Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

Tell me how

I think people forget just how impactful effort and attitude can be in football, even at the top level. Liverpools success since Klopp arrived has been built on pressing and the best club team of our generation (Barca 2009 - 2012) also ensured their star players were able to shine be retrieving the ball from the opposition as soon as it was lost. Aside from the fitness and speed to do this, the attitude and effort is paramount in players doing it to the optimum level all the time.

I often wonder just how much strategy and coaching play a part in international football given that a coach probably only has 12-20 real coaching sessions with a team a year. Is that enough to mould up to 20 players in different attacking and defending plays or is it likely that they just try to communicate a philosophy of (counter attack/press/long ball/hold possession) etc and hope that their skills will come through within this.

Sometimes pundits talk about football like it is an NFL game where every move, defensive and offensive are micromanaged by the coach. That's where I think it is useful for Giles to refer to core values and qualities and how impactful they are. Even though he refers back to his time, the same factors would have applied in how players made the best of their abilities and were disciplined to do so within a fairly simple structure by the manager. Chelsea players reactions to Conte and Utd players reactions to various managers show that if the attitude and effort isn't there, chances of success are slim.

padd b1975

Feenix wrote: »

A myth that he was ever a good pundit anyway imo. He's been playing the same tune for as long as I remember.

Obviously hes very likeable and managed to keep himself in a job. I think people with a passing interest in football like listening to him.

He was good during a live game when he was on the telly to be fair.

I think a lot of his judgement on today's players comes from newspaper stories.

Feenix

Feenix wrote: »

A myth that he was ever a good pundit anyway imo. He's been playing the same tune for as long as I remember.

Obviously hes very likeable and managed to keep himself in a job. I think people with a passing interest in football like listening to him.

That's harsh. I remember up to about 10 years ago Giles could analyse a game that was in progress better than most other pundits on TV. I'd listen to his take on midfield, in particular, ahead of anyone.

He was never one for research though, as I know a fella who once worked on the Premiership and would supply him with reams of stats and information on competing teams, but Giles would just read the Herald and go for a nap.

BPKS

I expect Sergio Aguero's sick assault on the lineswoman to feature heavily on tomorrow's show.

EmmetSpiceland

BPKS wrote: »

I expect Sergio Aguero's sick assault on the lineswoman to feature heavily on tomorrow's show.

You’ll be listening with “bated” breath, no doubt.

Happy4all

Who is that doing the papers review?

Sounds like a school teacher preaching.

Happy4all

Happy4all wrote: »

Who is that doing the papers review?

Sounds like a school teacher preaching.

Dion Fanning.

Journalists rarely criticise anything a fellow journalist writes but glad he gave short shrift to that absolute hack and spoofer Roy Curtis's claim about writers being fans with typewriters with regard to Stephen Kenny.

Curtis is the ultimate fan with a typewriter when he's spewing out his porter-soaked nostalgia-filled paeans to Dublin GAA.

Happy4all

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dion Fanning.

Journalists rarely criticise anything a fellow journalist writes but glad he gave short shrift to that absolute hack and spoofer Roy Curtis's claim about writers being fans with typewriters with regard to Stephen Kenny.

Curtis is the ultimate fan with a typewriter when he's spewing out his porter-soaked nostalgia-filled paeans to Dublin GAA.

Dion is fine

It was the female journo I didn't recognize

Felexicon

Say what you want about Kenny Cunningham as a pundit but as a co-commentator he is absolutely class!!

Happy4all

Happy4all wrote: »

Dion is fine

It was the female journo I didn't recognize

Dr Kate Liston. Sports Lecturer in the north. Don't recall her being on before.

siblers

Felexicon wrote: »

Say what you want about Kenny Cunningham as a pundit but as a co-commentator he is absolutely class!!

Is he? Spends the whole time moaning and saying 'The Football Club'

RonaVirus

Do OTB think that if they have regular segments with a bunch of women whinging about no one liking women's sports will make more people watch women's sports?

Gives me a headache listening to them.

