Róisín Shortall Resigns As Junior Health Minister

Dyr

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Thank you for your contribution to the debate and introduction of the term wafflepops. I shall look forward to you continuing well reasoned and incisive commentary on my life experience.

Your life experience? I don't have any interest in that.

Just your opinions about stuff. When those opinions are wrong

Bannasidhe

Cory Short Shrapnel wrote: »

Id like to see a net figure offset against the amount of money the government take on excise duty and vat on alcohol sales. That figure would be drastically reduced.

I think the costs to our society are too high regardless of how much income is generated.

How do we 'cost' in the damage done to children by adults who abuse alcohol but not to the extent that it requires the intervention of the State via social services?

How do we 'cost' the number of relationships that end or are abusive due to alcohol abuse?

How do we 'cost' the amount wasted on paying fees and grants to students who fail their course or under perform due to 'partying' too much when they should have been studying?

A simple expenditure Vs income comparison is not possible as many of the effects of alcohol abuse on our society do not appear on any balance sheet.

Bannasidhe

Bambi wrote: »

Your life experience? I don't have any interest in that.

Just your opinions about stuff. When those opinions are wrong

You mean when you disagree with my opinion?
Your disagreement does not make me wrong.

Dyr

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You mean when you disagree with my opinion?
Your disagreement does not make me wrong.

Y'see there's plenty of european cities out there that have big party cultures. You might not have seen them but they are out there and many of them are a hell of a lot less safe than Dublin is. You probably won't believe that but there's plenty of folk on here who've been out an about on this continent and we've seen things quite differently to you. Oh yes indeed we have.

I'm sure some clever person could point you to the statistics for alcohol consumption, violent crime and antisocial behaviour in european countries which will show that really we aren't in any way markedly different from many of our European neighbours. Root around on that eurostat site and see what you can find.


And yeah, Geneva is a boring oul place, unless your idea of fun is sitting around watching stuff not happen. That said, I saw a solider complete with assault rifle hanging around with his mates drinking cans on the street. I'm sure that would outrage you utterly if it happened here.

starbelgrade

yoyo wrote: »

How is "below cost" selling actually calculated?

If a supermarket or pub sells you drink at a price that is below the unit cost of what they need to sell it for to make a profit, that's below cost selling.

The unit cost will include the cost they paid for it plus other costs such as transport, storage, wages, insurance, overheads etc. All these expenses are factored into the unit price at which goods need to be sold in order to break even or make a profit.

_feedback_

I heard on the news earlier that Reilly would be answering questions in the Dáil tonight, so tuned in.

What a load of bollocks. People ask him questions and he READS the answer, sounding completely uninterested and in one tone using usual politics language.

What a joke. Imagine the frustration of meeting the man in private and being met with that big thick head. What a knob.

abff

Millicent wrote: »

James Reilly is a disgrace and Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore should be ashamed for accepting her resignation and not, instead, insisting James Reilly stepped down.

Sickening.

Well said.

Smidge

I thought I would have a quick look around and see if I could find anything about booze across Europe.
The WHO one is only 2004 but still relevant, I feel.

I found it interesting in relation to cost of alcohol here and across Europe and also the consumption and death rate stats.


http://gamapserver.who.int/gho/interactive_charts/gisah/death_rates_alcohol/atlas.html

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_alc_con-food-alcohol-consumption-current

http://www.pricewiki.com/blog/2010/04/05/price-of-alcohol-in-europe/

The King of Moo

Cory Short Shrapnel wrote: »

I've lived on London for a short time and regularly felt much more uneasy around at night than in Ireland and there is just as much p*ssing (a hanging offence :pac:) and drunkenness around.

Been to Geneva, its quiet and safe, but its dead around at night no atmosphere or craic at all.

Been to Barcelona but wasnt around much at night so cant comment, bar being told that pick pockets are rife.

