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Rapist - 'demands paternal visitation rights to the child he fathered with victim'

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Comments

  • #202
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    AND for the record, a 20 year old female with a 14 year old lad is just as sickening.


  • #203
    Gauss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Gauss


    Biggins wrote: »
    Gauss wrote: »
    Why are you assuming "as far as you can see" the only thing he cared for was having sex with her?

    I have already explained that above in previous posts.
    How is your eyesight?

    No you haven't, you've been giving politicians explanations, ie avoiding the question.

    Fact of the matter is you don't know if he cared about her or not. You are guessing.


  • #204
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Gauss wrote: »
    No you haven't, you've been giving politicians explanations, ie avoiding the question.

    Fact of the matter is you don't know if he cared about her or not. You are guessing.

    Thats you opinion.
    My opinion is based on the finding of the court.

    We shall agree to differ clearly.


  • #205
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,407 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Biggins wrote: »
    Thats you opinion.
    My opinion is based on the finding of the court.

    We shall agree to differ clearly.

    Your opinion only makes sense to me if the guy was convicted of rape rather than statutory rape? I thought the court convicted him of the latter?


  • #206
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Your opinion only makes sense to me if the guy was convicted of rape rather than statutory rape? I thought the court convicted him of the latter?

    We could debate over wordplay but the conclusion legally is still the same (and it won't really change anything).
    He's on record as a rapist now and sadly another female is an official victim.


  • #207
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,407 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Biggins wrote: »
    We could debate over wordplay but the conclusion legally is still the same (and it won't really change anything).
    He's on record as a rapist now and sadly another female is an official victim.

    Wordplay? Debate? He pleaded guilty to statutory rape, it's there in black and white, but don't let that get in the way of your own hypothetical reasoning.


  • #208
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Wordplay? Debate? He pleaded guilty to statutory rape, it's there in black and white, but don't let that get in the way of your own hypothetical reasoning.

    Well that was decent of him wasn't it!
    So he is still a convicted rapist then. I think we can agree on that.


  • #209
    blatantrereg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭blatantrereg


    They must have had a girl then I guess.


  • #210
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,407 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Biggins wrote: »
    Well that was decent of him wasn't it!
    So he is still a convicted rapist then. I think we can agree on that.

    :D


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  • #211
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    As far as I'm concerned a 14 year old cant consent to sex any more than a 12 or 10 year old can. They are not old enough to make that decision. If it was a sixteen year old and fifteen year old i could see the difficulty in labeling him a rapist but this man was 20. He was a fully grown man who had sex with a child just out of puberty. So what if he didn't physically force her? Date rapists don't use force. Doesn't mean they aren't scum.


  • #212
    Gauss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Gauss


    Biggins wrote: »
    Gauss wrote: »
    No you haven't, you've been giving politicians explanations, ie avoiding the question.

    Fact of the matter is you don't know if he cared about her or not. You are guessing.

    Thats you opinion.
    My opinion is based on the finding of the court.

    We shall agree to differ clearly.

    I haven't given an opinion, there's no way I could possibly know if he cares or cared about her.


  • #213
    Neewbie_noob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Neewbie_noob


    brummytom wrote: »
    Of course he shouldn't

    Why shouldn't he ?? Statutory rape is not rape, sure, having sex with an underage child is abominable crime, but it's not like he forcibly raped her. The age of consent in Spain is 14 afaik.


  • #214
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Gauss wrote: »
    No you haven't, you've been giving politicians explanations, ie avoiding the question.

    Fact of the matter is you don't know if he cared about her or not. You are guessing.

    Yep it's the Mail but:
    The girl said her rapist had threatened her and promised to destroy her life: 'He told me that he could make my life upside down, and I wouldn’t have anybody and he would pin it all on me. So I was scared.'
    The man's legal representative refused to comment on the requests to see his child, but said the initial relationship between the victim and his client was consensual.

    That would suggest it was consensual but he didn't act in a caring way afterwards. That's her view though, must have been scarey for a 14 year old.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #215
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Neewbie_noob wrote: »
    brummytom wrote: »
    Of course he shouldn't



    Why shouldn't he ?? Statutory rape is not rape, sure, having sex with an underage child is abominable crime, but it's not like he forcibly raped her. The age of consent in Spain is 14 afaik.

    So threats intimidation drugging or tricking kids into bed is ok as long as you don't use force?

    God I hope you don't have children.


  • #216
    goat2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    did he know at the time that she was 14, i know alot of young girls who are 14 and look more 18, because of their dress.


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  • #217
    Neewbie_noob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Neewbie_noob


    MagicSean wrote: »
    So threats intimidation drugging or tricking kids into bed is ok as long as you don't use force?