Wilbury Twist

For me Off The Ball is a bit like a curates egg, good in parts. Joe Molloy in my view is the strongest presenter and interviewer on the team. I also like John Duggan and Will O'Callaghan presenting at the weekend. Nathan Murphy's strength is more in the match day commentary box than in the studio as a topic presenter/interviewer.

Kenny Cunningham and Damien Delaney are excellent soccer analysts, well able to articulate an informed opinion having been there and done it themselves. Too many newspaper hacks are given too much air time on the show with little of substance to contribute in my view, would rather have more ex pro's on the show.

Ger Gilroy seems to have the knack of getting the best from John Giles as an interviewer. Giles is essential listening in my view for post match analysis, less so on the pre match analysis as it's all ''taking each game on it's merits''. Keep Giles for the reviews rather than the previews.

The weekly golf podcast is probably the most consistently good content on OTB.

The quality of OTB AM on social media platforms is mostly padding that doesn't match the quality of the 7pm - 10pm radio show content.

The GAA coverage analysis needs a bit of a shakeup, the people brought on to talk about football in particular don't seem to have a strong opinion on anything or if they do they don't want to rock the GAA boat by articulating it on air. The hurling analysts are a more interesting listen, Daithi O'Regan being particularly good.

Jayesdiem

RonaVirus wrote: »

Do OTB think that if they have regular segments with a bunch of women whinging about no one liking women's sports will make more people watch women's sports?

Gives me a headache listening to them.

So true. It's why Monday Night rugby is now the ONLY OTB show left on my phone from a 2014 high of maybe 20 different podcast shows across all sports. Gradually, one by one, each show has virtue signalled me away and I'm left with nothing. I quite, literally, have no idea what's going on in Irish sport anymore because of this, though Wooly helps me a bit. In fact, I had to quit boards altogether recently for a similar reason as the collective love and passion for Covid lockdown and staying inside all day resulted in the banning of any person who had the audacity to question such logic. I might come back, I might not, maybe I'll dip my toe and see if the temperature is the same.

generalgerry

Jayesdiem wrote: »

In fact, I had to quit boards altogether recently for a similar reason as the collective love and passion for Covid lockdown and staying inside all day resulted in the banning of any person who had the audacity to question such logic. I might come back, I might not, maybe I'll dip my toe and see if the temperature is the same.

I still accept a pm from you Jay

Agree on the cutting down of the shows. I find myself listening less and less to OTB, whereas it used to almost time my leaving work to 7pm so that I would catch it from the start. 7pm now means Richie McCormack's politically correct sports newsround, so I don't even bother. My other favourite Sunday paper review is a dead loss now as well. It used to be interesting people like Kimmage / Gary O'Toole / Gillesse, but now it's a strict gender balanced item, and is more like an awkward blind date than a sports review.

Joe Molloy is still a great broadcaster, but I really wish he would grow a pair of balls. I'd love if he just arrived in studio drunk some day and kicked over some tables, called Gilroy an "overbearing c**t", and p1ssed in Richie McCorkmack's Corn Flakes. It's all far too polite.

Lovely piece with Giles on his brother in law, Nobby Stiles. Giles is so clear and lucid on his memories of the past and the players he played with and against. It's when he's in his element. It's such a shame now that he is on so often talking about players of his era that have passed away, and you get the sense that he is very much aware of that himself. While I'm not a huge fan of his analysis of modern football, we should treasure Giles while we still have him.

Chalk McHugh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lovely piece with Giles on his brother in law, Nobby Stiles. Giles is so clear and lucid on his memories of the past and the players he played with and against. It's when he's in his element. It's such a shame now that he is on so often talking about players of his era that have passed away, and you get the sense that he is very muycujhch aware of that himself. While I'm not a huge fan of his analysis nowadays, we should treasure Giles while we still have him.

The best pundit out there. A gentleman. A legend. He will missed when he's gone.

Ol' Donie

Was thinking this the other day. We're great at giving big tributes to people when they're gone, be nice to acknowledge him while he's still here (which will be for years yet).