Paris is a dangerous city, this is coming from a French friend of mine from Paris who told me its a sh*t hole of a place (at night). Turn the wrong corner and you will be lucky to get out with your life.

I work with a number of Italians and I am good friends with them, they would not walk around Milan at night said its dangerous. They laugh when they hear someone calling Irish cities dangerous.



Again I'm glad you picked Italy as I can give a proper response. Italy has a massive problem with underage drinking, when the lads I know hear talk of underage drinking here they say its nothing compared to Italy, its absolutely rife there. I doubt any Italian was horrified about anything to do with drink, they love the stuff.

Oddio!!

This is not the case at all. I work with Italian teenagers, I know lots of Italians outside work, and I've spent a lot of time in various parts of Italy. I've never seen a drunk person in Italy, even in private. Of course some people, usually in their twenties, go to nightclubs and have a few Nastro Azzuri or Manabree (and I mean a few), but there's no drinking culture in Italy to speak of.
Italy simply does not have a drinking problem of any colour, let alone an underage drinking problem, especially considering that the age limit there is 16, and most Italian 15 year-olds are more interested in ice cream and Dragonball than beer.

Professey Chin

Watching Prime Time right now.
Gilmore hasnt actually given an answer.
Usual politicians

Bannasidhe

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Watching Prime Time right now.
Gilmore hasnt actually given an answer.
Usual politicians

He is blustering and flustering.

starbelgrade

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Watching Prime Time right now.
Gilmore hasnt actually given an answer.
Usual politicians

Eamon Gilmore is in denial. He's obviously gotten fatter over the last few years, but seems to think that he's the same size as before & buys shirts with the same collar size that he's always bought.

The result is that his head resembles a hot air balloon as he is being slowly choked to death by his own shirt.

humbert

The King of Moo wrote: »

Oddio!!

This is not the case at all. I work with Italian teenagers, I know lots of Italians outside work, and I've spent a lot of time in various parts of Italy. I've never seen a drunk person in Italy, even in private. Of course some people, usually in their twenties, go to nightclubs and have a few Nastro Azzuri or Manabree (and I mean a few), but there's no drinking culture in Italy to speak of.
Italy simply does not have a drinking problem of any colour, let alone an underage drinking problem, especially considering that the age limit there is 16, and most Italian 15 year-olds are more interested in ice cream and Dragonball than beer.

Not that it really matters but this would suggest that while traditionally that was true, alcoholism is on the rise and among the young.

I have never been to Italy or know any Italians so I cant give anecdotal proof.

rowz

Over paid ,the worst in Europe?

AudreyHepburn

I'm not really understanding what the fuss is about tbh.

Ok yes 2 of the primary health care centres are in Minister Reilly's constituancy, but there are 33 others that aren't. We can hardly accuse him of favouratism can we?

Or should he have simply ignored his own constituants needs?

Professey Chin

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'm not really understanding what the fuss is about tbh.

Ok yes 2 of the primary health care centres are in Minister Reilly's constituancy, but there are 33 others that aren't. We can hardly accuse him of favouratism can we?

Or should he have simply ignored his own constituants needs?

Huge reports were put into deciding what areas deserved the PC centers the most. He moved the goalposts to suit his own wants for re-election and in the process 2 areas will miss out on theirs. He wasnt even in charge of the selections.

Bannasidhe

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'm not really understanding what the fuss is about tbh.

Ok yes 2 of the primary health care centres are in Minister Reilly's constituancy, but there are 33 others that aren't. We can hardly accuse him of favouratism can we?

Or should he have simply ignored his own constituants needs?

He is minister for health for the whole country - not just his constituents.

Bannasidhe

humbert wrote: »

Not that it really matters but this would suggest that while traditionally that was true, alcoholism is on the rise and among the young.

I have never been to Italy or know any Italians so I cant give anecdotal proof.

