s why they are doing it

Tell me how

yosser hughes wrote: »

Switched it off. How long have OTB been banging this drum? I wish they'd spend as much time on LOI football.
Why do they feel they need to be advocates? Women's sports need more women to support them really. Most aren't arsed with sport and you can't force people to like something.
It's not the focking patriarchy!!

Any chance it's because they are a national radio station providing content for both genders? Look at the crowd when the camera pans to it at a sporting event. There are plenty women who attend.

I agree, soccer, GAA, and Rugby output is not comparable in quality to the male equivalent but that is hardly a reason to ignore it.

Ol' Donie

jk23 wrote: »

The elephant is the room with women’s sport is most of it compared to men’s stuff is boring to watch and a poorer product

Yeah.

No one has ever mentioned that.

jk23

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Yeah.

No one has ever mentioned that.

Why do they keep asking the same questions then??

anthonyjmaher

jk23 wrote: »

The elephant is the room with women’s sport is most of it compared to men’s stuff is boring to watch and a poorer product

Trying to beat us all over the head, and it turns out one of the guests had to google another guest to find out who she was before the show. Give me a break. Let people watch what they want.



OTB probably only want to make women's sport big so that they can get Leon Blanch in to talking gambling on it, and they can all monetize it.

CatFromHue

Tell me how wrote: »

He's fine with the game. He has a problem with some of the hype around it.

I'm not having a go but did you check his twitter account this week?

It's embarrassing, and that's not including the tweet he deleted.

He's far from fine with the game. I dunno why but he's either blinded by his hatred or quite happily lead by his hatred of it.

anthonyjmaher

The way that they are going on, you'd swear that there were men picketing women's rugby.

jk23

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

The way that they are going on, you'd swear that there were men picketing women's rugby.

Is the film any good?

yosser hughes

Tell me how wrote: »

Any chance it's because they are a national radio station providing content for both genders? Look at the crowd when the camera pans to it at a sporting event. There are plenty women who attend.

I agree, soccer, GAA, and Rugby output is not comparable in quality to the male equivalent but that is hardly a reason to ignore it.

This isn't providing content. It's whining about lack of coverage and pretending this somehow addresses it.
If they were so concerned , they'd do live commentary on women's games.
They won't because there isn't an audience for it.
These regular chats are tokenism really and fulfills the lad's virtue signalling quota. Nothing more than that and it actually patronises women. How many women are even listening? SFA I'd say.

Clonmel1000

Brayan Chilly Shoplifter wrote: »

Turned off the other morning when they had Andy Lee on, hard to listen to them trying to get info out of a boxer about other sports that he's not that informed about.
For the same reason I didn't tune in for Jack McAffrey, and the fact that I despise the GAA

Despising the gaa seems to be en vogue for the 2 men and their dogs that follow the LOI. I don’t despise anything so irrelevant as LOI football.

yosser hughes

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Despising the gaa seems to be en vogue for the 2 men and their dogs that follow the LOI. I don’t despise anything so irrelevant as LOI football.

Hadn't heard that. Most people just follow their sport or many sports and don't feel the need to criticise others.

You do despise anything that isn't GAA though; rugby in particular , am I right?

deisedude

I don't understand why people need to publically say they hate another sport. If you don't like it fine, don't piss on everyone's cornflakes that do like it

diusmr8a504cvk

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Despising the gaa seems to be en vogue for the 2 men and their dogs that follow the LOI. I don’t despise anything so irrelevant as LOI football.

Let me know when you've been to a game mate.
Have fun watching 'de pool' in the pub tomorrow.

Coillte_Bhoy

Joe Molly surprised me yesterday discussing the Euro 2020 draw, i dont know how many times he said we would have friendly dates in June as Switzerland would be in the Nations League semi final and possibly final. Talk about being poorly informed. :mad:

Dots1982

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Joe Molly surprised me yesterday discussing the Euro 2020 draw, i dont know how many times he said we would have friendly dates in June as Switzerland would be in the Nations League semi final and possibly final. Talk about being poorly informed. :mad:

Richie Sadlier said the same thing in RTÉ.

Dan McDonnell quickly figured out on twitter that with 5 teams in the group, just because Switzerland aren’t available doesn’t mean there aren’t 4 other teams in the group that can play each other.

yosser hughes

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Joe Molly surprised me yesterday discussing the Euro 2020 draw, i dont know how many times he said we would have friendly dates in June as Switzerland would be in the Nations League semi final and possibly final. Talk about being poorly informed. :mad:

Listening to Joe Molloy talking about the boxing tonight perfectly illustrates his relationship with sports. He's smarmy and clueless and eventually resorts to what he thinks are witticisms.
Joe is a media graduate who happened to end up in sport because he wouldn't be able for much else. Golf is his game and god it shows.
His blandness is his asset.
I really wish all of them would stop trying to be funny.

Tell me how

yosser hughes wrote: »

Listening to Joe Molloy talking about the boxing tonight perfectly illustrates his relationship with sports. He's smarmy and clueless and eventually resorts to what he thinks are witticisms.
Joe is a media graduate who happened to end up in sport because he wouldn't be able for much else. Golf is his game and god it shows.
His blandness is his asset.
I really wish all of them would stop trying to be funny.

Show tonight is absolutely fine. Gary Breen talking about EPL yesterday and Euro 2020 draw and Andy Lee on now about Fury. Very good so far.

"Joe wouldn't be able for much else" :D:D:D What does that actually mean?

yosser hughes

Tell me how wrote: »

Show tonight is absolutely fine. Gary Breen talking about EPL yesterday and Euro 2020 draw and Andy Lee on now about Fury. Very good so far.

