Bouncers/ Clubs rights

leggo

Melion wrote: »

Im quite happy going to work earning more in a night than a lot of people do in a week.

Working in security for the dayjob, I'll almost always stand up for a bouncer whenever this ****e comes up on boards, but I can tell you that this is absolute bollocks.

The average wage of a bouncer is €15-18 p/h. That's due to anti-social working hours and is typically spread over a 5-hour period from 10.30pm to 3.30pm (or thereabouts). I know this because I've worked as a bouncer before. And I didn't bother renewing my DSL. It wasn't worth the extra money tbh, but that's another discussion for another day.

And, before you start with the usual "Oh yeah but MY club is special," bollocks that I hear constantly from bouncers, my non-dayjob is in events so I'm often put in charge of costings and budgets for different nightclubs and, thus, get access to these figures. Your club isn't special unless its imaginary.

Also, a friend of mine helped me out when I first got my DSL. He worked in some of the biggest nightclubs in the country, during the Celtic Tiger, and his wage was only a couple euros above the average outlined above. Again, that was in the boom. And these are the actual 'special' clubs that pay well.

So, please, don't lie to make yourself sound the big man. Unless you're comparing yourself to a teenager on pocket money from their parents, you don't earn more in a night than most earn in a week. The typical jobseeker's allowance is double what the average wage for a bouncer is per night. It's a reasonably decent paying, **** job, at best. You'll come out with about 24-27k per year if you do it full-time, i.e. not the kind of salary worth bragging about. Soz.

Don't even get me started on the 'sexual benefits' you alluded to later. The reality of this, for most bouncer's, is a blowie off a fat girl this one time that they've expanded on to make it sound like they get their hole every night (with the comeback for anyone who calls them on it being, "Oh you must obviously not get it..." :rolleyes:)

BhoscaCapall

Adyx wrote: »

Most supermarkets that I am aware of will only accept an age card for example.

Which is downright absurd, while we're at it. A passport is seen as one of the most valid forms of ID all over the world except... Dunnes and Aldi? You can board a plane to another country or rent a car using it but you can't buy a few cans of beer :rolleyes:

Don't you need a passport to apply for AgeCard anyway?

djflawless

so your NOT coming to time next weekend???

Rabies

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Would bouncers really refuse entry for that? Surely just confiscating it is enough? Despite the supposed fantastic pay they're on surely they understand how routinely the average punter in Ireland gets ripped off for drinks.

Depends on how they react when its taken from them.
Sometimes its given back and they walk away, or they can pick it up when leaving the venue if they're allowed enter.
If one person has a bottle, then another person in the group probably does too.
No money to be made off them.
I don't disagree with you on the price of alcohol in the pubs. It is too high, but best way for people to bring it down is to not go to the pub/club. Prices will drop on certain nights.

kippy

norrie rugger wrote: »

Ah the typical helpful high horse AH reply.
"It is all the OP's fault". DO people come onto this forum just to have a go at people looking for some advice?

I was kicked out for no reason..... You MUST have done something
I was Clamped in my own spot.... You must have been in the wrong somehow
ad nauseam, ad nauseam

How would this be the OP's fault? He wasn't kicked out of anywhere.......

It's not a typical AH response. It's the response of someone who has looked at the facts as presented by the OP, tried to look at the situation form the other parties POV, which is difficult as they cannot give their side of it, then decided whether to take the story as told as completely true.
The facts as presented in this case by the OP were fairly obvious.
40 18 years olds on a party.
You mean to tell me you were never 18, nay that you couldn't pick a random grouping of 18 year olds in a similiar situation and tell me that none of them would be overly intoxicated, missing ID etc etc

People tend to look for advice here and elsewhere for good reason and when one gives advice to someone it is extremely important to have all of the facts to hand, when the story as presented does not add up, one can only start to realise there are pieces missing or the OP is not telling the whole story.
If you look at posts such as this you'll often find the people who can't give their side of the story are often in the right, the issue is the OP not being aware of the law, rules, social behaviour norms, a certain piece of information.
I think the OP has been given advice of where to go next.