My brother works in Milan (and has done for 20 years) and has an apartment there so I spend a lot of time in the city and have traveled widely across the country. I certainly have never seen any alcohol related public order issues there nor any alleged increase in under-age drinking.

AudreyHepburn

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Huge reports were put into deciding what areas deserved the PC centers the most. He moved the goalposts to suit his own wants for re-election and in the process 2 areas will miss out on theirs. He wasnt even in charge of the selections.

So again....should each TD just ignore his/her own constituants needs?

Bannasidhe wrote: »

He is minister for health for the whole country - not just his constituents.

Indeed....and again only 2 out of 33 centres were in his area....hardly favouratism imo.

I wrote to James Reilly about a year and a half ago, regarding a death in a hospital. I am still waiting on his response. He is a total disgrace of a human being.
I couldnt despise the man more if I was paid to do so.
:mad:

The King of Moo

humbert wrote: »

Not that it really matters but this would suggest that while traditionally that was true, alcoholism is on the rise and among the young.

I have never been to Italy or know any Italians so I cant give anecdotal proof.

It has increased, definitely, there's more people doing the pub and club night out, but it still doesn't compare to here. It would seem shocking to Italians to see any level of public drunkenness though, so even a small increase would be seen (rightly) as a shocking and serious problem), but I'd be very surprised to see the level socially-accepted public drunkenness you see here.

Professey Chin

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

So again....should each TD just ignore his/her own constituants needs?

As a minister ideally yes. Ministers are there to make the decisions best for the country. Not their own careers

Indeed....and again only 2 out of 33 centres were in his area....hardly favouratism imo.

How many do you think he could fit in his area? 2 out of 35 (when they were ranked at 46 and about 144 of priority originally) is a pretty big ratio

strobe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My brother works in Milan (and has done for 20 years) and has an apartment there so I spend a lot of time in the city and have traveled widely across the country. I certainly have never seen any alcohol related public order issues there nor any alleged increase in under-age drinking.

And yet alcohol is cheaper in Italy than in Ireland and the advertising is less restricted than here.

Bannasidhe

strobe wrote: »

And yet alcohol is cheaper in Italy than in Ireland and the advertising is less restricted than here.

Indeed. They do not have a culture that praises and admires the regular abuse of alcohol. We do.

The attacks on Shorthall based only on her proposal to introduce a minimum price on alcohol demonstrates how pervasive this culture is. The level of hyperbole is mindboggling.

_feedback_

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Huge reports were put into deciding what areas deserved the PC centers the most. He moved the goalposts to suit his own wants for re-election and in the process 2 areas will miss out on theirs. He wasnt even in charge of the selections.

So again....should each TD just ignore his/her own constituants needs?

Bannasidhe wrote: »

He is minister for health for the whole country - not just his constituents.

Indeed....and again only 2 out of 33 centres were in his area....hardly favouratism imo.

Audrey there was a list of 20 compiled under a strict list of conditions, he added in 15 extra including two from his constituency which were nowhere near the top 35..

humbert

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The attacks on Shorthall based only on her proposal to introduce a minimum price on alcohol demonstrates how pervasive this culture is.

No, it doesn't.

Bannasidhe

humbert wrote: »

No, it doesn't.

We can agree to disagree.

RDM_83 again

The King of Moo wrote: »

Oddio!!

This is not the case at all. I work with Italian teenagers, I know lots of Italians outside work, and I've spent a lot of time in various parts of Italy. I've never seen a drunk person in Italy, even in private. Of course some people, usually in their twenties, go to nightclubs and have a few Nastro Azzuri or Manabree (and I mean a few), but there's no drinking culture in Italy to speak of.
Italy simply does not have a drinking problem of any colour, let alone an underage drinking problem, especially considering that the age limit there is 16, and most Italian 15 year-olds are more interested in ice cream and Dragonball than beer.

