Clonakilty Marathon December 8th

cbig

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Can you elaberate on this. Was it a fact of them slowing on the uphills and speeding up on the downhills, if so thats a perfectly acceptable tactic on a course like that. Im not linked with this marathon in any way but am interested.

Sure, we ran a 1.51 first half with the intention of coming in around 3.45 -3.50 at no time were we able to catch the 3.45 balloons as they completed the first few k in well under 3.45 pace. They must have been doing 5.10k pace by my guess. If this was a tactic so they could slow on the hills I think that's flawed as its rule number one not to go off harder then your goal pace, is it not? A pacer should go at an even pace.

Not really having a go at the pacers just pointng out that the pace they chose was not even.(deliberate or not) It's so people can decide if this race is for them.

CorkRunning

cbig wrote: »

I think that's flawed as its rule number one not to go off harder then your goal pace, is it not? A pacer should go at an even pace.

The pacer should run at an even effort, not at an even pace. Dead even pace only works where the course is reasonably flat.

If a pacer was to run at an even pace where there are hills then they would just drop most of the group on the uphill section. That's why they build up a cushion on the flat and downhill sections and go easy going uphill as this allows people to hang on.

The 3:45 pacers went through the 13 mile mark just under 1:50 which was a cushion of about 1m 45s for the two miles of uphill that lay ahead.

ChampionChip

Puck wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what time did he leave? I arrived around 7 and the roads were still pretty quiet at that stage.

I went to half way of the marathon to put down mats and was back at the finish shortly after 7 and no problem getting in and out.

cbig

CorkRunning wrote: »

The pacer should run at an even effort, not at an even pace. Dead even pace only works where the course is reasonably flat.

If a pacer was to run at an even pace where there are hills then they would just drop most of the group on the uphill section. That's why they build up a cushion on the flat and downhill sections and go easy going uphill as this allows people to hang on.

The 3:45 pacers went through the 13 mile mark just under 1:50 which was a cushion of about 1m 45s for the two miles of uphill that lay ahead.

In my opinion that is not good pace keeping. There were loads of hills in the first half but you didn't slow up for them.

belcarra

cbig wrote: »

In my opinion that is not good pace keeping. There were loads of hills in the first half but you didn't slow up for them.

I think the reasons for pacing as such have already been outlined.
If you don't agree with the rationale then fair enough, that's your opinion - we are there as a guide and an aid but you are free to run the course whatever way you like.
Out of interest how did your race go and did you hit the sub 3:45? Did you do even pace the whole way around?

Belcarra, 4:15 pacer.

cbig

belcarra wrote: »

I think the reasons for pacing as such have already been outlined.
If you don't agree with the rationale then fair enough, that's your opinion - we are there as a guide and an aid but you are free to run the course whatever way you like.
Out of interest how did your race go and did you hit the sub 3:45? Did you do even pace the whole way around?

Belcarra, 4:15 pacer.

I floated between 5.10 and 5.20 pace for most of it. Slowed at bit at the end and finished 3.52
Tough course to pace on I imagine.

CorkRunning

cbig wrote: »

In my opinion that is not good pace keeping. There were loads of hills in the first half but you didn't slow up for them.

Correction...We did actually slow down on the uphill sections on the first half. We built up the cushion on the flat and downhill sections.

belcarra

cbig wrote: »

I floated between 5.10 and 5.20 pace for most of it. Slowed at bit at the end and finished 3.52
Tough course to pace on I imagine.

Fair play - that's still a good time on a tough course. I'd be pretty confident that you would break the 3:45 on a flat course without too much difficulty.
But that really is the issue...to get 3:45 on that course you would need to be going at almost 5:00/km pace in order to bank for the tougher sections.
As CorkRunning has already stated: The pacer should run at an even effort, not at an even pace.

RacoonQueen

[QUOTE=cbig;82162809]In my opinion that is not good pace keeping. There were loads of hills in the first half but you didn't slow up for them.[/QUOTE]

How many marathons have you been a pacer for?