This thread is more typical of the AH response that hammers the other party that cannot give their side of the story. Knee jerk reactions I think they are called.-
The other party is in the complete wrong, you would be totally vindicated in getting legal advice, taking the matter further. The majority of those in the other parties role are "arseholes".

Arawn

Just on what mellion was saying about pay. It all depends on where yer working and for how long. I used to work in a place. 8 till closing with only one other doorman, for 35e an hour then do a food place from 2 till about 4 for 16 an hour on a saturday night. Then work 2 other days from 8 till closing for 18 an hour in another pub.

You can easily earn close to or over sw a night.

Also has anyone ever honestly seen 40 18 year olds in a pub where someone has not done something to get kicked out?#

minidazzler

Arawn wrote: »

Also has anyone ever honestly seen 40 18 year olds in a pub where someone has not done something to get kicked out?#

I'm in Cork where bouncers tend to be a bit easier going IME. If it's a huge group and someone does something stupid the bouncers will usually have a quick word to try to stop them. 18-20 year olds will invariably argue back rather than accept the scolding and staying inside. It's really as simple as STFU and stay off the bouncers radar for a half hour. But saying "I did nothin biy, I was just sittin here" Gets you kicked out fairly handy.

average hero

Working in a busy establishment in Dublin, I know first-hand as a barman how many people are trying to get one over on the bar by thieving the odd bottle of lemonade, a soft drink, challenging how much change you gave them back, generally being rude and ignorant when drunk and could tell you many a story. In the case of where I work, I'm lucky in that aggressive people are usually stopped at the door, and we only have to deal with rude and ignorant customers or babysit people who have had one too many ALONG WITH OUR OWN WORK THAT WE HAVE TO DO.

I have also been in the position of the rude / too drunk / too young customer. Generally I have come to realise that I have been wrong on these occasions.

To the OP, what I would say to you is that unless the bouncer knew you, it was more than likely not personal. They have to make split-second decisions to ensure the safety/comfort of other patrons. They also are trying to safeguard their own jobs in some cases.

I have never known a bouncer to be infallible, or claim to be. They are human, like everyone else and make mistakes.

I would advise that you contact nightclubs in future before going in, break up into 2's or 3's in the line to the door and have a backup venue in the future.

Ace2007

irishgeo wrote: »

The law is the law.

Intoxicating Liquor Act states they must have CCTV if you want to serve alcohol in a niteclub and for the renewal of liqour licence, the law states that the fire officer has to confirm its working.

The data protection act states your entitled to view any footage contained of you on security footage.

i bet they would have no trouble picking you out of it if they wanted too.It not a shabby CCTV system they would have invested in, i bet it could pick you out of a crowd with no problem. How else do they find the drug dealers and people who start fights etc.

ok, so you advise the op to write to the club demanding footage of him.

tell me how the club is going to know what he looks like from the letter?
or will the op be like i was in you club on this date, i was the guy at the table txting all night on my phone? - please show me this footage?
or are you going to advise him to include a picture + proof of his identity?
if this is the case, and the boncers ever see it - they could easily make sure he never gets into another club that the company works for.

the op said that it was his friend that fell - so the cctv is not going to be showing that footage - as it is not him,

also do you think the op will pay the €6 odd if they ask him for it?

In this case, no matter what happens nothing good is going to come of it, so the OP should just leave it be.

Logical Fallacy

moy83 wrote: »

A couple of fellas I know reckon its hard to get more than 50 squids a night but they like the social aspect of it :rolleyes:

Then those dudes are chumps tbh. Monkeys always work for peanuts.

Adyx

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Which is downright absurd, while we're at it. A passport is seen as one of the most valid forms of ID all over the world except... Dunnes and Aldi? You can board a plane to another country or rent a car using it but you can't buy a few cans of beer :rolleyes:

Don't you need a passport to apply for AgeCard anyway?

I've never had an age card so I don't know. I think the 2010 amendment to the Intoxicating Liquor Act has the details of what is required.

