Walking home alone at night

walshb

eviltwin wrote: »

What stuck me about your posts was the implication that we all should have someone walk with us and that if something happens, we need to accept some of the responsibility for taking risks.

Maybe its not how you meant it but that's the impression I got from it.

I know I may have been a bit strong with my opinion. It just irks me when I do see a young girl or woman alone at night walking thru a quiet area. I so feel like offering a lift to them. I did stress that ina built up and busy street I am fairly okay there. It's off the beaten trcak that irks me. I see it all the time in mky own area, young teens (13-14-15) walking alone at night in quiet and dark areas. I mean, WTF, do they even have parents?

walshb

LenaClaire wrote: »

Okay, so generally when a woman is assaulted by a stranger, that stranger is a man. Therefore, men who walk alone at night are a risk to women and are behaving in a dangerous manner.

Also, generally women are assaulted by men they know rather than strangers, therefore women should not associate with men or they are increasing their risk of assault.

Not sure why you are trying to confuse yourself here. It's pretty easy to follow. This is a thread set up about women walking home alone at night.

If you look back thru my posts you will see that I said clearly that most times an attack does not occur, a woman makes it home safe. I simply said that a woman alone walking home is taking a risk from attack, and a sexual attack is always a real danger.

Ickle Magoo

walshb wrote: »

Not sure why you are trying to confuse yourself here. It's pretty easy to follow. This is a thread set up about women walking home alone at night.

Which would beg the question why you're trying to crow-bar in 13/14/15 yr olds and the standard of their parenting...

walshb

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Which would beg the question why you're trying to crow-bar in 13/14/15 yr olds and the standard of their parenting...

Aplogies for the slight deviation. Ok, 18-19-20 year olds. Same issue. Still the same risk.

LenaClaire

walshb wrote: »

Not sure why you are trying to confuse yourself here. It's pretty easy to follow. This is a thread set up about women walking home alone at night.

If you look back thru my posts you will see that I said clearly that most times an attack does not occur, a woman makes it home safe. I simply said that a woman alone walking home is taking a risk from attack, and a sexual attack is always a real danger.

Well, you have stated that you think women are incapable of taking care of themselves and need a man to protect them. I am just pointing out that if men kept their hands to themselves there would not be a problem.

You imply that a woman walking by herself is taking a wholly unnecessary risk, when for most women there is no other option but to sometimes walk alone at night. How about you go lecture to men about not attacking people and then the women of the world won't need you to worry your head about our wee, little defenseless selves.

eviltwin

walshb wrote: »

I know I may have been a bit strong with my opinion. It just irks me when I do see a young girl or woman alone at night walking thru a quiet area. I so feel like offering a lift to them. I did stress that ina built up and busy street I am fairly okay there. It's off the beaten trcak that irks me. I see it all the time in mky own area, young teens (13-14-15) walking alone at night in quiet and dark areas. I mean, WTF, do they even have parents?

Its clear you're well intentioned but you should be directing your anger at the people who commit these crimes and the justice system that never takes them seriously.

The one thing I would hate to see is something like what happened in the UK around the time of the Yorkshire Ripper attacks where the police's advice to women was to stay indoors at night thus creating an unofficial curfew. It was of course totally unworkable because women have to go out to work, college, they have hobbies etc.

Everyone should take precautions but you can't stop living out of the fear of what might happen.

walshb

eviltwin wrote: »

Its clear you're well intentioned but you should be directing your anger at the people who commit these crimes and the justice system that never takes them seriously.
.

Anger? I am not angry. And, again, in a perfect world these aninals would be removed from society. Until they are then women will always be at risk from these men when out and about and alone. It really is that simple.

No point in me telling my daughter or wife that they should feel completely free and entitled to walk home alone at night because it's the animals that are the problem, not you. Fact is that in today's society the jutsice system and police force can do so much, but they cannot guarantee our safety. For that reason we have a duty of care to ourselves.

walshb

eviltwin wrote: »

Everyone should take precautions but you can't stop living out of the fear of what might happen.

Perfect. Take precautions. I said this several times.

eviltwin

walshb wrote: »

Perfect. Take precautions. I said this several times.

Exactly, and once you take those precautions you should be able to go out and do what you need to do in company or alone. I think if you start acting like a victim you feel like a victim and that's not how I am prepared to live.

littlebug

gosh WalshB i couldn't live with that level of suspicion and mistrust. I like to believe that most people are inherently good and this is what I want to raise my children to believe. If I cowered in the house afraid to open the door what kind of message would that give to them?
There are bad apples of course but they're the minority and I'll teach my children to keep their wits about them and to be good at reading people/ signals and situations.

I couldn't live my life on a day to day basis considering every man I don't know as a potential sexual deviant and I don't want my daughter to think that of all men either. Nor do I want my son to think that's how people that don't know him would view him

Oh and any minor sexual misdemeanours conducted against me in my youth were by people I knew/ family friends not strangers on the street.

walshb

eviltwin wrote: »

Exactly, and once you take those precautions you should be able to go out and do what you need to do in company or alone. I think if you start acting like a victim you feel like a victim and that's not how I am prepared to live.