d7h

hi
new here obviously and my comments are for the organisers really
i ran cork marathon last year and dublin the year before so this was quite different
but my experience was that i really enjoyed it and thought organisation was very good.
starting at inchydoney hotel i thought was bad idea...and it obviously didn't work too well
for various reasons - but maybe they had no choice in the matter and in fairness i got
a shower after which was crowded but welcome - main problem i would say is there's
just not enough room there for a proper start for 2000 odd people.
i got bus from town at 7.30 and it was half full so have sympathy for organisers when
people still arriving after 9...get up earlier please i think and anyone expecting to drive that road
out on the morning - even if organisers said it would be ok - needs head examined i'm afraid.
i didn't mind half hour wait myself but understand frustration of others with this.
thought course was super..and tough...4 hour pacers were close to me and seemed to do a good job i thought.
the marshalling and signs were great...water stations and helpers were super.
and near the end i was so happy to see the sports drinks when i needed them plus got a bar chocolate, jellies and offered a banana too....thanks so much for the timing of these.
crossed line and wrapped in blanket which was welcome as all i could do was sit down...where people came up to me with water, nougat bar, energy bar and more sports drink.
i've been really surprised reading this thread at all the negative comments.
my experince was great....ok tent bag collection bit of a mess when i got there and cars on roads in last few miles were annoying...but hats off to clonakilty...really enjoyed the day - weather helped - and seemed to me the whole town was supporting the event

breffni blue

I was pacing for 4hrs and did the 1st half in 1.57.47 (2 mins banked as was the plan) and finished in 3.59.53, when pacing a course like Clonakilty or Dingle you have to bank time, a course like Dublin, Waterford or Cork can be paced without banking time as they are fairly flat courses, I told every runner I talked to before the race started and during the race that we would be banking this time as we would be losing time on the hills......till next time..

monthehoops

d7h wrote: »

hi
new here obviously and my comments are for the organisers really
i ran cork marathon last year and dublin the year before so this was quite different
but my experience was that i really enjoyed it and thought organisation was very good.
starting at inchydoney hotel i thought was bad idea...and it obviously didn't work too well
for various reasons - but maybe they had no choice in the matter and in fairness i got
a shower after which was crowded but welcome - main problem i would say is there's
just not enough room there for a proper start for 2000 odd people.
i got bus from town at 7.30 and it was half full so have sympathy for organisers when
people still arriving after 9...get up earlier please i think and anyone expecting to drive that road
out on the morning - even if organisers said it would be ok - needs head examined i'm afraid.
i didn't mind half hour wait myself but understand frustration of others with this.
thought course was super..and tough...4 hour pacers were close to me and seemed to do a good job i thought.
the marshalling and signs were great...water stations and helpers were super.
and near the end i was so happy to see the sports drinks when i needed them plus got a bar chocolate, jellies and offered a banana too....thanks so much for the timing of these.
crossed line and wrapped in blanket which was welcome as all i could do was sit down...where people came up to me with water, nougat bar, energy bar and more sports drink.
i've been really surprised reading this thread at all the negative comments.
my experince was great....ok tent bag collection bit of a mess when i got there and cars on roads in last few miles were annoying...but hats off to clonakilty...really enjoyed the day - weather helped - and seemed to me the whole town was supporting the event

In that case the organisers must be off their heads, no?

I think people need to take a look at their own preparation for this also, but I was in Inchydoney to take part in my first half marathon and got out there for 8:15. It was chaos from then on. I got up early to have a proper breakfast, I got out there early to warm up properly and drop my bag and I was standing about until after 9:30 waiting to get going.

The run itself was enjoyable; plenty water along the route and the organisers can't do much about ignoramuses who decide they have to go out to get milk in the middle of the marathon. Once I crossed the finish line and got some food into me I went to collect my bag. At this point I was frozen and a volunteer got snotty with me when I asked her where I could pick up one of the foil blankets but I was so tired I just moved on to the bag collection where the queue was way out the door. One entrance and exit on that tent was ridiculous and the "system" was a joke once you managed to get into the tent. It boiled down to "Can you see your bag? If so we'll get it"

Good points: Water stops, Berocca, Plenty bars, nice route etc
Bad points: I won't list them all, they've been gone over numerous times but I'd include race-goers own preparation for it. That being said, even if everyone had shown up early then the only issue that would have solved is the delayed start time.

d7h

hi breffni
you passed me after 4 miles so i went a little faster to stay with ye and couple miles later went past ye
and decided to try bank time on ye!! it worked till ye came past again with 2 1/2 miles to go but i was just struggling too much on final 3 miles...so i thought ye did a good job and got it just right...and as one post says its about even effort and not even pace. i was happy anyway...getting closer to the 4 hour mark...more training required is all

cbig

RacoonQueen wrote: »

How many marathons have you been a pacer for?

What's your point?

EauRouge79

My tupence worth.
Marathon Route was very nice, v.tough but enjoyable.