As for Dunnes etc, I would assume that they only accept the age card because it is specifically mentioned in the act. Also it seems to be generally accepted that a passport and drivers licence are proof of identity whereas the age card is proof of age. I know they both have your age on them but it's not what their purpose is, unlike the age card. In any case apart from supermarkets it's not that common to insist on age cards only is it? I don't think I've ever refused someone just because they had a drivers licence or passport instead of an age card as long as I'm satisfied as to their age.

Ace2007

just to add regarding passports, i know when i was 18 alot of friends passports pics where of then when they were 10/11 - so it is fair enough for a bouncer to ask for another form, only people over 18 have a national age card.

Omackeral

minidazzler wrote: »

I'm in Cork where bouncers tend to be a bit easier going IME. If it's a huge group and someone does something stupid the bouncers will usually have a quick word to try to stop them. 18-20 year olds will invariably argue back rather than accept the scolding and staying inside. It's really as simple as STFU and stay off the bouncers radar for a half hour. But saying "I did nothin biy, I was just sittin here" Gets you kicked out fairly handy.

From my experience Corkonian bouncers seem to be a massive pain in the hole to be honest. One such example was the minute they checked my ID (drivers license with address) they had their minds made up. My mate had one bottle of beer on the way down and I had none, as I was driving. We were down visiting two female friends for the evening. Anyway, he started on saying ''You've had a few on you lads, havent you?''. Now to me, this is a lose-lose question! He start harping on saying he couldn't take a chance on us. A chance?!?! WTF. He had no issue letting the two girls in, I should add.

Then he said he didnt know our faces but knew the girls. At this point I explained to him that we were visiting friends for the evening and that we were just out for a few beers and a catch up with our friends. He said 'try again tomorrow night' at which point I reiterated we were only down for one night. Again, he started on with his 'cant take a chance' craic, as if he were doing us a courtesy. In the end we just walked on and went to another place. Even that was annoying as they were himming and haw-ing about letting us in. I eventually produced my Prison Officer ID in an effort to bypass the absolute bull**** and they let myself and my friend in free of charge. Talk about double standards.

We've honestly never had a lick of trouble in Dublin (or anywhere else) gaining entry to any premises. My mates and I are all middle of the road lads in our mid 20's, not scumbags and not snobs! I really think the boys on the doors down there that night had chips on their shoulders.

hatrickpatrick

--LOS-- wrote: »

Welcome to the wonderful world of clubbing OP. This is just typical of club bouncers and my advice is just behave reasonably well, enjoy your night and stay out of their way, if you get thrown out, just go home or go elsewhere, you will cause yourself a lot less hassle. There is no point ever trying to argue with them, you are just asking for trouble and are likely to get yourself injured.

I'm living proof otherwise, see my post earlier in the thread about what happened when a bouncer screwed me over and I complained to the management

And don't go out clubbing in a group of 40! This is all new to you but you will just have to accept that bouncers are assholes and if you are unlucky enough to get thrown out or w/e, just accept it and move along, there is no point investing any more in it.

Why shouldn't people be able to go out in a group? If it's a going away or birthday party or something?
Discriminating based on such utterly ridiculous factors is not on and shouldn't be allowed.

minidazzler

Omackeral wrote: »

From my experience Corkonian bouncers seem to be a massive pain in the hole to be honest. One such example was the minute they checked my ID (drivers license with address) they had their minds made up. My mate had one bottle of beer on the way down and I had none, as I was driving. We were down visiting two female friends for the evening. Anyway, he started on saying ''You've had a few on you lads, havent you?''. Now to me, this is a lose-lose question! He start harping on saying he couldn't take a chance on us. A chance?!?! WTF. He had no issue letting the two girls in, I should add.

Then he said he didnt know our faces but knew the girls. At this point I explained to him that we were visiting friends for the evening and that we were just out for a few beers and a catch up with our friends. He said 'try again tomorrow night' at which point I reiterated we were only down for one night. Again, he started on with his 'cant take a chance' craic, as if he were doing us a courtesy. In the end we just walked on and went to another place. Even that was annoying as they were himming and haw-ing about letting us in. I eventually produced my Prison Officer ID in an effort to bypass the absolute bull**** and they let myself and my friend in free of charge. Talk about double standards.

