could I report this as an assult?

ced100

Sorry for the typo in the title, it should be "could I report this as an assault?"

My 7 year old son and I were approached by a man in a public place recently. The man was physically much larger than I and he was extremely agitated & aggressive, he kept shouting insults at me using all sorts of foul language. His face was so close to mine I could feel droplets of his breath hitting my face. At one stage he used his body weight to apply pressure to me and I told him not to touch me. Twice I walked away from him but he followed us on both occasions and even waited for us to come out of a shop. I truly believe that this person was going to cause harm to me and my son. My 7 year old was extremely shaken was very clearly upset by the incident and he is now nervous of going near that location again. My son would have never witnessed such aggression in his life. The incident was witness by other people who asked him to calm down and offered to call the police. I managed to get away from that person while he was distracted by another person offering to call the police.

My question is, can I lodge a complaint with the Garda and could this person get prosecuted for assault? – bearing in mind he did not physically harm me but my son and I believe that he was very close to doing so. I don’t think that any person should be subjected to such abuse , let alone a 7 year old boy.

ResearchWill

ced100 wrote: »

My 7 year old son and I were approached by a man in a public place recently. The man was physically much larger than I and he was extremely agitated & aggressive, he kept shouting insults at me using all sorts of foul language. His face was so close to mine I could feel droplets of his breath hitting my face. At one stage he used his body weight to apply pressure to me and I told him not to touch me. Twice I walked away from him but he followed us on both occasions and even waited for us to come out of a shop. I truly believe that this person was going to cause harm to me and my son. My 7 year old was extremely shaken was very clearly upset by the incident and he is now nervous of going near that location again. My son would have never witnessed such aggression in his life. The incident was witness by other people who asked him to calm down and offered to call the police. I managed to get away from that person while he was distracted by another person offering to call the police.

My question is, can I lodge a complaint with the Garda and could this person get prosecuted for assault? – bearing in mind he did not physically harm me but my son and I believe that he was very close to doing so. I don’t think that any person should be subjected to such abuse , let alone a 7 year old boy.

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

(2) In subsection (1) (a), “force” includes—

(a) application of heat, light, electric current, noise or any other form of energy, and

(b) application of matter in solid liquid or gaseous form.

(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

The legislation covering this situation.

Dan133269

^^^^^^ That is the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997, OP.

Its a clear assault. Sounds like mental health or alcohol issues too.

audidiesel

just to briefly ask...

do you know the names of any of the bystanders?
if so have you their contact details?
would they be prepared to make a statement confirming your story and possibly go to court also?

its section 2 assault which is very minor. if you dont have the above then it would come down to your word versus his.

having said that theres no problem reporting it, but without the above i doubt that anything would come of it being honest.

ced100

audidiesel wrote: »

just to briefly ask...

do you know the names of any of the bystanders?
if so have you their contact details?
would they be prepared to make a statement confirming your story and possibly go to court also?

its section 2 assault which is very minor. if you dont have the above then it would come down to your word versus his.

having said that theres no problem reporting it, but without the above i doubt that anything would come of it being honest.

Would my 7year old's word not count?, he was severely effected., also I'm pretty sure there would be some CCTV footage. The bystanders might be reluctant as ths person appered to be from a certain domestic ethnic group

Peregrinus

ced100 wrote: »

Would my 7year old's word not count?, he was severely effected., also I'm pretty sure there would be some CCTV footage. The bystanders might be reluctant as ths person appered to be from a certain domestic ethnic group

In theory your seven-year old could give evidence at a trial of the perpetrator; in practice his evidence would have very little weight attached to it, and I cannot see the DPP proceeding with a prosecution which relied on the evidence of a seven-year old. You'd also have to think about whether you wanted to put your child through the ordeal of giving evidence in court.

The CCTV footage could certainly help, although of course it will not record any words spoken.

AlarmBelle

ResearchWill wrote: »

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

(2) In subsection (1) (a), “force” includes—

(a) application of heat, light, electric current, noise or any other form of energy, and

(b) application of matter in solid liquid or gaseous form.

(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

The legislation covering this situation.

Excuse me being curious OP
what if the guy did not know because of mental or other issues that it was unacceptable or hs judgement was altered by drink

Peregrinus

AlarmBelle wrote: »

Excuse me being curious OP
what if the guy did not know because of mental or other issues that it was unacceptable or hs judgement was altered by drink

If charged and tried, he can raise those issues in his defence (though "judgment was altered by drink" doesn't really fly as a defence). Unless he is seriously mentally ill, though, to the point of being delusional, issues like that are much more likely to affect the sentence he receives than to secure an acquittal.

ced100

Peregrinus wrote: »

If charged and tried, he can raise those issues in his defence (though "judgment was altered by drink" doesn't really fly as a defence). Unless he is seriously mentally ill, though, to the point of being delusional, issues like that are much more likely to affect the sentence he receives than to secure an acquittal.

I guess, from reading between the lines, any assault charge would be expensive, drawn-out & unlikely to be successful. So it looks like I’ll have to just accept that society is like that and let it drop. I’ll have to explain to my young son that the system won’t always punish the bad guys and life is not fair. Shame he has to learn that at 7 years of age.