"Joe wouldn't be able for much else" :D:D:D What does that actually mean?

what do you think it means?

Tell me how

yosser hughes wrote: »

what do you think it means?

Pretty sure it means you don't know what you are talking about.

yosser hughes

Tell me how wrote: »

Pretty sure it means you don't know what you are talking about.

Good man. There's really nothing complicated about my statement, it's not opaque in any way.

Tell me how

yosser hughes wrote: »

Good man. There's really nothing complicated about my statement, it's not opaque in any way.

Maybe, but it might make some sense if the person you were speaking about wasn't awarded sports broadcaster of the year 3 times and is host of Virgin Media Rugby.

He has proven to be very capable of the role which he fills and your original post makes no sense in that context.

redbuck

Tell me how wrote: »

Maybe, but it might make some sense if the person you were speaking about wasn't awarded sports broadcaster of the year 3 times and is host of Virgin Media Rugby.

He has proven to be very capable of the role which he fills and your original post makes no sense in that context.

Come on it’s time to drop the facade.

You’re clearly connected to the show in some way. You won’t let anyone give constructive criticism of the show without a staunch defence, it’s a bit ridiculous really.

Ahwell

redbuck wrote: »

Come on it’s time to drop the facade.

You’re clearly connected to the show in some way. You won’t let anyone give constructive criticism of the show without a staunch defence, it’s a bit ridiculous really.

Constructive criticism? On the Radio Forum? You are joking? He is right. Joe's career is doing just fine, as is Off the Ball in the only measure that matters - JNLR Listenership Figures. A conscious of opinion of a handful of regulars on here doesn't amount to much really. No radio show/presenter is going to please everybody.

NIMAN

Is that you Joe?

Ahwell

Nope.

Coillte_Bhoy

yosser hughes wrote: »

Listening to Joe Molloy talking about the boxing tonight perfectly illustrates his relationship with sports. He's smarmy and clueless and eventually resorts to what he thinks are witticisms.
Joe is a media graduate who happened to end up in sport because he wouldn't be able for much else. Golf is his game and god it shows.
His blandness is his asset.
I really wish all of them would stop trying to be funny.

I quite like him as a presenter, was just surprised that he kept coming out with this ill informed point

Coillte_Bhoy

Dots1982 wrote: »

Richie Sadlier said the same thing in RT

Dan McDonnell quickly figured out on twitter that with 5 teams in the group, just because Switzerland aren’t available doesn’t mean there aren’t 4 other teams in the group that can play each other.

Ya, it was blatantly obvious what the dates would be if we were drawn in a group with one of the teams from the NL, pot if they had done the slightest bit for research beforehand. Someone told me that Sadlier was also totally confused as to the play offs situation, didnt see that myself

Dots1982

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Ya, it was blatantly obvious what the dates would be if we were drawn in a group with one of the teams from the NL, pot if they had done the slightest bit for research beforehand. Someone told me that Sadlier was also totally confused as to the play offs situation, didnt see that myself

I am mystified my sadlier’s career in media. He has nothing interesting to say and answers most questions he’s posed with a question.

But some do like him and I think some need to remember that when they are discussing joe molloy. Just because you stick up for someone doesn’t mean you have an agenda.

gormdubhgorm

Dots1982 wrote: »

I am mystified my sadlier’s career in media. He has nothing interesting to say and answers most questions he’s posed with a question.

He is the 'thinking man's pundit' - the philosopher always makes of points on a deeper level in that quiet (almost whispery voice of his).

Plus he is not an auld fella so he can fit in better with the younger demographic.
Crucially, he was a former pro (albeit with a career cut short) so his points can carry a former pros 'gravitas'.
In a way he reminds me of Mark Lawrenson, as he always seems like he is on the edge of despair with the game of football, and maybe life in general?

Dots1982

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

He is the 'thinking man's pundit' - the philosopher always makes of points on a deeper level in that quiet (almost whispery voice of his).

Plus he is not an auld fella so he can fit in better with the younger demographic.
Crucially, he was a former pro (albeit with a career cut short) so his points can carry a former pros 'gravitas'.
In a way he reminds me of Mark Lawrenson, as he always seems like he is on the edge of despair with the game of football, and maybe life in general?

I think ur fairly spot on. I think a factor is also he comes across as affable and a nice fella and that along with his thoughtful tone fools some into thinking he’s actually saying anything other than the completely obvious or providing questions when he’s asked for answers.

Utopia Parkway

yosser hughes wrote: »

Listening to Joe Molloy talking about the boxing tonight perfectly illustrates his relationship with sports. He's smarmy and clueless and eventually resorts to what he thinks are witticisms.
Joe is a media graduate who happened to end up in sport because he wouldn't be able for much else. Golf is his game and god it shows.
His blandness is his asset.
I really wish all of them would stop trying to be funny.

Kinda know what you are saying. I always get the feeling listening to Joe that he is actually not really that into sports (apart from golf which he clearly loves). An odd situation for a sports broadcaster to be in. He's a good bluffer though (probably does his research) and a good interviewer for the most part but I always feel below the exterior when he's doing soccer, GAA, rugby, boxing, etc, that his mind his elsewhere unless he's talking about golf. Then he's really engaged and into it.

Nody

Mod:
No personal sniping at each other, if you have an issue take it to pm or report the post; cards from here on as there has been ample and enough warnings over the last while in this forum. People may be happy with a show; they may be unhappy and both attitudes are ok.