Must listen back to that from yesterday.

Did you smash it

Is he not hugely recognized as it is? He’s seen as a national treasure. He’s giving his opinion on football every week. RTE made a tribute programme to him 2 or so years ago. He was grand Marshall to the st Patrick’s parade a few years back. It’s not like he’s some forgotten pro. Alone and forgotten about.

Giles has had a great life, he’s getting old now and of course that’s sad. But that’s just a fact of life. Unfortunately it will happen to us all so I’m unsure what you can really do about it.

Chalk McHugh

Did you smash it wrote: »

Is he not hugely recognized as it is? He’s seen as a national treasure. He’s giving his opinion on football every week. RTE made a tribute programme to him 2 or so years ago. He was grand Marshall to the st Patrick’s parade a few years back. It’s not like he’s some forgotten pro. Alone and forgotten about.

Giles has had a great life, he’s getting old now and of course that’s sad. But that’s just a fact of life. Unfortunately it will happen to us all so I’m unsure what you can really do about it.

Just enjoy him when he's here, that's all really. Is it that big a deal if he forgets the names of current players every now and then? He's an old man and that's what happens, i guess. Some of the moaning about him is a little over the top imo.

RugbyLover123

The problem I have with Giles is they have him on talking about the modern game and players, where he lacks knowledge imo. Forgetting players names is unforgivable for someone getting paid to talk about the game. Constantly referring back to his days is not a good trait to have either as a former pro.

If OTB had a segment for Giles say every 2 weeks where they pick a team from 50s-80s even 90s and analyse them or something like the best XI they did during the first lockdown, I think that would work better as people will know exactly what they are getting.

Did you smash it

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

The problem I have with Giles is they have him on talking about the modern game and players, where he lacks knowledge imo. Forgetting players names is unforgivable for someone getting paid to talk about the game. Constantly referring back to his days is not a good trait to have either as a former pro.

If OTB had a segment for Giles say every 2 weeks where they pick a team from 50s-80s even 90s and analyse them or something like the best XI they did during the first lockdown, I think that would work better as people will know exactly what they are getting.

Look it. He turns 80 next weekend. Unfortunately you just lose the sharpness of your faculties at that age. I think it’s best just to reflect on the great life he led, the good health he has. That’s all you can ask from life in our 80s especially in covid times.

Did you smash it

Did you smash it wrote: »

Is he not hugely recognized as it is? He’s seen as a national treasure. He’s giving his opinion on football every week. RTE made a tribute programme to him 2 or so years ago. He was grand Marshall to the st Patrick’s parade a few years back. It’s not like he’s some forgotten pro. Alone and forgotten about.

Giles has had a great life, he’s getting old now and of course that’s sad. But that’s just a fact of life. Unfortunately it will happen to us all so I’m unsure what you can really do about it.

I'm just saying we should enjoy him while we can. Plenty out there would be happy to see him off the air. I love hearing his nostalgia pieces about his former team-mates and the greats of the game. When he goes, so much of that first hand knowledge and information will go with him.

Did you smash it

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm just saying we should enjoy him while we can. Plenty out there would be happy to see him off the air. I love hearing his nostalgia pieces about his former team-mates and the greats of the game. When he goes, so much of that first hand knowledge and information will go with him.

Was ol donie’s Post I was replying to. Sorry for not quoting.

Ol' Donie

Did you smash it wrote: »

Look it. He turns 80 next weekend. Unfortunately you just lose the sharpness of your faculties at that age. I think it’s best just to reflect on the great life he led, the good health he has. That’s all you can ask from life in our 80s especially in covid times.

Seems there's an OTB special for his birthday! Well done to them, I'm very glad they're doing that.

Look forward to listening to it.

Thelonious Monk

The tribute to John is great this evening, he seems to be held is such esteem by his colleagues. We don't have a player fit to lace his boots at the moment, and haven't in years.

sleepyman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The tribute to John is great this evening, he seems to be held is such esteem by his colleagues. We don't have a player fit to lace his boots at the moment, and haven't in years.