So, what are these precautions a woman should take when walking home alone at night?

walshb

littlebug wrote: »

gosh WalshB i couldn't live with that level of suspicion and mistrust. I like to believe that most people are inherently good and this is what I want to raise my children to believe. If I cowered in the house afraid to open the door what kind of message would that give to them?
There are bad apples of course but they're the minority and I'll teach my children to keep their wits about them and to be good at reading people/ signals and situations.

I couldn't live my life on a day to day basis considering every man I don't know as a potential sexual deviant and I don't want my daughter to think that of all men either. Nor do I want my son to think that's how people that don't know him would view him

Oh and any minor sexual misdemeanours conducted against me in my youth were by people I knew/ family friends not strangers on the street.

C'mon, you are overexaggerating my point completely. Afraid to open the door? Cowering? Sexual deviant? All I said was that out and about at night the choice to walk home alone at night os one I would strongly discourage.

99 percent of the time all these things a woman does ends up grand and no issue. I know this. Doesn't mean they should drop their guard and live completely free and discount the real dangers out there.

eviltwin

walshb wrote: »

So, what are these precautions a woman should take when walking home alone at night?

I think they have been mentioned, flat shoes, fully charged phone, no hanging around, walk with purpose, no earphones and just be generally aware of your surroundings. What more can you do?

walshb

eviltwin wrote: »

I think they have been mentioned, flat shoes, fully charged phone, no hanging around, walk with purpose, no earphones and just be generally aware of your surroundings. What more can you do?

That's great. It's still leaves a woman open for a sexual assault. The average woman is of no real match against the average man if that man wants to hurt her. Charged phone? What real use is that if a man punces on a woman? Flat shoes? What use are they if a man pounces on a woman. Being aware of your surroundings? Again, what use is that if a man punces on a woman?

Take the case on Griffith Avenue recently. I am not privvy to all the details, but maybe that woman walked that route many times on her own at night. Unfortunately she didn't make it the last time because of some man. It is far from an isolated case.

eviltwin

walshb wrote: »

That's great. It's still leaves a woman open for a sexual assault. The average woman is of no real match against the average man if that man wants to hurt her. Charged phone? What real use is that if a man punces on a woman? Flat shoes? What use are they if a man pounces on a woman. Being aware of your surroundings? Again, what use is that if a man punces on a woman?

Take the case on Griffith Avenue recently. I am not privvy to all the details, but maybe that woman walked that route many times on her own at night. Unfortunately she didn't make it the last time because of some man. It is far from an isolated case.

So what do you suggest then? How does a woman get from A to B at night?

littlebug

walshb wrote: »

C'mon, you are overexaggerating my point completely. Afraid to open the door? Cowering? Sexual deviant? All I said was that out and about at night the choice to walk home alone at night os one I would strongly discourage.

99 percent of the time all these things a woman does ends up grand and no issue. I know this. Doesn't mean they should drop their guard and live completely free and discount the real dangers out there.

ok maybe the word cowering was overly dramatic but to me not opening the door to strangers because you mightn't be able to fight them off implies fear does it not? I don't know if it's a stranger at the door or not until i open it anyway

You used the term sexual deviant

I agree that people should keep their wits about them but I don't think that means we should always be afraid either.

walshb

eviltwin wrote: »

So what do you suggest then? How does a woman get from A to B at night?

That's something she needs to think when she plans her night out.

My suggestion in order of what I would consider safest:

Pick up by friend or known person; bus from beside the pub/club and then pick up at the stop, taxi; or if in a group living together then a walk home presents less risk.

The basic theme is that walking home alone should be the absolute last resort, not something that is acceptable, or something to save a few quid for etc etc.

Anyway, we are all here together debating for the greater good and safety of women, no? I am simply offering suggestions and advice.

Morag

Then why are there not campaigns to tell men to respect women?
Why are there not more 'don't be that guy' posters?
Why is the message always, women protect yourselves, and not men don't attack women?

Personally if I was attacked I would give as good as I could back, I would want injuries to prove I had been attacked and did not give consent. It is easier to get someone charged and prosecuted with GBH then it with rape.

You assumptions are based of the myth of the average man and the average women,
I would knows several men who would not be as strong as me and several women who are black belts in a range of martial arts and well able to look after themselves.

All you seem to be doing in this thread is trying to paint women as victims and make us scared.

Yes I do go for walks late at night, I've been known to do so around the area that I live at daft hours due to insomnia, if I want to leave the house at 1am to 3am and for for a walk for an hour or so I will. I take the same precautions as any person be they a man or a woman should. I won't let fear rule my life and what I do due to having a vagina.

eviltwin

walshb wrote: »

That's something she needs to think when she plans her night out.

My suggestion in order of what I would consider safest:

Pick up by friend or known person; bus from beside the pub/club and then pick up at the stop, taxi; or if in a group living together then a walk home presents less risk.

The basic theme is that walking home alone should be the absolute last resort, not something that is acceptable, or something to save a few quid for etc etc.

Anyway, we are all here together debating for the greater good and safety of women, no? I am simply offering suggestions and advice.

But that is not always an option.

walshb

littlebug wrote: »

You used the term sexual deviant
.