    God I hope you don't have children.

    Apologies, didn't read the whole article.


  • #218
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    MagicSean wrote: »
    So threats intimidation drugging or tricking kids into bed is ok as long as you don't use force?

    God I hope you don't have children.

    Hysterical and exaggerate much? or are you reading a different article? if so can you link?

    goat2 wrote: »
    did he know at the time that she was 14, i know alot of young girls who are 14 and look more 18, because of their dress.

    He was going out with her friends sister, so I presume he had a good idea of her age.


  • #219
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Another part of the world and it would be normal. I don't agree with it personally, but I don't agree with people ruling other peoples lives based on their own beliefs.

    At what age does one gain the ability of deciding for one self?


  • #220
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Kalel Most Topic wrote: »
    Another part of the world and it would be normal. I don't agree with it personally, but I don't agree with people ruling other peoples lives based on their own beliefs.

    At what age does one gain the ability of deciding for one self?

    17


  • #221
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    davet82 wrote: »
    How so? A rapist is a rapist same way a murder is a murder no matter what degree it is, no?

    And helping a terminally ill person in a lot of pain to die is the same as walking out in the street, picking somone at random and stabbing them to death.


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  • #222
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    davet82 wrote: »
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2209258/Familys-outrage-girls-rapist-seeks-paternal-visitation-rights-child.html



    Should he be allowed access to the child?

    Which one? The newborn that's his kid or the child he's already had plenty of "access" to


  • #223
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    And helping a terminally ill person in a lot of pain to die is the same as walking out in the street, picking somone at random and stabbing them to death.

    you are absoultely right, the exact same.

    in both cases they are covicted of murder, they are in the eyes of the law murderers and i can use the description murderer in my title of a thread as do a newspaper if they wish.

    now the fact that the mercy killer will get a suspened sentence and the random attacker will get life shows there are different levels/degrees of a crime but if the crime is murder then its still murder.

    thanks for proving that point ;)


  • #224
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Kalel Most Topic wrote: »
    Another part of the world and it would be normal. I don't agree with it personally, but I don't agree with people ruling other peoples lives based on their own beliefs.

    At what age does one gain the ability of deciding for one self?

    in some parts of the world grown men marry 12 year olds but it dosen't make it right!


  • #225
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    So this chap had sex with a child, knowing she was a child, then used threats to keep her quiet about it. Here's a question - would you want to have to leave him in sole charge of your three year old on a regular basis? Would you want to have to deal with him, once a week, by law, for the next 13 years of your child's life?

    There is a very good chance he doesn't actually want visitation rights, btw. According to the source story, he only filed when he was required to pay child support. This is a known tactic in US states with poor victim protection legislation, all 31 of them that allow rapist visitation or even custody suits.

    It's basically a threat - "If you press this legally, I will make myself a feature of your life for almost two decades. I will threaten your custody security, I will drag you through court, I will make you think and talk about what I did to you over and over again for the benefit of strangers."


  • #226
    LittleBook
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭LittleBook


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    So this chap had sex with a child, knowing she was a child, then used threats to keep her quiet about it. Here's a question - would you want to have to leave him in sole charge of your three year old on a regular basis? Would you want to have to deal with him, once a week, by law, for the next 13 years of your child's life?

    There is a very good chance he doesn't actually want visitation rights, btw. According to the source story, he only filed when he was required to pay child support. This is a known tactic in US states with poor victim protection legislation, all 31 of them that allow rapist visitation or even custody suits.

    It's basically a threat - "If you press this legally, I will make myself a feature of your life for almost two decades. I will threaten your custody security, I will drag you through court, I will make you think and talk about what I did to you over and over again for the benefit of strangers."

    EXACTLY.
    the probation was part of an arrangement in which he had to acknowledge he’s the baby’s father and follow probate and family court rules, according to the station.

    That requires him to pay child support — but also gives him the chance to seek visitation.

    An attorney for the man wouldn’t comment about visitation requests but said the initial relationship between the victim and his client was consensual.

    But an attorney for the victim told the Daily News she filed a motion Aug. 1 asking the Superior Court judge to amend the sentencing conditions: Instead of child support, he would pay "restitution," which would prevent him from gaining access to the child through family court.

    “What was the criminal court judge thinking punishing the man with the privilege of parental rights?” attorney Wendy Murphy asked Wednesday. “That’s way past irony.”

    The problem here (apart from the crime itself) is the punishment. In order to make the rapist "pay", the judge forced him to recognise the child as his own and pay child support ... which, under family law, entitles him to visitation. I'd be surprised if he actually wanted visitation, this seems to be a tactic to stop paying the child support.


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