Yeah I thought it was a lovely touch.It's always funny when you see that clip on YouTube of Gilsey punching Keegan.Different Era.He genuinely seemed to be choking up with all the peoples contributions.

Thelonious Monk

sleepyman wrote: »

Yeah I thought it was a lovely touch.It's always funny when you see that clip on YouTube of Gilsey punching Keegan.Different Era.He genuinely seemed to be choking up with all the peoples contributions.

Yeah I saw that punch years ago on Eurosport or something. I think Roy Keane did the same to Alan Shearer. I wish we had a player worthy of punching a top English striker nowadays.

Feenix

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah I saw that punch years ago on Eurosport or something. I think Roy Keane did the same to Alan Shearer. I wish we had a player worthy of punching a top English striker nowadays.

Keane never punched Shearer. The most violent thing he did on the pitch was with Southgate. He would have been banned for months if he did to Shearer what Giles did to Keegan. But don’t let facts get in the way... Ireland players are **** etc etc

RINO87

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Seems there's an OTB special for his birthday! Well done to them, I'm very glad they're doing that.

Look forward to listening to it.

Great show.

Did you smash it

Renegadema wrote: »

I want a sports show where the interviewer just stops these people mid sentence and says “sorry, but that is just wrong, can you try a different opinion”.

Related to this theme Daniel Harris said on OTB AM this morning that Man utd had analyzed 17 million fullbacks before signing AAron Wan Bissaka.


Reminded me of this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eHQG6-DojVw

Morris Moss

The more I listen to Paul McGinley the more I dislike him, he has a serious arrogance about him, Peter Lawrie is much better to listen to.

Morris Moss

Morris Moss wrote: »

The more I listen to Paul McGinley the more I dislike him, he has a serious arrogance about him, Peter Lawrie is much better to listen to.

Funny, that's how I feel about Richie McCormack!

Not hugely into golf, but enjoyed Pádraig Harrington on tonight about the Masters.

RonaVirus

Richie McCormack has to be up there for the worlds worst person.

Literally worse than Hitler and Stalin combined.

Piehead

RonaVirus wrote: »

Richie McCormack has to be up there for the worlds worst person.

Literally worse than Hitler and Stalin combined.

What’s he doing now ? He’s been extra bitter since his pay cut.

Did you smash it

God, Dion Fanning is hard to listen to, a slow speaking waffler

generalgerry

So THAT'S what inconsistency is! Thanks John.

Higgins5473

Quite surprised at Gilroy cutting into Stephen Kenny tonight, it's usually toeing the party line with these guys and the common consensus is that Kenny is building something and is in a transitional phase, which is of course a load of bollocks but he's usually with whatever he thinks will make him seem popular, why is Gilroy slating him?

Piehead

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Quite surprised at Gilroy cutting into Stephen Kenny tonight, it's usually toeing the party line with these guys and the common consensus is that Kenny is building something and is in a transitional phase, which is of course a load of bollocks but he's usually with whatever he thinks will make him seem popular, why is Gilroy slating him?

Just being cranky I’d say

Thelonious Monk

I'm trying to hear updates on the Ireland game and team selection etc but I have to keep turning off the radio because I just can't listen to that Tommy Welsh bloke or whatever his name is who does the udpates for GAA matches.
Up there with Ciara Kelly in having the most annoying voice/personality on radio.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm trying to hear updates on the Ireland game and team selection etc but I have to keep turning off the radio because I just can't listen to that Tommy Welsh bloke or whatever his name is who does the udpates for GAA matches.
Up there with Ciara Kelly in having the most annoying voice/personality on radio.

The Tommy Walsh bloke with nine Celtic Crosses and nine successive All Stars? I think some people struggle with an accent that's not Mid Atlantic and clipped on the radio or TV. He's just rural and raw. I love hearing his contributions as he talks more common sense than most of the other clipped voices on OTB put together.