Yes, because they do exist. I never ever said or implied that all men are sexual deviants. But, women can never ever know when out alone at night and walking home what man is and is not a threat. For that reason they need to take the necessary precautions.

eviltwin

walshb wrote: »

Yes, because they do exist. I never ever said or implied that all men are sexual deviants. But, women can never ever know when out alone at night and walking home what man is and is not a threat. For that reason they need to take the necessary precautions.

You could be chatted up by a sexual deviant in the pub, your partner could be friends with one and bring him into your home, you could work with one, live next door to one.

walshb

Sharrow wrote: »

All you seem to be doing in this thread is trying to paint women as victims and make us scared.

Yes I do go for walks late at night, I've been known to do so around the area that I live at daft hours due to insomnia, if I want to leave the house at 1am to 3am and for for a walk for an hour or so I will. I take the same precautions as any person be they a man or a woman should. I won't let fear rule my life and what I do due to having a vagina.

Not at all painting anyone as a victim. As for your late night walks, best of luck to you.

walshb

eviltwin wrote: »

You could be chatted up by a sexual deviant in the pub, your partner could be friends with one and bring him into your home, you could work with one, live next door to one.

Yes, I know. What is your point?

walshb

Sharrow wrote: »

You assumptions are based of the myth of the average man and the average women,
I would knows several men who would not be as strong as me and several women who are black belts in a range of martial arts and well able to look after themselves.
.

It is not a myth that the average man can and has overpowered the average woman. Holy god! It's part of nature. It's what separates man from woman. Physical power.

Black belts, blue belts this that and the other; a woman is generally no match for a man who wants to cause her harm. If we cannot agree on that then ket's forget the whole debate.

Morag

walshb wrote: »

Yes, because they do exist. I never ever said or implied that all men are sexual deviants. But, women can never ever know when out alone at night and walking home what man is and is not a threat. For that reason they need to take the necessary precautions.

Sexual deviant? seriously?

You can't class a man who sexually assaults women or rapes women the same as a person who likes being tied up or spanked or dominance and submission.

One is a person who has no respect for women and does not care about their consent.

The other indulges in sexual behaviors were consent and respect are tantamount.

eviltwin

walshb wrote: »

Yes, I know. What is your point?

My point is these guys don't have an On switch they turn off in normal company, they don't just target women out walking alone. So you can take all the precautions in the world but you can still be at risk of being hurt and the stats speak for themselves - most women will be attacked by a man they know.

We don't expect women to avoid contact with men in normal social situations even though its then they are more at risk so why try and get women to stay home at night?

I think you are over stating the risk tbh.

Morag

walshb wrote: »

It is not a myth that the average man can and has overpowered the average woman. Holy god! It's part of nature. It's what separates man from woman. Physical power.

Black belts, blue belts this that and the other; a woman is generally no match for a man who wants to cause her harm. If we cannot agree on that then ket's forget the whole debate.

I see you agree with me, your premise is flawed.

walshb

Sharrow wrote: »

Sexual deviant? seriously?

You can't class a man who sexually assaults women or rapes women the same as a person who likes being tied up or spanked or dominance and submission.

One is a person who has no respect for women and does not care about their consent.

The other indulges in sexual behaviors were consent and respect are tantamount.

What is the point?

I am not sure what you are responding to.

Where oh where did I compare a man who rapes and sexually assaults a woman to spanking and bondage etc?

This thread is going crazy.

Morag

A little piece on rape

A lot has been said about how to prevent rape...
Women should learn self-defense. Women should lock themselves in their houses after dark. Women shouldn't have long hair and women shouldn't wear short skirts. Women shouldn't leave drinks unattended. ****, they shouldn't dare to get drunk at all.

Instead of that bull
****, how about:

If a woman is drunk, don't rape her.
If a woman is walking alone at night, don't rape her.
If a women is drugged and unconscious, don't rape her.
If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don't rape her.
If a woman is jogging in a park at 5 am, don't rape her.
If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you're still hung up on, don't rape her.
If a woman is asleep in her bed, don't rape her.
If a woman is asleep in your bed, don't rape her.
If a woman is doing her laundry, don't rape her.
If a woman is in a coma, don't rape her.
If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don't rape her.
If a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don't rape her.

If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don't rape her.
If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don't rape her.
If your step-daughter is watching tv, don't rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don't rape her.
If your friend thinks it's okay to rape someone, tell him it's not, and that he's not your friend.

If your "friend" tells you he raped someone, report him to the police.
If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there's an unconscious woman upstairs and It's your turn, don't rape her, call the police and tell the guy he's a rapist.

Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, sons of friends it's not okay to rape someone.

Don't tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape.
Don't imply that she could have avoided it if she'd only done/not done x.
Don't imply that it's in any way her fault.
Don't let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he "got some" with the drunk girl.
Don't perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can, too, help yourself.

walshb

Sharrow wrote: »

I see you agree with me, your premise is flawed.

Premise is not flawed. I stated that the average woman is generally no match for the average man should that man want to physically harm her. Is this not true? He will succeed in harming her how he wants. Of course, some women will be able to defend against it, but I am speaking about general terms.