Ok in relation to this I hung around on holidays with the same group of italian teenagers in my early to mid teens and I have to say they did drink way less however they smoked a lot more hash and fags. (I was fairly innocent and responsible with alcohol at that age and even I drank more than them)

Public disorder relating to alcohol and public health are two very different things, yes Ireland may be bad in relation to drunken idiots but in terms with the health damage. Look at the data for cirrhosis, peaceful Geneva actually has worse rates for cirrhosis than ireland and Italy is considerably worse. I mean its less acceptable to be drunk there but you can get a shot in your coffee without anybody blinking an eye.

http://apps.who.int/ghodata/?theme=GISAH

As an aside Bannasidhe I'm sure it must be frustrating having poor attendance and distracted pupils for your lectures but personally having done both a science course and a course thats probably quite close to your area AFAIK but in the Science course the attendance at lectures made a big difference (as I found out to my cost one year) but even though the latter courses lectures were much more interesting the subject type meant that the lectures just weren;t as important

Millicent

humbert wrote: »

No, it doesn't.

It kind of does. This thread was about ministerial corruption and a subsequent resignation but instead it has focused on an alcohol issue that has nothing to do with either. Pretty clear indication, IMO.

RDM_83 again

Millicent wrote: »

It kind of does. This thread was about ministerial corruption and a subsequent resignation but instead it has focused on an alcohol issue that has nothing to do with either. Pretty clear indication, IMO.

Its boards at least it didn;t morph into something on abortion, the IRA or Foreign Woman vs Irish woman

And though it isn;t in my previous post which is critical of her alcohol ideas, I do believe she showed some integrity in what she did, I say some because if she is the idealist some people think she would have voted no confidence in O'Reilly!

humbert

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We can agree to disagree.

Millicent wrote: »

It kind of does. This thread was about ministerial corruption and a subsequent resignation but instead it has focused on an alcohol issue that has nothing to do with either. Pretty clear indication, IMO.

It's a very public policy which many users, including myself, see as an indication of poor judgement. Another politician looking to be seen to do something but lacking the conviction to make any big changes.

I'd be the first person to acknowledge that Ireland has a drinking problem but I don't think it will be politicians like Ms. Shortall that bring about meaningful change.

I also resent the suggestion that my disagreeing with her policy and the consequential impact it has on my opinion of her is an indication that Ireland has a drinking problem.

yoyo

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The attacks on Shorthall based only on her proposal to introduce a minimum price on alcohol demonstrates how pervasive this culture is. The level of hyperbole is mindboggling.

I attacked Shorthall firstly because of her stupid proposals but tbh the main reason I was so p!ssed off with her was the fact I had contacted her/or her spoksperson about the alcohol licensing change outlining how I was sure it would solve nothing except being a benefit to the publicans and received no response.
Funnily enough I received a "important" email from her mailing list to suggest voting yes to the lisbon treaty or whatever the recent thing was called a while back. Not only do I think her propsals were stupid but not to reply to people except to promote what they want is a bit much. So no, have no sympathy :P

Nick

squod

They should all resign. Gimps

strobe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

strobe wrote: »

And yet alcohol is cheaper in Italy than in Ireland and the advertising is less restricted than here.

Indeed. They do not have a culture that praises and admires the regular abuse of alcohol. We do.

The attacks on Shorthall based only on her proposal to introduce a minimum price on alcohol demonstrates how pervasive this culture is. The level of hyperbole is mindboggling.

Ah but I 'attacked her' previously based on that proposal because it was completely stupid, had very little to do with how pervasive an attitude to alcohol is here. I dislike completely stupid policies being pushed by politicians cause they want to pad out their political CV or for any other reason really.