Also, he was reporting on a Munster final, while the Ireland-Wales games is about as meaningless a game as you could imagine, despite the talking up of the possibility that we'll drop into pot 3 if we lose, which doesn't actually mean a whole pile. And that's from an avid Irish football supporter.

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

The Tommy Walsh bloke with nine Celtic Crosses and nine successive All Stars?

No idea what that means. But whatever he is, I'm allergic to him.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

No idea what that means. But whatever he is, I'm allergic to him.

Fair play to you.

He's a hugely popular pundit.

gormdubhgorm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm trying to hear updates on the Ireland game and team selection etc but I have to keep turning off the radio because I just can't listen to that Tommy Welsh bloke or whatever his name is who does the udpates for GAA matches.
Up there with Ciara Kelly in having the most annoying voice/personality on radio.

Deleted User wrote: »

The Tommy Walsh bloke with nine Celtic Crosses and nine successive All Stars? I think some people struggle with an accent that's not Mid Atlantic and clipped on the radio or TV. He's just rural and raw. I love hearing his contributions as he talks more common sense than most of the other clipped voices on OTB put together.

Also, he was reporting on a Munster final, while the Ireland-Wales games is about as meaningless a game as you could imagine, despite the talking up of the possibility that we'll drop into pot 3 if we lose, which doesn't actually mean a whole pile. And that's from an avid Irish football supporter.

Obviously not a hurling/GAA fan Thelonious Monk and a Dub I assume?
Tommy Walsh is a breathe of fresh air as pundit - loads of energy and exuberance.
If people were able to step away from thier biases against a sport/accent they would simply hear an enthusiastic individual full of life who loves his sport of hurling.

Ireland game was live on BBC Wales by the way. Nathan Blake pulled no punches about Ireland. Nor did the other pundits on. Would never have heard the like on Irish radio.

Thelonious Monk

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Obviously not a hurling/GAA fan Thelonious Monk and a Dub I assume?

A Dub yes although I don't know why that matters, no I don't really like GAA, I can usually put up with match reports but that guy just does my head in.

Ol' Donie

Tommy Walsh is brilliant as a pundit.

Chalk McHugh

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Obviously not a hurling/GAA fan Thelonious Monk and a Dub I assume?
Tommy Walsh is a breathe of fresh air as pundit - loads of energy and exuberance.
If people were able to step away from thier biases against a sport/accent they would simply hear an enthusiastic individual full of life who loves his sport of hurling.

Ireland game was live on BBC Wales by the way. Nathan Blake pulled no punches about Ireland. Nor did the other pundits on. Would never have heard the like on Irish radio.

Tommy Walsh is a fantastic man to listen to. One of the best hurling pundits on tv or radio. He calls it straight with no frills and no nonsense. Top notch.

gormdubhgorm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

A Dub yes although I don't know why that matters, no I don't really like GAA, I can usually put up with match reports but that guy just does my head in.

Because you wouldn't be used to listening to Culchies.
Have to tune into the lingo. Once you hear the accent being an out and out soccer man would hard for you to tune in.
Different worlds.
Soccer is very Dublin Centric barring the odd intruder from Cork/Dundalk etc.

Thelonious Monk

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Because you wouldn't be used to listening to Culchies.
Have to tune into the lingo. Once you hear the accent being an out and out soccer man would hard for you to tune in.
Different worlds.
Soccer is very Dublin Centric barring the odd intruder from Cork/Dundalk etc.

But I like loads of "culchie" broadcasters, just your man does my head in.
Isn't Dublin the GAA cup champions now or something anyway? Surely it's big here too.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But I like loads of "culchie" broadcasters, just your man does my head in.
Isn't Dublin the GAA cup champions now or something anyway? Surely it's big here too.

Thelonious is too clever for the savage games. Cultural self loathing. As my father used to say of the barflies in my local town, there's nothing as depressing as those who advertise their own ignorance. Personally, I think the only thing I find as depressing as gormless old GAA men who hate 'soccer' with a passion is the devout football men who look down their noses at GAA.