We've honestly never had a lick of trouble in Dublin (or anywhere else) gaining entry to any premises. My mates and I are all middle of the road lads in our mid 20's, not scumbags and not snobs! I really think the boys on the doors down there that night had chips on their shoulders.

Some do act the prick and even when they change their mind about you, won't change their answer because they don't wanna admit to being wrong.

I'll never understand the "I don't recognise you" thing, So what, are we supposed to be refused a bunch of times until they know us?

I never argue if someone in my group gets turned away, if I'm going out I'm spending a minimum of 70, and so would my friends, so if there is a group of 6 that's a decent amount of money they are losing out on. There is always another pub.

That said, some places still live with the whole "It's not who's in there, it's who's turned away that makes you good."

May I ask what place refused you and said come back tomorrow night? (It won't count as liable unless you accuse them of something untoward.)

I wouldn't agree that it's a double standard letting you in on your PO ID, a lot of cops get the same treatment, and in fact, expect it. There seems to be a general assumption that a cop or PO won't kick off. But then again, the majority of people won't. Though, you are a good witness if something bad happens, so I would guess that's why they let ye in free.

Omackeral

@minidazzler.

I'll go you one better and PM you a 'fan page' on Facebook set up in his honour, maybe you'll recognise the guy, seems to be a bit of a local celeb/character. He was fairly calm and kinda pleasant I guess but I really found him to be condescending at the time and I really think he made a mistake.

Having said that, I'm sure I make mistakes in my job too on occasion. It just really spoiled the mood at the time having travelled all the way down to de Real Capital!

YFlyer

Melion wrote: »

Can someone please explain any part of this to me?

Scratch that

B.A._Baracus

I hate bouncers.
Thats all I can add :pac:

minidazzler

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I hate bouncers.
Thats all I can add :pac:

I'm sure that pubs would be far safer places without them

B.A._Baracus

minidazzler wrote: »

I'm sure that pubs would be far safer places without them

To be serious
Of course bars need bouncers and its not like every bouncer is a dickhead. Its just peope. Alot of people like to abuse power. Even the smallest bit of power.

Someone said it best to me once... he used to do bouncing himself too - "When they put on that coat most become fu*king assholes. but talk to the same person outside the job. could be a sound bloke. But its not just bouncers. Sure a bloke working in a supermarket could be sound. he gets promoted, the prick comes out in him" - I agree with him.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Melion wrote: »

Im quite happy going to work earning more in a night than a lot of people do in a week.

No you don't. Even during the boom times we didn't so stop spoofing.

I'm on the door's twenty odd years now so don't bother to contradict me.

Apart from drunk/stoned idiots at the door there is nothing worse than standing in/on a door with a lad on a power trip telling spoofs about his earnings, the fights he's been in and the chic's he's rode.

OP, sorry I just glanced through your post but if you arrived at any venue I worked in a bus full of 40 plus 18 yr old lads I wouldn't let you in either.

Best thing anyone can do when you're refused from a door, walk on ~ there's a bar somewhere willing to take your money.. Annoying as it is, there are a lot of pricks standing on doors, don't wind yourself up over them.

BUt regardless of that, a group of teen lads will always have difficulty getting in somewhere no matter how good the doorstaff are.

arybvtcw0eolkf

moy83 wrote: »

A couple of fellas I know reckon its hard to get more than 50 squids a night but they like the social aspect of it :rolleyes:

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Then those dudes are chumps tbh. Monkeys always work for peanuts.

Not always.. Some country clubs don't open their doors until pub closing times and close at 02:30am, fifty quid is reasonably for working those hours.

bmcc10

Marley Obnoxious Goalkeeper wrote: »

No you don't. Even during the boom times we didn't so stop spoofing.

I'm on the door's twenty odd years now so don't bother to contradict me.