Carlow2011

Isn't it great to be able to resign and drop to a salary of €96.5k + over €35k for expenses with guarantee of ministers pension after 18 months, the one oppourtunity to actually make a difference left behind cos of a little heat, the Country's fcuked stand up and be counted, or if you want to resign, actualy resign rather than serve a useless existence on the non opposition back benches and maybe it would be better to donate the large income to some parents who don't know how their kids are going to be fed tomorrow

suicide_circus

Carlow2011 wrote: »

Isn't it great to be able to resign and drop to a salary of €96.5k + over €35k for expenses with guarantee of ministers pension after o18 months, the one oppourtunity to actually make a difference left behind cos of a little heat, the Country's fcuked stand up and be counted, or if you want to resign, actualy resign rather than serve a useless existence on the non opposition back benches and maybe it would be better to donate the large income to some parents who don't know how their kids are going to be fed tomorrow

+100000

Ultimately, she's a quitter. Things got tough so she fooked off into obscurity on her massive salary with an obscene ministerial pension to come. A true patriot.

Le_Dieux

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Watching Prime Time right now.
Gilmore hasnt actually given an answer.
Usual politicians

I reckon he's history soon. Man, I sure wouldn't like having him as my boss. He stood behind JR and put him over his own. RS did the right thing for me, and only blot on Her book is why She gave JR a vote of confidence last week.

Gilmore? What a scumbag!

Le_Dieux

Carlow2011 wrote: »

Isn't it great to be able to resign and drop to a salary of €96.5k + over €35k for expenses with guarantee of ministers pension after 18 months, the one oppourtunity to actually make a difference left behind cos of a little heat, the Country's fcuked stand up and be counted, or if you want to resign, actualy resign rather than serve a useless existence on the non opposition back benches and maybe it would be better to donate the large income to some parents who don't know how their kids are going to be fed tomorrow

While in general agreeing with You Carlow, is it Her fault that She can get that pension? The fact She can fall back on that is ( for me ) what's wrong with this country.

Those cnuts in DE will bleed the last drop of blood out of the stone before even thinking of themselves.

Self centred gobsh1tes the fcuking lot of them!

The King of Moo

The King of Moo wrote: »

Oddio!!

This is not the case at all. I work with Italian teenagers, I know lots of Italians outside work, and I've spent a lot of time in various parts of Italy. I've never seen a drunk person in Italy, even in private. Of course some people, usually in their twenties, go to nightclubs and have a few Nastro Azzuri or Manabree (and I mean a few), but there's no drinking culture in Italy to speak of.
Italy simply does not have a drinking problem of any colour, let alone an underage drinking problem, especially considering that the age limit there is 16, and most Italian 15 year-olds are more interested in ice cream and Dragonball than beer.

Yeah whatever, but I will be sticking with what I'm told by my good friends from Italy as opposed to some one who "claims" to be in the know.

They also tell me lots of stories of their drunken escapades, drink driving being common place etc etc which throws basically everything in your post out the window.

The King of Moo

Cory Short Shrapnel wrote: »

Yeah whatever, but I will be sticking with what I'm told by my good friends from Italy as opposed to some one who "claims" to be in the know.

They also tell me lots of stories of their drunken escapades, drink driving being common place etc etc which throws basically everything in your post out the window.

By putting "claims" in quotation marks, I assume you mean that I'm not claiming and I am in the know. Thanks.

Like I said earlier, an Italian's idea of a serious national drinking problem would be different from an Irish person's. Even if an Italian person told you they have a huge drinking problem (and I have my doubts this actually happened), that doesn't mean it's in any way comparable to our own massive problem.

I also note in this post you speak of their drunken escapades. Perhaps these people were simply recounting their own and their friends' experiences, and assuming they were typically Italian.

But I should just shut up. What do I know, with my numerous visits to Italy, Italian friends, colleagues and students, and Italian ex of three and a half years?

I defer to what you claim some Italian people told you instead.

palmcut

The other 13 sites.

How were they picked?

Were they picked by political colleagues?

Are party colleagues who are supporters of the Minister being favoured?

I wonder who are the the TDs who support the Minister?

eg. Who shared an office with the Minister whilst he was in opposition?
eg. Who was "mates" with the Minister whilst he was in opposition?