1)Traffic situation obviously needs to be managed better. As idyllic a location as the hotel is, its just not practicle. Races need to start on time.
Back to the town is best option and keep the hotel area as part of the route we run if its scenery they are after.
2) The 3 Events should have seperate starts to avoid crowding. At least 5/7mins apart.
3) There needs to be a goody bag at the end, not good enough just you a bottle of water. Foil blankets were good but I needed a banana a something sugary!

Overall the race crew and marshalls were very pleasant and helpfull.
Atmosphere with the DJ was good to at the start line.

Organisational improvement are required, they cannot afford another mess next year.

belcarra

EauRouge - Did you call into De Barra's in the end?
I was there from around 5 'til late but failed to spot a group of 24 anywhere...

groovyg

Despite the few negatives about the event, everyone seems to have got a medal and t-shirt which is the most important thing at the end of the day.
Well done to all

village runner

groovyg wrote: »

Despite the few negatives about the event, everyone seems to have got a medal and t-shirt which is the most important thing at the end of the day.
Well done to all

What planet do you live on ? Medal and tshirt puts u in for quote of The yr.

121212

very disappointed with the results and timing for the half. Was happy with my times and the provisional results but the latest results with the chips times doesn't list me at all. For 50 odd euro thats fairly poor and i wont be doing it again

ChampionChip

If anyone else is now absent its because we had to revise the results when it appeared some runners started in the wrong place and the wrong time. In a couple of cases the chip was not on the shoe so it was missed. Email me if you want me to investigate but I have only had to look into about 6 or 7 so far and all have been sorted to date.

eoinín

I've uploaded some photos of the start of the marathon / half / 10km, as well as the closing stages of the 10km. I'll put up some of the end of the half in the next day or so.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86489211@N00/sets/72157632212266558/

RacoonQueen

cbig wrote: »

What's your point?

You are attacking very experienced pacers on the pacing strategy they used, which was successful, if you haven't paced a marathon in this way before you're not really in a position to tell them they did it wrong when they clearly did a good job.

ChampionChip

Uploaded Half and Mini results again with some adjustments. Main issues coming up are caused by half marathon runners going off with the marathoners. Since the race had a permit from AAI then rule IAAF 165 applies where the race starts when the start signal sounds and not when the runner crosses the start line so if they went off at the first start then they effectively false started and are not counted.

In a few cases the half marathoner went off early and then came back and thus has two start times which we have been sifting through also. Plus we have had a few issues where the chip was just not worn or was in a pocket of the athlete.

Have managed to sort out all the issues from the emails we have got so far.

cbig

RacoonQueen wrote: »

You are attacking very experienced pacers on the pacing strategy they used, which was successful, if you haven't paced a marathon in this way before you're not really in a position to tell them they did it wrong when they clearly did a good job.

I haven't attacked anyone. I saw uneven pace, pacers have explained their take on this. So I am happy that they paced unevenly on purpose and what I saw was correct but deliberate. I have no problem with that, as I wasn't following them myself my view on it was from a distance.
Please don't try to make this something it isn't.

RacoonQueen

Ha they'd already explained it a couple of times before you proclaimed they had done it wrong, but OK.

village runner

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Ha they'd already explained it a couple of times before you proclaimed they had done it wrong, but OK.

Its Xmas lads. Lol.

grasscutter

ChampionChip wrote: »

If anyone else is now absent its because we had to revise the results when it appeared some runners started in the wrong place and the wrong time. In a couple of cases the chip was not on the shoe so it was missed. Email me if you want me to investigate but I have only had to look into about 6 or 7 so far and all have been sorted to date.

Reading your posts over the last couple of days its interesting to see the work that has to be done to pulll all the correct data together and to account for all the discrepancies that can arise especially in a multi-race format.

Oisin11178

CorkRunning wrote: »

The pacer should run at an even effort, not at an even pace. Dead even pace only works where the course is reasonably flat.

If a pacer was to run at an even pace where there are hills then they would just drop most of the group on the uphill section. That's why they build up a cushion on the flat and downhill sections and go easy going uphill as this allows people to hang on.

The 3:45 pacers went through the 13 mile mark just under 1:50 which was a cushion of about 1m 45s for the two miles of uphill that lay ahead.

Yeah this sums it up perfectly, ive paced Dingle and its the same. Unfortunatly no matter how much time you bank because of where the hills are you generally lose the vast majority of your group on the hills anyway. Some races dont suit pacers, maybe this is one of them.