Apart from drunk/stoned idiots at the door there is nothing worse than standing in/on a door with a lad on a power trip telling spoofs about his earnings, the fights he's been in and the chic's he's rode.

OP, sorry I just glanced through your post but if you arrived at any venue I worked in a bus full of 40 plus 18 yr old lads I wouldn't let you in either.

Best thing anyone can do when you're refused from a door, walk on ~ there's a bar somewhere willing to take your money.. Annoying as it is, there are a lot of pricks standing on doors, don't wind yourself up over them.

BUt regardless of that, a group of teen lads will always have difficulty getting in somewhere no matter how good the doorstaff are.

Just been curious as i have not read thread but what reason would you give for refusing entry?

Rabies

bmcc10 wrote: »

Just been curious as i have not read thread but what reason would you give for refusing entry?

The possibility of trouble happening.
Large groups are never good. Especially at that age.

Galwayguy35

My nightclub going days are long over but back when I was in my early 20's I used to go a lot to them.

I never caused any trouble, but one night I was nutted by some guy in an unprovoked attack, he ran off, a bouncer came along and acting the big man threw me out for "causing trouble".

My nose was broken but unfortunately this was long before the days of CCTV.

Never had much time for any of those guys after that.

scudzilla

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

My nightclub going days are long over but back when I was in my early 20's I used to go a lot to them.

I never caused any trouble, but one night I was nutted by some guy in an unprovoked attack, he ran off, a bouncer came along and acting the big man threw me out for "causing trouble".

My nose was broken but unfortunately this was long before the days of CCTV.

Never had much time for any of those guys after that.

He was correct to ask you to leave (throw you out), your assailant had run off into the club somewhere, what if you'd been allowed to stay in, had run into the guy 20mins later and it all kicked off again??

Look at it from the doorman's point of view, and anyways, wit a busted nose and probably bleeding everywhere do you really think they'd want you staying in?

scudzilla

bmcc10 wrote: »

Just been curious as i have not read thread but what reason would you give for refusing entry?

Large groups are a nightmare to deal with, always acting the bollox and showing off, then one of them says the wrong thing to someone outside the group, huge ruck ensues and every fcuker gets involved, it just ain't worth it.

Moral of the story, sure most know this, if you're in a group of 8+ then split up into 2's and 3's to go in the door

ruthloss

Ever been to an A&E on a Saturday night late? my sympathies are with the Bouncers and anyone who has to suffer drunks anywhere.

arybvtcw0eolkf

irishgeo wrote: »

On the bouncers hiding the security ID , they broke the law, judging by the wording of the act.

Its impossible to read some of the acts of law we write.




The bit in italics has me confused does it mean anyone can demand to see the ID of the bouncer?

Private Security Services Act 2004 , Section 29 states the following.

Identity cards.

29.—(1) The Authority shall issue an identity card to each individual who is a licensee.

(2) Each such individual—

(a) shall have the identity card in his or her possession when providing the security service authorised by the licence, and

(b) shall, on request, produce it there and then for inspection by any person for whom the licensee is providing a security service under the licence and permit such a person to inspect it.

The bouncer is only obliged to have the ID card on/in his or her possession. They are NOT obligied to display it, although a lot of clubs do this.

You're only obliged to show the card (on request)to an inspector from the Private Security Authority or a member of AGS.

I don't wear my ID, I prefer to keep it in my wallet.. tbh they get lost in fights and are a nuisence to replace.

Sorry about the spellings, I'm hung over and can't be arsed spell checking

Galwayguy35

scudzilla wrote: »

He was correct to ask you to leave (throw you out), your assailant had run off into the club somewhere, what if you'd been allowed to stay in, had run into the guy 20mins later and it all kicked off again??

Look at it from the doorman's point of view, and anyways, wit a busted nose and probably bleeding everywhere do you really think they'd want you staying in?

No he didn't ask me to leave, I tried to explain that I had been assaulted but he didn't want to know and manhandled me to the door.

Maybe rules are applied more fairly these days.

FrogMarch

OP - you have the right to remain silent.