ResearchWill

ced100 wrote: »

I guess, from reading between the lines, any assault charge would be expensive, drawn-out & unlikely to be successful. So it looks like I’ll have to just accept that society is like that and let it drop. I’ll have to explain to my young son that the system won’t always punish the bad guys and life is not fair. Shame he has to learn that at 7 years of age.

I have put up the legislation. The matter is for you, as a Summary offence it can be brought by AGS after you make a complaint and statment. If you do not make that complaint then I really dont think you can blame the system. I do not know how you can think the matter would be expensive, as if AGS decided to take a case there is no cost to you, while the state will have to pay the associated costs of the case more than likely including defence, that is what the criminal justice system is there for.

There is also the possibility if the matter is very important to you, then as the matter is classed as a minor one you can bring a private criminal prosecution as a common informer.

But I think its unfair at this stage to blame the system, when the system has said clearly that the actions of that man are in breach of section 2 of the Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997. The System also allows you to bring a criminal charge.


The defences open to the acused are up to him and I nor anyone else can say with any certainity that any defence would or would not work.

dukedalton

ced100 wrote: »

I guess, from reading between the lines, any assault charge would be expensive, drawn-out & unlikely to be successful. So it looks like I’ll have to just accept that society is like that and let it drop. I’ll have to explain to my young son that the system won’t always punish the bad guys and life is not fair. Shame he has to learn that at 7 years of age.

I don't expect you to go into specific details, but was there any provocation whatsoever for this man doing this? Were you in some sort of conflict or disagreement with him? Had you ever seen him before? Or did he just walk up to you out of the blue and threaten you?

Peregrinus

ced100 wrote: »

I guess, from reading between the lines, any assault charge would be expensive, drawn-out & unlikely to be successful. So it looks like I’ll have to just accept that society is like that and let it drop. I’ll have to explain to my young son that the system won’t always punish the bad guys and life is not fair. Shame he has to learn that at 7 years of age.

The bloke can probably be convicted on your evidence alone, but the evidence of bystanders would certainly help. The evidence of your son, not so much.

But I suspect the real hurdle is identifying the guy. You don't suggest he was anyone you knew and, if he can't be identified, he can't be charged.

If you can identify him though, or if you think the guards could identify him, by all means make a complaint. If you choose not to make a complaint, don't teach your son that it was "the system" that let him down. (Unless you're also going to teach him that you're part of the system.)

ResearchWill

Peregrinus wrote: »

In theory your seven-year old could give evidence at a trial of the perpetrator; in practice his evidence would have very little weight attached to it, and I cannot see the DPP proceeding with a prosecution which relied on the evidence of a seven-year old. You'd also have to think about whether you wanted to put your child through the ordeal of giving evidence in court.

The CCTV footage could certainly help, although of course it will not record any words spoken.

While a seven year olds evidence may in certain circumstances be prolomatic, in this case where an Adult is also giving the same evidence it would in my opinion carry weight.

ced100

dukedalton wrote: »

I don't expect you to go into specific details, but was there any provocation whatsoever for this man doing this? Were you in some sort of conflict or disagreement with him? Had you ever seen him before? Or did he just walk up to you out of the blue and threaten you?

None whatsoever, he just saw me and started his tirade. Shocking stuff really. I never met or saw that guy before.
I did see pictures of him afterwards in the paper for various things, notably a conviction for assault where he served prison time. Hence the reason I fell that witnesses would not go anywhere near a court, hard to blame them really.

ResearchWill

ced100 wrote: »

None whatsoever, he just saw me and started his tirade. Shocking stuff really. I never met or saw that guy before.
I did see pictures of him afterwards in the paper for various things, notably a conviction for assault where he served prison time. Hence the reason I fell that witnesses would not go anywhere near a court, hard to blame them really.

With previous for section 2, 3 or 4 he may well do prison time for a section 2. Its up to you OP to make the complaint, if this guy has previous I would bet AGS would gladly take a case.

ced100

ResearchWill wrote: »

With previous for section 2, 3 or 4 he may well do prison time for a section 2. Its up to you OP to make the complaint, if this guy has previous I would bet AGS would gladly take a case.

Thanks guys, you have been very informative. The whole legal thing, from an ordinary joe-soap perspective, is daunting.
Then there is the highly probably chance that if I do report to AGS I will be on the receiving end of reprisals from the accused & his acquaintances, which my family could do without. Lots for me to digest.

dukedalton

ced100 wrote: »

None whatsoever, he just saw me and started his tirade. Shocking stuff really. I never met or saw that guy before.
I did see pictures of him afterwards in the paper for various things, notably a conviction for assault where he served prison time. Hence the reason I fell that witnesses would not go anywhere near a court, hard to blame them really.

Well If I was you I would go to the Guards and report it. If this lunatic did this to you, chances are he has other victims out there. If they have also reported him, perhaps the boys in blue can join the dots and nail him.

Of course, it might not result in anything, but at least you'll have tried, and hopefully it will give you some sort of closure. If you don't report it, you'll just be thinking about it, getting more and more angry.

I've had personal experience of unprovoked attacks such as this. It makes my blood boil to think there are individuals who can terrorise innocent people for no reason other than to cover their own deficincies.

I wish we lived in a world where we thought more about victim's rights than of criminal's rights.